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500Thread Activity
TenserknotSun, Oct 05
Pushee-RiSun, Oct 05
maru_berlinSun, Oct 05
maru_berlinSun, Oct 05
Pushee-RiSun, Oct 05
MasterstrokeFri, Oct 03
Dear character creators.
Please.....when you make some promos, show your new character with different expressions. I've found that in many cases a character looks great but applying an expression makes them go all to heck. If I don't see a few different expressions in your promos I'll regretfully walk on by.
This seems particularly pronounced on younger characters (teens). Expression packs are usually made for older characters and don't seem to translate well on younger models.
Thanks!
Please.....when you make some promos, show your new character with different expressions. I've found that in many cases a character looks great but applying an expression makes them go all to heck. If I don't see a few different expressions in your promos I'll regretfully walk on by.
This seems particularly pronounced on younger characters (teens). Expression packs are usually made for older characters and don't seem to translate well on younger models.
Thanks!
! REPORT
There is a simple answer to that, and that answer is not good.
Expressions have to be custom made for each character seperately.
What looks great or at least o.k on a base figure, can look terrible on a character's face. The more different a character looks from its base figure, the worse it gets.
Expressions have to be custom made for each character seperately.
What looks great or at least o.k on a base figure, can look terrible on a character's face. The more different a character looks from its base figure, the worse it gets.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,470
Tue, Sep 23I have to disagree here (at least in some cases): my Bakshee Freebie is very different from GF8... and every standard facial expression is hilarious.
However, I still haven't figured out why that is sometimes the case.
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/64894/bakshee
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/70107/bakshee-boots-and-a-banana
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/60793/bakshee-info
However, I still haven't figured out why that is sometimes the case.
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/64894/bakshee
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/70107/bakshee-boots-and-a-banana
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/60793/bakshee-info
Thanks for the reply. What prompted me to ask was a recent purchase at a small vendor's site. The young character comes with a bunch of expressions that work brilliantly. The 'laugh' expression made me chuckle because it's so cute and heart warming. I keep thinking kittens and puppies.
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I reckon the problem is down to the way the face bones are weighted to the polygons of the face. In my opinion they effect way too much area surrounding the face bones. Even a simple looking up or down expression can break the look of a character, because it pulls too much of the surrounding skin surface along with it.
Right now I'm rendering an image with an upward-looking expression, and I only just managed to keep it within limits of it breaking her look. If I wanted to go any further then I woud need to sculpt an actual looking up morph so that it can be driven by the dial.
I like the way it works, but I wish that whoever is responsible for mapping the face bones, would treat them more localised than they do.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,470
Tue, Sep 23You've hit the nail on the head!
And when you add lighting that distorts facial expressions with every change, it sometimes gets completely crazy ...
And when you add lighting that distorts facial expressions with every change, it sometimes gets completely crazy ...
I totally agree with you. Expressions are a tricky thing in the sense that some do have morphs, while others use the out-of-the-box morphs. So it is hard for the end user to realize which one is the offending expression and why your character looks strange.
My own characters look odd with certain expressions (though I know they were not designed for younger figures), and even my adult ones appear strange in them.
This is also why I never consider my characters finished products. I usually include corrective morphs for smiles, shrugs, and blinks from the beginning, but as I experiment with my characters, if I notice anything amiss, I try to correct it and release updates as often as I can.
I do encourage anyone who experiences an issue with my characters to contact me, hopefully directly, but otherwise please leave me a screenshot and details of the issue on my support forum page so I can fix it: https://www.renderhub.com/forum/10865/luxe-muse-support-and-updates
My own characters look odd with certain expressions (though I know they were not designed for younger figures), and even my adult ones appear strange in them.
This is also why I never consider my characters finished products. I usually include corrective morphs for smiles, shrugs, and blinks from the beginning, but as I experiment with my characters, if I notice anything amiss, I try to correct it and release updates as often as I can.
