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GLBDaz AI Studio Discussion
2,392Thread Activity
TZO3k1Mon, Oct 21, 2024
MasterstrokeThu, Oct 10, 2024
AnabranThu, Oct 10, 2024
MasterstrokeThu, Oct 10, 2024
AnabranThu, Oct 10, 2024
MasterstrokeThu, Oct 10, 2024
guy91600Thu, Oct 10, 2024
KlutzThu, Oct 10, 2024
darkart1Mon, Oct 07, 2024
Hyp-StMon, Oct 07, 2024
Daz AI Studio is here.
I figured there will be a lot to talk about, so I'll start this thread to keep the discussion all in one place.
I'll fire up the popcorn maker. Free beer tomorrow, too.
I figured there will be a lot to talk about, so I'll start this thread to keep the discussion all in one place.
I'll fire up the popcorn maker. Free beer tomorrow, too.
! REPORT
I just got the mail and had exactly the same thought, to talk about it here.
First: I'm NOT happy about this feature
AI is taking over more and more and with this tool, it doesn't matter if you're good or not, just make a simple scene, maybe bad light or whatsoever, start AI and it will change the scene into an amazing render ... or what?
Use a brush, use a prompt and voila, another picture not made by the artist but by AI.
How long will it take, that our way of creating isn't asked at all anymore?
Just this one picture in the mail, a woman in side view, nothing special. The same picture after AI with kind of a helmet and beautiful cloth.
How much will be left for creators?
Nope, I am not happy about it!
First: I'm NOT happy about this feature
AI is taking over more and more and with this tool, it doesn't matter if you're good or not, just make a simple scene, maybe bad light or whatsoever, start AI and it will change the scene into an amazing render ... or what?
Use a brush, use a prompt and voila, another picture not made by the artist but by AI.
How long will it take, that our way of creating isn't asked at all anymore?
Just this one picture in the mail, a woman in side view, nothing special. The same picture after AI with kind of a helmet and beautiful cloth.
How much will be left for creators?
Nope, I am not happy about it!
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! REPORT
slushpuppy
Karma: 142
Fri, Aug 16, 2024I read some time ago that the inventor of Dazstudio invented AI, plus, there are thousands AI creative platforms on the web, all you pay is a membership and can be on any old computer, whereas to run Daz studio you are going to have to spend something in the region 2000 dollars, especially if you want to animate. I love Daz and blender for creating things, however, my PC crashed, do I buy another or go AI?
protosynthetic
Karma: 2,124
Fri, Aug 16, 2024You created an account just to say this? Here? Hoo boy...
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Fri, Aug 16, 2024It depends, what's important for you, being one in millions, getting odd results from an AI or being creative and create something on your own, and with this I also mean pictures.
If you just wanna have some pictures for your walls and don't care, how they are done, well, I think you should go and use AI.
If you would need a new PC anyway, you could do your own pictures
If you just wanna have some pictures for your walls and don't care, how they are done, well, I think you should go and use AI.
If you would need a new PC anyway, you could do your own pictures
I have played with AI using Nightcafe for well over a year. Why? So I could learn what it was all about, and see if there was anything worthwhile about it. I used my own photos of snowy forests, some of my own actual artwork and a few photos I had to make some background packs to sell. That is better than chewing up my hard drive making backgrounds to sell for a couple of bucks. But that's the extent of what I would and will use AI for.
I saw way, way too many obvious signatures on generated images on artwork produced by others on Nightcafe and places like Renderosity. It's crystal clear these algorithms (this is NOT actual AI) are trained on millions of images form the web. And without permission, compensation or credit.
Will I use the Daz version? Heck no! I'm so over the cookie cutter era of art. First it was websites with companies like Wix and now it's art.
Art is passion, it is work, sweat, swearing, learning, growing, frustration, jubilation and absolutely comes from inspiration! Typing in some words, and hitting the create button is not making art. It's making a mockery of all the hard work and years of dedication and commitment it takes to become an artist in your medium of choice.
Then there are the legal issues...https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2023/12/30/ai-generated-art-was-a-mistake-and-heres-why/?sh=5128be3fef37
I saw way, way too many obvious signatures on generated images on artwork produced by others on Nightcafe and places like Renderosity. It's crystal clear these algorithms (this is NOT actual AI) are trained on millions of images form the web. And without permission, compensation or credit.
Will I use the Daz version? Heck no! I'm so over the cookie cutter era of art. First it was websites with companies like Wix and now it's art.
Art is passion, it is work, sweat, swearing, learning, growing, frustration, jubilation and absolutely comes from inspiration! Typing in some words, and hitting the create button is not making art. It's making a mockery of all the hard work and years of dedication and commitment it takes to become an artist in your medium of choice.
Then there are the legal issues...https://www.forbes.com/sites/danidiplacido/2023/12/30/ai-generated-art-was-a-mistake-and-heres-why/?sh=5128be3fef37
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! REPORT
I love using AI in my workflow, will probably be stickin with stable diffusion though lol. Has way too many useful tools, if it was just AI image generation without the tools, I would be a lot less interested.
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At least they made it easier to add an extra finger. Now you don't need to use Blender to do that.
From their promo video: youtube.com/watch?v=USA5pD3Q2jA&t=23s
From their promo video: youtube.com/watch?v=USA5pD3Q2jA&t=23s
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,692
Thu, Apr 04, 2024LOL! So remember: the true AI genius starts with at least 6 fingers ... on each hand 
guy91600
Karma: 13,043
Thu, Apr 04, 2024With a bit of luck I'll finally have my flock of 5-legged sheep.
I think the only thing I'm surprised by is how long it took them to get to this point. Clearly someone at Tafi is a trend chaser, and I rather suspect this is their 2024 version of "The first hyper-realistic 3D NFT collection built for the Metaverse"
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protosynthetic
Karma: 2,124
Thu, Apr 04, 2024Remember that genius Game of Thrones collection? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Maybe a trend chaser, maybe the biggest idiot in the world.
Who will need content creators, from hair to cloth to buildings, vehicles and any imaginable figure etc.
You wanna have a cat in your render, use the brush, write the prompt and you'll get it (as mentioned in the newsletter).
I think, this AI studio will kill over time a lot of jobs.
Years ago, many people were joking about the make-art-button, so many wanted to have.
Well, here it is, sadly enough
Who will need content creators, from hair to cloth to buildings, vehicles and any imaginable figure etc.
You wanna have a cat in your render, use the brush, write the prompt and you'll get it (as mentioned in the newsletter).
I think, this AI studio will kill over time a lot of jobs.
Years ago, many people were joking about the make-art-button, so many wanted to have.
Well, here it is, sadly enough
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! REPORT
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Thu, Apr 04, 2024That's the whole point. Throw all the assets in the meatgrinder and let it run enough, then DAZ won't need to pay asset creators at all. The money and the very means of production shifts from the creator to the company. That's why every company imaginable is jumping on AI. It eliminates the need for workers. AI never gets tired, or sick, or need time off. AI doesn't need to survive on a paycheck. it doesn't need a storefront.
I get it now.surprise
you pick a character from your product library
and you can dress or scene build around them with AI
my prompt:
A detailed photorealistic portrait render of a square jawed handsome male wearing the armor of the warhammer 40k space marines.
Frankly a Brilliant move by Daz/Tafi
they are effectively removing a major barrier to entry to their content ecosystem:the need to own a modern PC with NVIDIA GPU.
this took literally five minutes from start to finish on my 2017 imac
But I could have easily created this entire thing on my Samsung Galaxy S22+ while sitting at my doctors office
you pick a character from your product library
and you can dress or scene build around them with AI
my prompt:
A detailed photorealistic portrait render of a square jawed handsome male wearing the armor of the warhammer 40k space marines.
Frankly a Brilliant move by Daz/Tafi
they are effectively removing a major barrier to entry to their content ecosystem:the need to own a modern PC with NVIDIA GPU.
this took literally five minutes from start to finish on my 2017 imac
But I could have easily created this entire thing on my Samsung Galaxy S22+ while sitting at my doctors office
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! REPORT
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Wed, Apr 03, 2024I've been messing around wiht ArtFlow for about a year now, and let me tell you, it's like living on junk food. Just because you can do something like that on a smartphone, doesn't mean it makes you an artist. Humans create art for a reason, a reason you have ignored entirely. There's a real sense of accomplishment in doing hard things yourself. It's why I have been a mechanic for 25 years. Co-workers have placed me on a pedestal simply because I know how to fix things. When you eliminate the barrier of entry, you make the process and result worthless.
Not everyone has to be an ace, and that's ok. When you make everyone an ace, then nobody's an ace.
Not everyone has to be an ace, and that's ok. When you make everyone an ace, then nobody's an ace.
SludgeQueen
Account Closed
Sat, Jun 29, 2024"Frankly a Brilliant move by Daz/Tafi"
Are you serious? like no I actually need to know. You are seriously being serious?.
How ridiculous, your assertion is it's great because people who don't have the machines (meaning the talent) to put the grind in and work at something earnestly can just hit some buttons. Clearly if you think this is such a good idea you have not been a Daz user long enough. Maybe it's a little more accepted now, but I have been using Daz since Vicky 2, I remember being called a fake artist so many times and my work being discredited for it. Now people here for the most part understand the hard work that goes into creating good stuff with Daz, this introduction is only going t discredit Daz artists even more. I don't care what the minority of non-artists say, the majority agree ai users are NOT artists. I am not going to get into squabbles about using ai tools in workflow, look everything is a tool, but this is not a tool, this is Daz literal text to Image generation, that is not art, that is an abomination. Use ai for concepting if you can't draw, use it for making seamless textures or even upscaling, but straight up image generation an hen calling yourself an artist? No, most people do not agree with this and moves lek this are Daz humiliating their veteran and loyal users "frankly"
Are you serious? like no I actually need to know. You are seriously being serious?.
How ridiculous, your assertion is it's great because people who don't have the machines (meaning the talent) to put the grind in and work at something earnestly can just hit some buttons. Clearly if you think this is such a good idea you have not been a Daz user long enough. Maybe it's a little more accepted now, but I have been using Daz since Vicky 2, I remember being called a fake artist so many times and my work being discredited for it. Now people here for the most part understand the hard work that goes into creating good stuff with Daz, this introduction is only going t discredit Daz artists even more. I don't care what the minority of non-artists say, the majority agree ai users are NOT artists. I am not going to get into squabbles about using ai tools in workflow, look everything is a tool, but this is not a tool, this is Daz literal text to Image generation, that is not art, that is an abomination. Use ai for concepting if you can't draw, use it for making seamless textures or even upscaling, but straight up image generation an hen calling yourself an artist? No, most people do not agree with this and moves lek this are Daz humiliating their veteran and loyal users "frankly"
From what info I can gather so far, it seems they are using SDXL and a LORA they trained on top of SDXL with images they own. I think the fact they used SDXL is gonna piss off the AI haters, they just put a target on their backside, unless the AI hater brigade never catch wind of it. Forums might be a bumpy ride soon lol.
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It's just a sub model for DAZ. The NFT didn't work out so now the company is clamoring for a sub model based on the latest trend. From a certain standpoint it makes sense; DAZ has a huge repository of 3D assets that can be thrown into the digital AI meatgrinder. And asset makers can't do squat about it.
