From C(ircle) to C(lothing)
150Thread Activity
Pushee-RiThu, Jan 22
Pushee-RiMon, Jan 19
TenserknotMon, Jan 19
Pushee-RiMon, Jan 19
BobbMon, Jan 19
ExcessiveMon, Jan 19
Many of you use MD or Clo.
These are not only great tools when it comes to draping, but also when it comes to details such as hems, pockets, decorative trims, etc.
Unfortunately, I am
a) too stupid to understand MD. Despite several attempts (with different email addresses), I have never, ever understood the thing with the sewing patterns. Honestly!
b) too extreme when it comes to dForce (you should see my dForce stuff from the adult domain
Therefore, poor Pushee has no choice but to continue moving vertices. I would like to show you what that looks like.
I often start with a 16-vertex circle, which I extrude and add a few edge loops to until I have something resembling a tin can with arms in front of me. For tight-fitting 3D clothing, I like to use ShrinkWrap Modifier (Blender) before sculpting - however, loose-fitting clothing only works with sculpting.
I gradually refine the 3D object until it meets my expectations (well... sometimes I throw my expectations out the window and just go with what I see in front of me
Then a little UV seaming and UV unwrapping... and the project is finished (in this case, Nightie 89).
Unfortunately, this is always followed by the tedious work: testing, weight maps, DAZ UI, documentation, packing, promotions, etc. Honestly, I sometimes feel like I spend more time on the latter than on actually creating the 3D object.
These are not only great tools when it comes to draping, but also when it comes to details such as hems, pockets, decorative trims, etc.
Unfortunately, I am
a) too stupid to understand MD. Despite several attempts (with different email addresses), I have never, ever understood the thing with the sewing patterns. Honestly!
b) too extreme when it comes to dForce (you should see my dForce stuff from the adult domain
Therefore, poor Pushee has no choice but to continue moving vertices. I would like to show you what that looks like.
I often start with a 16-vertex circle, which I extrude and add a few edge loops to until I have something resembling a tin can with arms in front of me. For tight-fitting 3D clothing, I like to use ShrinkWrap Modifier (Blender) before sculpting - however, loose-fitting clothing only works with sculpting.
I gradually refine the 3D object until it meets my expectations (well... sometimes I throw my expectations out the window and just go with what I see in front of me
Then a little UV seaming and UV unwrapping... and the project is finished (in this case, Nightie 89).
Unfortunately, this is always followed by the tedious work: testing, weight maps, DAZ UI, documentation, packing, promotions, etc. Honestly, I sometimes feel like I spend more time on the latter than on actually creating the 3D object.
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Thank you for sharing! It's neat to see how things are made. Maybe others could share workflows using the other tools to show the different processes?
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 41,768
Fri, Jan 02Thanks for stopping by and your kind comment 
Yes, I would also love to see how others do it. Whether it's MD/CLO (the tools with the cutting patterns) or, for example, Zbrush, Modo, or simply a different approach in Blender.
When it comes to characters and their creation, Luxe Muse's WIPs are very detailed and informative:
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/14056/luxe-amelia-wip
Yes, I would also love to see how others do it. Whether it's MD/CLO (the tools with the cutting patterns) or, for example, Zbrush, Modo, or simply a different approach in Blender.
When it comes to characters and their creation, Luxe Muse's WIPs are very detailed and informative:
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/14056/luxe-amelia-wip
I do things the very old person boomer way with poly by poly modeling for the lowpoly form with a subdivision modifier while working and then just finalize the subdivision, for dynamics I don't cut in a lot of detail on the mesh any more because it makes it a lot less fun to simulate, although I still do for regular conformers. I don't do a lot of detail because frankly it's a lot of extra work and I'm lazy :3
I do use the sculpting tools for shaping and fitting, just pretty much only as vertex modeling tools.
I do use the sculpting tools for shaping and fitting, just pretty much only as vertex modeling tools.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 41,768
Fri, Jan 02Thanks for this insight
Poly by Poly has (if I interpret this correctly) certain advantages over a closed shell like my " tin can ". I worked with it at the very beginning, triggered by a tutorial. But then my wacky ideas with slipping and slipable clothing came along... and this works best with closed (in the sense of enveloping) objects.
Nevertheless, should I ever recover from my dForce/slipable " trauma ", I will endeavor to consider your approach in addition to my own vertice circles
Poly by Poly has (if I interpret this correctly) certain advantages over a closed shell like my " tin can ". I worked with it at the very beginning, triggered by a tutorial. But then my wacky ideas with slipping and slipable clothing came along... and this works best with closed (in the sense of enveloping) objects.
