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GLBRendering on AMD/Non-NVIDIA Laptops: Is Quality Iray Rendering Possible?
141
Hi everyone,
I've been struggling with rendering quality and speed in DAZ Studio and wanted to get some advice.
My laptop is an HP 255 15.6 inch G9 Notebook, AMD Ryzen 5 5625U with integrated Radeon Graphics (no NVIDIA GPU). I've noticed that every tutorial or YouTube video I've watched shows people getting fast, clean renders by lowering max samples, max time, noise filtering or using ghost lights but when I try the same settings, my renders still come out noisy, slow, or low quality.
From what I understand, DAZ Studio's Iray renderer is optimized for NVIDIA GPUs (CUDA cores), which my laptop doesn't have. That means I'm stuck with CPU-only rendering.
My questions are:
1. Is it basically impossible to get high-quality Iray renders on a non-NVIDIA laptop?
2. Are there any settings, tricks, or workflows that can improve CPU rendering quality/speed?
3. Should I switch to Filament or another render engine for big scenes?
4. For those who have worked on AMD systems, how did you manage quality renders without NVIDIA hardware?
Any tips or confirmation would help me understand whether I should keep pushing my current setup or save for a machine with an RTX GPU.
Thanks!
I've been struggling with rendering quality and speed in DAZ Studio and wanted to get some advice.
My laptop is an HP 255 15.6 inch G9 Notebook, AMD Ryzen 5 5625U with integrated Radeon Graphics (no NVIDIA GPU). I've noticed that every tutorial or YouTube video I've watched shows people getting fast, clean renders by lowering max samples, max time, noise filtering or using ghost lights but when I try the same settings, my renders still come out noisy, slow, or low quality.
From what I understand, DAZ Studio's Iray renderer is optimized for NVIDIA GPUs (CUDA cores), which my laptop doesn't have. That means I'm stuck with CPU-only rendering.
My questions are:
1. Is it basically impossible to get high-quality Iray renders on a non-NVIDIA laptop?
2. Are there any settings, tricks, or workflows that can improve CPU rendering quality/speed?
3. Should I switch to Filament or another render engine for big scenes?
4. For those who have worked on AMD systems, how did you manage quality renders without NVIDIA hardware?
Any tips or confirmation would help me understand whether I should keep pushing my current setup or save for a machine with an RTX GPU.
Thanks!
! REPORT
The GPU you use will have no effect on the actual render quality, it only effects the speed.
I have an AMD GPU and CPU, but it doesn't prevent me from using Iray. Basically, if you don't have have an Nvidia GPU then Iray will use the cores of your CPU, and it doesn't matter what brand your CPU is.
The faster your CPU (and the more cores/threads it has), the better. At the moment I personally have no reason to wait for renders that use a high amount of samples, but I specifically did so with the attached image because I was curious about how well the skin texture held up under a high sample rate. I think it took around 8 minutes to render at quite a large size, and that's on a Ryzen 7 2700 (8 Cores/16 Threads).
The render time is largely effected by size and the amount of samples used, but that's the same with any rendering solution. Depending on your screen resolution, you might need to open this image in another tab and click once or possibly twice to see full size if you're worried about render detail, but no, CPU won't lessen the quality of your renders, it's still the same renderer, it's just using a different method to get there.
I'd say the only thing to be mindful of is 'scenes'. This is just a single figure head-shot, but if it were an indoor scene, was surrounded by a floor, ceiling and walls, then the render time would shoot up quite significantly!
REPLY
! REPORT
Iray is only benefitting from Nvidea GPUs.
If there is no Nvidea GPU, it will only use the CPU to render. AMD GPUs are not supported by IRAY.
If there is no Nvidea GPU, it will only use the CPU to render. AMD GPUs are not supported by IRAY.
REPLY
! REPORT
Quote :1. Is it basically impossible to get high-quality Iray renders on a non-NVIDIA laptop?
No if you wait long enough (hours/days)
your CPU Iray render will eventually look "good".
Quote:3. Should I switch to Filament or another render engine for big scenes?
Filament will not render anything remotely close to Iray quality
Quote:I should keep pushing my current setup or save for a machine with an RTX GPU.
