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GLBThings that make your DAZ product easier or harder to use
263Thread Activity
JackolanternSat, Nov 15
deathdFri, Nov 14
Bad2Wed, Nov 12
JackolanternTue, Nov 11
SweePTue, Nov 11
JackolanternTue, Nov 11
The art of making a product is distinct from the art from using a product, and it's not always obvious to one side what the other side appreciates or is annoyed by, so I wanted to list a non-exhaustive set of things that make a given product or product type easier or harder to use in composing a scene. This is not a callout post, and in the end, the creator of a product is the ultimate arbiter of what will be easy or hard to implement and if that effort is worth it in terms of sales or price point. These are just some random things that have popped up for me and which might not be obvious unless you've spent lots of time composing scenes with assets from different vendors.
Sets/buildings:
*) it's a low-level annoyance when a set/building/scenery is offset from the World Origin by a large amount. For lots of cases, there's not going to be a perfect answer here, but given that every character gets loaded to World Origin by default, it's nice when I load a set up and don't immediately have to move it just to see my character(s)
*) Using Groups for sets is GREAT! Do that! Ideally, have one group for the whole thing too, so that if I need to move the entire set, with cameras and lights, there's already an easy top-level group to apply the transforms to, but honestly, any time you include groups at all, I quietly make a mental note to buy more stuff from you, even if ultimately I end up adding a top-level group to pull it all together.
*) This one is harder because it will definitely create more work, so it's not like a "must" or anything, just something I always appreciate in sets: if you can offer ways to individually address walls and ceilings, that is *always* appreciated. Even if I'm not removing a wall so I can get the camera angle I want, being able to hide one during scene setup can make a tremendous difference, and the alternative is often to play games with textures to make a given subset of a building temporarily transparent, or to hide the entire building, work on some posing, and then putting the building back and checking to make sure you didn't go out of bounds while you couldn't see them.
*) A non-obvious thing that helps me with foot poses, especially on uneven terrain, is positioning the camera *under* the ground and look at how much of the foot or shoe is clipping through. This works great for sets where the ground is modeled as a solid with some real "height" to it so that I can position the camera "inside" it or when the floor/ground is a plane or the face of a polyhedron , but is much harder if the ground/floor is modeled as a thin strip. This is absolutely a nice to have and I'd never want someone to go back and revise a project for it, but it's the kind of thing that might influence early modeling choices.
Pose Sets:
*) Another one where the effort to do it might turn out to be too much, but where possible, it's really helpful when big coarse-grained orientation changes on a human figure are done at the figure level instead of the hip. There are absolutely times when a pose will *need* to add translation or rotation on both the figure overall and the hip, but any time you can minimize that, it makes your pose much easier to use as a starting point for manual tweaks
*) Relatedly, it's always nice to see poses that load *without* any translation. Obviously if the pose set is intended for a specific set or prop or whatever, then a "go to x" type pose is sensible, but otherwise, having a pose move a character to a new position can be pretty disruptive (yes, you can lock a character's translation/rotation/etc. to override that, so it's not like it's make-or-break, but it *is* an annoyance).
Textures:
*) UV unwrapping is a Dark Art, and optimizing for end-user tinkering here is probably gonna make your product screwy in other ways. But if possible, a little documentation around the aspect ratios of wall art, tv/computer screens, etc. is lovely. Don't kill yourself trying to get this, and don't go out of your way to try to get your UV islands to be user-friendly because good grief will that not end well, but any time I can find out what the aspect ratio of the 3D object is, it makes overriding the texture that much faster and easier.
Anybody have other ideas? Want to push back on anything here?
Sets/buildings:
*) it's a low-level annoyance when a set/building/scenery is offset from the World Origin by a large amount. For lots of cases, there's not going to be a perfect answer here, but given that every character gets loaded to World Origin by default, it's nice when I load a set up and don't immediately have to move it just to see my character(s)
*) Using Groups for sets is GREAT! Do that! Ideally, have one group for the whole thing too, so that if I need to move the entire set, with cameras and lights, there's already an easy top-level group to apply the transforms to, but honestly, any time you include groups at all, I quietly make a mental note to buy more stuff from you, even if ultimately I end up adding a top-level group to pull it all together.
