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GLBCan't Edit Pre-Made Strand-Based Hair
735Thread Activity
COMIXIANTMon, Sep 01
Luxe MuseSun, Aug 31
Luxe MuseSun, Aug 31
Luxe MuseSun, Aug 31
COMIXIANTSun, Aug 31
COMIXIANTSun, Aug 31
I bought a couple of hair items from Daz the other day, neither of which were advertised as beng "Strand-Based" despite both of them being so!
So they're strand-based, and I was just scratching my head over how I'm supposed to edit them with the Strand-Based Hair Editor. If I select the hair and then try to use the "Edit Strand-Based Hair" option, it just throws up an error and telling me I need to select an item with a Strand-Based node attached. But since the hair is clearly strand-based to begin with, it must surely already have one somewhere!
I know how strand-based hair works (I've used the editor before) but I always used it starting from scratch. I never actually tried to edited a pre-made strand-based hair before (I prefer to see hair in the viewport when in Iray mode).
Anyway, any info as to what I'm doing wrong here would be greatly appreciated.
! REPORT
It seems that the strand based hair purchased from the Daz Store cannot be edited. A talented Daz creator named UncannyValet on Deviantart has made a great tutorial about strand based hair and at the begining of the tutorial he wrote :
" What are the advantages and disadvantages of SBH Editor?
As mentioned above, the SBH Editor can:
Create dense hairstyles that can approach realism.
Can be edited in the SBH Editor by any Daz Studio user, unlike the SBH hair purchased from Daz3d.com, which usually cannot be edited. This allows for combing and reshaping as desired. "
Here is the link to the tutorial : https://www.deviantart.com/uncannyvalet/journal/Creating-Strand-Based-Hair-SBH-Editor-957594505
" What are the advantages and disadvantages of SBH Editor?
As mentioned above, the SBH Editor can:
Create dense hairstyles that can approach realism.
Can be edited in the SBH Editor by any Daz Studio user, unlike the SBH hair purchased from Daz3d.com, which usually cannot be edited. This allows for combing and reshaping as desired. "
Here is the link to the tutorial : https://www.deviantart.com/uncannyvalet/journal/Creating-Strand-Based-Hair-SBH-Editor-957594505
REPLY
! REPORT
Thanks a lot for that, Dexon! You posted that just minutes after I had posted on Daz about it, but it was in pre-approval stage so I was able to cancel the post.
What a ridiculous limit to impose, I mean I pretty much had to pinch myself over that one! I mean f*ck me, so is this another "Tafi" innovation is it? Or was it always like that? You know, much as I've come to like Genesis 9 after using it a while, I really wish I'd not bothered with it now. Obviously, people are going to want what Mesh Grabber 4 does, we've needed that in Daz Studio for decades. And obviously Strand-Based hair is a good thing, that is of course if you could actually edit the damn strands! Daz Studio is all about working with human figures FFS, yet at every turn they appear to throw spanners into the works in the most inappropriate and contemptive ways possible, spanners that prevent their paying customers from achieving the sort of quality they strive for.
To think that I just bought some "Strand-Based Hair" purely because it wasn't advertised as such (I specifically avoid Strand-Based Hair because I can't see it in the Iray preview). But to top it off, then find out I can't even edit the damn things due to some ludicrous demonstration of contempt for the customer, frankly is as ludicrous as I'm ever going to allow this BS to get!
Since I've still not gotten a response about the rendering issues (and I cannot even edit strand based hair), I'm having a pretty f*cking hard time right now wondering what on earth I'm ever going to use it for! Can't use it to vend or even render stuff for personal projects - I mean what an ABSOLUTE bloody farce!
Sorry about the rant, and that's some really nice work you do by the way, Dexon, it think it looks very nice, very professional!
Thanks again for the heads-up!
REPLY
! REPORT
Anabran
Karma: 2,536
Thu, Feb 06The Strand based or “Dforcehair sold in the Daz store can only be edited with a special internal, tool that is only given to active Daz PA’s.
This is obviously to protect the Daz PA’s from having to compete with third parties such as the people who sell $$cheaper$$ Daz content exclusively at other stores like Renderosity.
I remember there being quite a vocal protest about this in the Daz forums back when the Dforce hair was force introduced.
This is obviously to protect the Daz PA’s from having to compete with third parties such as the people who sell $$cheaper$$ Daz content exclusively at other stores like Renderosity.
I remember there being quite a vocal protest about this in the Daz forums back when the Dforce hair was force introduced.
COMIXIANT
People really need to stop referring to "Strand-Based Hair" as "dForce" - they're two completely different things!
