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GLBPost work, AI upscaling in Post, and 3D in the future
187Thread Activity
kwerkxSun, Apr 12
PawngameSat, Apr 11
PawngameSat, Apr 11
kwerkxSat, Apr 11
kwerkxSat, Apr 11
AnabranSat, Apr 11
"AI" we all have feelings, mine briefly: art theft is bad and so is selling AI slop.. the rest I will deal with on a case by case basis.
I got to thinking about DAZ rendering, post work, "AI", and growing hardware costs. After a "talk" with ChatGPT, I stumbled on a (Blender / industry) workflow: Mid to Low resolution render in DAZ/Blender, then de-noise, and finish with "data aware" upscaling. The idea being (contrary to rumor) 3D rendering is not dead as even a low resolution render provides light (bounces and reflections) and physically "correct" geometry that a "data aware AI" can upscale to a higher resolution in post. With upscaling, the initial render can be done with lower specification machines and the emphasis on heavy shaders (G9) could be reduced.
This is not generative AI and I am not talking about image modifications (smiles, backgrounds etc).. only "data aware AI" upscaling of an original DAZ, Blender, etc. render. So where is the line? I know some are adamant that all AI is bad; but is all post work bad? Would upscaling be an acceptable use of "AI"?
I got to thinking about DAZ rendering, post work, "AI", and growing hardware costs. After a "talk" with ChatGPT, I stumbled on a (Blender / industry) workflow: Mid to Low resolution render in DAZ/Blender, then de-noise, and finish with "data aware" upscaling. The idea being (contrary to rumor) 3D rendering is not dead as even a low resolution render provides light (bounces and reflections) and physically "correct" geometry that a "data aware AI" can upscale to a higher resolution in post. With upscaling, the initial render can be done with lower specification machines and the emphasis on heavy shaders (G9) could be reduced.
This is not generative AI and I am not talking about image modifications (smiles, backgrounds etc).. only "data aware AI" upscaling of an original DAZ, Blender, etc. render. So where is the line? I know some are adamant that all AI is bad; but is all post work bad? Would upscaling be an acceptable use of "AI"?
! REPORT
Just my 2 cents:
As a pure 3D artist (i.e., not a producer), everyone has to decide for themselves. Personally, if I were to use it (which I don't), I would compare the results before and after upscaling. If both images were identical (one just larger), I would post it. But if there were noticeable differences, I would give it serious thought.
Producer: In my opinion, something like that would be a no-go for producers (i.e., the promotional images for the projects)
As a pure 3D artist (i.e., not a producer), everyone has to decide for themselves. Personally, if I were to use it (which I don't), I would compare the results before and after upscaling. If both images were identical (one just larger), I would post it. But if there were noticeable differences, I would give it serious thought.
Producer: In my opinion, something like that would be a no-go for producers (i.e., the promotional images for the projects)
REPLY
! REPORT
kwerkx
Karma: 7,788
Sat, Apr 11Absolutely! Testing, evaluating, and making up our own minds is (in my opinion) one of the most. important freedoms we have. And in regards to "noticeable differences".. yes, it would be critical that the AI upscaler not changes geometry, reflection, or illumination in an image.. just increase the resolution.
Quote:I got to thinking about DAZ rendering, post work, "AI", and growing hardware costs. After a "talk" with ChatGPT, I stumbled on a (Blender / industry) workflow: Mid to Low resolution render in DAZ/Blender,
Why?
The latest versions of Daz studio and sadly, even Blender, already require a Modern NVIDIA GPU.
Daz studio is effectively useless without such a GPU
why not Just be patient and render your originals from Daz or Blender at 4K etc?
Why?
The latest versions of Daz studio and sadly, even Blender, already require a Modern NVIDIA GPU.
Daz studio is effectively useless without such a GPU
why not Just be patient and render your originals from Daz or Blender at 4K etc?
REPLY
! REPORT
kwerkx
Karma: 7,788
Sat, Apr 11"Why?" Costs.