Can't offer advice on that question except to warn you that the latest RTX GPUs are the 5 series and will only render Iray in the new DS 2025 version that is missing 99 percent of then many popular third party plugins and scripts.
No if you wait long enough (hours/days)
your CPU Iray render will eventually look "good".
Quote:3. Should I switch to Filament or another render engine for big scenes?
Filament will not render anything remotely close to Iray quality
Quote:I should keep pushing my current setup or save for a machine with an RTX GPU.
Can't offer advice on that question except to warn you that the latest RTX GPUs are the 5 series and will only render Iray in the new DS 2025 version that is missing 99 percent of then many popular third party plugins and scripts.
REPLY
! REPORT
trytrail
Karma: 255
Wed, Sep 17Thanks for the reply Anabran!
I get it now — so technically I can get good renders on CPU if I just let it cook for hours/days. I guess my patience is the real bottleneck .
Good to know about Filament too. I was considering switching for big scenes, but if it can’t come close to Iray quality, then I’d rather just stick with Iray and accept the longer wait times.
The RTX 5-series / DS 2025 warning is really helpful. I didn’t know about the compatibility issues.
So I guess my next question is:
* Do you think it’s smarter to stick with my Ryzen 5 CPU laptop for now and just optimize scenes/renders as much as possible, or should I still look into building/buying an older RTX desktop (30xx or 40xx) that works fully with DAZ Studio 4.x?
Thanks again for the insight — it’s really useful since I’m still figuring things out with Daz studio, rendering and other stuff.
I get it now — so technically I can get good renders on CPU if I just let it cook for hours/days. I guess my patience is the real bottleneck .
Good to know about Filament too. I was considering switching for big scenes, but if it can’t come close to Iray quality, then I’d rather just stick with Iray and accept the longer wait times.
The RTX 5-series / DS 2025 warning is really helpful. I didn’t know about the compatibility issues.
So I guess my next question is:
* Do you think it’s smarter to stick with my Ryzen 5 CPU laptop for now and just optimize scenes/renders as much as possible, or should I still look into building/buying an older RTX desktop (30xx or 40xx) that works fully with DAZ Studio 4.x?
Thanks again for the insight — it’s really useful since I’m still figuring things out with Daz studio, rendering and other stuff.
You can try with kerkythea which is a free rendering engine
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/13875/kerkythea-rendering-engine
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/13875/kerkythea-rendering-engine
REPLY
! REPORT
trytrail
Karma: 255
Wed, Sep 17Oh I've never heard of it before, will it help me with my render quality and speed problem?
You'll have to excuse the awful bottom lip and ears on this one (I wasn't intending to be rendering her yet) but I was playing around with this character last night so out of curiosity, I decided to time it.
So this one (uncropped as was the previous one) works out at 2080x1560 (which is slightly above Full-HD) and took around 16 minutes to render at around 300 samples. So that's double the time I remember the previous one being, with doubling of the render time obviously being caused by the hair. That said, if you open it in another tab and click it to get full size, you'll see the samples in the corners of the eyes are nowhere near as smooth and clean as they are on the previous render, and in order to get this one to the same level as the previous one, it could easily have taken double that time.
All of that said, I am able to navigate my viewport in Iray mode perfectly fluid, and don't have to wait for it to render. It's actually a very pleasant experience, and of course the benefit of using a CPU over a GPU, is memory. I have 32GB or RAM, and I can assign as much of that RAM to Video RAM as I ike. So even though I have to wait longer for a "final" render, that's fine by me because every non-final render is almost instant anyway, and I have all that RAM to play with!
You don't need a silky smooth final render when working on your characters, so I recommend getting into the habit of working on them in an empty scene, so that everything remains responsive.
Another benefit is that my tower is situated no more than two feet from my ears, yet and unlike those using GPU, my CPU remains completely silent even when I'm navigating the viewport in Iray rendered mode. Just set the Maximum Samples to the smallest you can get away with for casual render visualisation, and your machine should run cool and silent.
Personally I love it that way since it's massively cheaper, massively quieter and exceeds the RAM available to GPU users!
