3D Models
3D Print Models
3D Scans
Animation & MoCap
Textures
Materials
Skin Textures
2D Game Assets
Sound Effects
Brushes & Tools
Reference Photos
Stock Images
HDR Images
3ds Max
Maya
Blender
Unreal Engine
Unity
ZBrush
Cinema 4D
LightWave
Marmoset
SketchUp
FBX
DAE
DXF
GLBRE: Flooding of Market place (CLOSED)
827Thread Activity
Ainuk3DRenderFri, Apr 07, 2023
writersblockThu, Sep 08, 2022
rbaker1956Fri, Sep 02, 2022
Horizon DollsWed, Aug 31, 2022
metagenesisWed, Aug 24, 2022
bu_esWed, Aug 24, 2022
I've noticed that there are a few vendors who seem to flood the market place with their products and these vendors are flooding them with variations of the same product essentially. As a browsing customer, I find that it requires me to go many pages deep into being able to look for different things that might interest me. Consequently it wastes a certain amount of my time, and makes me less inclined to browse. I'd like to suggest that maybe " capping" a limit of items to submit to the market place on a weekly basis, might work as a solution. Something like 10 to 25 items per week, with a monthly cap of 50. It's hard to believe that someone can submit over 25 items a week, to the market place on a regular basis and that could be considered great quality work. Just my two cents
! REPORT
I understand the discomfort caused by the multiplication of variants of a product by just changing the colors. It can also be considered as a strategy to quickly reach 200 items in the store and thus obtain the maximum royalty rate..
Limiting the number of products over a period (day, week or month) is to be considered but I am not convinced that this is the best solution
Limiting the number of products over a period (day, week or month) is to be considered but I am not convinced that this is the best solution
! REPORT
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,497
Mon, Aug 15, 2022That's something that has always bothered me. There should be a flat consignment rate. Incentivizing saturation thins the payout pool for everyone.
I understand that this can sometimes be a problem. I see it happen on TurboSquid and CGTrader also.
However, the solution is not as simple as you might think. A "blanket cap" on number of submissions would cause other problems.
There are studios that submit thousands of products under a single seller account. One has 8,474 products as of today.
If RenderHub limited the submissions to 50 per month, it would have taken them 169 months (over 14 years) to upload their products.
I hope you can see why that would not be desirable for RenderHub, nor the customers that would want to buy their products.
With that said, I think I may know of some of the vendors that you might be referring to. And I totally agree that is a problem.
I had some ideas of my own that might help solve this kind of problem.
Would an "Ignore User" button - the opposite of Following a user - work for you?
To have selected vendors' products suppressed from your browsing and search pages?
Let me know if you have any other ideas. We're certainly open to them.
However, the solution is not as simple as you might think. A "blanket cap" on number of submissions would cause other problems.
There are studios that submit thousands of products under a single seller account. One has 8,474 products as of today.
If RenderHub limited the submissions to 50 per month, it would have taken them 169 months (over 14 years) to upload their products.
I hope you can see why that would not be desirable for RenderHub, nor the customers that would want to buy their products.
With that said, I think I may know of some of the vendors that you might be referring to. And I totally agree that is a problem.
I had some ideas of my own that might help solve this kind of problem.
Would an "Ignore User" button - the opposite of Following a user - work for you?
To have selected vendors' products suppressed from your browsing and search pages?
Let me know if you have any other ideas. We're certainly open to them.
! REPORT
DoroThee237
Karma: 13,293
Mon, Aug 15, 2022A solution is perhaps to put a checkbox for the variants of a product during the upload.
Only the main product appears in the lists.
The variants would only be visible when selecting the main product.
Will the seller check the box? If they don't, programming this option is a waste of time.
With this suggestion, I will be hated by by the whole team of developers because I know it's not easy to set up!
Only the main product appears in the lists.
The variants would only be visible when selecting the main product.
Will the seller check the box? If they don't, programming this option is a waste of time.
With this suggestion, I will be hated by by the whole team of developers because I know it's not easy to set up!
MimicMolly
Karma: 273
Fri, Aug 19, 2022I hoped there was an Ignore User option with the shop update, for this very reason. I don't know anything about creating websites, so I don't know if it is possible to make it similar to Twitter, in regards to ignoring. The users aren't necessarily blocked but they won't show up. If it were possible, we could selectively mute uploads/comments, and not just them entirely. (Not sure if that makes sense.)
