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GLB8k maps, is it worth including for daz products? (CLOSED)
208
I am pondering not including them anymore, but I am unsure if it's a wise decision to leave them out. Personally, I cannot see any quality difference, but I also only have a 1080p monitor. Would someone with a larger monitor get some value out of texture maps that size?
! REPORT
Most people do not have 8K monitors thus are limited their native monitor resolution.
8 K maps are waste of system resources particularly in this era of AI upscaling when more resolution is needed for large display etc.
8 K maps are waste of system resources particularly in this era of AI upscaling when more resolution is needed for large display etc.
! REPORT
deathd
Karma: 1,547
Sun, Oct 29, 2023That's kinda what I was thinking. The 8K maps, especially the normal map PNG's are absolutely massive lol.
Foxy 3D
Admin: 58,300
Wed, Nov 01, 2023@Anabran -
Monitor resolution doesn't really have anything to do with it.
It's more about the resolution of the rendered image and how large the object appears in the frame.
I posted some examples below.
Monitor resolution doesn't really have anything to do with it.
It's more about the resolution of the rendered image and how large the object appears in the frame.
I posted some examples below.
CurvedInsightWed, Nov 01, 2023
Account Closed
I read this a while ago, as when hearing about 8K i wasnt really interested in the hype because realistically the chances you see the difference from 4k are slim, its more of a case of 'we need to always make "better" bigger things' but those things arent always accurate to the hype.
'For a person with 20/20 vision, while sitting 10 feet away, one would need about a 75-inch display-diagonal for HD, 120-inch for 4K, and a whopping 280 inches for 8K to be able to distinguish the resolution'
There is some limit the human's eye can pick up from a certain distance at a given pixel density to be distinguishable. And as Anabran mentioned, file size would be overly excess, GPUs are already so limited with stingy amounts of Vram even big scenes @ 2k can easily eat 16-30GB so at 8k that scene will use 32GB-60GB lol
'For a person with 20/20 vision, while sitting 10 feet away, one would need about a 75-inch display-diagonal for HD, 120-inch for 4K, and a whopping 280 inches for 8K to be able to distinguish the resolution'
There is some limit the human's eye can pick up from a certain distance at a given pixel density to be distinguishable. And as Anabran mentioned, file size would be overly excess, GPUs are already so limited with stingy amounts of Vram even big scenes @ 2k can easily eat 16-30GB so at 8k that scene will use 32GB-60GB lol
! REPORT
deathd
Karma: 1,547
Wed, Nov 01, 2023Need them 8k textures in case someone wants to render something for a giant digital billboard lol
Foxy 3D
Admin: 58,300
Wed, Nov 01, 2023@deathd -
You might be surprised to learn that those giant roadside billboards are actually *lower* resolution.
They don't need to be high resolution, because they are viewed from a distance.
Now, if it's an indoor sign that a viewer will be closer to, a higher resolution is needed.
It's the same kind of concept as demonstrated with the example images.
https://blog.visual.electro-matic.com/what-resolution-led-sign-do-i-need
You might be surprised to learn that those giant roadside billboards are actually *lower* resolution.
They don't need to be high resolution, because they are viewed from a distance.
Now, if it's an indoor sign that a viewer will be closer to, a higher resolution is needed.
It's the same kind of concept as demonstrated with the example images.
https://blog.visual.electro-matic.com/what-resolution-led-sign-do-i-need
It really depends on the intended use of the product, the scale of the object, and the resolution of the final rendered image.
What is the texel density of other objects in the scene?
How much texture detail do you need for the object?
What is the resolution of the rendered image?
How much space will the object occupy in the rendered image?
One way to look at it is to imagine how close the camera might be to a particular object in the scene.
If the resolution of the rendered image is high, and the object fills a large part of the frame, then the texture resolution needs to be high.
If it's not, you'll see pixelation.
To avoid pixelation, the number of texture pixels visible on the object must be equal to or greater than the number of pixels in the space that the object occupies in the final image.
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This is ironic that you asked the question here.
Just the other day, I was discussing this topic with someone else, so I have some example images for you.
It's much easier to show it than explain it.
The example images are all rendered at 3840x3840 px. The "wall texture" is simply numbers and letters.
One set shows what the wall looks like from a distance, with a single 8192x8192 texture applied, and the same wall with a 1024x1024 texture.