*) This one is harder because it will definitely create more work, so it's not like a "must" or anything, just something I always appreciate in sets: if you can offer ways to individually address walls and ceilings, that is *always* appreciated. Even if I'm not removing a wall so I can get the camera angle I want, being able to hide one during scene setup can make a tremendous difference, and the alternative is often to play games with textures to make a given subset of a building temporarily transparent, or to hide the entire building, work on some posing, and then putting the building back and checking to make sure you didn't go out of bounds while you couldn't see them.
*) A non-obvious thing that helps me with foot poses, especially on uneven terrain, is positioning the camera *under* the ground and look at how much of the foot or shoe is clipping through. This works great for sets where the ground is modeled as a solid with some real "height" to it so that I can position the camera "inside" it or when the floor/ground is a plane or the face of a polyhedron , but is much harder if the ground/floor is modeled as a thin strip. This is absolutely a nice to have and I'd never want someone to go back and revise a project for it, but it's the kind of thing that might influence early modeling choices.
Pose Sets:
*) Another one where the effort to do it might turn out to be too much, but where possible, it's really helpful when big coarse-grained orientation changes on a human figure are done at the figure level instead of the hip. There are absolutely times when a pose will *need* to add translation or rotation on both the figure overall and the hip, but any time you can minimize that, it makes your pose much easier to use as a starting point for manual tweaks
*) Relatedly, it's always nice to see poses that load *without* any translation. Obviously if the pose set is intended for a specific set or prop or whatever, then a "go to x" type pose is sensible, but otherwise, having a pose move a character to a new position can be pretty disruptive (yes, you can lock a character's translation/rotation/etc. to override that, so it's not like it's make-or-break, but it *is* an annoyance).
Textures:
*) UV unwrapping is a Dark Art, and optimizing for end-user tinkering here is probably gonna make your product screwy in other ways. But if possible, a little documentation around the aspect ratios of wall art, tv/computer screens, etc. is lovely. Don't kill yourself trying to get this, and don't go out of your way to try to get your UV islands to be user-friendly because good grief will that not end well, but any time I can find out what the aspect ratio of the 3D object is, it makes overriding the texture that much faster and easier.
Anybody have other ideas? Want to push back on anything here?
! REPORT
I'm done with anything requiring D Force., Horrible feature. I was thinking it was because my old computer was 'special needs' but no.
Every time. EVERY SINGLE TIME I try to use D force, it results in really bad things happening.
Before, when I was using my old computer, Senor Slowpoke Rodriguez, Daz would lock up and go down like the Hindenburg.
But now I have the Daz program so buggered up I don't know what to do.
Every time. EVERY SINGLE TIME I try to use D force, it results in really bad things happening.
Before, when I was using my old computer, Senor Slowpoke Rodriguez, Daz would lock up and go down like the Hindenburg.
But now I have the Daz program so buggered up I don't know what to do.
REPLY
! REPORT
guy91600
Karma: 14,037
Sun, Nov 09Have you tried Optiplex's dynamic clothing? Yes, I know it's not ideal either.
There's a free one to test:
https://www.renderhub.com/guy91600/dynamic-ballet-dress-for-g8f
There's also DynCreator (free), which allows you to create dynamic clothing from obj files:
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/113516/dyncreator-for-dazstudio
There's a free one to test:
https://www.renderhub.com/guy91600/dynamic-ballet-dress-for-g8f
There's also DynCreator (free), which allows you to create dynamic clothing from obj files:
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/products/113516/dyncreator-for-dazstudio
Masterstroke
Karma: 4,028
Sun, Nov 09I agree on the frustration.