REPLY
! REPORT
trytrail
Karma: 255
Wed, Sep 17Hi COMIXIANT,
Thanks so much for your detailed answers — really appreciate it, and it’s encouraging to know I’m not the only one relying on CPU rendering in DAZ Studio.
I have a few follow-up questions if you don’t mind:
1. Render Settings:
* What settings did you tweak for the two images you shared?
I’m new to DAZ/3D modeling, so maybe I just can’t see the flaws you mentioned — to me both of your renders look amazing (maybe my own renders have always been rough, so anything clean looks perfect ).
2. My Gallery Renders:
I posted two renders in Gallery. One (“Adult was done without much thought — no self added lights, bad posing, and fingers poking through the jacket — but I still like how it came out. The quality is great, and honestly I don’t even know how I made it look that good.
The other one is simpler (no environment). I followed DAZ Studio tutorial videos on YouTube, and it turned out fine too — just noisy/grain hair(?) and the quality is overall less impressive than the “Adultone. Personally I enjoy creating full scenes with surroundings more than close-ups.
* But here’s what confuses me: both renders felt equally slow, I didn't check how fast they were. Why would “no environmentvs “with environmenttake the same amount of time for me?
3. Viewport Performance:
You mentioned Iray Preview is smooth for you, but for me it’s extremely slow — even though I also have 32GB RAM installed.
* Could this be a hardware difference (I have a Ryzen 5 laptop with Radeon graphics, while you use a Ryzen 7 desktop), or is it something in DAZ settings?
4. Noise & Quality:
* How do you remove noise while keeping render quality sharp?
I tried Nominal Luminance = 150 and Noise Degrain Filtering = 1 (suggested by ChatGPT), but that just made everything look blur-ish.
5. Ghost Lights & Big Scenes:
* I’ve heard in YouTube tutorials that ghost lights help speed up renders, but I don’t notice any speed difference. So what is their real purpose?
For example, I’m working on a Resident Evil scene (Leon vs Mr. X in Irons’ Office). When I switch to Iray Preview with Nominal Luminance = 150 + Noise Degrain Filtering = 1, everything looks blur-ish. But with Nominal Luminance = 0, I just get heavy grain/noise (like a cluster of ants) with any lighting I use.
* How do you personally approach render settings for larger indoor scenes like this?
6. Crashes & Freezes:
DAZ goes “Not Respondingalmost every time I use it, and sometimes crashes even if I’m only running DAZ + YouTube.
* Is this normal, or is there something I can adjust to stop the constant freezing?
Sorry for the long post — I just have so many questions because I really want to improve my renders and eventually move toward animations or even games (Ren’Py, RPG Maker, Unity). But right now DAZ feels like a huge obstacle in the way, and I’d really value any advice you can share.
* One last question: Do you think my Ryzen 5 5625U laptop is just too weak compared to your Ryzen 7 desktop, or should I still be able to get similar quality if I simply wait longer?
Thanks again!
Thanks so much for your detailed answers — really appreciate it, and it’s encouraging to know I’m not the only one relying on CPU rendering in DAZ Studio.
I have a few follow-up questions if you don’t mind:
1. Render Settings:
* What settings did you tweak for the two images you shared?
I’m new to DAZ/3D modeling, so maybe I just can’t see the flaws you mentioned — to me both of your renders look amazing (maybe my own renders have always been rough, so anything clean looks perfect ).
2. My Gallery Renders:
I posted two renders in Gallery. One (“Adult was done without much thought — no self added lights, bad posing, and fingers poking through the jacket — but I still like how it came out. The quality is great, and honestly I don’t even know how I made it look that good.
The other one is simpler (no environment). I followed DAZ Studio tutorial videos on YouTube, and it turned out fine too — just noisy/grain hair(?) and the quality is overall less impressive than the “Adultone. Personally I enjoy creating full scenes with surroundings more than close-ups.
* But here’s what confuses me: both renders felt equally slow, I didn't check how fast they were. Why would “no environmentvs “with environmenttake the same amount of time for me?
3. Viewport Performance:
You mentioned Iray Preview is smooth for you, but for me it’s extremely slow — even though I also have 32GB RAM installed.