I have "dForce" hair from Linday for example that is geometry based, it has nothing to do with strands. But what you just demonstrated is how I've ended up with Strand-Based hair despite doing my best to avoid them! The vendor advertises them as "dForce" hair, and to me "dForce" is fine since I only need to bother with the dForce aspect of it if I wanted to.
But the items were really "Strand-Based Hair", so that's what they should clearly be labelled as, not "dForce Hair".
TYPES OF HAIR:
1 - POLYGONAL
2 - STRAND
dForce can be applied to either of those types of hair, so it's wrong to categorise any hair as "dForce" without clearly stating the type of hair that it actually is. Remember "dForce" isn't a type of hair, it's merely a dynamics simulation that you can add to hair if you wish, and you can do that regardless of whether it's "Polygonal" or "Strand-based".
Since you can't edit pre-made strand-based hair unless you're a PA - lol - the deception could even be intentional since people very likely have no interest in hair they cannot edit to suit their character and scene, It's a bit like seeling you a car and telling you it's only allowed to be parked on your drive!
Karma: 1,771
Thu, Feb 06People really need to stop referring to "Strand-Based Hair" as "dForce" - they're two completely different things!
I have "dForce" hair from Linday for example that is geometry based, it has nothing to do with strands. But what you just demonstrated is how I've ended up with Strand-Based hair despite doing my best to avoid them! The vendor advertises them as "dForce" hair, and to me "dForce" is fine since I only need to bother with the dForce aspect of it if I wanted to.
But the items were really "Strand-Based Hair", so that's what they should clearly be labelled as, not "dForce Hair".
TYPES OF HAIR:
1 - POLYGONAL
2 - STRAND
dForce can be applied to either of those types of hair, so it's wrong to categorise any hair as "dForce" without clearly stating the type of hair that it actually is. Remember "dForce" isn't a type of hair, it's merely a dynamics simulation that you can add to hair if you wish, and you can do that regardless of whether it's "Polygonal" or "Strand-based".
Since you can't edit pre-made strand-based hair unless you're a PA - lol - the deception could even be intentional since people very likely have no interest in hair they cannot edit to suit their character and scene, It's a bit like seeling you a car and telling you it's only allowed to be parked on your drive!
Uncanny Valet
Karma: 1,215
Wed, Feb 26It might not be an imposed restriction. The SBH Editor was designed by a third party developer over 10 years ago, who sold it to Daz. That person is now making other software.
SBH Editor can only be used to edit SBH objects. Most of the SBH on the daz store are not SBH objects and therefore cannot be edited by the SBH Editor. Instead they are imported polylines with or without the dForce Hair Modifier applied.
SBH Editor can only be used to edit SBH objects. Most of the SBH on the daz store are not SBH objects and therefore cannot be edited by the SBH Editor. Instead they are imported polylines with or without the dForce Hair Modifier applied.
Uncanny Valet
Karma: 1,215
Wed, Feb 26Even if you cant use SBH Editor, I think you can edit the PR strands in other software and import as morph (I assume, maybe dont quote me on this).
You have said customers would be less likely to buy strand hair if they knew they could not edit in SBH Editor, but implicit in your argument is that people then would buy polygonal hair, even though they aren't exactly given great editing tools within Daz for that either.
I think most customers just want morphs and dForce for SBH, not necessarily free reign to edit in SBH Editor. Many people don't even know the SBH Editor exists.
You have said customers would be less likely to buy strand hair if they knew they could not edit in SBH Editor, but implicit in your argument is that people then would buy polygonal hair, even though they aren't exactly given great editing tools within Daz for that either.
I think most customers just want morphs and dForce for SBH, not necessarily free reign to edit in SBH Editor. Many people don't even know the SBH Editor exists.
COMIXIANT
I don't have anything against Strand Based Hair, no reason to, but not having the ability to edit it directly in the viewport makes it an absolute no go zone for me personally. At least with the polygonal hair you can get some form of editing done.
I found out the other day that you can in fact edit strand-based hair too. All you need to do is set the strands so that they have at least three sides, export it as a polygonal object, and then re-import it as one. That way you have an actual geometry based version of your strand-based hair design. Unfotunately, even that is met with issues because due to the nature of the strands, dragging them around causes distortion to the actual strands.
Every time I render something in Daz Studio with hair, I'm majorly pissed-off with the result because the hair isn't posed how I want it to be, so it throws everything else off, destroys realism and pretty much any attempt to render something that looks right. Even those test renders I posted, they're all effected by the hair, because I'm having to make compromising camera angles to look reasonbly ok, but at the same time hide the aspects of the hair style that I don't like.
