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GLBDAZ: Sunny skies and gray skins (Iray)
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One of my pictures triggered a tiny little discussion about gray skin in outdoor scenes (Iray). Since I take the settings I'm about to discuss reflexively, it didn't occur to me to point this out. Well ...
Most of my pictures (I would say about 110%
are based on outdoor settings (Dome / Dome and Scene) ... even if it looks like indoor / studio. After I have roughly set up the scene (pose, camera, camera angle, etc.), one of my first steps is to switch to the RENDER SETTINGS pane.
In addition to the dome rotation (Environment Options), which I use for better light/shadow ratios, it is above all the TONE MAPPING options that lift the veil of gray. So let's take a closer look at them.
GAMMA
Gamma means that the dark and middle tones of an image are lightened / darkened. The default value of 2.2 is largely responsible for the gray look. I have achieved good results with a setting between 1.7 and 2.0. Just give it a try.
CRUSH BLACKS
A kind of - strangely named - contrast option for dark areas. Depending on your taste, you can go up to 0.5 for colored images. 0.3 is a good starting value.
BURN HIGHLIGHTS
OK - not quite so stupidly named, this option provides stronger color tones and brightenings in bright areas of your image. Depending on your taste, you can go up to 0.65 for colored images. 0.4 is a good starting value.
With just these 3 options you can give your rendering an improved look: gray out and color in
Fortunately, I had some extra money at some point and was able to afford a better graphics card, so I can make and adjust the settings in real time. If you don't have this privilege, you may be able to try it out as follows: First render a small (!) image with your normal settings. Now render an image with the following TONE MAPPING settings: Gamma: 1.9, Crush Blacks: 0.3 and Burn Highlights: 0.4.
If I'm not completely off the mark with my writing, you should notice a significant difference between the two pictures.
Happy rendering
Most of my pictures (I would say about 110%
are based on outdoor settings (Dome / Dome and Scene) ... even if it looks like indoor / studio. After I have roughly set up the scene (pose, camera, camera angle, etc.), one of my first steps is to switch to the RENDER SETTINGS pane.In addition to the dome rotation (Environment Options), which I use for better light/shadow ratios, it is above all the TONE MAPPING options that lift the veil of gray. So let's take a closer look at them.
GAMMA
Gamma means that the dark and middle tones of an image are lightened / darkened. The default value of 2.2 is largely responsible for the gray look. I have achieved good results with a setting between 1.7 and 2.0. Just give it a try.
CRUSH BLACKS
A kind of - strangely named - contrast option for dark areas. Depending on your taste, you can go up to 0.5 for colored images. 0.3 is a good starting value.
BURN HIGHLIGHTS
OK - not quite so stupidly named, this option provides stronger color tones and brightenings in bright areas of your image. Depending on your taste, you can go up to 0.65 for colored images. 0.4 is a good starting value.
With just these 3 options you can give your rendering an improved look: gray out and color in
Fortunately, I had some extra money at some point and was able to afford a better graphics card, so I can make and adjust the settings in real time. If you don't have this privilege, you may be able to try it out as follows: First render a small (!) image with your normal settings. Now render an image with the following TONE MAPPING settings: Gamma: 1.9, Crush Blacks: 0.3 and Burn Highlights: 0.4.
If I'm not completely off the mark with my writing, you should notice a significant difference between the two pictures.
Happy rendering
! REPORT
Thank you very much, this was very useful.
I think the visuals also depend on the monitors. What is bright for me is dark on the other monitor. I won't list...
I think the visuals also depend on the monitors. What is bright for me is dark on the other monitor. I won't list...
REPLY
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 33,777
Mon, Mar 17You are of course right about the monitors ... but there is something like a universal gray haze that is visible on every monitor in one form or another ... at least I think so
Rozsakert67
Karma: 10,471
Mon, Mar 17I only notice the big difference. I miss the "fine tuning" in my eyes. 
I second this as a very useful post, and can also attest to the variation of monitors as my peasntly set up currently has 1 Samsung monitor and 1 Benq and even trying to adjust the settings on each to match, the Benq ALWAYS has far better white and colour depth. Again thanks for the helpful post i will 100% try these suggestions out, Cheers!
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 33,777
Tue, Mar 18Thanks for your comment
Below you can find an example i've created ...
Below you can find an example i've created ...