I've seen DAZ do a lot of stupid things over the years. Throwing out perfectly good figures (and this includes some Genesis iterations) to boost continued asset sales. DRM. NFTs. And now AI image generation. Meanwhile programs like Hexagon, Carrara and Bryce have continued to languish. They're one step away from abandonware. Bryan Brandenburg may not be around any more (and don't ask what happened as it isn't pretty) but boy was he spot-on with his assessment of the company when it decided to develop Genesis. Threw Poser under the bus. DAZ made *the* premier figure set for Poser before it bought a bunch of old software. Figured it would make more money by making Genesis proprietary to the point where it can only be used in Studio. DAZ had been dying for the opportunity to put Poser out of business; it partially succeeded, as Poser could be a lot better than it is. A website service run by unpaid volunteers had to buy it just to keep it on life support. It's the only software that can create conforming clothing. That doesn't matter to all y'all but it matters to me. I've explained it before but there are some very good reasons for me not moving to Genesis.
I left a comment on their Youtube post; "We are now witnessing a company cannibalizing itself". The company is now throwing all of its asset creators under the bus. I saw it coming. What's sad is, DAZ bought all of the major independent Studio/Poser content stores. Of course it did that to try to eliminate the competition. Now there are only two left; Renderosity, and RenderHub. Long-term I see very little future in either storefront. Sure, people will shift over, but this cannot be sustained. We've already reached character saturation here, and that's been the case at Renderosity for many years now. Who's using Genesis 9? Can you imagine the amount of assets everyone would have to buy just to keep up??? Asset creators have no love of the figure either. I have heard that developing for it is a dumpster fire, with a steep financial commitment to get a foot in the door.
If you've wondered whether or not DAZ cares about its customer base, now you know. It doesn't. It hasn't cared for over a decade. Now, I predict that this new feature won't make a whole lot of money. DAZ is once again a day late and a dollar short. But to take datasets that were learned elsewhere, and add all of its 3D assets to the dataset and effectively double-charge its customers, that's beyond the pale.
My guess is that DAZ needs another cash infusion, as it pretty much went all-in with NFT metaverse garbage and a figure update that almost nobody is using. So, throw a sub fee on top of paid-for assets to make 3D scene generation a little bit easier. But really, how easy does it need to be??? 3D work by its very nature is deep with a very steep learning curve for a reason. And working in Studio is one or two steps up from GMod, MMD and HoneySelect now. When you eliminate that skill barrier, it devalues everything. It's going the same way as music did. Record a hit song now, and you won't put food on your table unless Spotify plays the song 10 billion times. It's incredibly easy to make music now, but nobody can make a dime on it any more. That's exactly what this DAZ AI generator is. It isn't "democratizing" art, it's shifting the profit generation from artists to corporations. It's finally happening; artists being enslaved financially by corporate interests. It's a race to the bottom. I shoud start drawing again, and get good at it. Because it's pretty damned hard to put a pencil and paper behind a subscription paywall.
I've seen DAZ do a lot of stupid things over the years. Throwing out perfectly good figures (and this includes some Genesis iterations) to boost continued asset sales. DRM. NFTs. And now AI image generation. Meanwhile programs like Hexagon, Carrara and Bryce have continued to languish. They're one step away from abandonware. Bryan Brandenburg may not be around any more (and don't ask what happened as it isn't pretty) but boy was he spot-on with his assessment of the company when it decided to develop Genesis. Threw Poser under the bus. DAZ made *the* premier figure set for Poser before it bought a bunch of old software. Figured it would make more money by making Genesis proprietary to the point where it can only be used in Studio. DAZ had been dying for the opportunity to put Poser out of business; it partially succeeded, as Poser could be a lot better than it is. A website service run by unpaid volunteers had to buy it just to keep it on life support. It's the only software that can create conforming clothing. That doesn't matter to all y'all but it matters to me. I've explained it before but there are some very good reasons for me not moving to Genesis.
I left a comment on their Youtube post; "We are now witnessing a company cannibalizing itself". The company is now throwing all of its asset creators under the bus. I saw it coming. What's sad is, DAZ bought all of the major independent Studio/Poser content stores. Of course it did that to try to eliminate the competition. Now there are only two left; Renderosity, and RenderHub. Long-term I see very little future in either storefront. Sure, people will shift over, but this cannot be sustained. We've already reached character saturation here, and that's been the case at Renderosity for many years now. Who's using Genesis 9? Can you imagine the amount of assets everyone would have to buy just to keep up??? Asset creators have no love of the figure either. I have heard that developing for it is a dumpster fire, with a steep financial commitment to get a foot in the door.
If you've wondered whether or not DAZ cares about its customer base, now you know. It doesn't. It hasn't cared for over a decade. Now, I predict that this new feature won't make a whole lot of money. DAZ is once again a day late and a dollar short. But to take datasets that were learned elsewhere, and add all of its 3D assets to the dataset and effectively double-charge its customers, that's beyond the pale.
My guess is that DAZ needs another cash infusion, as it pretty much went all-in with NFT metaverse garbage and a figure update that almost nobody is using. So, throw a sub fee on top of paid-for assets to make 3D scene generation a little bit easier. But really, how easy does it need to be??? 3D work by its very nature is deep with a very steep learning curve for a reason. And working in Studio is one or two steps up from GMod, MMD and HoneySelect now. When you eliminate that skill barrier, it devalues everything. It's going the same way as music did. Record a hit song now, and you won't put food on your table unless Spotify plays the song 10 billion times. It's incredibly easy to make music now, but nobody can make a dime on it any more. That's exactly what this DAZ AI generator is. It isn't "democratizing" art, it's shifting the profit generation from artists to corporations. It's finally happening; artists being enslaved financially by corporate interests. It's a race to the bottom. I shoud start drawing again, and get good at it. Because it's pretty damned hard to put a pencil and paper behind a subscription paywall.
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! REPORT
MKDAWUSS
Karma: 50,205
Thu, Apr 04, 2024"DAZ is once again a day late and a dollar short." Which is what generally happens when you're chasing the FOTM. What are they going to do once the AI craze fizzles out? Or at least the current form of AI usage.
As for DAZ assets and AI, sounds like a certain section of their CC base are about to get shoved aside during this time - if I don't need everything to generate an AI render, why run out and buy it? If DAZ AI can spawn its own pose, why bother either buying a pose pack or setting up the pose myself? If DAZ AI knows who a certain celebrity is, why buy the lookalike? I'll just load the scene, produce some prompt, and let DAZ AI do the rest, bypassing a few otherwise needed assets. If I need Model A, Outfit B, Scene C, and Pose D for it to do its thing, I really don't need DAZ AI to spawn a render as I at that point have all I need for that render. I think their *in* crowd will be just fine, though.
I myself could maybe get a use out of DAZ AI if it does certain styles, like makes a medieval render look like a painting, but if it just puts out standard AI imagery with DAZ assets tacked on, I have a hard time seeing myself hop on this trend.
As for DAZ assets and AI, sounds like a certain section of their CC base are about to get shoved aside during this time - if I don't need everything to generate an AI render, why run out and buy it? If DAZ AI can spawn its own pose, why bother either buying a pose pack or setting up the pose myself? If DAZ AI knows who a certain celebrity is, why buy the lookalike? I'll just load the scene, produce some prompt, and let DAZ AI do the rest, bypassing a few otherwise needed assets. If I need Model A, Outfit B, Scene C, and Pose D for it to do its thing, I really don't need DAZ AI to spawn a render as I at that point have all I need for that render. I think their *in* crowd will be just fine, though.
I myself could maybe get a use out of DAZ AI if it does certain styles, like makes a medieval render look like a painting, but if it just puts out standard AI imagery with DAZ assets tacked on, I have a hard time seeing myself hop on this trend.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Thu, Apr 04, 2024Tech companies in general, have really jumped the shark. And I am hoping they all eat each other alive. The aftermath will make the dot.com bubble look like a hiccup.
I generated an image "cheering crowd" to see if it was portrait oriented or not. It generated a passable crowd pretty quickly. Pretty easy to use and as mentioned by Anabran above the price point of 3.99/month is less than a new GPU. To me this is a novelty. If I ever get around to making a comic this would be an easy background panel covered with dialog. Might be good for story boards. Could be useful as a billboard. The later assumes all the legal stuff get worked out. And I have to wonder how long the 3.99/month thing will last.
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So what's this going to do for (or to) RenderHub? It wasn't that long ago when the site made its stance pretty clear on AI - complete with the "NO AI" contest! - and now there's this merge between DAZ Studio and AI. Someone now could accurately check the DAZ Studio box under the "software used" tab on an image spawned by AI.
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guy91600
Karma: 13,043
Thu, Apr 04, 2024I think one answer for the gallery might be to create a special gallery for DAZ AI Studio, as this option will distinguish "hand-made" images from generated ones.
Foxy 3D
Admin: 58,233
Thu, Apr 04, 2024@MKDAWUSS - "...Someone now could accurately check the DAZ Studio box under the software used..."
They *could* - but it wouldn't be accurate. Using "Daz AI" is not using the "Daz Studio software".
@guy91600 - "...create a special gallery for DAZ AI Studio..."
I don't see that happening. For a while now, there has been a report button for "AI Generated".
Just because it's Daz/Tafi doing this now, I don't think RenderHub will change from being a *3D* community.
They *could* - but it wouldn't be accurate. Using "Daz AI" is not using the "Daz Studio software".
@guy91600 - "...create a special gallery for DAZ AI Studio..."
I don't see that happening. For a while now, there has been a report button for "AI Generated".
Just because it's Daz/Tafi doing this now, I don't think RenderHub will change from being a *3D* community.
guy91600
Karma: 13,043
Thu, Apr 04, 2024The idea of my previous intervention was not to mix images generated by AI with images created by humans.
I appreciate that RenderHub refuses to host anything from AI and to reserve this space for humans.
I appreciate that RenderHub refuses to host anything from AI and to reserve this space for humans.
I tested this thing, with my favorite AI request (automatic stupidity)
to draw for myself a sheep with 5 legs grazing in a field
Here is the result
No matter how much I enlarge it, I can't see my 5th leg, and in the sheep my favorite piece is the leg
to draw for myself a sheep with 5 legs grazing in a field
Here is the result
No matter how much I enlarge it, I can't see my 5th leg, and in the sheep my favorite piece is the leg
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Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Thu, Apr 04, 2024*lol* I know, that midjourney can do this job (almost).
I tried and got one with 6 legs
I tried and got one with 6 legs
what drives these fads? money normally from us who pay.
daz will dry up and have no real turnover if it turns it's back on the artist / model makers and customers.
It may make a few extra sales in the short term but eventually it will run out of paying customers. Indy game engines are abundant and the potential of building an alternative render and posing engine are getting more likely every day.
This problem is happening in every industry. The speech ai is not ai at all but the next generation of search engine. I cant remember the correct terms but this ai is a substitute, a gimmick although at times a very useful gimmick.
An example of using ai for coding is the system can only code things that have been invented already.
Lets ask ai to make a drone, great it can do that using the data already online. now ask it to make a "dronacaphone" the system would have no idea what that is because i just made up a silly word. Ai has no sense of humor or depth. history or the many contradictions that make great art. A pretty picture generator is what daz will become if it follows the ai path too far.
Why not use ai in a good way like the ssim rendering. speed up rendering. use the tool wisely.
Plugins, scripts, ai coding assistants all break regularly and NEED A PERSON TO FIX THEM.