Nevertheless, should I ever recover from my dForce/slipable " trauma ", I will endeavor to consider your approach in addition to my own vertice circles
Excessive
Karma: 11,321
Fri, Jan 02you really shouldn't, modelers have largely abandoned that old method for good reason - the tools are just better these days and there's no reason you shouldn't stick with the method that gets good results. I have stayed with this method mostly because I have a full license for Cinema 4D Studio R18 and I'm pretty comfortable with it for what I do. The big advantage for me is familiarity and a predictable export/import process going both ways but my tools were released in 2016 and there's some features like baking and retoplogizing that it just doesn't do well at all. At some point I will have a desire to do something that will piss me off bad enough to make me finally grow up and learn Blender
Excessive
Karma: 11,321
Fri, Jan 02I mean, I've been hobby modeling for a long time and I am very aware my approach to doing a lot of stuff is terrible by industry standards, the sample garment you did for this post for example is something that would take me probably many times longer to do and get comparable results.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 41,768
Fri, Jan 02For some projects, however, your approach with polygons (if I interpret it correctly) is better. For example, I like the work of RumenD (I'm not into bondage and stuff, but the 3D objects are really good, judging by the promos).
https://www.renderhub.com/rumend/profile
Without your reminder (and a corresponding idea on my part), I would definitely have started with vertix circles... and given up after the third attempt at the latest
https://www.renderhub.com/rumend/profile
Without your reminder (and a corresponding idea on my part), I would definitely have started with vertix circles... and given up after the third attempt at the latest
I love this top! My girls saw it and started whining for me to get it for them.
Stepping back into reality (yuck!)....might it be possible to collaborate with someone who's good at doing the stuff you're having trouble with? I know of several creators who do just that and they both benefit.
Stepping back into reality (yuck!)....might it be possible to collaborate with someone who's good at doing the stuff you're having trouble with? I know of several creators who do just that and they both benefit.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 41,768
Fri, Jan 02Collaboration is always beneficial - unless your counterpart is Pushee-Ri (or whatever my name is
Honestly, I'm not just a misanthropic oddball, but sometimes I'm just plain bananas. For this reason alone, working with me is... um... somewhat complicated
I'm also quite happy with my Slipables and love trying them out with different poses and settings. Unfortunately, this would hardly work with items from MD/CLO.
Nevertheless, thank you for your tip and kind comment
Honestly, I'm not just a misanthropic oddball, but sometimes I'm just plain bananas. For this reason alone, working with me is... um... somewhat complicated
I'm also quite happy with my Slipables and love trying them out with different poses and settings. Unfortunately, this would hardly work with items from MD/CLO.
Nevertheless, thank you for your tip and kind comment
guy91600
Karma: 15,427
Fri, Jan 02Do you think you have to be "normal" to use Hexagon, this free and obsolete tool that hasn't been updated since February 2018, which I've been using for almost 20 years without making the effort to switch to a more stable tool?
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 41,768
Fri, Jan 02@Guy:
" A tool is a tool is a tool is a tool "
(freely quoted from Gertrude Stein)
So (in my opinion) it doesn't matter what tool you use, as long as you're comfortable with it and enjoy using it. For example, in addition to Gimp, I use the legendary PhotoShop CS2 for image editing and Proton (circa 1999) for programming. So - everything's fine
My comment about my " I Bananas " referred to the topic of " collaboration ". For various reasons, I'm not a team player... and sometimes I even find it difficult to work with myself
" A tool is a tool is a tool is a tool "
(freely quoted from Gertrude Stein)
So (in my opinion) it doesn't matter what tool you use, as long as you're comfortable with it and enjoy using it. For example, in addition to Gimp, I use the legendary PhotoShop CS2 for image editing and Proton (circa 1999) for programming. So - everything's fine
My comment about my " I Bananas " referred to the topic of " collaboration ". For various reasons, I'm not a team player... and sometimes I even find it difficult to work with myself
While searching for an example of working with polygons (see above), I came across this funny clip. It shows a different method in Blender (i.e., outside of MD/CLO) for creating 3D clothing. I'm not entirely sure if the Garment Tool (by Bartosz Styperek) is being used. As far as I remember, I did something similar without Bartosz's tool. But I didn't like itI prefer to stick with my vertex circles
Enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yudSTkXjGoA
Enjoy
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/yudSTkXjGoA
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Here is another example of circles, Bezier curves, and spheres (I prefer - and love - working with organic shapes). It's still at a very early stage... and that allows me to reveal another Pushee secret: I have no idea myself what the finished object (if it gets finished) will look like
Honestly, at least 50% of my projects come about this way. I do have a very rudimentary idea... but that's about it In this case, I imagine something in the area of the ears that is reminiscent of the movie robots from the 50s/60s (or what Bender wears on his head).