It's just a fact, that DAZ and Poser users are getting the bread crumbs, that fall from the big table.
Dynamic clothing has been sh!t in Poser and it is sh!t in DAZ Studio.
Same is true for render engines and hair simulations.
On the other hand, I won't pay subscriptions toany advanced software.
So I am stuck with DAZ Studio, like being held hostage in an abusive marriage until a mirracle Blender revalation will shine a light on me.
DAZ Studio has become a love-hate thing to me.
It's just a fact, that DAZ and Poser users are getting the bread crumbs, that fall from the big table.
Dynamic clothing has been sh!t in Poser and it is sh!t in DAZ Studio.
Same is true for render engines and hair simulations.
On the other hand, I won't pay subscriptions toany advanced software.
So I am stuck with DAZ Studio, like being held hostage in an abusive marriage until a mirracle Blender revalation will shine a light on me.
DAZ Studio has become a love-hate thing to me.
That's an interesting question. I'm already unsure about some very baic points: Do I like to cut products into many individual parts (morphs, textures, jacket and shirt separately?) in order to be able to install just what I need in an easy way? Or does it feel too much like money-making to sell a jacket separately from its "open zip" Morph? - Mhh.
On the other hand, I'm quite sure of two or three points. Short: Keep it simple.
Long version: Something that sounds like a small thing, but can produce a lot of annoyance, is the creation of materials and textures.
Before finalizing a product like this, take a step back and ask yourself: Does the customer really need all these maps?
When describing the product, consider: Are these X Maps not only linked but also genuinely useful? For example, do we really need monochromatic grayscale maps when a simple "20%" parameter adjustment could achieve the same effect? Or, worse, is there any need for a fully black map just to disable the metallicity parameter?
Listing numerous maps just to say "this product contains many different maps" can clutter the folder and confuse DS beginners.
Additionally, if you promote shaders with "4K/ 8K maps", ask yourself: Are they truly 4K/8K resolution, or are they just mirrored 1K maps scaled up?
Did I say annoyance? Some things are clearly regulated in DS: Textures belong in the Textures folder in the Runtime folder (not Texture). So, please, put them there too. There is no clear definition for documentation, nor is there a place. If you are in a creative mood, you can put them in "Documentation" or "General" or in "ReadMe"/ "ReadMe's/ReadMes/YourName_ReadMe" - and the customer has not only a product, but also another folder.
Again: Not a big deal, but unnecessarily complicated.
One last note, about dForce: Please think seriously about whether it is useful. Not only for the voluminous ball gown, but also - really? - for the skin-tight swimsuit, the socks or the 5mm short haircut.
On the other hand, I'm quite sure of two or three points. Short: Keep it simple.
Long version: Something that sounds like a small thing, but can produce a lot of annoyance, is the creation of materials and textures.
Before finalizing a product like this, take a step back and ask yourself: Does the customer really need all these maps?
When describing the product, consider: Are these X Maps not only linked but also genuinely useful? For example, do we really need monochromatic grayscale maps when a simple "20%" parameter adjustment could achieve the same effect? Or, worse, is there any need for a fully black map just to disable the metallicity parameter?
Listing numerous maps just to say "this product contains many different maps" can clutter the folder and confuse DS beginners.
Additionally, if you promote shaders with "4K/ 8K maps", ask yourself: Are they truly 4K/8K resolution, or are they just mirrored 1K maps scaled up?
Did I say annoyance? Some things are clearly regulated in DS: Textures belong in the Textures folder in the Runtime folder (not Texture). So, please, put them there too. There is no clear definition for documentation, nor is there a place. If you are in a creative mood, you can put them in "Documentation" or "General" or in "ReadMe"/ "ReadMe's/ReadMes/YourName_ReadMe" - and the customer has not only a product, but also another folder.
Again: Not a big deal, but unnecessarily complicated.
One last note, about dForce: Please think seriously about whether it is useful. Not only for the voluminous ball gown, but also - really? - for the skin-tight swimsuit, the socks or the 5mm short haircut.
