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204Thread Activity
KuraiKya5 Hours ago
Pushee-Ri6 Hours ago
Pushee-Ri6 Hours ago
Pushee-Ri6 Hours ago
Pushee-Ri7 Hours ago
dirtrider0015 Hours ago
Recently, we noticed (once again) the deafening silence in the gallery comments section. So I figured that if not in the gallery, then at least in the forum, I'd kick off a little casual chatter ... and what better way to do that than by spilling a few secrets 
I'll get straight to the point (below the hyphens
-----------------------------------------------------------
OK - it's not exactly a big DAZ secret, but I really enjoy working with 'Dome and Scene'. Instead of the disastrous DAZ ruins (HDR), I use an HDR that starts with 'Kloofendal..'. It's a whopping 78 MB… but for quite a few images, I really only used the HDR (and no additional spotlights). I posted an example without additional spotlights in the gallery today:
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/95232/the-art-of-meditation
The HDR is here:
https://polyhaven.com/a/kloofendal_48d_partly_cloudy_puresky
I like to play around with the tone mapping sliders. One of the first steps is always to reduce the gamma value from 2.20 to a value between 1.90 and 2.00. Another useful trick is to reduce the Environment Intensity (depending on the scene and the desired effect), but then set the 'cm factor' to 1.3 or higher (Tone Mapping). You'll need to experiment to see what visual effect you want to / can achieve.
OK - there's more to talk about... but I want to leave something for you
I'll get straight to the point (below the hyphens
-----------------------------------------------------------
OK - it's not exactly a big DAZ secret, but I really enjoy working with 'Dome and Scene'. Instead of the disastrous DAZ ruins (HDR), I use an HDR that starts with 'Kloofendal..'. It's a whopping 78 MB… but for quite a few images, I really only used the HDR (and no additional spotlights). I posted an example without additional spotlights in the gallery today:
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/95232/the-art-of-meditation
The HDR is here:
https://polyhaven.com/a/kloofendal_48d_partly_cloudy_puresky
I like to play around with the tone mapping sliders. One of the first steps is always to reduce the gamma value from 2.20 to a value between 1.90 and 2.00. Another useful trick is to reduce the Environment Intensity (depending on the scene and the desired effect), but then set the 'cm factor' to 1.3 or higher (Tone Mapping). You'll need to experiment to see what visual effect you want to / can achieve.
OK - there's more to talk about... but I want to leave something for you
! REPORT
For me too, Polyhaven is the source of my light, to which I add some ghost lights and some spotlights based on the scene I have studied.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
Wed, Jun 03Yeah, Polyhaven is a good source for HDRs. That said, the quality is all over the place - you get everything from 'Yeah' to 'WTF.' I've had some HDRs from there that disappeared from my hard drive faster than they got there
Polyhaven is a great resource for lighting and backgrounds.
Kloonfendal is an excellent HDRI for partly cloudy outdoor lighting.
I too like to toy with exterior lighting, though I am no master by any account. Many sourced from Polyhaven need to be reduced in Intemsity, and I too run the cm2 at 1.3 or thereabouts depending on requirements. Sometimes dropping the gamma can increase the richness of the textures while reducing the appearance of the overall exposure.
EXRs are also nice as they have their light source for more dramatic 'through the window' effects and shadows.
Orestes and Flink's are great sources for dramatic skies.
Kloonfendal is an excellent HDRI for partly cloudy outdoor lighting.
I too like to toy with exterior lighting, though I am no master by any account. Many sourced from Polyhaven need to be reduced in Intemsity, and I too run the cm2 at 1.3 or thereabouts depending on requirements. Sometimes dropping the gamma can increase the richness of the textures while reducing the appearance of the overall exposure.
EXRs are also nice as they have their light source for more dramatic 'through the window' effects and shadows.
Orestes and Flink's are great sources for dramatic skies.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
Wed, Jun 03'Kloonfendal is an excellent HDRI for partly cloudy outdoor lighting.'
I even use it for my pseudo-indoor scenes
Thanks for the EXR tip! I've sometimes wondered where those impressive lighting effects come from. That said, I mainly do promotional work... and I like to show my projects in the best light (or not
I even use it for my pseudo-indoor scenes
Thanks for the EXR tip! I've sometimes wondered where those impressive lighting effects come from. That said, I mainly do promotional work... and I like to show my projects in the best light (or not
Polyhaven is THE source for HDRI global ilumination.
Recently, I explored Omni Skin shaders, and I will never go back again.
HDRI and Omni shader are a new level.
DAZ Iray is terrible in handling multiple light sources. The more lights you're using the less realism you'll get.