I do encourage anyone who experiences an issue with my characters to contact me, hopefully directly, but otherwise please leave me a screenshot and details of the issue on my support forum page so I can fix it: https://www.renderhub.com/forum/10865/luxe-muse-support-and-updates
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Luxe Muse
Karma: 5,051
Tue, Sep 23This character, for example, is down because I'm reworking some issues with her eyelashes while blinking, plus other minor improvements.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 5,051
Tue, Sep 23Creators, however, do need your encouragement and for you, as a customer, to reach out to us.
And to creators, I would say, I know we do not always have the time to respond to every request, nor are we able to solve every issue, especially those that the customer might feel are our fault but are completely out of our hands. But if you can, do it; it will help you in more ways than you know.
And to creators, I would say, I know we do not always have the time to respond to every request, nor are we able to solve every issue, especially those that the customer might feel are our fault but are completely out of our hands. But if you can, do it; it will help you in more ways than you know.
This is great advice for Daz content creators. The expression will make or break the character, for sure!
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Bobb
Karma: 785
Sun, Sep 28Absolutely!
I buy very few characters because so many of them look the same. Most creator's characters look the same so if you have one, you pretty much have them all. I found much more variety with Vicky Four and still use her a lot. There's so many creators bragging about using sculpting tools and working from a real model. Most of it seems to be just marketing BS and a lot of hype. I'll bet that many of them just spin a few morph dials and call it a new character.
If I see a unique new character that appeals to me AND it has a variety of expressions, I'll consider a buy but there's lots of 'if's' there.
I buy very few characters because so many of them look the same. Most creator's characters look the same so if you have one, you pretty much have them all. I found much more variety with Vicky Four and still use her a lot. There's so many creators bragging about using sculpting tools and working from a real model. Most of it seems to be just marketing BS and a lot of hype. I'll bet that many of them just spin a few morph dials and call it a new character.
If I see a unique new character that appeals to me AND it has a variety of expressions, I'll consider a buy but there's lots of 'if's' there.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,470
Mon, Sep 29@TechWorks
It would be enough if the producers showed the character with a few standard facial expressions instead of creating their own facial expressions for the character.
Honestly, I have a male G9 model who, despite the many facial morphs available for G9, always looks like an idiot as soon as you change anything about the standard facial expression. I certainly wouldn't have bought it if I had seen a few other facial expressions from him. That's probably why there aren't any: who wants to buy an idiot?
@Bobb
I'm not (hopefully) bragging about using sculpting tools ... I just use them extensively
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/13973/comrade-krasnov-wip-amp-tip
It would be enough if the producers showed the character with a few standard facial expressions instead of creating their own facial expressions for the character.
Honestly, I have a male G9 model who, despite the many facial morphs available for G9, always looks like an idiot as soon as you change anything about the standard facial expression. I certainly wouldn't have bought it if I had seen a few other facial expressions from him. That's probably why there aren't any: who wants to buy an idiot?
@Bobb
I'm not (hopefully) bragging about using sculpting tools ... I just use them extensively
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/13973/comrade-krasnov-wip-amp-tip
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,470
Mon, Sep 29@Luxe:
Naaa - I don't think that refers to your models. They are truly unique
But there is a certain similarity between other products. This is understandable within a CC's product range. Everyone has their preferences, which are then inevitably reflected in the models.
Unfortunately, however, there is also a self-similarity that extends beyond the boundaries of individual producers. In my opinion, this is because these models are produced using sliders only, without any fine-tuning through sculpting.
But that doesn't apply to you, as you prove time and again with your sculpting WIPs.
So: everything is fine (but I also really like ice cream
Naaa - I don't think that refers to your models. They are truly unique
But there is a certain similarity between other products. This is understandable within a CC's product range. Everyone has their preferences, which are then inevitably reflected in the models.
Unfortunately, however, there is also a self-similarity that extends beyond the boundaries of individual producers. In my opinion, this is because these models are produced using sliders only, without any fine-tuning through sculpting.