REPLY
! REPORT
Bobb
Karma: 1,018
Tue, Nov 11You hit my sore points perfectly, I nominating you for Prime minister.
Also,
-doors had bloody well open.
-ego folders....ARGH! I won't remember, nor do I give a damn who made the item. I WILL remember the name of the item.
-dFarce is a joke. Fix it Daz or replace it with something that actually works correctly.
Also,
-doors had bloody well open.
-ego folders....ARGH! I won't remember, nor do I give a damn who made the item. I WILL remember the name of the item.
-dFarce is a joke. Fix it Daz or replace it with something that actually works correctly.
Bad2
Karma: 229
Wed, Nov 12Prime minister? Absolutely not! This must have been a horrible job since about 2000.
Ego folders: Far enough down in the folder hierarchy they are fine. Especially with assets that are produced a lot. Otherwise, the textures of all SciFi Corridors, for example, could overwrite each other
Ego folders: Far enough down in the folder hierarchy they are fine. Especially with assets that are produced a lot. Otherwise, the textures of all SciFi Corridors, for example, could overwrite each other
Don't care if it easy or hard to use, I can navigate around a scene and re light it if necessary.
Only thing that matters is the quality of the mesh, the amount of details, and if the textures look good when rendered in iray. And I can adjust those is necessary too.
Only thing that matters is the quality of the mesh, the amount of details, and if the textures look good when rendered in iray. And I can adjust those is necessary too.
REPLY
! REPORT
I build sets, I will try to keep those things in mind. I do most of those things. I make "control panels" that I hope is easy to navigate, in the parameter section that will control everything I have figured out how to make sliders/switches for. I never thought to add an under scene camera, will try to remember that one, as now that I think about it, I do find myself putting the perspective down there sometimes.
REPLY
! REPORT
For environments: If there are doors I expect them to be properly sized and proportioned, if not it's a pass.
For clothing and hair: I need to see the front, sides and back in promo images, if there are only images of the front, it's a pass.
For environments and clothing: Please for the sake of God make something original.
For clothing and hair: I need to see the front, sides and back in promo images, if there are only images of the front, it's a pass.
For environments and clothing: Please for the sake of God make something original.
REPLY
! REPORT
Further to the above.
I was looking yesterday for a carpenters workshop, none available so far as I can see, so I made my own.
Things I would expect to see in such a place:
Fairly tidy ( for safety reasons ) but quite likely some sawdust or wood chippings on the floor.
Tools suitable for woodwork ( some of these are available, some not )
A stack of timber of various types, different woods, some sheets of plywood or particle board.
Boxes of screws, tins of varnish, safety posters,
Also couldn't find anything that looks like clothes you might wear for this kind of work, the only mens overalls seem to be very baggy bib and braces.
A carpenter would likely wear an apron of some sort over ordinary work clothes.
Above are just one example of an environment and accessories. Think of the thousands of environments in the world. Why is DAZ limited to just a small number.
I was looking yesterday for a carpenters workshop, none available so far as I can see, so I made my own.
Things I would expect to see in such a place:
Fairly tidy ( for safety reasons ) but quite likely some sawdust or wood chippings on the floor.
Tools suitable for woodwork ( some of these are available, some not )
A stack of timber of various types, different woods, some sheets of plywood or particle board.
Boxes of screws, tins of varnish, safety posters,
Also couldn't find anything that looks like clothes you might wear for this kind of work, the only mens overalls seem to be very baggy bib and braces.
A carpenter would likely wear an apron of some sort over ordinary work clothes.
Above are just one example of an environment and accessories. Think of the thousands of environments in the world. Why is DAZ limited to just a small number.