So if possible, try not to use more than one HDRI and one extra light.
If you are using mesh lights, keep the emitter's polygon count as low as possible.
Recently, I explored Omni Skin shaders, and I will never go back again.
HDRI and Omni shader are a new level.
DAZ Iray is terrible in handling multiple light sources. The more lights you're using the less realism you'll get.
So if possible, try not to use more than one HDRI and one extra light.
If you are using mesh lights, keep the emitter's polygon count as low as possible.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
Wed, Jun 03Is there really a connection between poly count and light output? I've never experimented with this myself; I just use the primitives as they are
Just like in real life, light adds up in Iray as well (in my experience). That is, if I use, say, 3 spotlights at 220,000 lumens, I end up with a scene that’s way (!!!) too bright. But as soon as I start adjusting the lumens (e.g., 80,000 per spotlight), the whole scene looks completely different.
Just like in real life, light adds up in Iray as well (in my experience). That is, if I use, say, 3 spotlights at 220,000 lumens, I end up with a scene that’s way (!!!) too bright. But as soon as I start adjusting the lumens (e.g., 80,000 per spotlight), the whole scene looks completely different.
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,278
Thu, Jun 04As far, as I understood it, each polygon works as its own light source with mesh lights.
This would make a 16 x16 x 16 mesh light cube an object with 4096 light sources to calculate.
IRAY lights (mesh lights and procedual lights) must also have some tiny glitches, that add up, the more of them you're using.
One or two light sources can give an almost photo real render, but 20 light sources, good look.
I might be wrong on this, and I'd really like to be wrong on this, so I'm happy to read possible solutions.
This would make a 16 x16 x 16 mesh light cube an object with 4096 light sources to calculate.
IRAY lights (mesh lights and procedual lights) must also have some tiny glitches, that add up, the more of them you're using.
One or two light sources can give an almost photo real render, but 20 light sources, good look.
I might be wrong on this, and I'd really like to be wrong on this, so I'm happy to read possible solutions.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
Thu, Jun 04Hmm - actually, it would be easy to try out or test that polygon thing. Right now, though, I'm busy working on the promo images for my next project.... but as soon as I have time, I'll give it a try
20 light sources are, of course, the bomb. That's why I use Dome and Scene, Kloofendal... and if I have to, an extra spotlight
20 light sources are, of course, the bomb. That's why I use Dome and Scene, Kloofendal... and if I have to, an extra spotlight
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
Thu, Jun 04I did a quick test. You'll find the example below so I can upload an image.
I've quit using hdri's and switched to sun and sky for my outdoor lighting. Wasn't to impressed with it at first because it always felt off but once I set the latitude and longitude and time zone to my area it really reflected the lighting I'm use too down to the time of day. Also feel like I have more control over it than I did with hdri's.
Started using ghost lights to help lighten characters in outside shadows if the shadows feel to dark.
Learning what the basic tone mapping settings do can eliminate most of the basic postwork people use, or at least the type I use to use it for.
I accidentally discovered I get a really nice soft nightime fantasy style render from the volumetric lighting from explosion type volumetric props with spectral rendering turned on. May take alot of positioning, scaling and a bit of knowledge in the surface tabs to get it though. Can completely blow out a scene without some major adjustments depending on the volumetric prop.
Started using ghost lights to help lighten characters in outside shadows if the shadows feel to dark.
Learning what the basic tone mapping settings do can eliminate most of the basic postwork people use, or at least the type I use to use it for.
I accidentally discovered I get a really nice soft nightime fantasy style render from the volumetric lighting from explosion type volumetric props with spectral rendering turned on. May take alot of positioning, scaling and a bit of knowledge in the surface tabs to get it though. Can completely blow out a scene without some major adjustments depending on the volumetric prop.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
Thu, Jun 04I also used 'Sun and Sky' a lot at first, because I felt the DAZ Ruins (HDR) were absolutely disastrous. However, that may also have been due to a lack of knowledge (environment/tone mapping) ...
Still, Sun and Sky is a great tip for getting back into it and experimenting
I have to admit: I've never actually worked with volumetric rendering myself; I've just looked at the sometimes brilliant renderings with a touch of envy. Do you happen to have any product recommendations, and do you know which version of DAZ is required to use these features? (I'm currently using version 4.21.0.5.)