DoroThee237
Karma: 13,293
Fri, Aug 19, 2022Reading your answer, perhaps a solution on the programming side of the website would be to create a "variant" option when uploading the product, which will appear in the marketplace as Add Ons.
an example
https://www.renderhub.com/bubblecloud/surfboard
an example
https://www.renderhub.com/bubblecloud/surfboard
Foxy 3D
Admin: 58,121
Sun, Aug 21, 2022@MimicMolly - Thanks for sharing your feedback. So far, this seems to be the best option to address the problem.
If a vendor doesn't want to be ignored, they shouldn't do things that cause irritation to the website users.
If a vendor doesn't want to be ignored, they shouldn't do things that cause irritation to the website users.
Foxy 3D
Admin: 58,121
Sun, Aug 21, 2022@DoroThee237 - That's a good suggestion, and I appreciate it. But some of these things that are causing the problem aren't really "variants".
Many of them really are different products, just uploaded all together in a short amount of time.
A lot of Daz vendors seem to have this figured out. For example a main product, and then another product like a texture pack add-on that contains (for example) ten variations. Instead of uploading ten more products, each with a single texture.
The "non-Daz" world likes to upload a new product for every variation. Product with color red, same product with color blue, same product with color green, and so on...
Those are the ones where your suggestion would definitely be helpful.
In your first comment - "Will the seller check the box? If they don't, programming this option is a waste of time."
You're right about that...
"I will be hated by by the whole team of developers because I know it's not easy to set up"
Never. We appreciate the feedback. If we had the perfect solution, they would definitely want to set it up.
Many of them really are different products, just uploaded all together in a short amount of time.
A lot of Daz vendors seem to have this figured out. For example a main product, and then another product like a texture pack add-on that contains (for example) ten variations. Instead of uploading ten more products, each with a single texture.
The "non-Daz" world likes to upload a new product for every variation. Product with color red, same product with color blue, same product with color green, and so on...
Those are the ones where your suggestion would definitely be helpful.
In your first comment - "Will the seller check the box? If they don't, programming this option is a waste of time."
You're right about that...
"I will be hated by by the whole team of developers because I know it's not easy to set up"
Never. We appreciate the feedback. If we had the perfect solution, they would definitely want to set it up.
Ainuk3DRender
Karma: 824
Fri, Apr 07, 2023As a newbie here on RenderHub (but having spent many more thousands at DAZ, 'osity, and 'otica than I care to admit to myself), I'd find an IGNORE, or better yet, a SNOOZE button for vendors very helpful. As a for instance, there's a vender whose work I respect very much, who absolutely dominates a category with products based around a couple characters. Not color variants, but different products with the same theme. I appreciate the work and have bought a couple of them, but at this point the sheer volume of offerings on display obscures content by other creators. I would LOVE to be able to exclude that (very excellent) vendor's products from view by some means (and rely on notifications when they have a new release) so I can get to the content that I want to browse. It's currently way too cumbersome and it's a drag on your sales (at least your sales to me).
My 2 cents
My 2 cents
Saturation needs to be addressed, and filtering won't be nearly enough. Certain categories will have to be reviewed.
! REPORT
There could *maybe* be some sort of "see more" option if a vendor is on an uploading spree (I would guess that's most common when someone's just moving in). Though that might lead to someone missing something they may have actually wanted as it was buried in the "see more" tab, and I don't want to things to be unnecessarily or unfairly buried.
There can also be better ways for the producers/vendors to handle product variations, but there's only so much the site can do on that compared to the producers themselves. "Jenny child, Jenny teen, Jenny young adult, Jenny middle aged, Jenny grandparent" and "Stilettos base model, stiletto texture pack 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and prop addons 1, 2, 3, and 4" can be bundled up, and the bundles shown on the front with the separates on the specific store page or that "see more" tab.
I don't know if there's really a perfect or ideal solution to this.
There can also be better ways for the producers/vendors to handle product variations, but there's only so much the site can do on that compared to the producers themselves. "Jenny child, Jenny teen, Jenny young adult, Jenny middle aged, Jenny grandparent" and "Stilettos base model, stiletto texture pack 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and prop addons 1, 2, 3, and 4" can be bundled up, and the bundles shown on the front with the separates on the specific store page or that "see more" tab.
I don't know if there's really a perfect or ideal solution to this.
! REPORT
Foxy 3D
Admin: 58,121
Sun, Aug 21, 2022I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and feedback.
And I'm with you on your last statement, for sure. I wish there was.
If we come up with something, I'm sure the owner will be willing to try it and see how it goes.
And I'm with you on your last statement, for sure. I wish there was.
If we come up with something, I'm sure the owner will be willing to try it and see how it goes.
