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HOME|FORUMS|GENERAL DISCUSSION

Sex and 3D "Art". Is There A Difference?


Mon, Nov 25, 2019
Handyman454
United States
Sex and 3D "Art". Is There A Difference?

IMO...

While I am a guy and I love seeing women in just about any condition of dress, I'm really tired of seeing ALL the so called art on any of these sites, of nothing but young, scantily clad women.

That's not art. It's 15 minute BS.

More than that, it requires no more time than selecting a dress up doll, selecting a character face, selecting a garb, selecting a pose and selecting a backdrop picture.
No time involved in that. No thought, no talent, and worse yet, no care.

Just cheap sex and cheap work brought to you SPECIFICALLY, by Daz Studios.


Real artists, actually spend hours drawing their work, then colorizing it just right then setting a backdrop to it.
They practice often and improve as they go spending hours, days, weeks or months to complete one project.
Their work improves over the years and becomes more valuable because it's one of a kind.
That's what art is.

Real artists in 3D, compose their art in story bases utilizing props and settings, light and shadow.
Real artists in 3D spend hours, days weeks putting their work together.


Most of what I see here, like just about all the other dress up doll sites is cheap. Interesting only on a sexual connection but just about VOID of any artistic talent.
I don't know what exactly I would call it but I certainly wouldn't call it art.
Most of your so-called-artists don't even know what a poly or verticie is much less actually created one, much even less how many are used in assembling their so-called art.

Writing your name with a can of spray paint on a wall requires more talent than 80% of the cheap crap I see now days.
It's insulting to those of us who take this business seriously and realistically speaking, I'd be willing to bet that well over 60% (80%?) of the people who frequent the so called Gallery of art, never buy anything because they have no interest in 3D, only in sex the related 2D, "Hustler" pictures they can browse for free.

So how does that help you, much less us, the vendors?

Hustler and Penthouse sell advertising and make millions from it.

Most people that hear about 3D, immediately think porn because of it.

Do away with it.
If you want to keep a gallery, use some judgement on what "creativity" actually is and stay away from the sex doll crap.

You won't lose business, you'll lose the pre-teen interlopers only and gain respect from the 3D talent world.

Just my thoughts.



Mon, Nov 25, 2019
Handyman454
United States

I'm a relative NOBODY in this field but the last project I finished consists of over 200k pollies, 468k verticies (ALL of which I created), over 30 materials, over 500 grouped and individual parts in it (all of which I created) and required over 15 hours to build, colorize and photo and doesn't even have working parts in it.

Odd, but I don't remember seeing that in the Gallery of art.
But then again, maybe my work doesn't quality as art?

Your splash pages are freaking amazing!!!
Every freaking one of them!
Yet I don't see any of that in the so called Gallery of art.

Where do you allow us to actually display art that requires real time investment but has no tits or ass?

Maybe a page titled NTOA Art only? (chuckles)

Common Ion. Think about this some huh?



Mon, Nov 25, 2019
Handyman454
United States

Seems to me that if this site is about vendor support, it should work toward the vendors best interest.
Seems to me that anything promoted on the site that works against the vendor, should be discussed and removed.

Porn and sex work against the vendor who's not dealing in porn and sex.
While there is obviously a demand for it, handling it in a private manner that doesn't offend the general public should be considered.

You already have a site for that.
Vendors providing such material should provide such advertising off line and discussions pertaining to such interests should be privately conducted.

Porn and sex related materials are destructive to the work of professional 3D artists.
They won't advertise their work on a site that openly displays and or promotes such because they don't want to be associated with the stigma.
It kills their hi dollar work business.

If you don't believe me about this then simply take a survey of people who do and people who don't do 3D art.
Ask them one simple question.

"What do you think 3D art is?"



If you want to run a play store, continue down this road but be aware that you'll forever lose any real respect, talent and work and be saddled with $1.99 products forever.

Once again. if the Gallery is only about T&A pics, you should clarify that.