Still, Sun and Sky is a great tip for getting back into it and experimenting
I have to admit: I've never actually worked with volumetric rendering myself; I've just looked at the sometimes brilliant renderings with a touch of envy. Do you happen to have any product recommendations, and do you know which version of DAZ is required to use these features? (I'm currently using version 4.21.0.5.)
dirtrider00
Karma: 21,828
17 Hours agohttps://www.daz3d.com/iray-scifi-vfx-kit
https://www.daz3d.com/vdb-apocalypse
My "Wraths Daughter" and "Ember" in my gallery are the best examples of using vdb lighting props as a main light source. Wraths Daughter was the render that kinda got me going down the vdb lighting path at times.
Nothing wrong with hdr but I find I get cleaner and sharper outdoor images using sun and sky plus it gives me more options for adding volumetric clouds where I want them instead of being reliant on the hdr's image and rotation. Admittedly, I didn't start messing with the environmental and tone mapping setting until I switched over to sun and sky.
https://www.daz3d.com/vdb-apocalypse
My "Wraths Daughter" and "Ember" in my gallery are the best examples of using vdb lighting props as a main light source. Wraths Daughter was the render that kinda got me going down the vdb lighting path at times.
Nothing wrong with hdr but I find I get cleaner and sharper outdoor images using sun and sky plus it gives me more options for adding volumetric clouds where I want them instead of being reliant on the hdr's image and rotation. Admittedly, I didn't start messing with the environmental and tone mapping setting until I switched over to sun and sky.
When I go for a film look, I start in DAZ by raising the "Burn Highlights" and reducing the "Crush Blacks," then I render and do the white balance, color grading, vignetting, and a small amount of blurring in GIMP. I especially like the Polaroid look because it's dreamy.
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/93432/memory (NSFW)
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/11188/polaroid-moment (also NSFW)
And yes, I also use HDRIs from Poly Haven, in particular Grasslands Sunset. https://polyhaven.com/a/grasslands_sunset
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/93432/memory (NSFW)
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/11188/polaroid-moment (also NSFW)
And yes, I also use HDRIs from Poly Haven, in particular Grasslands Sunset. https://polyhaven.com/a/grasslands_sunset
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
Thu, Jun 04Yeah, I've seen your Polaroids, and I Liked them (as PasahRi) too
The whole Crush Blacks/Burn Highlights thing sounds interesting. I should experiment with it a bit more sometime
The whole Crush Blacks/Burn Highlights thing sounds interesting. I should experiment with it a bit more sometime
Great thread, Pushee-Ri! It's always interesting to learn about everyone else's workflows.
Personally, I don't really have any "secrets." In almost all of my projects, I break down the assets I used, my workflow, render settings, and I even include mini-tutorials for Photoshop post-processing. So yeah, no gatekeeping here!
For my setup, I always use an HDRI environment, a mesh light, and small emissive spheres placed strategically to add subtle lighting to the character or catch lights on reflective surfaces. Even in waist-up or half-body renders, I still place reflective or colored floors (like a color or mirror panel) to bounce nice color tones onto the character. Also, as others have mentioned, tweaking the tone mapping is incredibly useful for making textures pop.
Another thing I find crucial is post-processing. Lately, I've noticed a trend where people use effects that "dull" the render-adding blur, depth of field, and noise. I assume it's to take away that digital crispness and make it look more "cinematic." To each their own, of course! But personally, I prefer clean, sharp renders. When I'm in post, I do the exact opposite: I keep it as natural as possible and enhance the details, often just using a simple sharpen filter and adjusting tones so the character stands out. A fantastic tool for this in Photoshop is the Nik Collection-and no, it's not AI; it's a 15-year-old suite for photographic adjustments.
As for my essentials: Elianeck, Laticis Imagery, and Colm Jackson for lighting; Dreamlight and Orestes for environments; and Meca4d for shaders.
Personally, I don't really have any "secrets." In almost all of my projects, I break down the assets I used, my workflow, render settings, and I even include mini-tutorials for Photoshop post-processing. So yeah, no gatekeeping here!
For my setup, I always use an HDRI environment, a mesh light, and small emissive spheres placed strategically to add subtle lighting to the character or catch lights on reflective surfaces. Even in waist-up or half-body renders, I still place reflective or colored floors (like a color or mirror panel) to bounce nice color tones onto the character. Also, as others have mentioned, tweaking the tone mapping is incredibly useful for making textures pop.
Another thing I find crucial is post-processing. Lately, I've noticed a trend where people use effects that "dull" the render-adding blur, depth of field, and noise. I assume it's to take away that digital crispness and make it look more "cinematic." To each their own, of course! But personally, I prefer clean, sharp renders. When I'm in post, I do the exact opposite: I keep it as natural as possible and enhance the details, often just using a simple sharpen filter and adjusting tones so the character stands out. A fantastic tool for this in Photoshop is the Nik Collection-and no, it's not AI; it's a 15-year-old suite for photographic adjustments.