* Could this be a hardware difference (I have a Ryzen 5 laptop with Radeon graphics, while you use a Ryzen 7 desktop), or is it something in DAZ settings?
4. Noise & Quality:
* How do you remove noise while keeping render quality sharp?
I tried Nominal Luminance = 150 and Noise Degrain Filtering = 1 (suggested by ChatGPT), but that just made everything look blur-ish.
5. Ghost Lights & Big Scenes:
* I’ve heard in YouTube tutorials that ghost lights help speed up renders, but I don’t notice any speed difference. So what is their real purpose?
For example, I’m working on a Resident Evil scene (Leon vs Mr. X in Irons’ Office). When I switch to Iray Preview with Nominal Luminance = 150 + Noise Degrain Filtering = 1, everything looks blur-ish. But with Nominal Luminance = 0, I just get heavy grain/noise (like a cluster of ants) with any lighting I use.
* How do you personally approach render settings for larger indoor scenes like this?
6. Crashes & Freezes:
DAZ goes “Not Respondingalmost every time I use it, and sometimes crashes even if I’m only running DAZ + YouTube.
* Is this normal, or is there something I can adjust to stop the constant freezing?
Sorry for the long post — I just have so many questions because I really want to improve my renders and eventually move toward animations or even games (Ren’Py, RPG Maker, Unity). But right now DAZ feels like a huge obstacle in the way, and I’d really value any advice you can share.
* One last question: Do you think my Ryzen 5 5625U laptop is just too weak compared to your Ryzen 7 desktop, or should I still be able to get similar quality if I simply wait longer?
Thanks again!
Billions of people across the world use AMD CPU for rendering, so you're by no means the odd one out [emote]
Answer 1:
I don't mess around with the render settings, other than general render dimensions, and Highlight Burn. Always ensure Highlight Burn (and any other form of Tone Mapping) is set to default as the start of any new project, and only ever adjust it, as little as you can get away with, to remove any blowout from highlights.
I do this because doing so results is the same sort of thing you get from analogue film stock when exposed for maximum latitude:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_latitude
Answer 2:
It's impossible to answer that one really because there are just so many factors to consider, it would take a book!
Answer 3:
Any crashing going on sounds like it's caused by somehting not related. It's not down to your CPU. But performance-wise, in order to determine performance differences between yours and mine, the best thing I can recommend is to use one of those performance comparison websites, put both CPU models side by side and compare the performance statistics. Important you remember that it is purely the performance of CPU that you need to compare, not any GPU functionality, since any GPU finctionality is not weing used.
Answer 4:
I never remove noise, in fact I do the opposite and have a major fetish for grain! The one shown here is what happens when you let it cook a reasonable amount of time, but still hammer it with a lot of artistic grain. You might wonder why bother letting it cook if you're going to smother it in grain like that, but if viewed at full size you will see that it was necessary to keep the eyes smooth and clear even through the grain.
A major tip is that the eyes are the most important part of your render. If the eyes look dead, then the character doesn't live, simple as that. The anatomy of the characters shown in these test renders are absolutely appalling, but one of the reasons I get away with it is because of the eyes. I was so idle with this mage that I couldn't even be bothered to finish the bottom lip and jawline before doing the test render - I was just too eager to see what it would look like postworked - it's basically my Ballet Girl character tested with a slightly heavier face. It was also a 16:9 composition experiment (because I absolutely hate 16:9). It's an experiment to see if I could use composition to make a 16:9 frame look wider than it actually is (and it worked because it certainly does look wider than a 16:9 frame):
And I can't stress enough that when you look at these renders you absolutely must open them in another tab and then click on the image in that tab to get it full size. The reason for that is that every one of these images are eyeballed and processed at a ratio of one image pixel to one monitor pixel (that's another major tip). So unless viewed at full size, the true aesthetic intent of the postwork cannot be seen.
Answer 5:
I'm going to come across really arrogant here but I don't care. If you want to learn about lighting your scenes with an air of superiority, you need to ignore YouTube and just buy yourself a DSLR, one with full manual control over Focus, Aperture, ISO and Shutter Speed, and learn how each of those features work hand in hand. You can pick-up a second hand DSLR with these features for less than fifty quid these days, and it is by far the best thing you can do, because everything you learn from it in the real world, will translate to Iray exactly as you would expect. This is because Iray, just as with a real camera, respects the proper analogue terms and behaviour such as ISO, Exposure, Focal Distance, F-Stop etc.