The second set clearly shows what happens when the camera gets closer to the wall, and a section of that wall occupies more space in the frame.
If you'd like to learn more, one of RenderHub's blog writers posted an article just a few days ago:
https://www.renderhub.com/blog/understanding-texel-density-a-comprehensive-guide
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What is the texel density of other objects in the scene?
How much texture detail do you need for the object?
What is the resolution of the rendered image?
How much space will the object occupy in the rendered image?
One way to look at it is to imagine how close the camera might be to a particular object in the scene.
If the resolution of the rendered image is high, and the object fills a large part of the frame, then the texture resolution needs to be high.
If it's not, you'll see pixelation.
To avoid pixelation, the number of texture pixels visible on the object must be equal to or greater than the number of pixels in the space that the object occupies in the final image.
-----
This is ironic that you asked the question here.
Just the other day, I was discussing this topic with someone else, so I have some example images for you.
It's much easier to show it than explain it.
The example images are all rendered at 3840x3840 px. The "wall texture" is simply numbers and letters.
One set shows what the wall looks like from a distance, with a single 8192x8192 texture applied, and the same wall with a 1024x1024 texture.
The second set clearly shows what happens when the camera gets closer to the wall, and a section of that wall occupies more space in the frame.
If you'd like to learn more, one of RenderHub's blog writers posted an article just a few days ago:
https://www.renderhub.com/blog/understanding-texel-density-a-comprehensive-guide
-----
! REPORT
deathd
Karma: 1,547
Wed, Nov 01, 2023Lots of good info in there, gave me a idea to try on my next set texture maps.
8K even 4K is largely a marketing gimmick
that ignores how the human brain interprets visual input.
in short it discards alot of visual information that the brain considers not "important" on a per scenario basis
particularly visual info outside of the fovia area of human eyesight.
(Better explained in detail here)
WE DO NOT SEE IN 4K
And the hardware resources required to deal with this wasted Data becomes increasingly ridiculous with every "new" version of Daz genesis.
Yet Daz remains puzzled as to why the Blender, Maya, Maxon C4D, Unity, Unreal engine communities have largely ignored Daz figures& content despite many aggressive Daz marketing campaigns over the years to woo them into the Daz content eco system.
that ignores how the human brain interprets visual input.
in short it discards alot of visual information that the brain considers not "important" on a per scenario basis
particularly visual info outside of the fovia area of human eyesight.
(Better explained in detail here)
WE DO NOT SEE IN 4K
And the hardware resources required to deal with this wasted Data becomes increasingly ridiculous with every "new" version of Daz genesis.
Yet Daz remains puzzled as to why the Blender, Maya, Maxon C4D, Unity, Unreal engine communities have largely ignored Daz figures& content despite many aggressive Daz marketing campaigns over the years to woo them into the Daz content eco system.
! REPORT
It depends on whether the buyer perceives it as a value. I perceive clean, hires skins as a value (and pay for them). Extreme resolution cloth, or worse, hair is bothersome and I keep that dialed down (to within reason) but having the option of 4k is good (I don't have any 8k hair). Given a choice between a 4k and a 8k model, I'd pick the 8k because 8k gives options. Not everyone has a GeForce RTX 4800 card on a water cooled system with 64 GB SDRAM. Is 8k even an option for lower spec devices that run out of RAM just grunting out a render in hi res with a 4k skin? Of course they are. It'll never render at 8k but it will install and render at a lower res.
Hobbyists that conflate 8k textures and 4k monitors probably don't have the rig to render an 8k scene and aren't 8k texture users. That said, part of selling 3D models is marketing. If one artist has cleaner, higher-res textures, I migrate towards them. If the textures are just up-sampled junk, I stay away. Lastly, fishing lures. Fishing lures aren't sold to fish (the actual consumer), they are sold to sportsmen. So the 8k question becomes: do sales increase when 8k textures are included? For me, they do.
Hobbyists that conflate 8k textures and 4k monitors probably don't have the rig to render an 8k scene and aren't 8k texture users. That said, part of selling 3D models is marketing. If one artist has cleaner, higher-res textures, I migrate towards them. If the textures are just up-sampled junk, I stay away. Lastly, fishing lures. Fishing lures aren't sold to fish (the actual consumer), they are sold to sportsmen. So the 8k question becomes: do sales increase when 8k textures are included? For me, they do.
! REPORT