Reputations like Kitbash are gained through professionalism. Not sensationalism.
I personally, am not interested in sex related sensationalism. I'm in this for the professionalism part and if that means pulling out because of a reputation stigma, then I'll have to do that and I'm fast approaching that decision.

Many other sites manage to prosper without a gallery much less an exclusively, sexually targeted T&A gallery.
RH won't lose business if you remove it.
RH will lose business if you keep it and don't tighten the requirements.



Mon, Nov 25, 2019
Handyman454
United States

This is what I consider as not acceptable for a "professional" gallery.

Put these "X'd" pics in the adolescent or newbie gallery.


image



Mon, Nov 25, 2019
Pinspotter
United States

My reply to the OP is the following:

I encourage you to put out the same type and quality of work that I produce. I'll give you a fair amount of time, according to your statements..... say, a week?

I may use pre-modeled figures, but I do my own texturing, create my own shaders and lighting, compose the scene, and many other things that encompass a 3-D composition. Purchased morphs allow me to create a custom likeness in under a half hour. Something that took me many years to nail down, for a fast turnaround. I have well over 50 custom characters, most of them morphed based on the likenesses of both men and women. People who have paid me. I've been working in DAZ Studio since 2006, and in Blender since sometime around 2015.

Now, I agree to some extent, that working with pre-made stuff could diminish the hard work of others who do their craft by scratch, but let me tell you I have seen some real abominations produced by so-called pros working entirely in applications such as Maya. I've seen "bad art" done across the board, in many different mediums. And while some of it may repulse me, I mostly leave it to its own devices now. It's taken me a long time, but I just leave well enough alone now. There's quite a lot of "fetish art" done with DAZ Studio and Poser, over on DeviantArt and while it drives me nuts that the submissions are heaps more popular than what I create, I know that ultimately it's a matter of subjectivity. I'd suggest you check out the Galerie Abominate for some true examples of bad 3-D art. What you have crossed out here, does not belong in such a gallery. I may or may not find it to be "sub-par" according to my own tastes, but I don't berate these artists. It's quite possible they have just started out, or have a low-spec computer, or simply don't have the interest to take their art any farther. You know.... just doing it entirely for the fun of it.

Also, based on what you have crossed out, I don't see anything pornographic or "underaged". And each artist has a skill level that is apparent. If you treated me this way back in 2007, I'd have quit. Not speaking for others here, but I certainly don't encourage that sort of attitude.

Most of your argument is subjective. This is the one chance I am giving you, because I believe everyone deserves at least one chance. So let's be constructive about this. Knowing full well that you'd draw a nice, red X all over every single submission of mine on RenderHub.

They say "don't feed the trolls" but I can't yet say that you are one. Here's your chance to prove me wrong. And if you're looking for stuff that's more "clinical" for lack of a better term, there's always ArtStation (and of course I have a gallery there).



Mon, Nov 25, 2019
Ion
Administrator

@Pinspotter


Thanks for chiming in, and I like the background you added to your gallery header, very cool :)





Tue, Nov 26, 2019
Handyman454
United States

image

[chuckles]

First off. I'm not interested in "putting out the same type and quality of work you produce" because I don't do T&A crap. I kinda grew out of that when I was old enough to seriously date my first girl friend and for some odd reason, never bought back into it when I cracked the box on Daz for the first time and discovered naked chicks in a box.

2nd, why would I want to do work that 80% of the people out there are already doing and calling "art" when I can actually engineer things that actually can be built?

3rd, I don't need a week to "throw" something together that equals your work. 8 or 15 hrs will do fine for most of my light detail work. While your work is colorful and cute, it amazes me that you invest a week in that work to accomplish it. You don't really create anything, you manipulate the stuff that others have created. (I'm curious why you use Blender though)


What you see here is the beginnings of a double hull, Panamax class, 230m long, crude oil tanker but it's nowhere near ready to display so I threw this together just for you.

808k polies

2.2mil verticies

Roughly 200' abreast, 141' longitudinal (that's about 42 meters at the moment ducky), 163' vertical.