Everything else comes from trying things out, experimenting, discarding ideas... and lots and lots of circles and spheres
Enjoy, stay tuned... and keep your fingers crossed for me
Honestly, at least 50% of my projects come about this way. I do have a very rudimentary idea... but that's about it
In this case, I imagine something in the area of the ears that is reminiscent of the movie robots from the 50s/60s (or what Bender wears on his head).Everything else comes from trying things out, experimenting, discarding ideas... and lots and lots of circles and spheres
Enjoy, stay tuned... and keep your fingers crossed for me
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Quote:
"a) too stupid to understand MD. Despite several attempts (with different email addresses), I have never, ever understood the thing with the sewing patterns. Honestly!"
Who cares of MD.
You get obviously something (nice) done in Blender, which you have my full respect.
I am completely unable to do anything in Blender. Blender remains an enigma to me. It still apears to be a "Sheldon Cooper interface" despite all its improvements towards usability.
"a) too stupid to understand MD. Despite several attempts (with different email addresses), I have never, ever understood the thing with the sewing patterns. Honestly!"
Who cares of MD.
You get obviously something (nice) done in Blender, which you have my full respect.
I am completely unable to do anything in Blender. Blender remains an enigma to me. It still apears to be a "Sheldon Cooper interface" despite all its improvements towards usability.
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Masterstroke
Karma: 4,143
Mon, Jan 19Well, yeah. It is a powerful tool, that can do a lot, but:
-I once had a test version, when it first came out. So I do understand the UI struggle.
-It is subscription software, so I really give MD the finger.
-I once had a test version, when it first came out. So I do understand the UI struggle.
-It is subscription software, so I really give MD the finger.
Excessive
Karma: 11,321
Mon, Jan 19if you can get through the hard shell that surrounds Blender - and yeah I admit it isn't easy to get going with - it can do every damn thing, it's super powerful and flexible. I don't use it myself because I have a lot of habits sunk into my legit license of Cinema 4D but that is about 10 years old now and I have no chance of ever having enough cash to afford updating it (same goes for ever affording MD), one of these days I'm going to make myself shift over to Blender.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 41,768
Mon, Jan 19" Who cares of MD "
There are many (very many) things that are much easier to do in MD/CLO than in 3D programs like Blender. I just didn't get behind the concept of sewing patterns even though I tried it often and eagerly. As I said above: I prefer to work organically (i.e., sculpting and my beloved circles
@guy:
If you know of a nice, short video that gives curious people an insight into MD/CLO, I would be delighted if you could post it here as a " Post Your Comment." I have already searched for one myself, but mostly only found pimply-faced, self-obsessed windbags who talk more about themselves than about MD.
There are many (very many) things that are much easier to do in MD/CLO than in 3D programs like Blender. I just didn't get behind the concept of sewing patterns even though I tried it often and eagerly. As I said above: I prefer to work organically (i.e., sculpting and my beloved circles
@guy:
If you know of a nice, short video that gives curious people an insight into MD/CLO, I would be delighted if you could post it here as a " Post Your Comment." I have already searched for one myself, but mostly only found pimply-faced, self-obsessed windbags who talk more about themselves than about MD.
I'm a Blender user BUT.....I'm not one of those hysterically obsessive fanboys/girls who live in it. I use it fairly often but not enough to memorize the millions of shortcuts. I arrange and use it in the same manner I do all my other graphics programs, especially the Adobe stuff (Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere, and After Effects).
1) Don't bother trying to memorize shortcuts. Stick with a minimized GUI.
2) I use my right hand monitor (the good one) for the workspace. No pallets or other clutter.
3) The left hand one (the cheapo one) is where I put all my pallets AND I arrange them similarly in all programs. Premiere doesn't lend itself to that but I can sorta do it.
I'll have the tool pallet ALWAYS stuck right in the upper right hand corner of the left hand monitor. Next (moving left) I'll have assets or layers. Then there's properties. This continues according to a system that YOU feel makes sense. Even Studio can be arranged in this manner.