But that doesn't apply to you, as you prove time and again with your sculpting WIPs.
So: everything is fine (but I also really like ice cream
Hyxod
Karma: 6,521
Tue, Sep 30Yeah it was definitely not against her, im talking when people upload characters back to back and they almost look twins
Luxe Muse
I'm going to quit sculpting and just do sliders, no correctives, boom, make money @Hyxod
Pushee-Ri me too, there is nothing like ice cream!
Joking aside, I do like how some artists define an identity that can be seen across their figures, some of those are loved by everyone for their craft. But I do see the same things that you guys see. Most of the people who do that do not really care about their customers, nor do they have values. They just want an extra bit of money.
Karma: 5,051
Tue, Sep 30 I'm going to quit sculpting and just do sliders, no correctives, boom, make money @Hyxod Pushee-Ri me too, there is nothing like ice cream!
Joking aside, I do like how some artists define an identity that can be seen across their figures, some of those are loved by everyone for their craft. But I do see the same things that you guys see. Most of the people who do that do not really care about their customers, nor do they have values. They just want an extra bit of money.
Bobb
Karma: 785
Tue, Sep 30There was someone, a few years ago who made a series of characters for good old Vicky Four. I seem to remember that it was called the 'London' series? Every single character was quite unique and gorgeous. They also worked brilliantly with various expressions. I'll have to find them.
Bobb
Karma: 785
Tue, Sep 30Ok.....it was the Metropolitan collection by Danae. There where only a few but I bought most of them.
For me, London, Lyon and Dublin stand out.
For me, London, Lyon and Dublin stand out.
TechWorks
Karma: 1,062
Thu, Oct 02@Pushee-Ri
Sorry for the late reply. Yes, just images showing some expressions would be great. I didn't mean that character creators should have to include custom expressions.
Sorry for the late reply. Yes, just images showing some expressions would be great. I didn't mean that character creators should have to include custom expressions.
As some have mentioned, its a bit of a foggy area when it comes to DAZ. Expressions can look great on one character but not so good on another. Is there a perfect solution? I dont think so. However, there are a few things you can do: buy characters that come with custom expressions, mix and match different expressions until you get something acceptable, or use Face Control to create your own. Thats just my opinion.
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One thing with expressions on custom chatacters, never use the click presets, use the dials instead. And keep them dialed low, usually after 50% or less on some of them, they start looking cartoony.
One bit of a pain, a lot of expression sets don't even come with cards showing what it looks like, I ended up having to make my own for a lot of them. Time consuming on the front end, but saves a ton of time after they are made. I may have some OCD lol.
One bit of a pain, a lot of expression sets don't even come with cards showing what it looks like, I ended up having to make my own for a lot of them. Time consuming on the front end, but saves a ton of time after they are made. I may have some OCD lol.
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Luxe Muse
Karma: 5,051
Tue, Sep 30Yes, I certainly do this often! Additionally, many expression creators focus on a specific "bone" structure, recently one that is rather extreme (big poms, huge mouth).
Personally, if I purchase an expression set that, when I click it, does not apply the slider and leaves me with only the individual per-muscle morphs, I never use the entire set again. They simply waste your time on adjustments that you could otherwise make manually with greater precision.
Personally, if I purchase an expression set that, when I click it, does not apply the slider and leaves me with only the individual per-muscle morphs, I never use the entire set again. They simply waste your time on adjustments that you could otherwise make manually with greater precision.
TechWorks
Karma: 1,062
Thu, Oct 02@deathd
That's exactly what I do, too. Using the expression only partially dialed in seems to work best.
That's exactly what I do, too. Using the expression only partially dialed in seems to work best.