You also need to avoid all that "Three-Point Lighting" crap, and instead learn to use available light (and its associated natural light bounce) correctly. Three-Point Lighting is for amateurs, whereas available light photography is strictly for the pros, the masters who know how to utilize it to best effect.
Answer 6:
This sounds as if the machine you're using is a bit underpowered. I've not looked into the spec of your machine but on the one hand it sounds quite beefy if it has 32GB RAM, yet on the other the things you say make me suspect that it has a weak processor. Things you can do to help keep things fluid include only switching things like hair on when you're ready for it. Stuff like ensuring that the amount of ray bounces for transparency etc are kepr sensible and no higher than needed. Stuff like keeping your subdivision level at just one. I'm amazed, for example, at how often people complain about Genesis 9 because of things like nipples, but I have to say I'm still scratching my head over that one. I only ever use the first subdivision level of my viewport, I see no reason to slug my system down by going higher than that.
Anyway, wow, I hope this lot helps and that the tips are taken seriously on how best to progress your lighting and postworking. I can only help with lighting and postworking tips (and I've given you all I'm prepared to give you in that respect), but the tech issues you're having are not something I feel worthy of offering advice about. So go get yourself a secondhand DSLR with the features I specified. Learn that way, that's my suggestion. Because believe me, there are things I do with my postwork that I simply would not be aware of (or would even have been able to figure out) if I had not had experience of real world photography using a real camera that has fully manual control.
In my opinion, it's the most essential thing that anyone into 3D rendering could do to further their skill. It's a skill that translates perfectly to Iray, because as I said, Iray uses the proper photographic camera terms, it's built from the ground up to give you a virtual real-world studio inside your viewport. I use Iray exactly as I would use a real world manually controlled camera, and that's the main reason the renders have an air of realism about them despite the appalling anatomy.
I'm not even specifically trying to make these renders look real (sincerely I'm not), it's just the natural result you get if you follow the correct process of what happens in real-world photography when using a real, fully manually controlled camera.
Answer 1:
I don't mess around with the render settings, other than general render dimensions, and Highlight Burn. Always ensure Highlight Burn (and any other form of Tone Mapping) is set to default as the start of any new project, and only ever adjust it, as little as you can get away with, to remove any blowout from highlights.
I do this because doing so results is the same sort of thing you get from analogue film stock when exposed for maximum latitude:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_latitude
Answer 2:
It's impossible to answer that one really because there are just so many factors to consider, it would take a book!
Answer 3:
Any crashing going on sounds like it's caused by somehting not related. It's not down to your CPU. But performance-wise, in order to determine performance differences between yours and mine, the best thing I can recommend is to use one of those performance comparison websites, put both CPU models side by side and compare the performance statistics. Important you remember that it is purely the performance of CPU that you need to compare, not any GPU functionality, since any GPU finctionality is not weing used.
Answer 4:
I never remove noise, in fact I do the opposite and have a major fetish for grain! The one shown here is what happens when you let it cook a reasonable amount of time, but still hammer it with a lot of artistic grain. You might wonder why bother letting it cook if you're going to smother it in grain like that, but if viewed at full size you will see that it was necessary to keep the eyes smooth and clear even through the grain.
A major tip is that the eyes are the most important part of your render. If the eyes look dead, then the character doesn't live, simple as that. The anatomy of the characters shown in these test renders are absolutely appalling, but one of the reasons I get away with it is because of the eyes. I was so idle with this mage that I couldn't even be bothered to finish the bottom lip and jawline before doing the test render - I was just too eager to see what it would look like postworked - it's basically my Ballet Girl character tested with a slightly heavier face. It was also a 16:9 composition experiment (because I absolutely hate 16:9). It's an experiment to see if I could use composition to make a 16:9 frame look wider than it actually is (and it worked because it certainly does look wider than a 16:9 frame):
And I can't stress enough that when you look at these renders you absolutely must open them in another tab and then click on the image in that tab to get it full size. The reason for that is that every one of these images are eyeballed and processed at a ratio of one image pixel to one monitor pixel (that's another major tip). So unless viewed at full size, the true aesthetic intent of the postwork cannot be seen.
