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GLBWhich 3D tool to use for your images Daz, Poser, Blender.... (CLOSED)
773Thread Activity
TZO3k1Mon, Jun 17, 2024
Hyp-StSun, Mar 17, 2024
PinspotterSat, Mar 09, 2024
PinspotterSat, Mar 09, 2024
G3 RenderworksSat, Mar 02, 2024
bikdingleFri, Mar 01, 2024
The thread ( https://www.renderhub.com/forum/6381/rendos-cabinet-of-wacky-rules ) has been hijacked and has become a "Daz vs Poser" discussion. I thought it would be interesting to take up this discussion again, broadening the subject so that everyone can share their experience and say which 3D software you prefer, its strong points, its weak points, and also say which software you've abandoned and why.
! REPORT
First I don't think that thread was "hijacked"
but I do not know why the OP seemed to think they could dunk all over the Renderosity Admins for their (alleged) poor management of their commercial 3D character content store.
yet spare them any other criticisms for their, obviously, poor management ,development and marketing of their main 3D character commercial software....Poser.
As content dev. I would love to support poser ,and make money, but for reasons
(That I will explain later in this post) it is NOT a viable worthwhile option IMHO.
Anyway back on the topic here ,I am a professional animator& 3D content creator (Pre-retired)
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4134490/
https://www.blendernation.com/2020/04/29/behind-the-scenes-sci-fi-armor/
I started with poser way back in the late 1990's
For a many years, I used poser figures with special poser import plugin for Maxon Cinema4D for paid commercial work
But I now use Reallusion, Iclone & Character creator, Blender and more recently Autodesk Maya for animation dev.
I only use Daz studio for commercial product development & testing because of the popularity of the genesis figures within their market.
I have long abandoned Poser for any personal work and its content market is a dead end for character animation products because the poser user base
(such as it is) does not render animated films period.
I actually have Poser 12, but my efforts to market animation products for those ugly poser natives (Lafemme & Lahomme) were met with total indifference.
I have "abandoned" Daz studio for any personal animation projects but it remains a very viable platform for commercial products as evidenced by this very
website and the sales of my animation products for Genesis 8-9.
Daz studio actually has a decent animation playback system if you are OK with relying on canned mocap files (aniblocks ,etc)
For professional hand keyed animation, Daz studio is garbage compared to iclone Blender (or even poser to an extent)
Daz studio biggest problem, (or scam) is the each new version of genesis is not compatible with any canned animations/poses you have bought for the previous generation keeping users on the Daz Content hamster wheel
Also trying to render animation with the Old SLOOOOWWWW brute force path tracer in Daz Studio (Iray ) is not practical
as it does not even support modern NIVIDA RTX graphics card like.... well...... everybody else does in 2024. .
but I do not know why the OP seemed to think they could dunk all over the Renderosity Admins for their (alleged) poor management of their commercial 3D character content store.
yet spare them any other criticisms for their, obviously, poor management ,development and marketing of their main 3D character commercial software....Poser.
As content dev. I would love to support poser ,and make money, but for reasons
(That I will explain later in this post) it is NOT a viable worthwhile option IMHO.
Anyway back on the topic here ,I am a professional animator& 3D content creator (Pre-retired)
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4134490/
https://www.blendernation.com/2020/04/29/behind-the-scenes-sci-fi-armor/
I started with poser way back in the late 1990's
For a many years, I used poser figures with special poser import plugin for Maxon Cinema4D for paid commercial work
But I now use Reallusion, Iclone & Character creator, Blender and more recently Autodesk Maya for animation dev.
I only use Daz studio for commercial product development & testing because of the popularity of the genesis figures within their market.
I have long abandoned Poser for any personal work and its content market is a dead end for character animation products because the poser user base
(such as it is) does not render animated films period.
I actually have Poser 12, but my efforts to market animation products for those ugly poser natives (Lafemme & Lahomme) were met with total indifference.
I have "abandoned" Daz studio for any personal animation projects but it remains a very viable platform for commercial products as evidenced by this very
website and the sales of my animation products for Genesis 8-9.