All the recent announcements about how great ai has become are all from corporations with stake holders to impress so they can get more money out of them. They are not pitching to us, they are pitching for more funding. Their aint no real AI and probably never will be
daz will dry up and have no real turnover if it turns it's back on the artist / model makers and customers.
It may make a few extra sales in the short term but eventually it will run out of paying customers. Indy game engines are abundant and the potential of building an alternative render and posing engine are getting more likely every day.
This problem is happening in every industry. The speech ai is not ai at all but the next generation of search engine. I cant remember the correct terms but this ai is a substitute, a gimmick although at times a very useful gimmick.
An example of using ai for coding is the system can only code things that have been invented already.
Lets ask ai to make a drone, great it can do that using the data already online. now ask it to make a "dronacaphone" the system would have no idea what that is because i just made up a silly word. Ai has no sense of humor or depth. history or the many contradictions that make great art. A pretty picture generator is what daz will become if it follows the ai path too far.
Why not use ai in a good way like the ssim rendering. speed up rendering. use the tool wisely.
Plugins, scripts, ai coding assistants all break regularly and NEED A PERSON TO FIX THEM.
All the recent announcements about how great ai has become are all from corporations with stake holders to impress so they can get more money out of them. They are not pitching to us, they are pitching for more funding. Their aint no real AI and probably never will be
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"I'll fire up the popcorn maker. Free beer tomorrow, too."
Hahahaha...
After the NFT debacle, I'm not surprised that DAZ jumped on the AI art wagon. Dissappointed, but not surprised.
Meh....
Hahahaha...
After the NFT debacle, I'm not surprised that DAZ jumped on the AI art wagon. Dissappointed, but not surprised.
Meh....
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"When you eliminate the barrier of entry, you make the process and result worthless."
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@Pinspotter
I am primarily an animator.
and 3D content creator
https://www.blendernation.com/2020/04/29/behind-the-scenes-sci-fi-armor/
For many years animators could not afford expensive programs like 3Dmax or Maya
Blender is free and open source which removed a "barrier of entry "to 3D modeling and animation.
by your "logic" EVERYTHING produced By a Blender Artist's is "worthless" because they have no "paid their dues" to the Mighty Autodesk
Just as Daz studio users have to worship at the altar of a trillion dollar company ( NVIDIA) to use IRay effectively
and since you are being so reductive ,I assume you do not buy any consumer products until you verify that the Art on the packaging was created by a human artist
Yes??
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@Pinspotter
I am primarily an animator.
and 3D content creator
https://www.blendernation.com/2020/04/29/behind-the-scenes-sci-fi-armor/
For many years animators could not afford expensive programs like 3Dmax or Maya
Blender is free and open source which removed a "barrier of entry "to 3D modeling and animation.
by your "logic" EVERYTHING produced By a Blender Artist's is "worthless" because they have no "paid their dues" to the Mighty Autodesk
Just as Daz studio users have to worship at the altar of a trillion dollar company ( NVIDIA) to use IRay effectively
and since you are being so reductive ,I assume you do not buy any consumer products until you verify that the Art on the packaging was created by a human artist
Yes??
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! REPORT
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Thu, Apr 04, 2024Blender did not "eliminate" a barrier of entry. It removed (somewhat) the barrier of monetary cost. You still have to download and install, and learn how to use it. There's still a barrier but it's mostly in spent time learning. And for the record I have invested over 100$ (so far) in Blender addons which in many cases is necessary to get certain things done efficiently.
You're then assuming that I am a fan of Autodesk. Anyone who has known me for more than a week, knows that is not the case, at all. You should know what happens when we assume.....
The barrier I speak of has to do with learning skills. When you make it so that you don't need any skill at all in 3D scene rendering, who then will even bother learning the skill in order to make a rendered piece "their own"? When your result is "good enough"? People, by their very nature, will follow the path of least resistance. At least, until one of two things happen; either they become bored and move on, or they become bored and want something more fulfilling.
Now, when Google image search is flooded with trash AI generated images to the point where it's hard to find something original made by a Human, you have a real problem. You get people who have no skill or creativity, suddenly thinking that they're artists because a set of algorithms spat out something "good enough". It's roughly equal to a participation trophy., with a deep shade of Dunning-Krueger thrown in.
You're then assuming that I am a fan of Autodesk. Anyone who has known me for more than a week, knows that is not the case, at all. You should know what happens when we assume.....
The barrier I speak of has to do with learning skills. When you make it so that you don't need any skill at all in 3D scene rendering, who then will even bother learning the skill in order to make a rendered piece "their own"? When your result is "good enough"? People, by their very nature, will follow the path of least resistance. At least, until one of two things happen; either they become bored and move on, or they become bored and want something more fulfilling.
Now, when Google image search is flooded with trash AI generated images to the point where it's hard to find something original made by a Human, you have a real problem. You get people who have no skill or creativity, suddenly thinking that they're artists because a set of algorithms spat out something "good enough". It's roughly equal to a participation trophy., with a deep shade of Dunning-Krueger thrown in.
GigaJannyMonster666
Karma: 128
Mon, Apr 29, 2024respectfully disagree here. As a programmer, I think that's roughly the equivalent of a C programmer saying that Javascript and Python developers aren't real programmers. That was the boomer discourse maybe a decade ago, but those particular boomers are probably out of the workforce entirely now and so their opinion doesn't matter.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Mon, Apr 29, 2024Javascript and Python are still languages And that's a lot different from, say, entering a prompted phrase in ChatGPT and having an algorithm spit out code for you. That's what AI "artists" do via image prompts. Your statement is a false equivalency.
Being able to draw a specific ellipse on paper with a pen would be, say, a LISP programmer. Using Photoshop and Lazy Nezumi to assist in drawing that same ellipse digitally would be Python programming. Using Krita's drawing assistant to draw an ellipse for you would be "programming" via ChatGPT.
Your mention of "boomers" kinda gives you away but nice try. Let's stay on topic, shall we? I incinerate strawmen.
Being able to draw a specific ellipse on paper with a pen would be, say, a LISP programmer. Using Photoshop and Lazy Nezumi to assist in drawing that same ellipse digitally would be Python programming. Using Krita's drawing assistant to draw an ellipse for you would be "programming" via ChatGPT.
Your mention of "boomers" kinda gives you away but nice try. Let's stay on topic, shall we? I incinerate strawmen.
Sadly, the Daz forums are so bent on censorship of dissenting talk, that not much of what we're reading here would last more than a couple hours over there.
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ArtbyMel
Karma: 10,732
Thu, Apr 04, 2024They have already deleted a bunch of stuff from users who are not remotely happy about this.
Anabran
Karma: 2,603
Thu, Apr 04, 2024I question how many of those angry dissenters will actually boycott Daz entirely and uninstall Daz studio?
Where will they Go?
Poser is vestigial necroware not even worth the $250 USD to say nothing of its poor quality native figures.
Reallusion Iclone/CC4 has a $900 Dollar buy in but its native figure are better than poser and it imports/converts Daz genesis figures and clothings.
I predict that after all of the virtue signaling and angry screeds, that the majority of the DS user base will stay in the Daz eco system and rush headlong to install DS 5 (when it releases) along with Genesis 10 when it eventually arrives as well.
Where will they Go?
Poser is vestigial necroware not even worth the $250 USD to say nothing of its poor quality native figures.
Reallusion Iclone/CC4 has a $900 Dollar buy in but its native figure are better than poser and it imports/converts Daz genesis figures and clothings.
I predict that after all of the virtue signaling and angry screeds, that the majority of the DS user base will stay in the Daz eco system and rush headlong to install DS 5 (when it releases) along with Genesis 10 when it eventually arrives as well.
ArtbyMel
Karma: 10,732
Thu, Apr 04, 2024Some will, some won't. Some will choose to continue to support the vendors because they feel that is the right thing to do. Some will not because they feel that is giving money to Daz to continue to invest poorly. Some won't care either way.
protosynthetic
Karma: 2,124
Thu, Apr 04, 2024"Where will they go"? I mean, once you own your assets, you own your assets. Just because you stop buying doesn't mean you have to stop using it. But for plug-ins' sake, it would probably be best to freeze at the Studio version you currently have. If Daz was a subscription service, I could see it being a valid problem, but it's not.
protosynthetic
Karma: 2,124
Thu, Apr 04, 2024I do go scorched earth every time they pull an random but unrelated rule when they delete one of my forum posts, though. I get that notification in my email, I reply with "All right, you delete me, I delete you," then proceed to refund every purchase from the last 30 days, because I don't play that.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Thu, Apr 04, 2024Now, just because I don't agree with Orson Scott Card, that doesn't mean I suddenly stop liking his books. Anyone can use his/her own discretion in such matters.
As far as DAZ is concerned, I reduced my purchases there by around 99% a long, long time ago. Once every few years the company throws me a coupon that allows me to buy one thing on my wishlist for a dollar or two. My forum posts there were purged back when the Reality plug-in was a thing, and DRM was frst introduced. I don't post any art there, and I won't buy any assets that are tied to Genesis. But I still use Studio, it's what I know for character design. DAZ gets very, very little of my money. And I'd argue that just by continuing to use Studio, if enough people take their money elsewhere, it will cost DAZ more to continue to support Studio.
As far as DAZ is concerned, I reduced my purchases there by around 99% a long, long time ago. Once every few years the company throws me a coupon that allows me to buy one thing on my wishlist for a dollar or two. My forum posts there were purged back when the Reality plug-in was a thing, and DRM was frst introduced. I don't post any art there, and I won't buy any assets that are tied to Genesis. But I still use Studio, it's what I know for character design. DAZ gets very, very little of my money. And I'd argue that just by continuing to use Studio, if enough people take their money elsewhere, it will cost DAZ more to continue to support Studio.
kwerkx
Karma: 6,147
Fri, Apr 05, 2024Pinspotter: Good books. Good sentiment.
Anabran: As my spending at Daz goes down, iClone/CC4 is looks like a viable alternative at least for me.
Anabran: As my spending at Daz goes down, iClone/CC4 is looks like a viable alternative at least for me.
I tried to get the free version to generate an image of; 'Naked elf with big boobs'
It spins it's wheels and looks like it's doing something.....a long time passes and still nothing.......
Either it's confused by such common words or has the Daz Prudishness personality trait programmed into it
Deviant Art's Ai doesn't like such words as nude, naked, boobs or breasts...so they may be related
Also it looks like you can only use the assets they provide at Daz studio?
I saw no way to access my extensive library of sexy clothing and barely there bikinis (none purchased at Daz)
It spins it's wheels and looks like it's doing something.....a long time passes and still nothing.......
Either it's confused by such common words or has the Daz Prudishness personality trait programmed into it
Deviant Art's Ai doesn't like such words as nude, naked, boobs or breasts...so they may be related
Also it looks like you can only use the assets they provide at Daz studio?