It's ridiculous that I have to do such a things in a program specifically designed for working with characters. And I will admit this, that despite my anger at Anabran and his love for A.I. it's hardly surprising that he and others would rather take the easy way out than have to deal with such unacceptable limitations.
If A.I. were an image synthesizer that actually generated this stuff through sysnthesis rather than theft, then I would have no problem with it whatsoever. But as we all know, that's not what it does.
Daz Studio is designed primarily for working with figures. Figures have hair and wear clothes, so at the very least we should have had a hair and cloth system long ago that uses every core possible on your machine and allows full editability directly in the viewport.
I understand that Daz need a way to generate a constant stream of content income, but the problem is they're targeting areas of the program that are destroying what the paying userbase can achieve. I suspect that some of these issues might be solved in the next version of Daz Studio, but at the same time I also suspect that they will thow a spanner in the works by putting it behind a subscription or running it in the cloud, and if they do that then I'm permanently moving over to Blender and staying there because I don't rent software, never have, never will.
I'm intentionally just slacking-around right now. I'm in no rush to release anything because unless Daz Studio 5 is released as either free or a paid perpetual licence, then I won't be bothering anyway because like I said, I don't rent software, never have, never will. And If that happens then I'll just stick with Daz Studio 4 and use it as a character generator for blender.
Hell, I doubt I'd even do that to be honest, because there are other interests I want to pursue, stuff I have a life-long passion to bring to fruition, so it could be just the kick up the arse I need to make a start on them. So for now I'm just going to sit back and see what happens with Daz Studio 5 and make my next move based on what comes of it. Since it's due anyway from the sounds of it, it just doesn't make sense for me to bother becoming a vendor until I know what's going on with it.
If I start releasing suff now and they put Daz Studio 5 behind a subscription (or in fact any sort of cloud or 'call home' system), then what would start out as pretty much non-existent sales to start with, would be cut to zero. I need to find ways of generating an income online because I'm planning to buy a van and live the nomadic lifestyle. I intend the vending of 3D content to help contribute at least a trickle of income to that lifestyle, so I can't afford to waste time with ventures that fail to do so.
Thanks for the response by the way, but as you can see, it's just not that simple in my case.
Karma: 1,771
Wed, Feb 26I don't have anything against Strand Based Hair, no reason to, but not having the ability to edit it directly in the viewport makes it an absolute no go zone for me personally. At least with the polygonal hair you can get some form of editing done.
I found out the other day that you can in fact edit strand-based hair too. All you need to do is set the strands so that they have at least three sides, export it as a polygonal object, and then re-import it as one. That way you have an actual geometry based version of your strand-based hair design. Unfotunately, even that is met with issues because due to the nature of the strands, dragging them around causes distortion to the actual strands.
Every time I render something in Daz Studio with hair, I'm majorly pissed-off with the result because the hair isn't posed how I want it to be, so it throws everything else off, destroys realism and pretty much any attempt to render something that looks right. Even those test renders I posted, they're all effected by the hair, because I'm having to make compromising camera angles to look reasonbly ok, but at the same time hide the aspects of the hair style that I don't like.
It's ridiculous that I have to do such a things in a program specifically designed for working with characters. And I will admit this, that despite my anger at Anabran and his love for A.I. it's hardly surprising that he and others would rather take the easy way out than have to deal with such unacceptable limitations.
If A.I. were an image synthesizer that actually generated this stuff through sysnthesis rather than theft, then I would have no problem with it whatsoever. But as we all know, that's not what it does.
Daz Studio is designed primarily for working with figures. Figures have hair and wear clothes, so at the very least we should have had a hair and cloth system long ago that uses every core possible on your machine and allows full editability directly in the viewport.
I understand that Daz need a way to generate a constant stream of content income, but the problem is they're targeting areas of the program that are destroying what the paying userbase can achieve. I suspect that some of these issues might be solved in the next version of Daz Studio, but at the same time I also suspect that they will thow a spanner in the works by putting it behind a subscription or running it in the cloud, and if they do that then I'm permanently moving over to Blender and staying there because I don't rent software, never have, never will.
I'm intentionally just slacking-around right now. I'm in no rush to release anything because unless Daz Studio 5 is released as either free or a paid perpetual licence, then I won't be bothering anyway because like I said, I don't rent software, never have, never will. And If that happens then I'll just stick with Daz Studio 4 and use it as a character generator for blender.