As for my essentials: Elianeck, Laticis Imagery, and Colm Jackson for lighting; Dreamlight and Orestes for environments; and Meca4d for shaders.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
Thu, Jun 04Thank you
Once you've been working with 3D rendering for a while, there aren't many 'secrets' left (for you). But for others (newbies), there's (in my opinion) a whole lot to discover. And that's why it's great when we share our 'secrets'
The tip about the reflective floor is a great one. It creates a nice, even light from below. By chance, in one of my recent photos, I positioned a light-emitting surface facing down (instead of up). It opened up some really interesting possibilities
Once you've been working with 3D rendering for a while, there aren't many 'secrets' left (for you). But for others (newbies), there's (in my opinion) a whole lot to discover. And that's why it's great when we share our 'secrets'
The tip about the reflective floor is a great one. It creates a nice, even light from below. By chance, in one of my recent photos, I positioned a light-emitting surface facing down (instead of up). It opened up some really interesting possibilities
my rendering secrets are pretty much just experimenting with lighting to go with a specific vision in post-processing, so I mess around with sun/sky domes, HDRIs, and spotlights to get harsher shadows and/or highlights (or softer lighting depending what I wanna make.) I also usually cut my rendering between 30% to 85% to make it look kinda fucked up.
now, post-processing is where the magic is. I really admire hazy, loud, but sometimes cold and morbid visuals and I frequently use photocopy and light leak overlays to portray that. gaussian blur has also been a blessing for me once I mastered it for blooming effect. sometimes, I would sharpen the image and add subtle noise just to emphasis the dream-like, sort of uncanny look.
now, post-processing is where the magic is. I really admire hazy, loud, but sometimes cold and morbid visuals and I frequently use photocopy and light leak overlays to portray that. gaussian blur has also been a blessing for me once I mastered it for blooming effect. sometimes, I would sharpen the image and add subtle noise just to emphasis the dream-like, sort of uncanny look.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
Thu, Jun 04Experimenting with DAZ settings is a fun and interesting thing to do. As you've discovered, it reveals some beautiful and varied aspects that go beyond the usual monotony.
For some of my images, I didn't stop the rendering at 30% or more; instead, I stopped it after just a few seconds. On top of that, I set the render quality to 0.001 (sic!) and the pixel filter radius to 0 (instead of 1.5). I think that's how this image was created:
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/53458/light-and-shadow-no-post-proc
For some of my images, I didn't stop the rendering at 30% or more; instead, I stopped it after just a few seconds. On top of that, I set the render quality to 0.001 (sic!) and the pixel filter radius to 0 (instead of 1.5). I think that's how this image was created:
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/53458/light-and-shadow-no-post-proc
I usually use quite a few HDR files, both freebies and purchased ones. like this one, which was bought a long time ago It's from Dimension theory in RealworldsHDR package
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/61716/carlos-and-isa-isabel-g9
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/61716/carlos-and-isa-isabel-g9
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bu_es
Karma: 11,510
Thu, Jun 04Although I don't like leaving the renders raw and I do post-processing in Photoshop CS6... I had a PC accident and lost the plugins I use for certain post-processing... but here we are, battling it out.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
Thu, Jun 04I'm sorry to hear about your computer crash! Your post-processing work has produced some brilliant pieces (I just had to take another look at your portrait of Itziar
Thanks also for your HDR tip below! I always think it's important to give credit where it's due
Thanks also for your HDR tip below! I always think it's important to give credit where it's due
I've bought two HDR files from https://www.renderhub.com/omayolas and I highly recommend them.
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@Masterstroke
In my tests, the polycount of a light-emitting object has no effect on render time or the amount of light:
In my tests, the polycount of a light-emitting object has no effect on render time or the amount of light:
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
Thu, Jun 04Yep, you're 100% right: Mistakes (including errors in thinking) are there so that we can all learn from them
Lighting is my most favorite aspect of 3D. I love experimenting and have used pretty much every aspect of DS lighting that we can incorporate. So I do not actually have a set lighting concept, I just play around and test repeatedly until I get the look I want. It could be sun-sky, HDR, volumetric, ghost lights and even combinations. I used to make HDR skies in Vue for lighting creation in Poser, so I could, in theory, dip into those existing files or even make new HDR skies in Vue. Most likely, I will start doing that again now that I have a comfort level using DS.
I see things in my mind's eye, art concepts and basically I just transfer them from my mind to the computer. Drawback there is that I can only work on one render at a time. At the moment, there are at least a half dozen ideas floating around in my head.