I saw no way to access my extensive library of sexy clothing and barely there bikinis (none purchased at Daz)
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guy91600
Karma: 13,043
Thu, Apr 04, 2024C'est une bonne nouvelle que L'AI de daz studio filtre certains mots cls, cela nous permet de continuer crer des morphs, des vetements bass sur ces mots censurs sans la concurence de l'AI
guy91600
Karma: 13,043
Thu, Apr 04, 2024It's good news that daz studio's AI filters out certain keywords, allowing us to continue creating morphs and garments based on these censored words without the competition of the AI
Ragamuffin
Karma: 654
Thu, Apr 04, 2024I mean, it's almost certainly as fragile as all the other examples of "filter" or "blocks" with these things have been...that is to say it's just a matter of getting the right prompt injection attack built (this is a general problem with the technology, much like hallucinations, where the fact that the models don't "understand" anything means there's essentially always an infinite space of possible failures...all you can do is tamp down ones you know about)
If I had more free time or felt pettier about it, I would spend some time experimenting with prompt injections to see if I could get it to make something embarrassing and/or damaging to the brand (for example, producing something that's a clear copyright violation against an especially litigious target like Nintendo or Disney), because I see no reason to think they've managed to solve this unsolvable problem.
If I had more free time or felt pettier about it, I would spend some time experimenting with prompt injections to see if I could get it to make something embarrassing and/or damaging to the brand (for example, producing something that's a clear copyright violation against an especially litigious target like Nintendo or Disney), because I see no reason to think they've managed to solve this unsolvable problem.
protosynthetic
Karma: 2,124
Fri, Apr 05, 2024True. "In the buff" and "Skinny dipping in ankle-deep water" are examples of the language model understanding older phrases that coders wouldn't think to screen out.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Fri, Apr 05, 2024You can poison the model quite easily just by prompting anything in "Frozen style", the characters I can have generated in that style over in Artflow is uncanny.
kwerkx
Karma: 6,147
Fri, Apr 05, 2024Yeah pin up girl laying on car generated a monstrosity with two bums that was both sitting and laying on the hood of a car.
If ai could actually be used with a loaded figure or character and download from as a figure would be cool!? You can only download the picture it creates. You cant use your content with it then I deem it pointless? Ai art apps are going to put artists out of business? Theres already an abundance of apps that are doing the work that we would normally do as artists. My two cents
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Never underestimate DAZ's ability to get suckered in by the next shiny thing, and it will probably fail just like everything else that they've tried: content encryption (which cost them tons of lost sales and canceled memberships), game asset versions of in-store content (which no one asked for and no one is buying), NFTs (a scam, pure and simple), remote rendering (this actually had potential), and now this.
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protosynthetic
Karma: 2,124
Fri, Apr 05, 2024And unlike NFTs, this will likely cost them more than they can make and therefore be offset into DS asset prices.
kwerkx
Karma: 6,147
Fri, Apr 05, 2024It poisons the well. I have an unpopular opinion that NFT's would have been great for tradable, open market, cross platform game assets (skins, loot, etc); but the mention of NFT is a turn off now. Likewise, AI tools would be neat.. for example a search engine that mocks up of poses or clothes in your library based on a prompt.. lighting.. background generation.. scanners that generate terms to make your library actually searchable.. but I get the feeling small helper tools would be just as unwelcome as AI art.
Katsuyaki
Karma: 2,609
Fri, Apr 05, 2024NFTs are a stupid idea in a digital world. Trying to convince one customer to pay a boatload of money for a single asset when you can create a virtually infinite supply of the same asset and sell them to anyone and everyone at a fraction of the cost -- that better be one God-damn AWESOME asset that one single customer is buying. And most of them aren't even useful in any conceivable way, either. Most aren't even attractive or pleasing to look at. Whoever came up with the idea of NFTs is probably an evil genius who made a crap-load of money off of it at the beginning and then bailed at the earliest opportunity, 'cause they knew it wasn't a sustainable concept once everyone caught on to it.
Sounds like people will need to build their DAZ AI content libraries from scratch, if I'm getting the gist of things.
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Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Fri, Apr 05, 2024Yep, that's generally how it works. And the end result is always a fever-trip into images that look inspired by a bad acid trip. The models need to be constantly re-worked by Human intervention or it all turns into a dumpster fire. The algorithms fall into repeated patterns and it ends up poisoning itself. I've seen it first hand.
I have seen it happen in DALL-E2 and in Artflow. And there's no way for me to "reset" the learned data. if I could, then I could re-teach the algorithms. I can't even do that in C.ai, every chat with a character bot there just ends up going down the same path no matter how hard I try to change it.
I have seen it happen in DALL-E2 and in Artflow. And there's no way for me to "reset" the learned data. if I could, then I could re-teach the algorithms. I can't even do that in C.ai, every chat with a character bot there just ends up going down the same path no matter how hard I try to change it.
The barrier I speak of has to do with learning skills. When you make it so that you don't need any skill at all in 3D scene rendering, who then will even bother learning the skill in order to make a rendered piece "their own"?
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The barrier I speak of has everything do with the initial cost of NEWBIES to enter the Daz ecosystem.
That being a fairly powerful. modern $$$PC$$$ with an expensive $$GPU$$ from one single vendor to render the ridiculous 4-8k textured HD content in the brute force Iray path tracer from NVIDIA.
Desktop PC ownership has been in decline for decades now.
Lay people can generate AI images on any web connected device.
Daz has to try to keep their users on the plantation somehow.
Their AI uses their Genesis 9 figures for consistent characters that you can dress and place in various environment with AI
with a monthly paid tier for the "premium" features.
Daz was rapidly losing its still render portrait render makers to people using midjourney etc with no need for a powerful local PC just an internet connection.
I warned Daz about this in a video last year
they appear to have heeded my warning.
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The barrier I speak of has everything do with the initial cost of NEWBIES to enter the Daz ecosystem.
That being a fairly powerful. modern $$$PC$$$ with an expensive $$GPU$$ from one single vendor to render the ridiculous 4-8k textured HD content in the brute force Iray path tracer from NVIDIA.
Desktop PC ownership has been in decline for decades now.
Lay people can generate AI images on any web connected device.
Daz has to try to keep their users on the plantation somehow.
Their AI uses their Genesis 9 figures for consistent characters that you can dress and place in various environment with AI
with a monthly paid tier for the "premium" features.
Daz was rapidly losing its still render portrait render makers to people using midjourney etc with no need for a powerful local PC just an internet connection.
I warned Daz about this in a video last year
they appear to have heeded my warning.
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! REPORT
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Fri, Apr 05, 2024It's *always* cost money to play in the DAZ walled garden. What's true now, was true 20 years ago.
Now if you want to have a proper debate, let's have one, instead of cherry-picking bits and pieces of each of my posts hoping to invoke me. You're all over the place. Debate my points where they belong, in my original post. I am not going to continue to chase your posts around. Reply to my post so we can have a proper debate.
My computer is 6 years old and cost me less than 800 dollars to build, and if I chose to I could render whatever I want in Iray right now. I know someone who does so with a laptop older than mine, which is around 2 years old. And while her and I no longer speak to each other, her art is good and very effective in expressing herself through artwork. She actually told me recently that I am "obsolete" and use an "obsolete, inferior engine" while others ask me how they can get their characters to look like mine. This is not my first rodeo. I watched two artists completely destroy a DeviantArt group over whether or not a single piece of mine should be "featured". It's not something to brag about. But I've seen every opinion under the Sun.
You, as a fanboi of AI image generation, have come across the wrong person to even consider convincing. I know a whole lot more about AI image generation and 3D art than you realize. You just kicked the beehive.
Now if you want to have a proper debate, let's have one, instead of cherry-picking bits and pieces of each of my posts hoping to invoke me. You're all over the place. Debate my points where they belong, in my original post. I am not going to continue to chase your posts around. Reply to my post so we can have a proper debate.
My computer is 6 years old and cost me less than 800 dollars to build, and if I chose to I could render whatever I want in Iray right now. I know someone who does so with a laptop older than mine, which is around 2 years old. And while her and I no longer speak to each other, her art is good and very effective in expressing herself through artwork. She actually told me recently that I am "obsolete" and use an "obsolete, inferior engine" while others ask me how they can get their characters to look like mine. This is not my first rodeo. I watched two artists completely destroy a DeviantArt group over whether or not a single piece of mine should be "featured". It's not something to brag about. But I've seen every opinion under the Sun.
You, as a fanboi of AI image generation, have come across the wrong person to even consider convincing. I know a whole lot more about AI image generation and 3D art than you realize. You just kicked the beehive.
Anabran
Karma: 2,603
Fri, Apr 05, 2024It's *always* cost money to play in the DAZ walled garden. What's true now, was true 20 years ago.
Now if you want to have a proper debate, let's have one
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Why??I gain nothing by "Debating " you ,or anyone, about generative AI
so sorry but not going to "Debate"about you on the broader question about if generative AI should exist in the world blah blah .., it already does .
This thread is about the new DAZ implementation of generative AI and its potential effects on the Daz ( and Daz adjacent )3D Character markets.
It's just a tool like any other. .
But it s a tool that is a much cheaper option for instant renders of pretty girls etc (for the casual Daz/Poser user) and Daz (Like Poser) has a bleak future, unless they try to leverage the new technology and stay relevant to that pretty picture demographic.
I remain unconvinced that this new mediocre Daz AI generator will make a difference for them in the long run.
But I do understand why they are at least trying, instead burying their heads in the sand and hoping this will all just go away.
AI is Daz's only hope to keep their existing user base
Daz has failed miserably to impress the "pros" from Autodesk, Maxon, Unreal,Unity with their mighty Genesis models.
And Reallusion (unlike Poser)has wisely developed their own family of quality native figures but still can import Daz genesis models& content for those who care to.
I have no personal stake in Daz's future
I use Blender and Maya and Reallusion Iclone for my animated films and mostly rig my own characters for animation.
Now if you want to have a proper debate, let's have one
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why??I gain nothing by "Debating " you ,or anyone, about generative AI
so sorry but not going to "Debate"about you on the broader question about if generative AI should exist in the world blah blah .., it already does .
This thread is about the new DAZ implementation of generative AI and its potential effects on the Daz ( and Daz adjacent )3D Character markets.
It's just a tool like any other. .
But it s a tool that is a much cheaper option for instant renders of pretty girls etc (for the casual Daz/Poser user) and Daz (Like Poser) has a bleak future, unless they try to leverage the new technology and stay relevant to that pretty picture demographic.
I remain unconvinced that this new mediocre Daz AI generator will make a difference for them in the long run.
But I do understand why they are at least trying, instead burying their heads in the sand and hoping this will all just go away.
AI is Daz's only hope to keep their existing user base
Daz has failed miserably to impress the "pros" from Autodesk, Maxon, Unreal,Unity with their mighty Genesis models.
And Reallusion (unlike Poser)has wisely developed their own family of quality native figures but still can import Daz genesis models& content for those who care to.
I have no personal stake in Daz's future
I use Blender and Maya and Reallusion Iclone for my animated films and mostly rig my own characters for animation.
Katsuyaki
Karma: 2,609
Fri, Apr 05, 2024"AI is Daz's only hope to keep their existing user base"
I don't see how DAZ can do anything in terms of AI but fail, and fail hard.
There are already so many options for AI out there right now -- and almost all of them with bigger teams, bigger budgets, and bigger data sets to draw from than DAZ can muster -- and most of them with the support of parent companies willing to support them until they become profitable self-sustaining enterprises. And given how quickly DAZ seems to abandon whatever stupid idea it pulls out of its ass once it realizes that it fucked up, I don't think that they have the determination or resources for a long-term investment like that.