Hell, I doubt I'd even do that to be honest, because there are other interests I want to pursue, stuff I have a life-long passion to bring to fruition, so it could be just the kick up the arse I need to make a start on them. So for now I'm just going to sit back and see what happens with Daz Studio 5 and make my next move based on what comes of it. Since it's due anyway from the sounds of it, it just doesn't make sense for me to bother becoming a vendor until I know what's going on with it.
If I start releasing suff now and they put Daz Studio 5 behind a subscription (or in fact any sort of cloud or 'call home' system), then what would start out as pretty much non-existent sales to start with, would be cut to zero. I need to find ways of generating an income online because I'm planning to buy a van and live the nomadic lifestyle. I intend the vending of 3D content to help contribute at least a trickle of income to that lifestyle, so I can't afford to waste time with ventures that fail to do so.
Thanks for the response by the way, but as you can see, it's just not that simple in my case.
COMIXIANT
To me what Daz call HD Morphs are something that I personally would use Normal Maps for.
Karma: 1,771
Thu, Feb 27To me what Daz call HD Morphs are something that I personally would use Normal Maps for.
Uncanny Valet
Karma: 1,215
Fri, Feb 28For Normal or Displacement Maps vs HD morphs, there is no way to do map convolution (or whatever it's called) in Daz Studio in the same way that you can with Blender/Unreal etc. I.e., you cannot have maps under control of drivers and blend between maps.
But you can do this with HD morphs. You can make HD blendshapes so that when an arm bone rotates, a HD morph is fired for the elbow etc, when a face expression is dialled, an HD expression morph is activated.
Normal maps cant do any of that. The clavicle, knee, elbow, details will all be permanently baked into the normal map. Which is a problem because ideally these areas should be dialled out of the Normal Map under certain poses, e.g., the knee and elbow become smoother when bent, so it's not as good to have normal map for these.
Of course, it's nicer to be able to use Normal Maps at low poly...
Even Blender does not have a way to have HD blendshapes like Daz Studio's HD morphs. In Blender you can have HD shapes of course, but not blendshapes. You have to convolute between displacement maps to get HD blendshapes.
But you can do this with HD morphs. You can make HD blendshapes so that when an arm bone rotates, a HD morph is fired for the elbow etc, when a face expression is dialled, an HD expression morph is activated.
Normal maps cant do any of that. The clavicle, knee, elbow, details will all be permanently baked into the normal map. Which is a problem because ideally these areas should be dialled out of the Normal Map under certain poses, e.g., the knee and elbow become smoother when bent, so it's not as good to have normal map for these.
Of course, it's nicer to be able to use Normal Maps at low poly...
Even Blender does not have a way to have HD blendshapes like Daz Studio's HD morphs. In Blender you can have HD shapes of course, but not blendshapes. You have to convolute between displacement maps to get HD blendshapes.
I didnt read all that, but i just want to point out you dont need to make tessellation sides = 3 to export. Increasing tessellation is a bad idea for a host of different reasons, least of all being that it increases VRAM usage, but also makes hair look worse because the strands are no longer iray curves.
With Tessellation Side of 1 or 0, you can export as obj and Daz Studio will write out hair as polylines in the obj (assuming you select write polylines in the obj export dialogue).
There is a workflow for creating morphs via other software but I can't really be bothered explaining it. You can also convert the exported hair in Blender to Particle Hair or new Hair Curves and then style the hair in Blender using those groom systems, rather than using something within Daz (not that there is any such tool to groom polylines within Daz).
There are few character creators in industry who are still using polygonal hair, outside of games. Most people are using strand hair made in xgen or blender etc to make realistic grooms. It just looks better. The fact that there isn't a good way to style polylines or strand hair in Daz Studio is perhaps annoying, but Daz Studio cant do thousands of things that other DCC software can do. Might be wise to manage your expectations or use other software for things Daz cant do.
With Tessellation Side of 1 or 0, you can export as obj and Daz Studio will write out hair as polylines in the obj (assuming you select write polylines in the obj export dialogue).
There is a workflow for creating morphs via other software but I can't really be bothered explaining it. You can also convert the exported hair in Blender to Particle Hair or new Hair Curves and then style the hair in Blender using those groom systems, rather than using something within Daz (not that there is any such tool to groom polylines within Daz).
There are few character creators in industry who are still using polygonal hair, outside of games. Most people are using strand hair made in xgen or blender etc to make realistic grooms. It just looks better. The fact that there isn't a good way to style polylines or strand hair in Daz Studio is perhaps annoying, but Daz Studio cant do thousands of things that other DCC software can do. Might be wise to manage your expectations or use other software for things Daz cant do.