100% my work (less the back drop)

Maybe 7 hrs work time (and it's not even 35% done)

This started from a former, more linear version and took on curvature only tonight. All done from what pictures and blue prints I can grab off the internet and then chamfered off with my imagination.


My work has no T&A sweetheart.  I don't need to do T&A because I know how to do other, cool stuff.



Tue, Nov 26, 2019
Ion
Administrator

@Handy


You are kind of throwing all DAZ artists/users into the same bucket. Some DAZ artists are extremely talented and put many hours into their creations, and some are just casual users, and yea some do T&A stuff. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with any of it. 


Just because someone uses DAZ, doesn't mean they aren't talented or didn't put allot of effort into their project, so try not to generalize. Again, its a tool, what people do with it is up to them, and you are welcome to like or despise it. 


Here is one of my DAZ projects, and you can imagine it toke some skill and allot of time to complete. 


image


image


image



Tue, Nov 26, 2019
Foxy 3D
Administrator

@Pinspotter - Nice to see you active around here!


@Ion - Mechaela looks great, and I'm sure she did take a lot of time AND skill to create. Nice work. 


@Handyman454 - I'm not sure who made you the "Art Police" - but here's one definition of art that I found:  


"The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power."


It seems the images you're complaining about surely would qualify as art then, since they obviously are producing a very emotional response from you.  


Also, I'm not sure why you need to start with the "sweetheart" stuff in response to Pinspotter. I believe he was interested to see what you could create that would be so much better than all of the images you put a big red 'X' through.


Since these are your words...

"That's not art. It's 15 minute BS. More than that, it requires no more time than selecting a dress up doll, selecting a character face, selecting a garb, selecting a pose and selecting a backdrop picture. No time involved in that. No thought, no talent, and worse yet, no care."

...I agree with Pinspotter. I am interested to see what you could do, as well. According to you, it shouldn't take much of your time.  



Wed, Nov 27, 2019
Handyman454
United States

Dude...

My problem with Daz is with Daz. Not the people who use the software.

Great art, ideas and imagination come onto the screen via the Daz platform that might never have been realized were it not for Daz Studio.

That however, doesn't make the staff and owners of the company less than immoral idiots and jerks though.


New clothes do not make the wearer smart.


My underlying issue here is the dress up doll and paint by numbers people who think they're artists just because they can take 100% of someone else's work, then add some colors and lights and parade it as their "hard" work is less than true.

That's like buying a paint by numbers canvass, filling in the colors and then advertising it as self created art.

Any art school I know of would bounce you out for that.

Now take that same, paint by numbers T&A chick and add a background that tells some type of story and you're moving into creation and possibly, art as well.

In my op, the artist is the Dude that created the T&A figure. Not the Dweeb that colored it, stripped it of dignity and threw it on a cheesy back drop regardless of how much time they whine about in setting up lighting and poses. That's just BS.


If they want recognition, they should try actually "creating" something rather than just staying inside the lines.


Sorry folks but you don't qualify as an artist just because your crayon work is carefully done inside the lines.



Wed, Nov 27, 2019
Handyman454
United States

Whoever it is that does your splash screen work is an artist.

That stuff is full of imagination, action, color, energy and emotion.

That's art and more than that, it tells a story.


By the way...

The SW chick looks really cool.



Wed, Nov 27, 2019
Handyman454
United States

Foxy...


Odd you should be offended here.
Seems to me you're actually creating clothing?
That qualifies you as an artist.


If this "challenge", is about me creating a cheesy, T&A chick of equal or greater caliber than Pinspotters T&A chick, it ain't gonna happen.

I'm not geared or setup with any inventory for T&A pics other than the naked, sexless dress up dolls provided by Daz and some Star Trek related stuff and I'm not interested in using someone elses materials to win in a contest of fools especially when the whole issue is about false flattery in the first place.

I BUILD the paint by numbers stuff that Pinspotter, puts days or weeks of back breaking effort into coloring.
That qualify s me.