Just like the big game and movie companies have rejected DAZ's 3D modeled assets (you're never gonna see Victoria 9 in a game from Microsoft or a movie by Disney) -- because they have better options available to them -- they're also gonna reject whatever DAZ has cobbled together in terms of AI -- again, because they have better options available to them.
So DAZ is going to have to rely on the same customer base to support its AI offering that it's been relying on to support its 3D modeled content: the casual to semi-pro user. Unfortunately for DAZ, these very same people have access to the same AI systems that the pros do, and the barrier to entry doesn't appear to be all that high, at least in terms of price and use, given how many people I see using them and what they're able to do with it. And the price and difficulty curve will likely only decrease in the future while the capabilities will expand. To say that DAZ is facing an uphill battle jumping into the AI market now is probably a bit of an understatement.
To succeed in AI, DAZ is going to have to offer something really incredible that customers can't get from any existing AI system, or to offer comparable utility at a price customers are willing to pay and that DAZ can make a profit at. And I just don't see that happening.
I don't see how DAZ can do anything in terms of AI but fail, and fail hard.
There are already so many options for AI out there right now -- and almost all of them with bigger teams, bigger budgets, and bigger data sets to draw from than DAZ can muster -- and most of them with the support of parent companies willing to support them until they become profitable self-sustaining enterprises. And given how quickly DAZ seems to abandon whatever stupid idea it pulls out of its ass once it realizes that it fucked up, I don't think that they have the determination or resources for a long-term investment like that.
Just like the big game and movie companies have rejected DAZ's 3D modeled assets (you're never gonna see Victoria 9 in a game from Microsoft or a movie by Disney) -- because they have better options available to them -- they're also gonna reject whatever DAZ has cobbled together in terms of AI -- again, because they have better options available to them.
So DAZ is going to have to rely on the same customer base to support its AI offering that it's been relying on to support its 3D modeled content: the casual to semi-pro user. Unfortunately for DAZ, these very same people have access to the same AI systems that the pros do, and the barrier to entry doesn't appear to be all that high, at least in terms of price and use, given how many people I see using them and what they're able to do with it. And the price and difficulty curve will likely only decrease in the future while the capabilities will expand. To say that DAZ is facing an uphill battle jumping into the AI market now is probably a bit of an understatement.
To succeed in AI, DAZ is going to have to offer something really incredible that customers can't get from any existing AI system, or to offer comparable utility at a price customers are willing to pay and that DAZ can make a profit at. And I just don't see that happening.
Anabran
Karma: 2,603
Fri, Apr 05, 2024Your analysis is quite correct Sir!!.
Dazs biggest flaw has always been in believing that they occupy some rarified strata of unique innovation in everything they
they have done.
They have a level of myopia that I find astounding
When they introduced the original Daz studio & Genesis one, yes it was a great innovation IF COMPARED ONLY TO THE PREVIOUS POSER FORMATTED MODELS functionality inside poser..
They proudly announced their big plans to introduce the professional 3D/CG world of Autodesk, Maxon, Newtek to their new DSON standard format for figure rigging etc.
I warned Dan Farr in their forums that those Maya,Max pros only care about their existing advanced bespoke Character rigs in their production pipelines and I even posted a video example of this Pro Maya veterans Rigging Demo reel
https://www.victorvinyals.com/
I suggested that they focused winning over the existing poser user base first
Dazs response:
Delete my forum post for: Expressing opinion as fact
BTW, the FACT that Poser still exists today, as commercial software( in its abysmal state), is a stunning testament
to the failure of Daz to win over a naturally adjacent user base
yet they thought that the Autodesk & Maxon etc crowd would come scampering to use their pretty girls.
Then they introduced that MCS figure system for the Unity Game dev market ,based on lower poly recycled Genesis 2 figures and content,.
The same tactic of crushing any discussion, within the petty fiefdom of their forums, about the reality of what the Game dev content market is like.
To this Day I have been on restricted ,pre moderated posting in the Daz forums, for over three years whereby my every post must be reviewed (sometimes for hours) before it is approved for public view.
My crime??
Posting Link to their utterly Failed content store page in the unity marketplace.
But hey ,at least Reallusion had adopted the Genesis models for import & animation, as alternatives to their horrible looking
(near minecraft level) Iclone native models at that time.
There was a top page Daz forum sticky thread on exporting your Daz Genesis models to iclone.
Until Reallusion introduced their own Character creator software replete higher quality young, pretty,Ideal BMI ,white women and an optional paid plugin for NVIDIA Iray and Daz promptly burned all bridges with Reallusion and declared them a mostly forbidden subject within the fief.
Dazs biggest flaw has always been in believing that they occupy some rarified strata of unique innovation in everything they
they have done.
They have a level of myopia that I find astounding
When they introduced the original Daz studio & Genesis one, yes it was a great innovation IF COMPARED ONLY TO THE PREVIOUS POSER FORMATTED MODELS functionality inside poser..
They proudly announced their big plans to introduce the professional 3D/CG world of Autodesk, Maxon, Newtek to their new DSON standard format for figure rigging etc.
I warned Dan Farr in their forums that those Maya,Max pros only care about their existing advanced bespoke Character rigs in their production pipelines and I even posted a video example of this Pro Maya veterans Rigging Demo reel
https://www.victorvinyals.com/
I suggested that they focused winning over the existing poser user base first
Dazs response:
Delete my forum post for: Expressing opinion as fact
BTW, the FACT that Poser still exists today, as commercial software( in its abysmal state), is a stunning testament
to the failure of Daz to win over a naturally adjacent user base
yet they thought that the Autodesk & Maxon etc crowd would come scampering to use their pretty girls.
Then they introduced that MCS figure system for the Unity Game dev market ,based on lower poly recycled Genesis 2 figures and content,.
The same tactic of crushing any discussion, within the petty fiefdom of their forums, about the reality of what the Game dev content market is like.
To this Day I have been on restricted ,pre moderated posting in the Daz forums, for over three years whereby my every post must be reviewed (sometimes for hours) before it is approved for public view.
My crime??
Posting Link to their utterly Failed content store page in the unity marketplace.
But hey ,at least Reallusion had adopted the Genesis models for import & animation, as alternatives to their horrible looking
(near minecraft level) Iclone native models at that time.
There was a top page Daz forum sticky thread on exporting your Daz Genesis models to iclone.
Until Reallusion introduced their own Character creator software replete higher quality young, pretty,Ideal BMI ,white women and an optional paid plugin for NVIDIA Iray and Daz promptly burned all bridges with Reallusion and declared them a mostly forbidden subject within the fief.
Katsuyaki
Karma: 2,609
Fri, Apr 05, 2024HA! I'm permanently banned from posting in the DAZ forums for something I said during the content encryption debacle. DAZ had just started introducing encrypted products into the market, and I told them that they needed to flag that crap in a very obvious manner on the product page so that it would be impossible to miss, and that they needed to give the customer the ability to filter out encrypted content from search results if they didn't want to see it. Someone pointed out that DAZ has always had a really good refund policy (which is true), but then I replied that DAZ was counting on people not noticing that they may have accidentally purchased encrypted content until after it was too late to request a refund. (I'm so busy most of the time that I often go weeks between purchasing something before I actually download it.) I explicitly stated that DAZ was relying on their customers stupidity, laziness, or inattentiveness in order to make money off that crap. BOOM! Lifetime ban from posting in the DAZ forums. Thin-skinned fuckers.
But you're absolutely correct. The Genesis figures ARE revolutionary ONLY in their own ecosystem (meaning both DAZ Studio and Poser). But there are tons of reasons the pros don't use DAZ Studio or Poser for their projects, so of course, they have absolutely no reason to use the content made for those ecosystems. If DAZ really wants its stuff to be used in pro-level projects, then it needs to cater to the pros, and not to the customer base it already has. And good luck with that, tho' it sounds like a recipe for disaster to me: too much already-existing and well-established competition in that market, and it means losing the patronage of the customers you booted to court someone else.
As for Poser, I've said that it needs to become open-source so that anyone who wants to can improve it as they see fit rather than wait for whoever currently owns it to churn out a new version. You could multiple teams adding different capabilities (some of which might be modular, so that they could be used across versions). I bought versions 9 through 11, but I won't buy it ever again (to me, working in Poser is like trying to tie your shoes while wearing boxing gloves), and especially not with that odious need-to-be-connected-so-it-can-dial-home-periodically requirement.
But you're absolutely correct. The Genesis figures ARE revolutionary ONLY in their own ecosystem (meaning both DAZ Studio and Poser). But there are tons of reasons the pros don't use DAZ Studio or Poser for their projects, so of course, they have absolutely no reason to use the content made for those ecosystems. If DAZ really wants its stuff to be used in pro-level projects, then it needs to cater to the pros, and not to the customer base it already has. And good luck with that, tho' it sounds like a recipe for disaster to me: too much already-existing and well-established competition in that market, and it means losing the patronage of the customers you booted to court someone else.
As for Poser, I've said that it needs to become open-source so that anyone who wants to can improve it as they see fit rather than wait for whoever currently owns it to churn out a new version. You could multiple teams adding different capabilities (some of which might be modular, so that they could be used across versions). I bought versions 9 through 11, but I won't buy it ever again (to me, working in Poser is like trying to tie your shoes while wearing boxing gloves), and especially not with that odious need-to-be-connected-so-it-can-dial-home-periodically requirement.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Fri, Apr 05, 2024"Why??I gain nothing by "Debating " you ,or anyone, about generative AI
so sorry but not going to "Debate"about you on the broader question about if generative AI should exist in the world blah blah .., it already does ."
Looks like I won by default *shrug*
so sorry but not going to "Debate"about you on the broader question about if generative AI should exist in the world blah blah .., it already does ."
Looks like I won by default *shrug*
MKDAWUSS
Karma: 50,205
Fri, Apr 05, 2024So what should DAZ do if they want to survive? Or is the only option left for them is to admit their time has come and gone?
DoroThee237
Karma: 13,426
Sat, Apr 06, 2024From what I understand of Daz's business strategy is to target individuals. A bit like the manufacturers of anchor jet printers do. Make nothing on the main product by selling it at or near cost price and make the profit on the consumable products, the ink for the printers and for DAZ the environments. and clothes. This has been working for years so why look for another business model? The day they start to lose, you have to stop everything. Thats what a lot of companies do, file for bankruptcy. If there is a buyer and he manages to relaunch the company, it's perfect for the employees.
protosynthetic
Karma: 2,124
Sat, Apr 06, 2024That whole "Expressing opinion as fact" thing is what gets me. You can expressly state that it's an opinion and they'll still hit you with it.
One time it was when I quoted something a pair PAs publicly typed out in chat during one of their livestreams. Like no, it's fact, they said it, it's still there. I'm sorry that what they said violated their NDAs, but they said it, it's public, deal with it.
"You hit a point that's a little too on the nose or might stir up shit not in our favor" is not a rule break. That's precisely what tipped me in favor of nuking my previous month's purchases each time they do it to me, and I noted that in my email reply right before hitting support for those refunds. And not to store credit either, I waited the full week and a half for that money to go back to my account.
One time it was when I quoted something a pair PAs publicly typed out in chat during one of their livestreams. Like no, it's fact, they said it, it's still there. I'm sorry that what they said violated their NDAs, but they said it, it's public, deal with it.
"You hit a point that's a little too on the nose or might stir up shit not in our favor" is not a rule break. That's precisely what tipped me in favor of nuking my previous month's purchases each time they do it to me, and I noted that in my email reply right before hitting support for those refunds. And not to store credit either, I waited the full week and a half for that money to go back to my account.