REPLY
! REPORT
"It's ridiculous that I have to do such a things in a program specifically designed for working with characters. And I will admit this, that despite my anger at Anabran and his love for A.I. it's hardly surprising that he and others would rather take the easy way out than have to deal with such unacceptable limitations."
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Daz studios limitations are perfectly acceptable considering the cost of the software
As they say ,back in Saudi Arabia
The beggar and the chooser cannot ride upon the same camel.
I mostly use AI for voices and backdrops in my 2D animation work.
If I need stylable 3D hair I leave Daz studio in the junk bin with the other kiddie toys,
and fire up My Autodesk Maya ,and use its Xgen hair system System.
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Daz studios limitations are perfectly acceptable considering the cost of the software
As they say ,back in Saudi Arabia
The beggar and the chooser cannot ride upon the same camel.
I mostly use AI for voices and backdrops in my 2D animation work.
If I need stylable 3D hair I leave Daz studio in the junk bin with the other kiddie toys,
and fire up My Autodesk Maya ,and use its Xgen hair system System.
REPLY
! REPORT
@Uncanny Valet
It looks as if my best option is to simply do the hair in Blender and then export it to Daz Studio. That other method you mention, about exporting strand-based hair without geometry and bringing it into blender as groomable hair, do you now of any good tutorials for that?
Your own tutorial is for the opposite, for going from Blender to Daz.
@Anabran
You know very well I will not touch subscription software, and even if it were not subscription, I have no intention of furnishing corporate tossers like Autodesk with thousands of pounds just to get my hands on a hair system that is likely no better than blender's latest implementation anyway!
As for using A.I. for speech, that is actually the ONLY valid form you use it for, and even then, ONLY if the sound-print it used was authorised and NOT stolen, As I said, I would have no problem with A.I. as a technology if it were actually synthesizing this stuff from scratch, and/or pulled it from authorised data sources.
As we all know, that's not the case, and that's why I have a problem with it. Seriously, you're wasting your time with these little A.I. nonsenses you keep injecting into our discussions It ain't happening bro!
REPLY
! REPORT
Anabran
Karma: 2,536
Wed, Feb 26This was strictly a thread about the Daz hair system until the piss poor brokie injected this passage;
“It's ridiculous that I have to do such a things in a program specifically designed for working with characters. And I will admit this, that despite my anger at Anabran and his love for A.I. it's hardly surprising that he and others would rather take the easy way out than have to deal with such unacceptable limitations.
If A.I. were an image synthesizer that actually generated this stuff through sysnthesis rather than theft, then I would have no problem with it whatsoever. But as we all know, that's not what it does.br>
“Anger at Anabran???
why be angry at me for using AI
focus on learning some actual creative skills yourself and ignore AI like a real Artist would.
“It's ridiculous that I have to do such a things in a program specifically designed for working with characters. And I will admit this, that despite my anger at Anabran and his love for A.I. it's hardly surprising that he and others would rather take the easy way out than have to deal with such unacceptable limitations.
If A.I. were an image synthesizer that actually generated this stuff through sysnthesis rather than theft, then I would have no problem with it whatsoever. But as we all know, that's not what it does.br>
“Anger at Anabran???
why be angry at me for using AI
focus on learning some actual creative skills yourself and ignore AI like a real Artist would.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 4,800
Wed, Feb 26I hear you, and yeah, using AI feels like cheating to me too. Maybe we’ll get left behind, or maybe the world will eventually figure out this isn’t the right path for humankind. But then again, we still haven’t figured out how to stop big corporations from pumping our food with junk that slowly kills us, so…
Blender’s the best tool out there, hands down, if you ask me. I spent on Substance Painter about three years ago and thought, “Next time I’ve got 300 bucks to throw in the dumpster, I’ll donate it to Blender instead.And I actually did that last year! I hope everyone who uses it gives them a tip to at least buy them a coffee.
Blender’s the best tool out there, hands down, if you ask me. I spent on Substance Painter about three years ago and thought, “Next time I’ve got 300 bucks to throw in the dumpster, I’ll donate it to Blender instead.And I actually did that last year! I hope everyone who uses it gives them a tip to at least buy them a coffee.
COMIXIANT
Anabran, it was simply a statement to point out that I'm not surprised that people are being driven to A.I. in order to get around problems that would not exist if the tools specifically designed for the job, were capable enough.
It was NOT a geenlight for you to turn the conversation into another A.I. debate.