Daz studio actually has a decent animation playback system if you are OK with relying on canned mocap files (aniblocks ,etc)
For professional hand keyed animation, Daz studio is garbage compared to iclone Blender (or even poser to an extent)
Daz studio biggest problem, (or scam) is the each new version of genesis is not compatible with any canned animations/poses you have bought for the previous generation keeping users on the Daz Content hamster wheel
Also trying to render animation with the Old SLOOOOWWWW brute force path tracer in Daz Studio (Iray ) is not practical
as it does not even support modern NIVIDA RTX graphics card like.... well...... everybody else does in 2024. .
! REPORT
All my personal stuff is rendered in blender, daz iray is waaaaaaay to slow. Cycle alone is a bit faster, if you add turbo tools to that, holy shit it's fast. Like I mean a scene that will take 30+ mins in iray renders out in like 2-5 minutes fast. If the daz iray had a decent denoising function, that would probably help a lot. The denoising that turbo tools uses takes albedo and normal map into consideration, so it doesn't end up blasting details like the iray denoiser does, which I think makes the difference. I have never gotten nice results with daz iray denoiser, it always ends up getting rid of way too much details.
! REPORT
I dunno, I use Daz for rendering. It has a post denoiser that works fine for me...
And my RTX cards also work just fine....
Although I do want to try Blender's renderer, I haven't touched it yet but cycles does sound interesting.
And my RTX cards also work just fine....
Although I do want to try Blender's renderer, I haven't touched it yet but cycles does sound interesting.
! REPORT
I bought a copy of Poser 6 at a computer store on a whim way back when. Moved to Daz during the V7 era simply for content. I'm mostly content with the IRay render engine and speed. As to the future, think I would be more interested in learning Ren'py and making some small short stories for myself seeing as how I'm finding it hard to tell a story in a single rendered image.
! REPORT
I use DAZ and Iray - but I don't do that because I think it's so great and ingenious, but simply because I'm too lazy to think my way into PBR materials and I dread exporting / importing (e.g. to Blender).
But the thread raises another question: what determines the quality/beauty/progressiveness of a painting? Is it really the quality of the canvas, the brush, the colours ... or what the user makes of it?
Fortunately, OberonRex has been posting here for a (very) short time. I know his work from Rendo and have rarely seen such experimental, minimalist renderings. OberonRex uses Poser. Should I therefore find his pictures bad?
https://www.renderhub.com/oberonrex/gallery
On the other hand, I have seen (too) many pictures on 'rotica that - with all due respect for the time and work that the creators have put into them - make my eyes water (and not out of sheer rapture). So should I think these "pictures" are great because they were made with DAZ?
For me personally and in my very own opinion, the whole discussion about "What is better", which is unfortunately always triggered by one or a few users, is pretty off the mark. In short, it's always about "What I bought is better than what you bought" ... and not even about what was created with the respective "tool".
That's Kindergarten (albeit at a very low level).
But the thread raises another question: what determines the quality/beauty/progressiveness of a painting? Is it really the quality of the canvas, the brush, the colours ... or what the user makes of it?
Fortunately, OberonRex has been posting here for a (very) short time. I know his work from Rendo and have rarely seen such experimental, minimalist renderings. OberonRex uses Poser. Should I therefore find his pictures bad?
https://www.renderhub.com/oberonrex/gallery
On the other hand, I have seen (too) many pictures on 'rotica that - with all due respect for the time and work that the creators have put into them - make my eyes water (and not out of sheer rapture). So should I think these "pictures" are great because they were made with DAZ?
For me personally and in my very own opinion, the whole discussion about "What is better", which is unfortunately always triggered by one or a few users, is pretty off the mark. In short, it's always about "What I bought is better than what you bought" ... and not even about what was created with the respective "tool".
That's Kindergarten (albeit at a very low level).
! REPORT
Thank you all for your responses.
By asking the question I knew that everyone has a tool they prefer.
For my part, I started 3D with free versions of Poser which were on the CDs of graphics magazines. This doesn't make me any younger
I moved to Daz Studio when I had internet access and Poser became paid.
I do all my rendering with Daz, I don't master any of the other tools listed in the thread.
At the beginning I made my renderings with 3Delight, I tried filament but I found the renderings too light, I recently discovered that you could modify the light intensity by modifying the "ISO Scale" parameter (lower it between 0.15 and 0.25 gives an interesting result) from the "filament Draw Options" tool
And my renderings are generally in IRay, with the default settings, out of laziness.