While shortcuts may be faster, unless you use it constantly you'll never remember them. Having the common tools always in the same spot means you never have to hunt for stuff. I rarely learn a new tool or plugin unless I can see that I'll use it a lot. The older, simpler ways may be a bit slower but you know them backwards and can use them without stumbling around trying to learn something from a damn tutorial that moves waaaaay too fast. The last thing I added to my tools was a gizmo that makes new edges (vertices) around edges. It's pretty simple to use and I use it often.
This was a habit I learned when working professionally in graphics. We had the regular Adobe stuff, but also used a few proprietary programs from equipment suppliers (airborne cameras) that changed frequently. Keeping the 'look' or arrangements mostly the same meant that it was easier to make that mental switch when you went from one program to another in your workflow.
1) Don't bother trying to memorize shortcuts. Stick with a minimized GUI.
2) I use my right hand monitor (the good one) for the workspace. No pallets or other clutter.
3) The left hand one (the cheapo one) is where I put all my pallets AND I arrange them similarly in all programs. Premiere doesn't lend itself to that but I can sorta do it.
I'll have the tool pallet ALWAYS stuck right in the upper right hand corner of the left hand monitor. Next (moving left) I'll have assets or layers. Then there's properties. This continues according to a system that YOU feel makes sense. Even Studio can be arranged in this manner.
While shortcuts may be faster, unless you use it constantly you'll never remember them. Having the common tools always in the same spot means you never have to hunt for stuff. I rarely learn a new tool or plugin unless I can see that I'll use it a lot. The older, simpler ways may be a bit slower but you know them backwards and can use them without stumbling around trying to learn something from a damn tutorial that moves waaaaay too fast. The last thing I added to my tools was a gizmo that makes new edges (vertices) around edges. It's pretty simple to use and I use it often.
This was a habit I learned when working professionally in graphics. We had the regular Adobe stuff, but also used a few proprietary programs from equipment suppliers (airborne cameras) that changed frequently. Keeping the 'look' or arrangements mostly the same meant that it was easier to make that mental switch when you went from one program to another in your workflow.
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A couple tutorials and the stitching in MD becomes second nature, and brilliant. If you've done any kind of real world sewing, MD basically emulate that. and it does it well.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 41,768
Mon, Jan 19Hahaha... I once sewed myself a pair of skin-tight pants. When I bent over, accompanied by a tearing sound, it became obvious that I was wearing pink knickers
This has probably conditioned me for all time, so that I can no longer do anything with sewing patterns
But yeah - you're right: there's nothing better than MD/CLO for bringing sewing into the 3D world
This has probably conditioned me for all time, so that I can no longer do anything with sewing patterns
But yeah - you're right: there's nothing better than MD/CLO for bringing sewing into the 3D world
So - either there are incredibly important secrets at MD/CLO that need to be guarded like a dragon's treasure... or I'm just the biggest blabbermouth in the 3D universe
(I'm guessing it's the latter
Since no MD/CLO user has posted a video or screenshots, I searched again myself.
I like kwerkx's idea (see above) of simply showing a few different techniques.
This is a time-lapse video with the usual flickering and a plot that is difficult to follow. So here is a brief explanation:
At the beginning (before the video starts or if you pause at 0.38), you can see what makes MD/CLO so special and unique: the sewing patterns.
As in real tailoring, the clothing is divided into its basic pieces (sewing patterns) and sewn together by the program. And as in real life, wedges and gussets (sorry, I don't know the correct tailoring terms) can be incorporated to change the fit and look. In addition, MD/CLO can also be used to add numerous details such as pockets, ruffles, pleats, or other appliqués (which is very difficult in regular 3D programs such as Blender, etc.).
This allows MD/CLO to be used to create very complex 3D garments.
Enjoy
(I'm guessing it's the latter
Since no MD/CLO user has posted a video or screenshots, I searched again myself.
I like kwerkx's idea (see above) of simply showing a few different techniques.
This is a time-lapse video with the usual flickering and a plot that is difficult to follow. So here is a brief explanation:
At the beginning (before the video starts or if you pause at 0.38), you can see what makes MD/CLO so special and unique: the sewing patterns.
As in real tailoring, the clothing is divided into its basic pieces (sewing patterns) and sewn together by the program. And as in real life, wedges and gussets (sorry, I don't know the correct tailoring terms) can be incorporated to change the fit and look. In addition, MD/CLO can also be used to add numerous details such as pockets, ruffles, pleats, or other appliqués (which is very difficult in regular 3D programs such as Blender, etc.).
This allows MD/CLO to be used to create very complex 3D garments.
Enjoy
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