Answer 5:
I'm going to come across really arrogant here but I don't care. If you want to learn about lighting your scenes with an air of superiority, you need to ignore YouTube and just buy yourself a DSLR, one with full manual control over Focus, Aperture, ISO and Shutter Speed, and learn how each of those features work hand in hand. You can pick-up a second hand DSLR with these features for less than fifty quid these days, and it is by far the best thing you can do, because everything you learn from it in the real world, will translate to Iray exactly as you would expect. This is because Iray, just as with a real camera, respects the proper analogue terms and behaviour such as ISO, Exposure, Focal Distance, F-Stop etc.
You also need to avoid all that "Three-Point Lighting" crap, and instead learn to use available light (and its associated natural light bounce) correctly. Three-Point Lighting is for amateurs, whereas available light photography is strictly for the pros, the masters who know how to utilize it to best effect.
Answer 6:
This sounds as if the machine you're using is a bit underpowered. I've not looked into the spec of your machine but on the one hand it sounds quite beefy if it has 32GB RAM, yet on the other the things you say make me suspect that it has a weak processor. Things you can do to help keep things fluid include only switching things like hair on when you're ready for it. Stuff like ensuring that the amount of ray bounces for transparency etc are kepr sensible and no higher than needed. Stuff like keeping your subdivision level at just one. I'm amazed, for example, at how often people complain about Genesis 9 because of things like nipples, but I have to say I'm still scratching my head over that one. I only ever use the first subdivision level of my viewport, I see no reason to slug my system down by going higher than that.
Anyway, wow, I hope this lot helps and that the tips are taken seriously on how best to progress your lighting and postworking. I can only help with lighting and postworking tips (and I've given you all I'm prepared to give you in that respect), but the tech issues you're having are not something I feel worthy of offering advice about. So go get yourself a secondhand DSLR with the features I specified. Learn that way, that's my suggestion. Because believe me, there are things I do with my postwork that I simply would not be aware of (or would even have been able to figure out) if I had not had experience of real world photography using a real camera that has fully manual control.
In my opinion, it's the most essential thing that anyone into 3D rendering could do to further their skill. It's a skill that translates perfectly to Iray, because as I said, Iray uses the proper photographic camera terms, it's built from the ground up to give you a virtual real-world studio inside your viewport. I use Iray exactly as I would use a real world manually controlled camera, and that's the main reason the renders have an air of realism about them despite the appalling anatomy.
I'm not even specifically trying to make these renders look real (sincerely I'm not), it's just the natural result you get if you follow the correct process of what happens in real-world photography when using a real, fully manually controlled camera.
REPLY
! REPORT
trytrail
Karma: 255
Sun, Sep 21Thanks so much, COMIXIANT.
I really appreciate all the detail you’ve shared. Honestly, I’m in awe of how your characters seem to come to life — the skin and especially the eyes look so lifelike in your images.
I tried something different after reading your advice: I didn’t change the render settings and just let it “cook,and the result surprised me — it was incredible compared to what I was getting before(I posted the image if you'd like to view it).
Now I’d love to push further and make my own characters feel alive the way yours do. Do you have any advice for achieving that realism in skin/eyes beyond just letting the render run longer?
Also, I was curious about your black and white renders. Do you do that directly inside DAZ Studio with tone mapping(i tried tweaking with it but darker lighting but nowhere near your images), or do you convert them afterward in another program like Photoshop?
Thanks again for all your help — it’s really motivating.
I really appreciate all the detail you’ve shared. Honestly, I’m in awe of how your characters seem to come to life — the skin and especially the eyes look so lifelike in your images.
I tried something different after reading your advice: I didn’t change the render settings and just let it “cook,and the result surprised me — it was incredible compared to what I was getting before(I posted the image if you'd like to view it).
Now I’d love to push further and make my own characters feel alive the way yours do. Do you have any advice for achieving that realism in skin/eyes beyond just letting the render run longer?