It's pretty simple to understand WHY they are doing it, it's renderhubs commission policy.
Tier 1 : Earn 55%
1-50 items in your store
Tier 2 : Earn 60%
51-100 items in your store
Tier 3 : Earn 65%
101-200 items in your store
Tier 4 : Earn 70%
201 or more items in your store
$500 Extra Bonus
1000 or more items in your store
Tier 1 : Earn 55%
1-50 items in your store
Tier 2 : Earn 60%
51-100 items in your store
Tier 3 : Earn 65%
101-200 items in your store
Tier 4 : Earn 70%
201 or more items in your store
$500 Extra Bonus
1000 or more items in your store
! REPORT
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,497
Mon, Aug 22, 2022I remember when Tier 1 was 1-15 items. This is a huge problem that can't be solved simply by increasing the requirement for each tier.
Which to be honest at CGTrader I make 73% off of 50 items listed...now those are not Daz items though, as CGTrader is not known for Daz products. And I a will be very vocal here about that the starting rate of 55% for commissions is extremely steep and a huge turn off..and why lots of artists actually have gone to gumroad. Renderhub IMO needs to reevaluate this if they want really want to be competitive against Daz, renderosity and renderotica. I think they can be and have fully hopes they will, but they need to bring entry level into par otherwise you will have artists go no thanks or try and game the system with lower quality stuff to get commissions to a level they expect.
Foxy don't take this as a bash, but an honest suggestion.
Foxy don't take this as a bash, but an honest suggestion.
! REPORT
writersblock
Karma: 324
Sun, Aug 21, 2022I hadn't realised that.
I had been considering, and was about to upload a few free items to get me started, but I couldn't get to 100 products and refuse to 'create em just to pad my product count'.
I had been considering, and was about to upload a few free items to get me started, but I couldn't get to 100 products and refuse to 'create em just to pad my product count'.
Foxy 3D
Admin: 58,121
Sun, Aug 21, 2022You're right... Gumroad may be great for some people that have developed a large following, or are active on social media and want to rely on promoting their own products.
However, I can't agree with your statement that "Renderhub IMO needs to reevaluate this if they want really want to be competitive against Daz, renderosity and renderotica."
The starting royalty rate of 55% here is higher than the Daz store, Renderosity and Renderotica. They all start at 50%.
The top tier of 70% that you can earn at RenderHub is more than you could get under any circumstances at the Daz store or Renderosity, and the same as the top tier at CGBytes/Renderotica.
"...but they need to bring entry level into par..."
Comparing the three sites you mentioned, RenderHub is already above that.
And no offense taken. I don't take it as a bash at all. We welcome all feedback and suggestions.
However, I can't agree with your statement that "Renderhub IMO needs to reevaluate this if they want really want to be competitive against Daz, renderosity and renderotica."
The starting royalty rate of 55% here is higher than the Daz store, Renderosity and Renderotica. They all start at 50%.
The top tier of 70% that you can earn at RenderHub is more than you could get under any circumstances at the Daz store or Renderosity, and the same as the top tier at CGBytes/Renderotica.
"...but they need to bring entry level into par..."
Comparing the three sites you mentioned, RenderHub is already above that.
And no offense taken. I don't take it as a bash at all. We welcome all feedback and suggestions.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,497
Mon, Aug 22, 2022Like I said above, there needs to be a flat rate. This increasing scale is encouraging flooding and saturation. And as said before, that thins the profit pool for all of us. There absolutely needs to be a balance.
Foxy 3D
Admin: 58,121
Mon, Aug 22, 2022@Pinspotter
Actually, the tiered system is doing exactly what it was intended to do. For the most part, it is rewarding vendors and studios for bringing more of their products to RenderHub. Most of the vendors that are in the upper tiers have products that are of higher quality and variety, and would not be considered to be flooding or saturating the marketplace.
Unfortunately, there are a few vendors that have their strategy all wrong and are causing this side effect of irritating customers.
They don't understand that simply offering more products isn't going to convince people to buy them.
They need to make quality products that people will actually want to buy *even one of* before they'll see the benefit of the increased royalty rate.
Actually, the tiered system is doing exactly what it was intended to do. For the most part, it is rewarding vendors and studios for bringing more of their products to RenderHub. Most of the vendors that are in the upper tiers have products that are of higher quality and variety, and would not be considered to be flooding or saturating the marketplace.
Unfortunately, there are a few vendors that have their strategy all wrong and are causing this side effect of irritating customers.