By asking the question I knew that everyone has a tool they prefer.
For my part, I started 3D with free versions of Poser which were on the CDs of graphics magazines. This doesn't make me any younger
I moved to Daz Studio when I had internet access and Poser became paid.
I do all my rendering with Daz, I don't master any of the other tools listed in the thread.
At the beginning I made my renderings with 3Delight, I tried filament but I found the renderings too light, I recently discovered that you could modify the light intensity by modifying the "ISO Scale" parameter (lower it between 0.15 and 0.25 gives an interesting result) from the "filament Draw Options" tool
And my renderings are generally in IRay, with the default settings, out of laziness.
! REPORT
My toolkit includes:
DAZ Studio
Blender
Marvelous Designer
GIMP
I've also dabbled in Krita, CSP, Inkscape, PSPx, Wings3D, Hexagon, Carrara, Terragen, and even Jinny. There have been others and I lost track a long time ago. Now, the main reason why I use Studio with V4 is that Genesis toon morphs are complete gar-bitch. Also, I have a ton of assets already for V4-etc. and I don't see myself dumping *another* 10 grand into Genesis and its assets when what I have been doing with my characters works for me. Many people can't tell that I don't use Genesis, and for my fans, they really don't care what I use for tools. What's important is the end result. I've been told many times that I am "obsolete". Well, the common #2 pencil is also obsolete but many people still utilize it to great effect. And while I have assets for sale, I'm not here to sell. I figured why not put some of the stuff I made out of need, in a store. My mark on the 3D world is pretty small, but nobody else has made a heart collar in 3D yet. I didn't make it to sell it; I wanted one for my characters to wear, so I made one. It's like when last year I had an idea that involved a bed that has a daybed look, but not the size of a daybed. So I made it. That's just how I approach my 3D art. I'll use the 3D assets I paid a license for, and if I can't find something I want I'll end up making it. Art through adversity is a wonderful thing, and art for commerce is loathesome.
I have Poser 12 and I do know a few people who still use Poser and that software renders very well. I only have a copy for one reason, and right now I have no idea how to even approach the problem. I've made some pieces of clothing for my characters and I want them rigged with V4/A4/G4 morphs. There's a way to do this by making conforming clothing, but it's been abandoned by the "community". So I'm stuck simming the clothing in Marvelous, sometimes retopologizing in Blender, then dropping it in Studio with the pose I first carried over into Marvelous. Which is ok, but it's very tedious. I've made prop accessories and used them numerous times in Studio, but they have very basic rigging. Anyway.....
I've seen this DAZ vs. Poser argument since 2006. I may be the only one here who knows and remember groups like D.A.G. and Dazneyland. Studio users used to be the laughingstock, and now it seems Poser users are the second-class. But in the end there's no point. "You still use 3Delight?" Yep, absolutely. It gives me the look I want. Who cares what tool I use? Only artists care. Man on the Street doesn't care. I used to be popular, and a few of the old guard still know exactly who I am when I drop into a DAZ Studio livestream. It is what it is.
DAZ Studio
Blender
Marvelous Designer
GIMP
I've also dabbled in Krita, CSP, Inkscape, PSPx, Wings3D, Hexagon, Carrara, Terragen, and even Jinny. There have been others and I lost track a long time ago. Now, the main reason why I use Studio with V4 is that Genesis toon morphs are complete gar-bitch. Also, I have a ton of assets already for V4-etc. and I don't see myself dumping *another* 10 grand into Genesis and its assets when what I have been doing with my characters works for me. Many people can't tell that I don't use Genesis, and for my fans, they really don't care what I use for tools. What's important is the end result. I've been told many times that I am "obsolete". Well, the common #2 pencil is also obsolete but many people still utilize it to great effect. And while I have assets for sale, I'm not here to sell. I figured why not put some of the stuff I made out of need, in a store. My mark on the 3D world is pretty small, but nobody else has made a heart collar in 3D yet. I didn't make it to sell it; I wanted one for my characters to wear, so I made one. It's like when last year I had an idea that involved a bed that has a daybed look, but not the size of a daybed. So I made it. That's just how I approach my 3D art. I'll use the 3D assets I paid a license for, and if I can't find something I want I'll end up making it. Art through adversity is a wonderful thing, and art for commerce is loathesome.