REPLY
! REPORT
guy91600
Karma: 14,037
Tue, Nov 11@Jackolantern
workshop:
I have something that looks somewhat similar.
https://www.renderhub.com/guy91600/bundle-scupltor-for-g8
Also an apron for G8
https://www.renderhub.com/guy91600/sculptor-apron1-for-g8f-and-g8m
and Dorothee237 has some overalls in her store
for example
https://www.renderhub.com/dorothee237/gas-station-overall-long-sleeves-for-g8m
workshop:
I have something that looks somewhat similar.
https://www.renderhub.com/guy91600/bundle-scupltor-for-g8
Also an apron for G8
https://www.renderhub.com/guy91600/sculptor-apron1-for-g8f-and-g8m
and Dorothee237 has some overalls in her store
for example
https://www.renderhub.com/dorothee237/gas-station-overall-long-sleeves-for-g8m
SweeP
Karma: 40,188
Tue, Nov 11@Jackolantern , there's a carpenters workshop for download on
https://zeelproject.com/13642-carpenters-workshop.html
It's a bit small , but it has some tools with it .
I dont know if it's free or if you have to buy it .
https://zeelproject.com/13642-carpenters-workshop.html
It's a bit small , but it has some tools with it .
I dont know if it's free or if you have to buy it .
deathd
Karma: 1,547
Fri, Nov 14I am a carpenter, most of us really don't wear anything special. A pair of old jeans that's not gonna worry us if it gets ripped or stain spilled on it, a tshirt or flannel shirt.
Doors can be any size anyone wants to build it lol. I have seen some funky things in my time. Seen a front door that was 10 feet wide, because the owner liked to drive his harley into the house(no garage). I think you are probably thinking of using standard sizes though. Not sure if the sizes differ a lot between countries. The us and canada seems to be about the same for the most part. I try to build my houses like if I was building it in real life.
Doors can be any size anyone wants to build it lol. I have seen some funky things in my time. Seen a front door that was 10 feet wide, because the owner liked to drive his harley into the house(no garage). I think you are probably thinking of using standard sizes though. Not sure if the sizes differ a lot between countries. The us and canada seems to be about the same for the most part. I try to build my houses like if I was building it in real life.
Jackolantern
Karma: 175
Sat, Nov 15On the doors, sure there are unusual shaped ones like the one you mention but as you said there was a reason for it being 10 feet wide. If you put that door into an ordinary image of a house, with no explanation any one looking at the image will think 'that door's wrong', and maybe 'the artist doesn't care about his work' Some variation is fine, especially for more historic scenes where there was no standard, but if a door is 10 feet wide, or even 5 feet wide I feel it requires some reason for being like that. There was an environment set, I can't recall which one, where a bedroom door was 18 inches wide, I haven't seen one that narrow even in very old buildings. I guess a person could squeeze through.
Another environment suggestion.
Take a look at 'Baumgartner Restoration' on Youtube. Apart from the interesting descriptions of painstaking restoration of paintings, there are plenty of views of the workshop, equipment, and clothing worn.
Something like it would make a great environment for males and females, and also the 'hero' props would be paintings, so its simple geometry ( maybe a reasonable use of AI to create a few 'paintings'.
Would it sell?
Well it's an environment where the staff and visitors would be just one or two, so not like a football stadium that needs a huge number of figures.
It could be a visually interesting environment to put people into, where they can meet and chat and become friends, or maybe in a detective story one of the paintings is stolen, or maybe some new member of staff messes up a job.
Take a look at 'Baumgartner Restoration' on Youtube. Apart from the interesting descriptions of painstaking restoration of paintings, there are plenty of views of the workshop, equipment, and clothing worn.
Something like it would make a great environment for males and females, and also the 'hero' props would be paintings, so its simple geometry ( maybe a reasonable use of AI to create a few 'paintings'.
Would it sell?
Well it's an environment where the staff and visitors would be just one or two, so not like a football stadium that needs a huge number of figures.
It could be a visually interesting environment to put people into, where they can meet and chat and become friends, or maybe in a detective story one of the paintings is stolen, or maybe some new member of staff messes up a job.
REPLY
! REPORT