What we can render is linked to VRAM and VRAM plus scene design dictates the amount of RAM we need (1:1 to 2:1 RAM:VRAM) to stage the data before rendering. The trend towards photo-realism fuels the need for lots of VRAM (and RAM) with heavy textures. So, if "AI" can read the geometry and light data in a render and upscale the details in post, then we could reduce the hardware (and model texture and time) requirements for our render machine.
What we can render is linked to VRAM and VRAM plus scene design dictates the amount of RAM we need (1:1 to 2:1 RAM:VRAM) to stage the data before rendering. The trend towards photo-realism fuels the need for lots of VRAM (and RAM) with heavy textures. So, if "AI" can read the geometry and light data in a render and upscale the details in post, then we could reduce the hardware (and model texture and time) requirements for our render machine.
My 2 yen:
- As far as I know, AI can't really reproduce IES or true 32-bit exposure from a single image. It's mostly estimation-very good estimation, but still guessing. If someone proves otherwise, I'd be interested.
- For fast renders, post denoising already works great-whether in Blender, Daz, or NVIDIA tools. Rendering at 4K and downscaling to 2K is still a solid, simple approach. No AI needed there.
- A poorly optimized scene will just choke your system-CPU first, then VRAM bottlenecks (Unity, I'm looking at you…). Optimizing the scene upfront is almost always the better investment but i also understand some creators, including me, don't worry too much about optimizing a scene asset.
- Honestly, instead of spending time thinking about how AI affects artists, I'd rather use that time to improve my 3D skills.
AI is definitely coming, and it will replace a lot of jobs. There's not much point arguing about that. So for now, I think it's better to just keep creating while we can. The tide is rising, and it will not turn back, many boats will be carried away. Until then, we create because that is what we are, no matter the tools, as long as a shred of ourselves live in our creations.
Raising my highglass to RenderHub creators, cheers! Have a great week-end (yes it's a bit early to start drinking, but it's been a hell of a week... ><)
- As far as I know, AI can't really reproduce IES or true 32-bit exposure from a single image. It's mostly estimation-very good estimation, but still guessing. If someone proves otherwise, I'd be interested.
- For fast renders, post denoising already works great-whether in Blender, Daz, or NVIDIA tools. Rendering at 4K and downscaling to 2K is still a solid, simple approach. No AI needed there.
- A poorly optimized scene will just choke your system-CPU first, then VRAM bottlenecks (Unity, I'm looking at you…). Optimizing the scene upfront is almost always the better investment but i also understand some creators, including me, don't worry too much about optimizing a scene asset.
- Honestly, instead of spending time thinking about how AI affects artists, I'd rather use that time to improve my 3D skills.
AI is definitely coming, and it will replace a lot of jobs. There's not much point arguing about that. So for now, I think it's better to just keep creating while we can. The tide is rising, and it will not turn back, many boats will be carried away. Until then, we create because that is what we are, no matter the tools, as long as a shred of ourselves live in our creations.
Raising my highglass to RenderHub creators, cheers! Have a great week-end (yes it's a bit early to start drinking, but it's been a hell of a week... ><)
REPLY
! REPORT
kwerkx
Karma: 7,788
Sat, Apr 11Cheers!
IMO we will still be creating 3d art (DAZ, Blender, Poser etc) for some time to come. My current curiosity is optimizing what is good out of the two tools (DAZ for creating, "AI" upscale for sharpening) and getting a feel if all or just some post work is frowned upon...
... When you say "Optimizing the scene", I've done things like remove out of site objects, hide objects, opening rooms to allow light to "escape", and some light retexturing (MMX's space saving shaders for example). I'm curious to know if you have better ways for optimize a scene.
IMO we will still be creating 3d art (DAZ, Blender, Poser etc) for some time to come. My current curiosity is optimizing what is good out of the two tools (DAZ for creating, "AI" upscale for sharpening) and getting a feel if all or just some post work is frowned upon...