Also, I was curious about your black and white renders. Do you do that directly inside DAZ Studio with tone mapping(i tried tweaking with it but darker lighting but nowhere near your images), or do you convert them afterward in another program like Photoshop?
Thanks again for all your help — it’s really motivating.
COMIXIANT
My main take from your latest render is that it makes me wonder what she's wondering about, and has an interesting composition.
But regards the other stuff, I already have given the best advice that I think I could give you. The most important part is understanding that the renders only look the way that they do, because I'm using Iray in exactly the same way I would use a fully-manual DSLR in real life. I'm making the same decisions, and it's a heck of a lot easier to get a grip of learning this stuff when you have a real DSLR that will render a real life image at the click of a button. Every decision you make, and every photographic parameter you set on that camera, is completely under your command and will effect what you get when you hit the shutter button.
Iray is exactly the same, in fact you can think of Iray as an unrestricted camera simulator. You need to remember that we as 3D artists will always be second to real-world photography and cinematography. You can't get more real than something that is genuinely real and in front of a real camera.. This is a fact and it can never change no matter how good 3D ot AI tech gets to be.
So, that grainy monochrome render you just asked about?
I'll use that exact render to give you an example of why investing in a fully manual DSLR is so important.
For starters, her face is right up close to the camera, right? Wrong! The reason it looks that way is because I'm making use of what is, in real life, known as a telephoto lens. In the real world, what this means is that rather than going up-close to her, she is much further away from the camera, and I've zoomed in This creates a different perspective because it changes the FoV (field of view). Real world lenses are restricted by physics, and there's some things the lens makers are able to do, and some things they're not able to do.
And why does this matter?
It matters because if you are wanting to create a "photograph" using Iray, then Iray must ONLY ever be used in a manner that is feasible in the real world with a real camera and lens. If we don't do that, we have a situation where the image we are trying to make look real, will never look real because no one has ever seen a real photograph taken that way in real life.
And why did I do that?
I did that because I knew from real world experience with a camera, that in order to get that effect, then that is what I needed to do. We make decisions based on the specific look we're after. The bokeh in that image is the result of using THAT lens from THAT distance. Her eyes are in focus and she appears close-up, but what's important to realise is that I specifically put her THAT distance from the camera, and specifically used THAT lens, because I knew EXACTLY what effect it would have on the render and the bokeh. And this, top en extent at least, exmplains what I mean when I said I'm not even specifically trying to make them look real The only reason thery look real is because I'm using Iray the same wayI use the real thing.
So how did I know to do such things?
Because I understand how a fully manual real-world camera works!
And it's not just the realism aspect it will ehlp with, it is composiiton. Sure, you can compose something in the viewport as you would in real life, but in real life, that shot of the girl's face would be quick and easy. In Iray, wihtout this knowledge, you would never have dreamt to send her into the distance and zoom in on her. You would never have dreamt that doing so would effect the bokeh. You would never understand the limits that are inherent in real lenses, and therefore could have gone overboard with your settings instead of working around the limits of physics as a real photographer does. By going overboard you automatically destroy the realism, because in the real world, the photo could not exist, and therefore looks fake.
Postwork is the final element. Because if Iray is our camera, then Postwork is our medium. One of the most epic mistakes that I reckon 99.9% of people make, is to ignore the fact that every real life photo you ever saw, WAS effected by physics and some kind of medium. For analogue cameras it's the lens and the film. For digital cameras it's the lens and the sensor. And if you ever held a photograph in your hand, regardless of whether printed on photo paper or seen on the page of a book, there is ALWAYS a medium involved (for example the photo paper or the book paper).
And that's how I use postwork, it's the way I prefer to simulate medium, so Iray is my camera and postwork is my medium. The rest is just practice, but regardless of how good you get at 3D, you will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage unless you know how to operate a fully manual camera in the real world, and understand the basics of photography that is common between them all.
There's nothing hard about learning traditional photography using a fully manual camera and lens.
Karma: 1,989
Sun, Sep 21My main take from your latest render is that it makes me wonder what she's wondering about, and has an interesting composition.