"From what I understand of Daz's business strategy is to target individuals. A bit like the manufacturers of anchor jet printers do. Make nothing on the main product by selling it at or near cost price and make the profit on the consumable products"
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Yes it is a classic "loss leader" strategy
Daz studio being the loss leader product.
however their primary user demographic is the casual hobbyist who made pretty pictures (mostly of attractive people)
Over time the Genesis figures became the "Root" of the content
eco system. each new iteration cleverly breaking compatibility with the content of the previous iteration just enough to require more buying from a captive user base.
A cynical but effective strategy until generative AI
Made it possible to create nice still pictures of attractive people with little to no investment software or expensive hardware with NVIDIA GPU's etc.
Many user on the Daz forums reported ,last year, that Daz quietly sent out a survey asking them why they have reduced their frequency of purchasing products from the Daz store, asking them outright was it because they are using AI generators instead.
Clearly alot the respondents told the harsh truth and answered ..Yes.
So Daz seems to have implemented a very bare bones version of stable diffusion that is data trained on the genesis 9 base figures.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it is a classic "loss leader" strategy
Daz studio being the loss leader product.
however their primary user demographic is the casual hobbyist who made pretty pictures (mostly of attractive people)
Over time the Genesis figures became the "Root" of the content
eco system. each new iteration cleverly breaking compatibility with the content of the previous iteration just enough to require more buying from a captive user base.
A cynical but effective strategy until generative AI
Made it possible to create nice still pictures of attractive people with little to no investment software or expensive hardware with NVIDIA GPU's etc.
Many user on the Daz forums reported ,last year, that Daz quietly sent out a survey asking them why they have reduced their frequency of purchasing products from the Daz store, asking them outright was it because they are using AI generators instead.
Clearly alot the respondents told the harsh truth and answered ..Yes.
So Daz seems to have implemented a very bare bones version of stable diffusion that is data trained on the genesis 9 base figures.
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I admit that I was a tad bit upset a bit at Daz because if there is something they should focus on it's the software itself. Innovation. Optimizing it so it can run on low end rigs. Carrara 9 would be great, but nope. Anyhow, when you really look at it, AI is a tool. For example for someone it can be used for background or to give a general sense of the idea for the character you want to make. I tried for my own character's and not a single result was consistent. You can't create a comic for example or a concept art due to it. Also, eventually it might come to the scenario where AI will feed off AI. AI fails, when you really think on it, because it just can't process experience. It can only process what it thinks something looks like.
I just hope Das doesn't go the route DA went where they featured people on their site that sold a lot of prints done sorely with AI.
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GigaJannyMonster666
Karma: 128
Sun, Apr 28, 2024There is something called a LORA (basically an add-on that puts face filters or a particular background or lighting styles on the output of Stable Diffusion). And artists have been able make a character LORA. A LORA that outputs a particular face and physique for the person in the image.
I don't know how to make a LORA, but there are a bunch of developers on Fiverr who will train a LORA for a particular portrait. And they do it for cheap. You can look on Civitai and some of those Fiverr developers have free, downloadable character LORAs they've contributed to Civitai.
The LORA technique it how they were able to make those pics of Taylor Swift, probably.
I don't know how to make a LORA, but there are a bunch of developers on Fiverr who will train a LORA for a particular portrait. And they do it for cheap. You can look on Civitai and some of those Fiverr developers have free, downloadable character LORAs they've contributed to Civitai.
The LORA technique it how they were able to make those pics of Taylor Swift, probably.
Hello, I didn't want to get into this topic but let's jump into the pool. I use an IA FaceApp program in my workflow to mix two faces of my characters and create a third and then pass it on to daz. For personal and family reasons I almost don't release material. For personal work I usually do work with my characters... with SD Forge and Photoshop CS6... if you use the new versions of PS they also have AI. Overall, AI is here to stay... and it is a tool that you have to know how to use... A knife can be used to cut vegetables or kill someone but it is not the knife's fault.
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Bonjour,
apres avoir lu tous les commentaires, je n'ai qu'un avis a donner, je m'amuser avec
j'ai quand meme fait un petit topo pour ceux qui voudraient s'amuser aussi
)
http://dchacornac.free.fr/la3d/daz420/daz4209.htm
amicalement, Dany
Good morning,
after reading all the comments, I only have one opinion to give, I have fun with it
I still made a little guide for those who would like to have fun too)
http://dchacornac.free.fr/la3d/daz420/daz4209.htm
Kind regards, Dany
apres avoir lu tous les commentaires, je n'ai qu'un avis a donner, je m'amuser avec
j'ai quand meme fait un petit topo pour ceux qui voudraient s'amuser aussi
)http://dchacornac.free.fr/la3d/daz420/daz4209.htm
amicalement, Dany
Good morning,
after reading all the comments, I only have one opinion to give, I have fun with it
I still made a little guide for those who would like to have fun too
)http://dchacornac.free.fr/la3d/daz420/daz4209.htm
Kind regards, Dany
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! REPORT
guy91600
Karma: 13,043
Sat, Apr 20, 2024You could have specified that your site dealt with 3D http://dchacornac.free.fr/la3d/la3d14.htm
That it is exclusively in French
That it is exclusively in French
Personally I have no interest in AI, we will see works that are all the same, like the wave of images that intoxicate the various platforms, Daz's choice to implement it is a contradiction (because daz artists no longer have space) it is clear that it has no no interest in its customers.
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Daz's implmentation of AI generation is a typical "McDonalds playground" strategy.
The Mcdonalds fast food chain on, the east coast, use to offer an indoor childrens "playground with slides etc just to keep the parents onsite( and potentially spending) while the kids played on the plastic playground.
Here is the reality: I support genesis 8-9 because there remains a commercial demand for their products for now
If you take away Genesis, Daz has Nothing to offer the 3D/CG market ..nothing.
they pad their discussion forums with vestigial necroware that
no one actually uses for any modern 3D/CG production .
I challenge anyone to show me an active online user community for
Bryce ,Carrarra or Hexagon outside of the Daz forums.
They have a Poser forum, which is technically a
,Direct competitor in this space, when None of the current Daz figure line or content will function in poser.
The latest G9 imports to Reallusion Iclone/CC4 but no detailed discussion of Iclone's features are tolerated.
Daz forum activity and engagement has been on the decline since the advent of Midjourney and leonardo.ai etc.
This mediocre, bare bones AI image generator is Daz's attempt to keep the hamsters on the plantation spinning that content wheel.
I remain doubtful it will achieve this objective
as people already know they can get better still image from other AI art generators.
The Mcdonalds fast food chain on, the east coast, use to offer an indoor childrens "playground with slides etc just to keep the parents onsite( and potentially spending) while the kids played on the plastic playground.
Here is the reality: I support genesis 8-9 because there remains a commercial demand for their products for now
If you take away Genesis, Daz has Nothing to offer the 3D/CG market ..nothing.
they pad their discussion forums with vestigial necroware that
no one actually uses for any modern 3D/CG production .
I challenge anyone to show me an active online user community for
Bryce ,Carrarra or Hexagon outside of the Daz forums.
They have a Poser forum, which is technically a
,Direct competitor in this space, when None of the current Daz figure line or content will function in poser.
The latest G9 imports to Reallusion Iclone/CC4 but no detailed discussion of Iclone's features are tolerated.
Daz forum activity and engagement has been on the decline since the advent of Midjourney and leonardo.ai etc.
This mediocre, bare bones AI image generator is Daz's attempt to keep the hamsters on the plantation spinning that content wheel.
I remain doubtful it will achieve this objective
as people already know they can get better still image from other AI art generators.
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! REPORT
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Sun, Jun 09, 2024About the forums, let's be fair, they've been up for a long time and those older programs are still owned by DAZ.
Anabran
Karma: 2,603
Sun, Jun 09, 2024Vestgial necroware owned by Daz and in a developmental dead end.
Bryce is still 32 bit and can only address 4 gigs of your system ram.
because Daz Did not buy the rights to recompile it as 64 bit.
made even more redundant by the entire Eon Vue software suite now being freeware
just like the mimic lipsinc plugin in 32 bit Daz studio
or the Animate2 plugin that does not fully support any genesis figure past genesis 2 and is effectively useless with Genesis 9.
Bryce is still 32 bit and can only address 4 gigs of your system ram.
because Daz Did not buy the rights to recompile it as 64 bit.
made even more redundant by the entire Eon Vue software suite now being freeware
just like the mimic lipsinc plugin in 32 bit Daz studio
or the Animate2 plugin that does not fully support any genesis figure past genesis 2 and is effectively useless with Genesis 9.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Mon, Jun 10, 2024Is that a reason to just take down all forum threads related to those pieces of software? I know full well how old those programs are, I own copies of all of them!
I'm done, I honestly feel that you're just trolling me for reactions.
I'm done, I honestly feel that you're just trolling me for reactions.
SludgeQueen
Account Closed
Sat, Jun 29, 2024I been reading all of this and this person's post make my skin crawl. I would hope they are a troll, but I don't think that is the case. I didn't realize there were ai goons hanging out here tbh
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Mon, Jul 01, 2024In fact there is an active community, Bryce, Carrara and Hexagon (and all the others like Blender, Studio, Poser ...)
It's Active rendering, a german speaking community (3d-board.de)
It's Active rendering, a german speaking community (3d-board.de)
they can get better still images from other art generators - that is true. But (and i have a big but), i want to make comics and have the same character really easily and maybe even morph, dress and pose them in a daz scene but then just change an outfit or a background, or make the scene more AI, and then pair the picture with another panel that is total AI. not sure if i'm being clear. but i want to have a cast of characters ready to go and be able to use both daz studio and daz ai to make a comic.
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they can get better still images from other art generators - that is true. But (and i have a big but), i want to make comics and have the same character really easily and maybe even morph, dress and pose them in a daz scene but then just change an outfit or a background, or make the scene more AI, and then pair the picture with another panel that is total AI. not sure if i'm being clear. but i want to have a cast of characters ready to go and be able to use both daz studio and daz ai to make a comic.
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Is Daz jumping on the AI craze like he has in the past with NFTs?
Or will they really invest in this model by using their store base to self-supply?
If it's the second case, it's really not great... Except that they forgot a parameter in their equation... Daz is used a lot for "hot" content and that, the restricted AI of base will not allow it.
Whatever happens the hard part, software will always be used.
Or will they really invest in this model by using their store base to self-supply?
If it's the second case, it's really not great... Except that they forgot a parameter in their equation... Daz is used a lot for "hot" content and that, the restricted AI of base will not allow it.
Whatever happens the hard part, software will always be used.
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I understand that all creativity and inspiration is lost with AIs
For something quick and generic it may be worth it,
For something very specific and concrete it is not valid because you will never achieve exactly that pose or that look in that or another position,
For something quick and generic it may be worth it,
For something very specific and concrete it is not valid because you will never achieve exactly that pose or that look in that or another position,
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DAZ is toast, like Poser before.
CC4 and IC4 is the big thing now.
G9 is a pathetic attempt to have their own Meta human.
(Note to myself: LEARN BLENDER, damn it!!!)
CC4 and IC4 is the big thing now.
G9 is a pathetic attempt to have their own Meta human.