I refuse point-blank, to be complicit in the theft of intellectual property and destruction of the very fabric of society. I cannot make that any clearer than I have, and I strongly recommend that you strop harrassing me over it. You have an infinitely better chance of fucking that camel and landing yourself with a chimera than you have of getting me to use of A.I..
As for me needing to focus on buildiing some skills, ok, noted.
Karma: 1,771
Wed, Feb 26Anabran, it was simply a statement to point out that I'm not surprised that people are being driven to A.I. in order to get around problems that would not exist if the tools specifically designed for the job, were capable enough.
It was NOT a geenlight for you to turn the conversation into another A.I. debate.
I refuse point-blank, to be complicit in the theft of intellectual property and destruction of the very fabric of society. I cannot make that any clearer than I have, and I strongly recommend that you strop harrassing me over it. You have an infinitely better chance of fucking that camel and landing yourself with a chimera than you have of getting me to use of A.I..
As for me needing to focus on buildiing some skills, ok, noted.
COMIXIANT
Sorry Lux Muse, I only just saw your post. Spot on, and personally I think the only time this bullshit will ever be brought to heel is when the population are forced to revolt. I do believe it will happen since it will surely become the only avenue left for civilised society to survive.
Karma: 1,771
Wed, Feb 26Sorry Lux Muse, I only just saw your post. Spot on, and personally I think the only time this bullshit will ever be brought to heel is when the population are forced to revolt. I do believe it will happen since it will surely become the only avenue left for civilised society to survive.
Uncanny Valet
Karma: 1,215
Thu, Feb 27Regarding how to convert hair to something you can restyle in Blender, you might firstly want to check out Diffeomorphic's options for converting strand hair. I assume their process is fairly automated, not that i've used it.
A simple alternative workflow right be to export as obj, then in Blender right-click and convert to Curve, then right-click and convert to hair Curves, then set surface attachment etc. But after that, it gets slightly complicated depending on how complex the hair is and what you actually want to do, i.e., did you export at low density (style curves only) with the intention to repopulate the children hair in Blender, or did you export at full density and want to simply style the very complex hair in blender (which maybe sounds easier but can be very slow and tedious to style a very dense hair like this).
If the final hair you have created in blender is not the same resolution and vertex order as the original hair in Daz Studio, then you cannot load in Daz as morph so would have to bring into Daz as new hair. Which is fine, you can do so easily. But you wont be able to apply dforce hair modifier to your custom hair. To load the hair as morph onto existing Daz SBH, you would need to have a workflow that maintains resolution and vertex order.
A simple alternative workflow right be to export as obj, then in Blender right-click and convert to Curve, then right-click and convert to hair Curves, then set surface attachment etc. But after that, it gets slightly complicated depending on how complex the hair is and what you actually want to do, i.e., did you export at low density (style curves only) with the intention to repopulate the children hair in Blender, or did you export at full density and want to simply style the very complex hair in blender (which maybe sounds easier but can be very slow and tedious to style a very dense hair like this).
If the final hair you have created in blender is not the same resolution and vertex order as the original hair in Daz Studio, then you cannot load in Daz as morph so would have to bring into Daz as new hair. Which is fine, you can do so easily. But you wont be able to apply dforce hair modifier to your custom hair. To load the hair as morph onto existing Daz SBH, you would need to have a workflow that maintains resolution and vertex order.
COMIXIANT
A bIg thanks to you for that, I really aptreciate it and actually, that sounds a lot better a situation than I was beginning to think it was, but just one more question if that's ok.
Is there a way to create a groom (from scratch) in Blender, export it as some sort of strand or curve and then import it into Daz Studio so that it recognises it as actual strands? Just to be clear, I don't mean so that I'm then able to edit it in Daz Studio (that's not important in this case), but just enough so that it recognises it as strands so that I can render it as Daz Studio would render native strands?
If that can be done then I'd be sorted, because all I'd need to do is design and store the hairstyles in Blender and restyle them appropriately before exporting it to be rendered as strands in Daz Studio.
I've never used Diffeomorphic by the way, so I'll have to take a look at that.
Karma: 1,771
Thu, Feb 27A bIg thanks to you for that, I really aptreciate it and actually, that sounds a lot better a situation than I was beginning to think it was, but just one more question if that's ok.
Is there a way to create a groom (from scratch) in Blender, export it as some sort of strand or curve and then import it into Daz Studio so that it recognises it as actual strands? Just to be clear, I don't mean so that I'm then able to edit it in Daz Studio (that's not important in this case), but just enough so that it recognises it as strands so that I can render it as Daz Studio would render native strands?