They don't understand that simply offering more products isn't going to convince people to buy them.
They need to make quality products that people will actually want to buy *even one of* before they'll see the benefit of the increased royalty rate.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,497
Mon, Aug 22, 2022Regardless of the current state, some categories will reach saturation point, and that will have to be addressed. You should be aware of that well before it happens.
Basically if entry level commissions started at 70%, not 55% there would most likely be a wave of new contributors. I'm not sure how that works out in numbers on renderhubs spreadsheet. But I would imagine it would be a bigger boom to profits then the trickle of sub par products we currently see. I would imagine it would allow renderhub to completely outpace renderotica at least.
! REPORT
I personally (as a customer) am against a cap on how many products can be submitted.
What I would like to see is check on products being submitted, when using merchant resources, that they actually put effort into adjusting the resource.
Some vendors I don't trust, as their products use unaltered merchant resources, which isn't unique to RenderHub: Sub-standard work exists everywhere.
What I would like to see is check on products being submitted, when using merchant resources, that they actually put effort into adjusting the resource.
Some vendors I don't trust, as their products use unaltered merchant resources, which isn't unique to RenderHub: Sub-standard work exists everywhere.
! REPORT
Foxy 3D
Admin: 58,121
Sun, Aug 21, 2022I totally understand *why* this would be beneficial for certain customers, but I don't see *how* it could be done.
Product reviewers would need access to every current and future merchant resource that there is, and ever will be - from an unknown number of sources.
And then they would need to compare every product submitted against all of them.
On top of that, what would be the criteria to determine "that they actually put effort into adjusting the resource"?
"Some vendors I don't trust, as their products use unaltered merchant resources..."
Right, and that's the vendor's loss. I agree that vendors should do as you suggest. I wish more of them did, but we can't make them do it.
"...which isn't unique to RenderHub: Sub-standard work exists everywhere."
You're absolutely right about that, probably for the reasons I stated above.
Product reviewers would need access to every current and future merchant resource that there is, and ever will be - from an unknown number of sources.
And then they would need to compare every product submitted against all of them.
On top of that, what would be the criteria to determine "that they actually put effort into adjusting the resource"?
"Some vendors I don't trust, as their products use unaltered merchant resources..."
Right, and that's the vendor's loss. I agree that vendors should do as you suggest. I wish more of them did, but we can't make them do it.
"...which isn't unique to RenderHub: Sub-standard work exists everywhere."
You're absolutely right about that, probably for the reasons I stated above.
bu_es
Karma: 10,458
Tue, Aug 23, 2022a question only for you that is to adjust a merchant to your product?. It is the second time that you say that about the Merchants and the creators. I use MR like Raiya, all of them are very good... but it does not take you all the maps that are needed and I make them for myself... An MR no matter how good it is There is always something missing that you have to add. Whether it is because you want to use PBR or something else. By the way, there are very expensive MR that you have to reuse to avoid losing money. At least it is my case
writersblock
Karma: 324
Wed, Aug 24, 2022I bought a product from here a few weeks ago, and returned it.
I loaded the character, and imediately became suspicious, checked the textures noticing who's they were and compared them to the textures in the MR.
Changes: Nope. None. Zero. Zilch. If I haven't been clear, not even a solitary mole was added.
The shader is texture independent, sure it has an affect on the look, but I can get the same look using the same shader as I have the MR, which is what I object to.
If they said they were using an MR, at least I could avoid purchasing in the first place.
If someone is going to use them unchanged, they might as well have their character load the default Genesis (X) textures, with a good shader setup they are very good.
https://www.renderhub.com/humanxystudio
I've also bought humanxystudio's products and neither regret buying and I will also buy again. The quality is there.
I loaded the character, and imediately became suspicious, checked the textures noticing who's they were and compared them to the textures in the MR.
Changes: Nope. None. Zero. Zilch. If I haven't been clear, not even a solitary mole was added.
The shader is texture independent, sure it has an affect on the look, but I can get the same look using the same shader as I have the MR, which is what I object to.
If they said they were using an MR, at least I could avoid purchasing in the first place.
If someone is going to use them unchanged, they might as well have their character load the default Genesis (X) textures, with a good shader setup they are very good.
https://www.renderhub.com/humanxystudio
I've also bought humanxystudio's products and neither regret buying and I will also buy again. The quality is there.
bu_es
Karma: 10,458
Wed, Aug 24, 2022Your opinion is good, but your opinion ruins the work of many people... for not adjusting to your Quality Standard... I can understand even if I don't share it. And excuse my English.
writersblock
Karma: 324
Thu, Sep 08, 2022Actually, using Merchant Resources without reasonable changes is against the terms of service for the merchant resources I've seen used.