... When you say "Optimizing the scene", I've done things like remove out of site objects, hide objects, opening rooms to allow light to "escape", and some light retexturing (MMX's space saving shaders for example). I'm curious to know if you have better ways for optimize a scene.
Pawngame
Karma: 34,242
Sat, Apr 11Using a camera for starters, it always speeds up rendering.
Using scene optimizer from daz can help a lot
Disable SSS can also help depending on the context
Using IES profiles for emissive lights is the biggest game changer and helps a ton, but you have to tweak them a bit.
I'll write a tutorial about it in a few minutes.
Using scene optimizer from daz can help a lot
Disable SSS can also help depending on the context
Using IES profiles for emissive lights is the biggest game changer and helps a ton, but you have to tweak them a bit.
I'll write a tutorial about it in a few minutes.
kwerkx
Karma: 7,788
Sun, Apr 12Wow! Thank you! I'm going to mess with SSS here shortly (have some new characters to test render) and will comment on IES on your thread.
Quote:Why?" Costs.
What we can render is linked to VRAM and VRAM plus scene design dictates the amount of RAM we need (1:1 to 2:1 RAM:VRAM) to stage the data before rendering.
Yes, I understand how VRAM works.
I am just curious how you have been creating high quality renders out of DAZ studio with your current set up.
Assuming you already creating Daz Iray renders of acceptable quality with your current hardware set up so your costs for rendering should be fixed at this point.
At any rate, there are some offline local install AI upscalers that you can buy.
I personally use the AI upscaler by Topaz gigapixel AI, running it over on my older intel imac.
I'm rendering all of the panel art, for my current graphic novel ,over at a site called Mage.space,
However I use Elon musks grok. AI to make major edits to my original panel art for finalization, such as adding a holographic interface to this image,to make it appear as though this bounty. Hunter, is under surveillance.
But for some system limitation, reasons editing an existing image with grock outputs a maximum size of about
1400x700 pixels,
requiring me to rescale any grok edited panels back up to a resolution that's going to be suitable for printing this book when it's finished,( which will be very soon considering how fast this production is going.)
What we can render is linked to VRAM and VRAM plus scene design dictates the amount of RAM we need (1:1 to 2:1 RAM:VRAM) to stage the data before rendering.
Yes, I understand how VRAM works.
I am just curious how you have been creating high quality renders out of DAZ studio with your current set up.
Assuming you already creating Daz Iray renders of acceptable quality with your current hardware set up so your costs for rendering should be fixed at this point.
At any rate, there are some offline local install AI upscalers that you can buy.
I personally use the AI upscaler by Topaz gigapixel AI, running it over on my older intel imac.
I'm rendering all of the panel art, for my current graphic novel ,over at a site called Mage.space,
However I use Elon musks grok. AI to make major edits to my original panel art for finalization, such as adding a holographic interface to this image,to make it appear as though this bounty. Hunter, is under surveillance.
But for some system limitation, reasons editing an existing image with grock outputs a maximum size of about
1400x700 pixels,
requiring me to rescale any grok edited panels back up to a resolution that's going to be suitable for printing this book when it's finished,( which will be very soon considering how fast this production is going.)
REPLY
! REPORT
kwerkx
Karma: 7,788
Sat, Apr 11First of all.. that's a great looking image 
I get a CCG vibe and IMO it would look cool in a game too, nice work!
Luckily, my rig was assembled before the memory price spikes. So, when I render, I take my time and let the GPU do the work. Still, the future looks.. expensive and apart from a general tech curiosity, I am curious about what my options will be. ChatGPT mentioned Topaz as well and the fact that it has an offline mode is a bonus, thank you for mentioning it.
I get a CCG vibe and IMO it would look cool in a game too, nice work!Luckily, my rig was assembled before the memory price spikes. So, when I render, I take my time and let the GPU do the work. Still, the future looks.. expensive and apart from a general tech curiosity, I am curious about what my options will be. ChatGPT mentioned Topaz as well and the fact that it has an offline mode is a bonus, thank you for mentioning it.