I have Poser 12 and I do know a few people who still use Poser and that software renders very well. I only have a copy for one reason, and right now I have no idea how to even approach the problem. I've made some pieces of clothing for my characters and I want them rigged with V4/A4/G4 morphs. There's a way to do this by making conforming clothing, but it's been abandoned by the "community". So I'm stuck simming the clothing in Marvelous, sometimes retopologizing in Blender, then dropping it in Studio with the pose I first carried over into Marvelous. Which is ok, but it's very tedious. I've made prop accessories and used them numerous times in Studio, but they have very basic rigging. Anyway.....
I've seen this DAZ vs. Poser argument since 2006. I may be the only one here who knows and remember groups like D.A.G. and Dazneyland. Studio users used to be the laughingstock, and now it seems Poser users are the second-class. But in the end there's no point. "You still use 3Delight?" Yep, absolutely. It gives me the look I want. Who cares what tool I use? Only artists care. Man on the Street doesn't care. I used to be popular, and a few of the old guard still know exactly who I am when I drop into a DAZ Studio livestream. It is what it is.
! REPORT
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,356
Thu, Feb 29, 2024"Who cares what tool I use?"
You nailed it - thank you very much for that
You nailed it - thank you very much for that
guy91600
Karma: 12,880
Fri, Mar 01, 2024I too thought that no one was really interested in the tool that I use to make my images and my renderings until the day I received this message in pm on rendo (yet I no longer put anything into it for several years)
"Hi I like your renders and
I really want to know how to render in daz3d. I have written to people and have gotten advice on render settings and lite sets to buy that will make my renders look just like theirs but nothing has changed too much.
Please let me know if you can help thanks"
I then realized that my images had something more to them and so I tried to help him by telling him that some backgrounds were photos and that only Genesis was 3D.
"Hi I like your renders and
I really want to know how to render in daz3d. I have written to people and have gotten advice on render settings and lite sets to buy that will make my renders look just like theirs but nothing has changed too much.
Please let me know if you can help thanks"
I then realized that my images had something more to them and so I tried to help him by telling him that some backgrounds were photos and that only Genesis was 3D.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,497
Sat, Mar 09, 2024I see that a lot on Reddit. And a lot of the time the advice I give is downvoted. Not really sure why; maybe it sounds abrasive. But many digital artists get hung up with their computer hardware and software. I understand how Iray works because I used to use LuxRender and have dabbled in Cycles, but I don't use Iray. And because I choose not to use Iray I'm often looked down on by DAZ Studio artists. The *real* pros may tell you what they use, but they're not going to berate you if you're not using "their" tools. I'm friends with an illustrator who used to do concept work for UbiSoft. Currently he uses Procreate on an iPad, if you can believe it. But who really cares? It may not be my first choice but he kicks my ass five ways to Sunday with Procreate even though I have been using Clip Studio Paint and Krita (CSP is the "standard" for digial manga art). Drawing Twitch emotes for people is a dream in CSP, for me. But who should care about me using CSP? So if someone asks for my advice I don't beat around the bush. I tell them that they have to focus first on rudiments, on what they want to accomplish, and what kind of art and look they want. The proof is in the message you described: "I have written to people and have gotten advice on render settings and lite sets to buy that will make my renders look just like theirs but nothing has changed too much." So many beginner artists are hung up on the tool when the real problem amounts to PEBKAC
"Behind every strong piece of art, is strong confidence." Me
"Behind every strong piece of art, is strong confidence." Me
I own Daz studio ,Iclone 7 Poser 12, Maxon Cinema4DR 26 , Blender and Autodesk Maya
Sorry, but tools DO MATTER depending on the task at hand.
For animation Iclone is a far better tool than Poser or Daz studio.
if you plan to rig and animate your own custom Characters. then Blender or Maya is better than DAZ, Iclone Poser even Maxon Cinema4D.
On rendering itself two factors come into play .
The quality of the models & content and it's textures.
There are no top tier vendors left producing top quality content for the Poser Ecosystem because the native figures are rubbish ..sorry but it's true.