(Note to myself: LEARN BLENDER, damn it!!!)
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Anabran
Karma: 2,603
Sat, Apr 27, 2024Iclone and CC4 ( you will need both TBH ),
cost $900 at the start.
I have the older IC7&CC3 but I use Blender also
So learning blender is to your advantage
cost $900 at the start.
I have the older IC7&CC3 but I use Blender also
So learning blender is to your advantage
Matttew
Karma: 162
Mon, Apr 29, 2024I don't think Daz is toast, quite the opposite.
As a new user, I think it is the perfect tool to start in this 3D universe, not only because it is free but because you can create products with a very acceptable quality and with gateways to other programs such as Blender, Zbrush or Uneral.
Not everyone is going to be willing to spend more than $1K on 3D software for non-professional use.
As a new user, I think it is the perfect tool to start in this 3D universe, not only because it is free but because you can create products with a very acceptable quality and with gateways to other programs such as Blender, Zbrush or Uneral.
Not everyone is going to be willing to spend more than $1K on 3D software for non-professional use.
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,862
Sat, May 04, 2024DAZ had the advantage of having the biggest asset library, the best quality figures with geograft options and a free access to their main app.
Now Unreal Engine building up asset libraries pretty quick, Meta-Human are everywhere and UE and Blender are free as well.
with a poor release like G9, DAZ is clearly damaging their reputation, and escaping into generative AI is a dead end.
DAZ should have focused on supporting AI, which could improve dforce quality and calculation speed, help with shaders of skin and hair, make joint bendings more realistic, speed up render times or help with animations by adding AI generated micro-movements to animations like cascadeur does.
Instead, they wasted time and resources on generative AI.
Now Unreal Engine building up asset libraries pretty quick, Meta-Human are everywhere and UE and Blender are free as well.
with a poor release like G9, DAZ is clearly damaging their reputation, and escaping into generative AI is a dead end.
DAZ should have focused on supporting AI, which could improve dforce quality and calculation speed, help with shaders of skin and hair, make joint bendings more realistic, speed up render times or help with animations by adding AI generated micro-movements to animations like cascadeur does.
Instead, they wasted time and resources on generative AI.
Matttew
Karma: 162
Sat, May 11, 2024Yes, I agree, but I would also add something that many people have forgotten,,,
The Genesis 2 models and their mesh construction are better in many ways than the G8, for example, take a G2F, make it fat and flex the belly, torso and other joints, it does not deform or create folds, however this does happen With G8F, with G9 I think they were able to correct it.
An AI for Daz that could correct the weights and adjust them so that those folds are not created in certain areas with the sliders at the limit and with plus size models.
As I say, AI should serve to help the content creator, not replace them.
The Genesis 2 models and their mesh construction are better in many ways than the G8, for example, take a G2F, make it fat and flex the belly, torso and other joints, it does not deform or create folds, however this does happen With G8F, with G9 I think they were able to correct it.
An AI for Daz that could correct the weights and adjust them so that those folds are not created in certain areas with the sliders at the limit and with plus size models.
As I say, AI should serve to help the content creator, not replace them.
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,862
Sat, May 11, 2024TriAxe has been quite powerful, but resource intense.
You can see the time lack from posing the figure, until the joint shapes are finally snapping in place, which used to be super annoying.
And it doesn't help with the fact, that joint bendings for a core figure only look best on that core figure. As soon you have a custom character with a custom body shape you will need custom JCMs.
And yes indeed the G2F Mesh design has probable been the best of all Genesis iterations.
You can see the time lack from posing the figure, until the joint shapes are finally snapping in place, which used to be super annoying.
And it doesn't help with the fact, that joint bendings for a core figure only look best on that core figure. As soon you have a custom character with a custom body shape you will need custom JCMs.
And yes indeed the G2F Mesh design has probable been the best of all Genesis iterations.
Matttew
Karma: 162
Mon, May 13, 2024Ok, with all this, how does AI fit into the world of 3D for characters?
Could it be that AI is being implemented in 3D models not only for games but for personal use?
For example, instead of chatting with GPT4, it would be like talking directly to a virtual model on the computer screen with advanced AI that can give you all the services you can imagine, job advice, company, help in caring for the elderly, etc. ,,
Can you imagine having your favorite DAZ character talking or flirting?
It would be a 10!!
Could it be that AI is being implemented in 3D models not only for games but for personal use?
For example, instead of chatting with GPT4, it would be like talking directly to a virtual model on the computer screen with advanced AI that can give you all the services you can imagine, job advice, company, help in caring for the elderly, etc. ,,
Can you imagine having your favorite DAZ character talking or flirting?
It would be a 10!!
Anabran
Karma: 2,603
Mon, May 13, 2024Iam sure there are already plans in motion to use AI to provide such services particularly in the Adult entertainment arena.
However such startups will not depend on bloated
prefabs from Character systems like Daz or Reallusion (with their burdensome licensing terms).
They will develop their own bespoke Character eco system where the users can build their own AI companions much like a video game Character customization system
with characters that have full interactivity.
https://nypost.com/2024/04/15/business/tech-exec-predicts-ai-girlfriends-will-create-1b-business/
However such startups will not depend on bloated
prefabs from Character systems like Daz or Reallusion (with their burdensome licensing terms).
They will develop their own bespoke Character eco system where the users can build their own AI companions much like a video game Character customization system
with characters that have full interactivity.
https://nypost.com/2024/04/15/business/tech-exec-predicts-ai-girlfriends-will-create-1b-business/
MKDAWUSS
Karma: 50,205
Mon, May 13, 2024"Can you imagine having your favorite DAZ character talking or flirting?"
That'll probably be a Genesis 10 or Genesis 11 feature. lol
That'll probably be a Genesis 10 or Genesis 11 feature. lol
Matttew
Karma: 162
Tue, May 14, 2024Wow!! That would be an advance in all aspects,
The business volume for that market is incredible!
Like everything in this world, at first everything will be paid and expensive, then it will spread and end up being in common use.
The business volume for that market is incredible!
Like everything in this world, at first everything will be paid and expensive, then it will spread and end up being in common use.
I used to believe that AI "doesn't really understand anything" and I was reluctant to use chatGPT, because it was paywalled and required a signup. But I used a different LLM service, deepai.org, and I became convinced its got some pretty spooky ghost in the machine type stuff.
I tested it with these sorts of prompts:
...
"Please evaluate whether these two statements conflict; and answer either CONTRADICTION or NO CONTRADICTION."
1. I have two pennies in my left pocket and three pennies in my right pocket.
2. I have a total of six pennies in both pockets.
1. I have two pennies in my left pocket.
2. I have no coins in my right pocket.
1. I have two pennies in my left pocket.
2. I have no coins in my pockets.
...
With these prompts and lots more, the computer resolved the statements as either CONTRADICTION or NO CONTRADICTION, correctly, every single time.
And I became convinced generalized artificial intelligence is in fact possible. I don't think that "sentience" will ever exist in AI, because it cannot have any bodily sensation or naturally evolve a self-preservation instinct. It can be programmed to want to defend itself, but it will never actually WANT to defend itself naturally.
I tested it with these sorts of prompts:
...
"Please evaluate whether these two statements conflict; and answer either CONTRADICTION or NO CONTRADICTION."
1. I have two pennies in my left pocket and three pennies in my right pocket.
2. I have a total of six pennies in both pockets.
1. I have two pennies in my left pocket.
2. I have no coins in my right pocket.
1. I have two pennies in my left pocket.
2. I have no coins in my pockets.
...
With these prompts and lots more, the computer resolved the statements as either CONTRADICTION or NO CONTRADICTION, correctly, every single time.
And I became convinced generalized artificial intelligence is in fact possible. I don't think that "sentience" will ever exist in AI, because it cannot have any bodily sensation or naturally evolve a self-preservation instinct. It can be programmed to want to defend itself, but it will never actually WANT to defend itself naturally.
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Foxy 3D
Admin: 58,233
Mon, Apr 29, 2024The topic of this thread is "Daz AI Studio". Please keep the discussion on that topic.
I just logged into to rendo to get a nice freebie. Then i noticed that artist of the month is AI . Entire gallery is AI with loads of comments about how great it is. Not kidding the rule is you have to include the AI prompt.
Are we so far gone now??
I don't think I will bother logging in again.
Use something like this prompt from DA for a quick fake social media ego hit.
"Ultra realistic photo, full frontal, dynamic low angle, serious looking dancing princess in front of a tall waterfall city, long blonde waivy hair, beautiful face, bright blue eyes, intricate, highly detailed, smooth, sharp focus, art By tom bagshaw and beksinski., unreal 5 render, trending on artstation, award winning photograph, masterpiece"
or if you would rather spend days or weeks crafting something unique for a mostly nice bunch of folk. Welcome to Renderhub
Are we so far gone now??
I don't think I will bother logging in again.
Use something like this prompt from DA for a quick fake social media ego hit.
"Ultra realistic photo, full frontal, dynamic low angle, serious looking dancing princess in front of a tall waterfall city, long blonde waivy hair, beautiful face, bright blue eyes, intricate, highly detailed, smooth, sharp focus, art By tom bagshaw and beksinski., unreal 5 render, trending on artstation, award winning photograph, masterpiece"
or if you would rather spend days or weeks crafting something unique for a mostly nice bunch of folk. Welcome to Renderhub
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Hyp-St
Karma: 13,633
Fri, Jun 07, 2024My art used to be featured on there. Seeing Rendo announce AI an artist of the month feels like a slap to face.
bonj
Karma: 12,808
Fri, Jun 07, 2024Indeed it is a slap in the face of the community that made it what it once was. I did leave a comment over there but I expect it to be censored out of existence. Perhaps logging out forever is not the answer but if they won't stand by the artist / vendors then i won't support them either.
We could just spam the entire gallery to make a statement but if they want to commit Seppuku they missed the bit about honorable..
We could just spam the entire gallery to make a statement but if they want to commit Seppuku they missed the bit about honorable..
Hyp-St
Karma: 13,633
Fri, Jun 07, 2024On deviantart fellow artist shared a link to a video where the poster did a detail analysis and it's through there I learned this AI thingy is just another type ntf. Money laundry. I am considering to pull out my freebies from there. Maybe a bit drastic so will sleep this off. Morning is wiser.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,548
Sat, Jun 08, 2024Even taggers are now using AI, instead of drawn and rendered assets. They now do those requests for free, using pictures of the requesters as a sort of AI-driven "face-in-hole" A bunch of people who used to be called artists, have jumped the shark.
A long-time asset maker for what's left of the tagging community basically said "oh well I guess I'll just use AI it's easier".
Most Humans will follow the path of least resistance. Meanwhile I spent about 8 hours relearning Blender and Marvelous just to make a prop for a series I'm working on. The one good thing I can say about all of it is, the AI is weeding out the lazy "artists" from the few of us who enjoy putting in the work and have enough skill and intelligence to show for it.
A long-time asset maker for what's left of the tagging community basically said "oh well I guess I'll just use AI it's easier".
Most Humans will follow the path of least resistance. Meanwhile I spent about 8 hours relearning Blender and Marvelous just to make a prop for a series I'm working on. The one good thing I can say about all of it is, the AI is weeding out the lazy "artists" from the few of us who enjoy putting in the work and have enough skill and intelligence to show for it.
Anabran
Karma: 2,603
Fri, Jun 07, 2024First of all Renderosity is desperate for any site traffic/engagement at this point.