I see that a new character 'Starla' is previewed with a smile promo. She looks great smiling!
https://www.renderhub.com/nobqueen/starla-for-genesis-8-female
Just dropped it (her?) in my wishlist and will pick her (it?) up at the end of the month.
https://www.renderhub.com/nobqueen/starla-for-genesis-8-female
Just dropped it (her?) in my wishlist and will pick her (it?) up at the end of the month.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,470
Wed, Oct 01A great example of " it works even without model-specific facial expressions "
As mentioned above: it would be sufficient if, as in this example, a few standard facial expressions were shown. Thanks again, Bobb, for pointing that out
As mentioned above: it would be sufficient if, as in this example, a few standard facial expressions were shown. Thanks again, Bobb, for pointing that out
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,242
Sun, Oct 05Those are an excellent mix of promos, that help sell the character for sure.
A smile reveals a lot @Bobb Like something fishy with my Isa's lower lip, corrective morph 
fixing that
Like something fishy with my Isa's lower lip, corrective morph fixing that REPLY
! REPORT
Don't overlook eyebrows as they can be VERY expressive.
Take Emilia Clarke (Daenerys Targaryen) for example. Her eyebrows practically speak for themselves!
Take Emilia Clarke (Daenerys Targaryen) for example. Her eyebrows practically speak for themselves!
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TechWorks
Karma: 1,062
Thu, Oct 02For sure! And eyelashes. The right eyelashes make a huge difference to me.
The thread is about realistic models ... but the same applies to Toons, right?
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/76624/dear-mister-darcy
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/76624/dear-mister-darcy
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@ Pushee-Ri
Quote:
"I have to disagree here (at least in some cases): my Bakshee Freebie is very different from GF8... and every standard facial expression is hilarious."
Yup, those expressions actually look great.
It just contradicts all experiences I had, when creating expressions.
Quote:
"I have to disagree here (at least in some cases): my Bakshee Freebie is very different from GF8... and every standard facial expression is hilarious."
Yup, those expressions actually look great.
It just contradicts all experiences I had, when creating expressions.
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And now this thread is also in the gallery
Maybe we'll see even more beautiful and informative promo pictures soon
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/76772/sgm-aya-wip
Maybe we'll see even more beautiful and informative promo pictures soon
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/76772/sgm-aya-wip
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This reminds me of an old joke:
They have installed shaving machines in prison now.
How can this work? Everbody has a different physiognomy!
Well, the first two rounds, yes.
On a more serious note I think since there are so many different faces (face morphs) there can not be a one-for-all expression that works on all characters alike. It doesn't have to be a one-character-one-set-of expressions either, but it takes a lot of trying (of which a certain industry thrieves, too). Especially with smiles it's often hit or miss.
"In The Flesh" had an excellent Face shifter For G8F to (amongst other wonderful expressions) move brows Spock style (pulling up one middle eye brow) and other cool expression, however I have lost track where I got that from.
And there ist one not yet tested by me https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-9-facial-elasticity-morphs
They have installed shaving machines in prison now.
How can this work? Everbody has a different physiognomy!
Well, the first two rounds, yes.
On a more serious note I think since there are so many different faces (face morphs) there can not be a one-for-all expression that works on all characters alike. It doesn't have to be a one-character-one-set-of expressions either, but it takes a lot of trying (of which a certain industry thrieves, too). Especially with smiles it's often hit or miss.
"In The Flesh" had an excellent Face shifter For G8F to (amongst other wonderful expressions) move brows Spock style (pulling up one middle eye brow) and other cool expression, however I have lost track where I got that from.
And there ist one not yet tested by me https://www.daz3d.com/genesis-9-facial-elasticity-morphs
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,470
Sun, Oct 05Haha... I once had a similar idea with the working title IMPACT. But I gave up on it because the main area of application would have been VIOLENCE (which I'm not a big fan of).
Arrghhhhhhh. The Face shifter is a Freebie here at Renderhub!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://www.renderhub.com/intheflesh/faceshifter-for-genesis-8-female
https://www.renderhub.com/intheflesh/faceshifter-for-genesis-8-female
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