This is the fault of the owners of poser (past and current)
A render of a Daz female from 19 years ago can ,in no way, compare
to the lataest genesis 8 model in 2024
it is simple & expected progress
When I posted this Poser female, from 19 years ago ,in a private Poser face book group, the render was heaped with praises and likes.
NOT a single mention of how "Lafemme 2"is so much better.
Poser has a content QUALITY problem that Bondware seems completely uninterested in solving.
and they will Ban anyone ,who states this reality, from their forums.
! REPORT
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,497
Sat, Mar 09, 2024"On rendering itself two factors come into play .
The quality of the models & content and it's textures."
Ohoho, there's a *lot* more to it than that. Lighting, camera work, composition, even the energy a figure adds to the scene.... you know, fundamentals?
I dunno man, to this day people ask me how I can get G8 to look the way it does in my character renders. I use Vicky4. Now, the render *engine* used 19 years ago *can* be an issue, but you're comparing that to a current engine. Lately I have bee seriously considering bridging my scenes directly to the 3Delight standalone engine. 3Delight is what works for me, it fits the look I want and my style. Unbiased engines don't give me the look I want. That's what really matters, not this race to hyper-realism.
People aren't making "content" for current Poser figures because there's no money in it. DAZ Aiko 3 has glaring issues but I can still put out great renders with that figure. Because I put some work in it beyond having to rely on someone else to do something for me. But of course nobody's going to make "content" for that figure anymore. Not when only a dozen of us on Planet Earth still uses the figure.
Now if you like Poser but it has a content problem, the solution is simple. Make what you need. People don't like to hear that advice but it's true.
The quality of the models & content and it's textures."
Ohoho, there's a *lot* more to it than that. Lighting, camera work, composition, even the energy a figure adds to the scene.... you know, fundamentals?
I dunno man, to this day people ask me how I can get G8 to look the way it does in my character renders. I use Vicky4. Now, the render *engine* used 19 years ago *can* be an issue, but you're comparing that to a current engine. Lately I have bee seriously considering bridging my scenes directly to the 3Delight standalone engine. 3Delight is what works for me, it fits the look I want and my style. Unbiased engines don't give me the look I want. That's what really matters, not this race to hyper-realism.
People aren't making "content" for current Poser figures because there's no money in it. DAZ Aiko 3 has glaring issues but I can still put out great renders with that figure. Because I put some work in it beyond having to rely on someone else to do something for me. But of course nobody's going to make "content" for that figure anymore. Not when only a dozen of us on Planet Earth still uses the figure.
Now if you like Poser but it has a content problem, the solution is simple. Make what you need. People don't like to hear that advice but it's true.
I'm a hobbyist
I make mostly pinups and porn
I started in Poser 9 because at the time, I knew nothing of Daz but had heard of Poser
Eventually I reached the limit of what I felt I could do with Poser and switched over to Daz Studio in 2019
Knowing what I had already learned with Poser the transition was easy and I continue to make progress with the tools I prefer to use for the hobby
I don't worry about render time...when I was making comics this could be an issue but as I've largely given up on that aspect of the hobby it's not really a concern
I use Photoshop Elements 13 to do any post work on my images. Had I known GIMP and how to use it, I would probably have used that instead. I messed around with Liminar AI for a bit but don't really use it that often....Photoshop seems to be enough for my purposes.
I make mostly pinups and porn
I started in Poser 9 because at the time, I knew nothing of Daz but had heard of Poser
Eventually I reached the limit of what I felt I could do with Poser and switched over to Daz Studio in 2019
Knowing what I had already learned with Poser the transition was easy and I continue to make progress with the tools I prefer to use for the hobby
I don't worry about render time...when I was making comics this could be an issue but as I've largely given up on that aspect of the hobby it's not really a concern
I use Photoshop Elements 13 to do any post work on my images. Had I known GIMP and how to use it, I would probably have used that instead. I messed around with Liminar AI for a bit but don't really use it that often....Photoshop seems to be enough for my purposes.