If that can be done then I'd be sorted, because all I'd need to do is design and store the hairstyles in Blender and restyle them appropriately before exporting it to be rendered as strands in Daz Studio.
I've never used Diffeomorphic by the way, so I'll have to take a look at that.
Uncanny Valet
Karma: 1,215
Fri, Feb 28yes, you can make particle hair or blender's geometry node curves hair and then convert into curves/mesh and export as obj.
Blender currently has an issue with exported splines in obj format. Blender devs are aware of the issue, so maybe it has already been fixed in latest Blender version (i havent been checking newest blender versions.)
The issue is described here.
https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/issues/126875
The issue becomes apparent in Daz studio only when you change the Start Line Width and End Line Width parameters in the Surfaces tab for hair. If the two parameters are different values, then the hair will look very bad in Daz Studio iray.
As a workaround, you can use a method like the one i described on deviantart for exporting blender strand hair to daz which fixes the splines in the obj format.
Blender currently has an issue with exported splines in obj format. Blender devs are aware of the issue, so maybe it has already been fixed in latest Blender version (i havent been checking newest blender versions.)
The issue is described here.
https://projects.blender.org/blender/blender/issues/126875
The issue becomes apparent in Daz studio only when you change the Start Line Width and End Line Width parameters in the Surfaces tab for hair. If the two parameters are different values, then the hair will look very bad in Daz Studio iray.
As a workaround, you can use a method like the one i described on deviantart for exporting blender strand hair to daz which fixes the splines in the obj format.
COMIXIANT
I'm going to get Diffeomorphic downloaded after tea tonight, watch some videos on it and then knuckle down on your advice.
Big thanks again, cheers mate, and it looks as if that issue you linked to is closed now, so with a bit of luck it means it's fixed!
Karma: 1,771
Fri, Feb 28I'm going to get Diffeomorphic downloaded after tea tonight, watch some videos on it and then knuckle down on your advice.
Big thanks again, cheers mate, and it looks as if that issue you linked to is closed now, so with a bit of luck it means it's fixed!
Maybe you could start another thread so we can continue discussing hair.
On that topic, I have used D-Former to better fit hair onto my characters for a long time. It is not a simple process and takes time and generally more than one D-Former to get it right, but the advantage is that once you are satisfied, you can save those adjustments as morphs.
For example:
On that topic, I have used D-Former to better fit hair onto my characters for a long time. It is not a simple process and takes time and generally more than one D-Former to get it right, but the advantage is that once you are satisfied, you can save those adjustments as morphs.
For example:
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COMIXIANT
Sorry Luxe Muse, looks like we cross-posted. I hear you on that, but as replied to Uncanny Valet just a few minutes ago, I really need a way to properly style the hair so I'm really hoping he tells me that what I just asked, can be done. If it can't then I suppose my only other option is doing the same, but instead of rendering it as strands, I'd just have to export it as geometry from Blender and render it in Daz Studio as geometry. Like I said though, it would be perfect if grooms from Blender could be recognised as strands in Daz Studio, even without the ability to edit them.
Karma: 1,771
Thu, Feb 27Sorry Luxe Muse, looks like we cross-posted. I hear you on that, but as replied to Uncanny Valet just a few minutes ago, I really need a way to properly style the hair so I'm really hoping he tells me that what I just asked, can be done. If it can't then I suppose my only other option is doing the same, but instead of rendering it as strands, I'd just have to export it as geometry from Blender and render it in Daz Studio as geometry. Like I said though, it would be perfect if grooms from Blender could be recognised as strands in Daz Studio, even without the ability to edit them.
novelostories
Karma: 175
Sun, Jun 15I know I'm necroposting but in case you are still interested, Geometry nodes are your friends, for converting splines (blender hair) into poligonal geometry you can use in DAZ. There are a few tutorials out there on how to do this just type Geometry Nodes / Curves to Mesh.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 4,800
Mon, Jun 16Yes, I am not an expert, but I created the G8 brows for one of my characters using this method. Perhaps with a few more brows and additional hairs, I might improve my skills. However, my first attempt resulted in a significant amount of geometry, I had to decimate the results considerably, which slightly deformed the hairs, but it goes to show, is doable IMO.
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Well I've tried, but I can't even get started on installing that Diffeomorphic thing, nevermind use it, so I'll just have to keep my eye out for something newer and easier to handle, and who knows, maybe Daz Studio 5 will deliver!
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I made a comment above regarding blender hairs and converting o mesh, but I couldn't paste an image, I hope this helps @COMIXIANT
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Outer Node.