And by the way, I visited her (his? Funny how many men hide behind female avatars) site and although it's pleasingly colorful, i'm frankly not impressed. 

It actually gets boring after you get through the first 10 or 15, "same thing, different color" pics.
Really? That's all you got?


And as for DevArt...

Granted, DevArt has a gallery site, and granted, that gallery, like this gallery, is chock full and growing with more and more BS stuff but like this gallery, it's also got real talent in it too. People who create and tell stories (deviant or otherwise).

It's really a shame that talent isn't encouraged more.

It also doesn't hurt that you can't find hat particular site very easily. Helps hide the PBN dweebs stuff.


If Pinspotter wants more appreciation for her/his mediocre talent, she/he should add some creativity to the renderings other than a new hat.

Take lessons from the splash screen art this site uses.



Wed, Nov 27, 2019
Pinspotter
United States

Mr Handy is perhaps the most elaborate troll I have seen in quite a while.

Mediocre talent, eh? How about you walk a mile in my shoes? I've seen your example, and yeah, I could construct an element and string it across an array in Blender much like you did. Doesn't make it superior to what I do. Our work is apples to oranges. And 3D is only one facet of my art experience. So before you throw ad-hominem attacks my way, perhaps you should go check out my broad body of work. I have links to it, conveniently.

I thought your kind, died off about 10 years ago. You know how I dealt with people like you back then? I created so much content that it enraged you to the point of walking away. But now, I just sit, and laugh. Just because you don't see the value in what I do, that doesn't mean it has no value. I'm sure the people who have paid me money, to take their likenesses and morph them into my style, would have some VERY STRONG words with you. Insult me all you want. But insult my friends and clients? GAME ON

I wouldn't even have constructed this short reply, if you hadn't insulted my fans and paid clients. I might be small potatoes, but I do have available the only heart collar for humanoid figures on the planet. I'm not kidding. I made one years ago because I couldn't find one. I solve problems. You just make problems.



Wed, Nov 27, 2019
Pinspotter
United States

Oh wait, one more thing Mr Handy.

I believe you mentioned something about my splash screen artwork. Yeah, I MADE THAT

In fact it's also on a 6 foot banner that I use in front of my table when I attend conventions.

I bodied your argument in about 3 seconds, troll.



Wed, Nov 27, 2019
Ion
Administrator

So, is this art?

image






Wed, Nov 27, 2019
Handyman454
United States

[Chuckles]

Cool man.



Thu, Nov 28, 2019
Pinspotter
United States

Is this art?

image



Thu, Nov 28, 2019
Pinspotter
United States

How about this? Is it art?

image



Thu, Nov 28, 2019
Pinspotter
United States

Is this art? I can go all day.

image



Thu, Nov 28, 2019
Pinspotter
United States

Can you tell me if these are art? I'm not quite sure.
image
image



Thu, Nov 28, 2019
Pinspotter
United States

Ok, I'm done feeding the troll.

You have a great Thanksgiving, Mr. Handy.



Thu, Nov 28, 2019
Handyman454
United States

Ok!

Now you're cookin.

For what it's worth the troll is now impressed with your work.

There is story and emotion there. Something more than a boringly, repetitious paint by numbers T&A thing.

You've combined different items (even if only a backdrop) to make a complete picture and it's good.


Now how complicated can you make it?


BTW, if you actually cooked up the desk and light saber, I like it best but even if not and it's an actual digital shot, the composition is good and extremely interesting.

"Richard!"
"How many times have I told you! Don't leave that thing where junior can get it."
"Is the safety on?" 



Thu, Nov 28, 2019
Handyman454
United States

Don't know that I'd call the necklace thing "art" per say, but it's sure a saleable item.

Are you selling a model of it?



Mon, Dec 09, 2019
tmac
artist

Hellloooo forum!  Here’s a list of all the things Handy could be doing instead of complaining about his problem with being tantalized by pictures:   https://hobbyhelp.com/inspiration/list-of-hobbies/


The lady doth protest too much, methinks






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