If you don't feel like trying out the settings yourself: I've just added a picture to the gallery
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/63537/veil-of-gray-forum-thread-addition
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/63537/veil-of-gray-forum-thread-addition
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LovecraftianPenguin
Karma: 7,430
Tue, Mar 18Haha yeah i came over from your gallery post but cheers !
Yeayy, another thingy to fiddle with - but thanks for the in depth desciption of what those settings REALLY do. Much appreciated.
REPLY
! REPORT
Good tone mapping makes a big difference to a render.
Obviously you do what works well for you, bit generally I'd advise being a bit more restrained with burning highlights - 0.1-0.2 or so. Much like with digital photography, it's very easy to boost highlights in post, but if the image is captured with an overexposed area, there's no data there but white, so you can't reduce it afterwards if you need to.
Obviously you do what works well for you, bit generally I'd advise being a bit more restrained with burning highlights - 0.1-0.2 or so. Much like with digital photography, it's very easy to boost highlights in post, but if the image is captured with an overexposed area, there's no data there but white, so you can't reduce it afterwards if you need to.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 33,777
Wed, Mar 19Thanks for the hint
Since I'm someone who likes to write " No post proc " under images and also likes to test the limits of what can be done in DAZ without using any additional filter or image editing programs (anyone can do that), I'll just stick to my hints and wish everyone happy experimenting
Since I'm someone who likes to write " No post proc " under images and also likes to test the limits of what can be done in DAZ without using any additional filter or image editing programs (anyone can do that), I'll just stick to my hints and wish everyone happy experimenting
Oooh...thanks so much for this!! I was wondering about those settings, but I had yet to get around to playing with them. Now I will!!
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 33,777
Wed, Mar 19Thank you very much for the feedback
I promise you: it's really fun to experiment with the settings!
I promise you: it's really fun to experiment with the settings!
@Pushee-Ri Thank you for this. I'll experiment and see if those "grey" skins I abandoned can be recovered.
@IB2024 That makes sense and is a great point. I'm also in the no post processing club.. not due to some position I hold; just laziness or avoidance. I'll keep those burn highlights restrained for when I start playing with post work.. thank you.
I've seen that certain light rigs can cause that grey effect. It just happens that the ones I use for outdoor lighting grey out my skins and the ghost lights I use for indoor lighting do not. @3DLoki does this amazing light comparison sales image for their (recent) character offerings that really shows this effect. At this time, I do not believe that there are any "bad" skins or "bad" lights, just unfortunate skin/light combinations..
@IB2024 That makes sense and is a great point. I'm also in the no post processing club.. not due to some position I hold; just laziness or avoidance. I'll keep those burn highlights restrained for when I start playing with post work.. thank you.
I've seen that certain light rigs can cause that grey effect. It just happens that the ones I use for outdoor lighting grey out my skins and the ghost lights I use for indoor lighting do not. @3DLoki does this amazing light comparison sales image for their (recent) character offerings that really shows this effect. At this time, I do not believe that there are any "bad" skins or "bad" lights, just unfortunate skin/light combinations..
REPLY
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 33,777
Sun, Mar 23Thank you very much for your feedback
Yes - you're right: there are neither bad light sources nor bad 3D skins (well ...). It always depends on what you do with the light. By the way: Tone mapping also works for indoor scenes ... but somehow I have no connection to indoor (probably because I run through the ceiling or the walls when experimenting with the camera position indoors
As for the No Post Proc: I recently asked myself why this is so important to me. The reason is (probably) that I originally come from a manual 2D background - where I mainly worked with pen and ink or etching. And with those techniques, you can't (!) make mistakes or hope that you can somehow retouch the mistakes. Well ... always these personality ticks
Have a great sunday
Yes - you're right: there are neither bad light sources nor bad 3D skins (well ...). It always depends on what you do with the light. By the way: Tone mapping also works for indoor scenes ... but somehow I have no connection to indoor (probably because I run through the ceiling or the walls when experimenting with the camera position indoors
As for the No Post Proc: I recently asked myself why this is so important to me. The reason is (probably) that I originally come from a manual 2D background - where I mainly worked with pen and ink or etching. And with those techniques, you can't (!) make mistakes or hope that you can somehow retouch the mistakes. Well ... always these personality ticks
Have a great sunday