I carefully carved out and separated a copy of the geometry in the brow area (which for you should be the scalp) from the Genesis mesh, shaping it to serve as my target, the object featuring the geometry node shader. The object information pertains to the curves object, which contains the hair grooms.
I carefully carved out and separated a copy of the geometry in the brow area (which for you should be the scalp) from the Genesis mesh, shaping it to serve as my target, the object featuring the geometry node shader. The object information pertains to the curves object, which contains the hair grooms.
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Sorry for the late reply. It's the first time I've logged in for a while!
I really appreciate that but to be honest I would never even get into that sort of thing. I do like working with nodes (I do it in Divinci Resolve Studio often) but it all feels a bit alien in blender for some reason. I was actually quite pissed off that the new hair system depended so much on nodes. The last thing people who complain about the complexity of blender needs, is to have to get tied-up in knots over nodes, so it blew my mnd when they did that!
I understand why technically it's a good thing, but I won't be touching that stuff until there are more interface adjustments available.
PS: Thanks also to Uncanny Valet for his assistance in the Substance Painter thread over at Daz.
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On second thoughts, Luxe, I think I might have to do this, but how do you specifically save the node network?
I know of the method for saving and appending by saving out a scene and reimporting using append, but how do I specifically save a node network so that if I create it, I can just load it up any time I need it to make use of it?
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Luxe Muse
Karma: 4,800
Sun, Aug 31Hi Comixiant. I do just what you said, I copy from the first time I got it working and then adjust if needed, but yes, just append and then update the source nodes (Object Info), to the new hairs curves you made.
Well that's interesting. It seems the only way to save a node network is in fact using the standard blend file and to bring it back in using the "Append" function. I've nothing against doing it like that, no reson to, but every time I've used the Append functionality, I've always thought it was because I was too bloody idle to look into the proper way to save something specific
In hindsight, I suppose it's a bit genious really, that you can just save any type of thing you want using the exact same method, and it can all be brought back in using the same Append function.
II'll build this node network and save it as "Hair Converter". That said, I'm still going to have to find something (maybe a plugin or whatever) that takes the new hair node functionality and gives it an interface for actually designing the hair instead of having to access it through the node tree.
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I forgot to mention, in my example I use a curve to generate the hair circular shape but, if you look at most of the "fiver" meshes, they are not really circular (it generates too much geometry). So, feel free to use other shapes and see if it renders better results. Here is another example I used to convert these brows to mesh:
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By the way, the new particle system is much better for making hair, but I still use the old one. I then convert from the old particle system to curves, which is the new hair system. After that, I add the nodes and such that turn the curves into the new hairs, and I use that as my source to convert to geometry. I know it is confusing and convoluted, but I still like the way I can comb the hairs with the old system.
So, after I convert to curves, I use it as the source for the nodes I shared above. Here are my curves, and you can see I have hidden the geometry that actually has the geometry nodes that do the conversion to mesh.
So, after I convert to curves, I use it as the source for the nodes I shared above. Here are my curves, and you can see I have hidden the geometry that actually has the geometry nodes that do the conversion to mesh.
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COMIXIANT
Thanks for these,, Luxe, I appreciate it. I suspect that in the end I will end up doing 50% of the workflow you have demonstrated here, and the rest by some node-simplificatoin workflow (in so far as actual hair-styling I mean). I did find a nice hair channel last night and I'm still going through the videos. I'll post one here if I find one that fits or is feasible.
I did eventually get Diffeomorphic installed by the way, but haven't touched it much yet since I also picked up Substance Painter, and learning it sort of took over for a while.. Yeah I know, I can't stand Adobe either, but it was a perpetual licence and even has a native Linux version, so in the end I went for it and to be fair, I'm glad I did.
Hair is really my only obstacle now, so I'm going to have to find a workable start-to-finish solution one way or the other.
Karma: 1,771
Mon, Sep 01Thanks for these,, Luxe, I appreciate it. I suspect that in the end I will end up doing 50% of the workflow you have demonstrated here, and the rest by some node-simplificatoin workflow (in so far as actual hair-styling I mean). I did find a nice hair channel last night and I'm still going through the videos. I'll post one here if I find one that fits or is feasible.
I did eventually get Diffeomorphic installed by the way, but haven't touched it much yet since I also picked up Substance Painter, and learning it sort of took over for a while.. Yeah I know, I can't stand Adobe either, but it was a perpetual licence and even has a native Linux version, so in the end I went for it and to be fair, I'm glad I did.
Hair is really my only obstacle now, so I'm going to have to find a workable start-to-finish solution one way or the other.