But regards the other stuff, I already have given the best advice that I think I could give you. The most important part is understanding that the renders only look the way that they do, because I'm using Iray in exactly the same way I would use a fully-manual DSLR in real life. I'm making the same decisions, and it's a heck of a lot easier to get a grip of learning this stuff when you have a real DSLR that will render a real life image at the click of a button. Every decision you make, and every photographic parameter you set on that camera, is completely under your command and will effect what you get when you hit the shutter button.
Iray is exactly the same, in fact you can think of Iray as an unrestricted camera simulator. You need to remember that we as 3D artists will always be second to real-world photography and cinematography. You can't get more real than something that is genuinely real and in front of a real camera.. This is a fact and it can never change no matter how good 3D ot AI tech gets to be.
So, that grainy monochrome render you just asked about?
I'll use that exact render to give you an example of why investing in a fully manual DSLR is so important.
For starters, her face is right up close to the camera, right? Wrong! The reason it looks that way is because I'm making use of what is, in real life, known as a telephoto lens. In the real world, what this means is that rather than going up-close to her, she is much further away from the camera, and I've zoomed in This creates a different perspective because it changes the FoV (field of view). Real world lenses are restricted by physics, and there's some things the lens makers are able to do, and some things they're not able to do.
And why does this matter?
It matters because if you are wanting to create a "photograph" using Iray, then Iray must ONLY ever be used in a manner that is feasible in the real world with a real camera and lens. If we don't do that, we have a situation where the image we are trying to make look real, will never look real because no one has ever seen a real photograph taken that way in real life.
And why did I do that?
I did that because I knew from real world experience with a camera, that in order to get that effect, then that is what I needed to do. We make decisions based on the specific look we're after. The bokeh in that image is the result of using THAT lens from THAT distance. Her eyes are in focus and she appears close-up, but what's important to realise is that I specifically put her THAT distance from the camera, and specifically used THAT lens, because I knew EXACTLY what effect it would have on the render and the bokeh. And this, top en extent at least, exmplains what I mean when I said I'm not even specifically trying to make them look real The only reason thery look real is because I'm using Iray the same wayI use the real thing.
So how did I know to do such things?
Because I understand how a fully manual real-world camera works!
And it's not just the realism aspect it will ehlp with, it is composiiton. Sure, you can compose something in the viewport as you would in real life, but in real life, that shot of the girl's face would be quick and easy. In Iray, wihtout this knowledge, you would never have dreamt to send her into the distance and zoom in on her. You would never have dreamt that doing so would effect the bokeh. You would never understand the limits that are inherent in real lenses, and therefore could have gone overboard with your settings instead of working around the limits of physics as a real photographer does. By going overboard you automatically destroy the realism, because in the real world, the photo could not exist, and therefore looks fake.
Postwork is the final element. Because if Iray is our camera, then Postwork is our medium. One of the most epic mistakes that I reckon 99.9% of people make, is to ignore the fact that every real life photo you ever saw, WAS effected by physics and some kind of medium. For analogue cameras it's the lens and the film. For digital cameras it's the lens and the sensor. And if you ever held a photograph in your hand, regardless of whether printed on photo paper or seen on the page of a book, there is ALWAYS a medium involved (for example the photo paper or the book paper).
And that's how I use postwork, it's the way I prefer to simulate medium, so Iray is my camera and postwork is my medium. The rest is just practice, but regardless of how good you get at 3D, you will ALWAYS be at a disadvantage unless you know how to operate a fully manual camera in the real world, and understand the basics of photography that is common between them all.
There's nothing hard about learning traditional photography using a fully manual camera and lens.
trytrail
Karma: 255
Mon, Sep 22Again Thank you so much COMIXIANT
I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to explain all of this in such detail. I can see now how much of your render quality comes from applying real-world photography knowledge. Honestly, I never thought photography and 3D modeling/3D rendering belonged in the same conversation — but I stand corrected. Thanks again for sharing your experience.
I really appreciate the time you’ve taken to explain all of this in such detail. I can see now how much of your render quality comes from applying real-world photography knowledge. Honestly, I never thought photography and 3D modeling/3D rendering belonged in the same conversation — but I stand corrected. Thanks again for sharing your experience.