It isn't my standard, but a condition of sale the users of merchant resources should adhere to.
It isn't my standard, but a condition of sale the users of merchant resources should adhere to.
I was a Renderosity seller... and I opened a store here for a while I had two stores. But now I only have Renderhub... I practically moved my entire Renderosity store to Renderhub... Since there are some products that I had in Renderosity that would be outdated. As for the flood, I think there are vendors that are not 1 but a small studio where they make the products between 4 designers. It especially happens with the clothes... these studios sell mostly in the Daz store directly. Although there are also sellers who sold exclusively on Daz and brought their store to Renderhub. As is the case with Marcius. And the idea of limiting to 50 items per month to avoid flooding the market is very good. When I moved my store I think I had that number of items
! REPORT
MidnightWatcher
Karma: 766
Tue, Aug 23, 2022Can you explain what your reason for moving from renderosity to here was? Thanks.
bu_es
Karma: 10,458
Tue, Aug 23, 2022I started at renderosity... and over time it became clear that there was a lot of favoritism when it came to approving products from certain vendors... the atmosphere was not very good... and I decided to open a store here and kept both stores for a while until leave renderosity
Can be solved with a function:
[If vendor posts more then 5 items related to one category in one week, items will be displayed stacked]
Stacked: Items show like one item but stacked so its visible with a click you can see all items.
[If vendor posts more then 5 items related to one category in one week, items will be displayed stacked]
Stacked: Items show like one item but stacked so its visible with a click you can see all items.
! REPORT
So as the original " poster" I apologize to Foxy for not responding sooner. I don't have a perfect solution for the question I asked. I suppose a button to block certain vendors might work, but if I am one of those vendors, I might be inclined to leave if that ended up being the case. I think the crux of the problem is that you have policies working at cross purposes. On the one hand the tier system rewards merchants to publish as many products as possible. The more products the bigger the percentage of your sales goes to the merchants. As that is the case, why wouldn't I flood the market? The loss of sales due to minimal variations is probably more than made up by the percentage I get from products I do sell. So Renderhub has based some of it's strategy on "quantity versus quality". If a vendor has 10 products in their store, and they sell like hotcakes, they still aren't going to be rewarded at a higher rate than someone who has 200 products that sell one unit a piece. ( if I understand that correctly.) Sorry, but that sounds just bizarre to me. For one thing, if I'm that vendor that has ten really popular products, my product is being buried in a flood of another vendor. If the customer is trying to browse( and not spend two hours doing it) then, they are much more likely to scroll far more quickly over the page, thereby missing the " quality" vendor's product. I would be a very unhappy camper if I were that vendor. Two, I thought this was a store. While maybe not all considerations should be focused on the consumer, ease of use seems to be fairly high up there on the list of important qualities to attract buyers. To exaggerate a little bit, I would not return to a large warehouse that's chock full of stuff with little signage and have someone say, " it's in there somewhere, good luck." I am talking about the experience of browsing. Browsing ( as opposed to shopping.) usually has no agenda behind it. I come to renderHub, see what's neat, cool, interesting, etc with little expectation as to what I might find. There's a ton of stuff, that I stumbled across at the store, that I consciously wasn't looking for, but upon seeing it, I thought it was so unique that it either ended up in my wishlist or my shopping basket. Half of anything I buy, ( books, music, art, 3d models etc) are things I stumble upon. I would never attempt to do that in a warehouse. Serendipity is an important quality to browsing and the experience in general. Page upon page upon page of the " same' thing" turns browsing and serendipity into a chore. It seems to me, there is a fundamental imbalance as to the " needs" of the vendors as opposed to the "needs" of the customer in this regard, but that's just me. As a personal experience, you guys routinely send out e-mails at least once a week , if not more. The idea is to entice me, but unless I want to go check out my wishlist, the " shopping prompt" is wasted on me. I have neither the time nor inclination to slog through. As a final point, I'd like to go back to my initial post that started this thread. I wasn't saying, people need to cap the number of products in their stores( and now that I understand the tier system, I can see why someone would flood the market.). What I was saying, was that RenderHub needs to "cap" the amount of items being posted, to a daily rate and or weekly so that your store front looks tidier. That ends up saying something about you too. If vendors are going to squawk about not reaching a tier immediately or in a weeks time as opposed to two weeks or a months time, then you are surrendering quality control over to someone who's figured out how to" game" the rules.
! REPORT