! REPORT
Daz/iray
Blender
Affinity Photo
GIMP
I mostly do everything in Daz and just use Blender for morph creation. Subscriptions are a no go for me so I stick to Affinity Photo and GIMP for post work. I do have Cascadeur but I haven't messed with it enough to list it. Honestly, animation just looks so time consuming/tedious/difficult that I may just stick to buying premade animations.
Although I enjoy making one-off renders; I'd ultimately like to release a visual novel or comic. Currently working on something but I tend to hate everything that I make so we'll see how far that gets.
Blender
Affinity Photo
GIMP
I mostly do everything in Daz and just use Blender for morph creation. Subscriptions are a no go for me so I stick to Affinity Photo and GIMP for post work. I do have Cascadeur but I haven't messed with it enough to list it. Honestly, animation just looks so time consuming/tedious/difficult that I may just stick to buying premade animations.
Although I enjoy making one-off renders; I'd ultimately like to release a visual novel or comic. Currently working on something but I tend to hate everything that I make so we'll see how far that gets.
! REPORT
Daz studio/Iray, Blender and Krita and extremely rare occasion Carrara 8. Once in a blue moon occasion. As a promo artist and now a vendor stick with Daz studio.
I have often seen many fellow daz artists praising software such as Substance painter, Maya, Zbrush, but even with earnings I don't want to invest in those. I think Blender is an extremely powerful tool as it had proved itself over years with gorgeous movies, concept art. Also, Blender runs on the potato. Daz runs decent even if I have to wait for hours for a single quality render.
I have often seen many fellow daz artists praising software such as Substance painter, Maya, Zbrush, but even with earnings I don't want to invest in those. I think Blender is an extremely powerful tool as it had proved itself over years with gorgeous movies, concept art. Also, Blender runs on the potato. Daz runs decent even if I have to wait for hours for a single quality render.
! REPORT
For the bulk of my images I use Daz studio exclusively, for compositing, posing and rendering, I don't generally do post-work on my images as I want to squeeze every bit of DS's features tools, renderer, and scripts that I can out of it, and try to get special effects, and other post-production details pre-render.
For morph/character creation, I have my trusty ZBrush, though a definite shout-out goes to Blender for its own sculpting tools!
For texture creation/editing, I use Affinity photo, FastStone image viewer and to some extent when I do filter and image adjustment post-work ADCSee Photo Studio…
I, like most people here started out with poser, and was hooked, but as time went on, I grew more and more irritated and frustrated with its UI which is archaic when compared to daz studio's own, which is far more versatile and customisable, and perfect for tinkerers like me!
Yet it wasn't until 2007 when I quit smoking that I dumped poser for DS 2.0, as I lacked the nicotine in my system to hold back my impatience and irritation so any time I used poser I had to quit as I could not handle using the infuriating idiocy of its archaic UI, it was then I looked into DS 2.0, and haven't looked back since, and seeing as poser now has an always online DRM, they can kindly eat *shit…
But after seeing the insanely incredible work for my time with the light contest, I'm sold on Blender, and will be doing a deep-dive as soon as I'm done with my reflection contest entry!
*(NOTE to ADMIN/Mods: I have not read anything about cursing in the forums, so if it's inappropriate/against the rules please let me know!)
For morph/character creation, I have my trusty ZBrush, though a definite shout-out goes to Blender for its own sculpting tools!
For texture creation/editing, I use Affinity photo, FastStone image viewer and to some extent when I do filter and image adjustment post-work ADCSee Photo Studio…
I, like most people here started out with poser, and was hooked, but as time went on, I grew more and more irritated and frustrated with its UI which is archaic when compared to daz studio's own, which is far more versatile and customisable, and perfect for tinkerers like me!
Yet it wasn't until 2007 when I quit smoking that I dumped poser for DS 2.0, as I lacked the nicotine in my system to hold back my impatience and irritation so any time I used poser I had to quit as I could not handle using the infuriating idiocy of its archaic UI, it was then I looked into DS 2.0, and haven't looked back since, and seeing as poser now has an always online DRM, they can kindly eat *shit…
But after seeing the insanely incredible work for my time with the light contest, I'm sold on Blender, and will be doing a deep-dive as soon as I'm done with my reflection contest entry!
*(NOTE to ADMIN/Mods: I have not read anything about cursing in the forums, so if it's inappropriate/against the rules please let me know!)
! REPORT