Yes, I use post work on my renders, Photoshop being my tool of choice. Personally, I prefer a more painted look and feel to my renders, I like to add painted effects and little touches. On occasion, I might paint in hair or fine details that would not exist otherwise. I also have Rebelle for post work, but I have yet to crack it open.
I see things in my mind's eye, art concepts and basically I just transfer them from my mind to the computer. Drawback there is that I can only work on one render at a time. At the moment, there are at least a half dozen ideas floating around in my head.
Yes, I use post work on my renders, Photoshop being my tool of choice. Personally, I prefer a more painted look and feel to my renders, I like to add painted effects and little touches. On occasion, I might paint in hair or fine details that would not exist otherwise. I also have Rebelle for post work, but I have yet to crack it open.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
6 Hours agoExperimenting is the best!!!! There are so many different settings (tone mapping, but also the position and direction of additional light sources or reflective surfaces) that you can use to transform the same image into something completely different.
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with post-processing (I know there are a few purists who are always complaining about it)... but as a content creator, I unfortunately can't use it for my promotional images (which make up the vast majority of what I post).
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with post-processing (I know there are a few purists who are always complaining about it)... but as a content creator, I unfortunately can't use it for my promotional images (which make up the vast majority of what I post).
I still watch Videos from Jay.
You never can learn enough
You never can learn enough
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
6 Hours ago'You never can learn enough'
Bull's-eye
In addition to videos and text tutorials, I hope that threads like this one will inspire some to learn (or experiment). I've already found a few interesting aspects here that I had either forgotten about (Sun and Sky) or that I should experiment with much more (reflective surfaces as an additional light source, volumetrics, etc.)
Let's keep on learning
Bull's-eye
In addition to videos and text tutorials, I hope that threads like this one will inspire some to learn (or experiment). I've already found a few interesting aspects here that I had either forgotten about (Sun and Sky) or that I should experiment with much more (reflective surfaces as an additional light source, volumetrics, etc.)
Let's keep on learning
KuraiKya
Karma: 19,903
5 Hours agoCouldn’t agree more.
The moment someone think they mastered something they stop improving
The moment someone think they mastered something they stop improving
I'm a fan of DimensionTheory and their HDRI's, I find it easy to pick something that 'works' both for light and color. There's a lot of great stuff here already on the whole lighting setup so I'm going to focus (pun intended) on something else- DOF and bokeh.
I find these settings on the default daz camera (in 4.24 as of this writing) affect bokeh/dof the most directly and the following is what I usually prefer
I can't say I understand this thoroughly, but I do want to point out that the # of aperture blades and their rotation will have direct affects on the shape of bokeh. For example, in this setting the out of focus bits will tend to take a heptagon shape, 7 sides.
I'm not entirely sure what poly5 is. It seems to work, so I use it. My guess is it's how the lens is designed and is 'interpreting' all that info in the settings and the scene as part of a formula.
Poly3 and the inv_poly3, inv_poly5, ptlens, inv_ptlens seem to work broadly in ways I would expect from different handheld cameras. There's some other stuff in the same dropdown I suspect are for things like HDRI's and panoramics.
Happy Renderings!
I find these settings on the default daz camera (in 4.24 as of this writing) affect bokeh/dof the most directly and the following is what I usually prefer
I can't say I understand this thoroughly, but I do want to point out that the # of aperture blades and their rotation will have direct affects on the shape of bokeh. For example, in this setting the out of focus bits will tend to take a heptagon shape, 7 sides.
I'm not entirely sure what poly5 is. It seems to work, so I use it. My guess is it's how the lens is designed and is 'interpreting' all that info in the settings and the scene as part of a formula.
Poly3 and the inv_poly3, inv_poly5, ptlens, inv_ptlens seem to work broadly in ways I would expect from different handheld cameras. There's some other stuff in the same dropdown I suspect are for things like HDRI's and panoramics.
Happy Renderings!
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,287
6 Hours agoThanks for this helpful tip!!!!
The DAZ camera offers an incredible number of settings and sliders. I’ve experimented with it several times, but haven’t gotten anywhere yet. That’s partly because I mainly make promo images for my projects... and there’s less room for experimentation with those images.
But when I have some free time again, I'll definitely take a closer look at the DAZ camera and the information you provided.
Thanks again for the tip
The DAZ camera offers an incredible number of settings and sliders. I’ve experimented with it several times, but haven’t gotten anywhere yet. That’s partly because I mainly make promo images for my projects... and there’s less room for experimentation with those images.
But when I have some free time again, I'll definitely take a closer look at the DAZ camera and the information you provided.
Thanks again for the tip