Second, we are in mid 2024 (yikes!!), and people still fail to see the difference between “Artand disposable Visual “content
The short attention span,Dopamine driven landscape of personal entertainment media derives it value from said
disposable Visual “content
and the same appears true for music as well.
AI generated imagery, AI Video voice narrations, click bait thumbnails, political satire etc are fueled by cheaply
mass produced generative AI.
NOT rarified Gallery “Artpieces.
And please..Stop kidding yourselves.. This is NOTHING like NFT’s because you are not required to believe in some ephemeral ,future value appreciation to reclaim your initial “investmentbr>
AI “art’ is disposable by virtue of its ubiquity
like any mass produced consumer product (Smart phones)
The true Value in AI “artis it’s zero effort creation
by individuals and it’s lossless disposability in a visual landscape competing for the rapacious eyes of the Dopamine driven consumer masses.
Second, we are in mid 2024 (yikes!!), and people still fail to see the difference between “Artand disposable Visual “content
The short attention span,Dopamine driven landscape of personal entertainment media derives it value from said
disposable Visual “content
and the same appears true for music as well.
AI generated imagery, AI Video voice narrations, click bait thumbnails, political satire etc are fueled by cheaply
mass produced generative AI.
NOT rarified Gallery “Artpieces.
And please..Stop kidding yourselves.. This is NOTHING like NFT’s because you are not required to believe in some ephemeral ,future value appreciation to reclaim your initial “investmentbr>
AI “art’ is disposable by virtue of its ubiquity
like any mass produced consumer product (Smart phones)
The true Value in AI “artis it’s zero effort creation
by individuals and it’s lossless disposability in a visual landscape competing for the rapacious eyes of the Dopamine driven consumer masses.
bonj
Karma: 12,808
Fri, Jun 07, 2024I thin you hit the nail on the head with the remark "AI “art’ is disposable by virtue of its ubiquity".
I may or may not be raked over the hot coals for this, but for those who don't know, I've been messing with AI image generation for about a year now. Tried different services, and settled on Artflow. I did this to prove a point while seeking to understand exactly what is behind my general hatred for AI generated images. This image did not come from DAZ AI, it came from my Artflow account. The character is adorable, but I have over 2000 saved generated images over the past year. Artflow itself has generated about 20k images in that period of time, on my account.
It's as disposable as TikTok videos and music. Just a novelty now. A few of my friends use it to generate modern "face-in-hole" images and I get a kick out of them, but in the end it's just a novelty. Business is trying to ride a wave that I don't think actually exists. AI has its place and that place isn't exactly in generative AI, although I have taken a few of the images I saved, and used them as inspiration and reference for some projects I have done over the time I have been using Artflow. Now, Man On The Street doesnt care how a picture is made, and really has no idea how a picture is made. This generative AI just keeps the masses glued to their phones. It's an enhanced Skinner Box. Zero cost of entry. Joe Public won't bother buying any kind of art now when Joe Public can get "good enough" for free. Well, at least it weeds out all the jerks who'd rip you off on paid commissions and such. I've been there before. And while it sucks that nobody commissions me anymore, I'd rather have that than assholes begging me to work with them while I compose low res examples for them. Even the low res works in progress are "good enough" for them. DAZ is banking on this, using our own finished rendered work and Human-made 3D assets sold at DAZ. That's why everyone here should be rightfully pissed. I know I sure am.
DAZ is literally banking on a social media algorithm. It's those algorithms that spread the nightmare in the first place.
Oh, and AI still can't render hands correctly most of the time. That is proof that it isn't intelligent at all. On the backend it's a sophisticated blender, and on the user end it's a slot machine.
And good luck calling me a hypocrite. I am proving a point here. To fight your foe, you have to *understand* your foe.
It's as disposable as TikTok videos and music. Just a novelty now. A few of my friends use it to generate modern "face-in-hole" images and I get a kick out of them, but in the end it's just a novelty. Business is trying to ride a wave that I don't think actually exists. AI has its place and that place isn't exactly in generative AI, although I have taken a few of the images I saved, and used them as inspiration and reference for some projects I have done over the time I have been using Artflow. Now, Man On The Street doesnt care how a picture is made, and really has no idea how a picture is made. This generative AI just keeps the masses glued to their phones. It's an enhanced Skinner Box. Zero cost of entry. Joe Public won't bother buying any kind of art now when Joe Public can get "good enough" for free. Well, at least it weeds out all the jerks who'd rip you off on paid commissions and such. I've been there before. And while it sucks that nobody commissions me anymore, I'd rather have that than assholes begging me to work with them while I compose low res examples for them. Even the low res works in progress are "good enough" for them. DAZ is banking on this, using our own finished rendered work and Human-made 3D assets sold at DAZ. That's why everyone here should be rightfully pissed. I know I sure am.
DAZ is literally banking on a social media algorithm. It's those algorithms that spread the nightmare in the first place.
Oh, and AI still can't render hands correctly most of the time. That is proof that it isn't intelligent at all. On the backend it's a sophisticated blender, and on the user end it's a slot machine.
And good luck calling me a hypocrite. I am proving a point here. To fight your foe, you have to *understand* your foe.
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I am a 3D Character animator I use Artflow but not for its mediocre Image generator, but for its talking heads and AI generated voice narrations.
I cheat to system by recording the voice audio preview with an audacity plugin without burning through my free credits
by actually producing the finished AI video.
I will never pay for generative AI because it is so disposable.
I cheat to system by recording the voice audio preview with an audacity plugin without burning through my free credits
by actually producing the finished AI video.
I will never pay for generative AI because it is so disposable.
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Not related to Daz Studio AI itself, but AI art vs 3D in general...
Now that it's so prolific in social media and art sites, I'm starting to notice that, in the bulk of actually drawn and rendered art I see, the comment section is now full of "this is just AI." Like it's not killing the craft because 3D and digital artists are doing some mass exodus, but because laypeople can't tell the difference and they dismiss the work with prejudice.
Now that it's so prolific in social media and art sites, I'm starting to notice that, in the bulk of actually drawn and rendered art I see, the comment section is now full of "this is just AI." Like it's not killing the craft because 3D and digital artists are doing some mass exodus, but because laypeople can't tell the difference and they dismiss the work with prejudice.
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darkart1
Karma: 1,614
Mon, Oct 07, 2024You're right. Many people are beginning to lump 3D art in with AI crap. It sucks, but it's a telling sign that people are getting sick of the AI crap.
Hyp-St
Karma: 13,633
Mon, Oct 07, 2024I remember around 10-15 years ago Poser and Daz's art was seen as something similar. Something for not talented enough, because it's click and ready.
For me the most exciting aspect of generative
is it ability to restyle your inout images of your 3D assets
I Started a graphic novel 28 days ago using the AI at mage.space as an experiment.
It is nearly complete at 65 pages.
I used the AI to restylesimple viewport renders of Daz figures & content in Blender.
the layout/lettering is done with comiclife3.
is it ability to restyle your inout images of your 3D assets
I Started a graphic novel 28 days ago using the AI at mage.space as an experiment.
It is nearly complete at 65 pages.
I used the AI to restylesimple viewport renders of Daz figures & content in Blender.
the layout/lettering is done with comiclife3.
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The biggest hurdle right now is exact consistency
with repeated renders, but once that is solved it will be a boon for animated filmmakers to restyle simple open Gl rendered animation frames into various higher quality styles.
with repeated renders, but once that is solved it will be a boon for animated filmmakers to restyle simple open Gl rendered animation frames into various higher quality styles.
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Whilst I can see the appeal of a quick AI image generation, it is not for me.
I wish to retain more control over the image, along with consistent repeatability in image series generation.
I wish to retain more control over the image, along with consistent repeatability in image series generation.
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I think Daz AI would be more interesting if they provided the ".duf" file of the scene, which would allow us to modify it.
I suspect that this will never be the case because they would provide the scenery files. But maybe one day they will provide the duf file of the pose.
I suspect that this will never be the case because they would provide the scenery files. But maybe one day they will provide the duf file of the pose.
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Generative AI is nothing more, than a tech demo, saying "look, what is possible."
As an artistic alternative, it is cheat and utter crap.
I absolutely hate it
As an artistic alternative, it is cheat and utter crap.
I absolutely hate it
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Anabran
Karma: 2,603
Thu, Oct 10, 2024You:
“I am sick and tiered of Fairies and Mushrooms,
tired of elfes and Lord Of The rings like stuff
Tired of American Style architecture and environments.
Tired of modern straight line architecture.
tiered of G9 stylized bimbo characters with six packs every guy wish to have..
Also you:
Generative AI is nothing more, than a tech demo, saying "look, what is possible."
As an artistic alternative, it is cheat and utter crap.
I absolutely hate itbr>
Time for someone to buy Zbrush, learn Blender
and make their own 3D content for still art or pick up a pencil/brush and learn to draw & paint, because that Daz content you hate is not going to change just because its behind a paywall and generative AI is (Thankfully) is here to stay.
“I am sick and tiered of Fairies and Mushrooms,
tired of elfes and Lord Of The rings like stuff
Tired of American Style architecture and environments.
Tired of modern straight line architecture.
tiered of G9 stylized bimbo characters with six packs every guy wish to have..
Also you:
Generative AI is nothing more, than a tech demo, saying "look, what is possible."
As an artistic alternative, it is cheat and utter crap.
I absolutely hate itbr>
Time for someone to buy Zbrush, learn Blender
and make their own 3D content for still art or pick up a pencil/brush and learn to draw & paint, because that Daz content you hate is not going to change just because its behind a paywall and generative AI is (Thankfully) is here to stay.
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,862
Thu, Oct 10, 2024Believe me, Understanding Blender would be such a blessing, but it is such an Enigma to me.
Anabran
I use Blender and Maya.
If you are only interested in “realisticstill renders of people (not cars, space ships and other hard surface machinery stuff), then Blender is Waaay overkill for you.
A Zbrush Sub from Maxon and substance painter sub from Adobe is a great combo for realistic Characters
prefabbed , canned figures from place like Daz, poser or Iclone will never get you realism.
Karma: 2,603
Thu, Oct 10, 2024I use Blender and Maya.
If you are only interested in “realisticstill renders of people (not cars, space ships and other hard surface machinery stuff), then Blender is Waaay overkill for you.
A Zbrush Sub from Maxon and substance painter sub from Adobe is a great combo for realistic Characters
prefabbed , canned figures from place like Daz, poser or Iclone will never get you realism.
AI tools are incredible tech, and I love AI!
However, if you train your models with other's work, then you're a shit artist, IF on the other hand you use your OWN content to train the models, then AI is remarkable…
I, for one, do not fear AI taking over the 3Dartist's role as non-AI art is still viable for individually trained AI, as well as stand-alone art, so I doubt it will be replaced as artists are compelled to create, and no tech will be able to replace that!
What I would love to see is individual model training software (Not apps, I fuckin' despise "apps" as I'm not a mobile user) for the end user, just imagine the possibilities with generating AI imagery using your own renders/characters with model training!
However, if you train your models with other's work, then you're a shit artist, IF on the other hand you use your OWN content to train the models, then AI is remarkable…
I, for one, do not fear AI taking over the 3Dartist's role as non-AI art is still viable for individually trained AI, as well as stand-alone art, so I doubt it will be replaced as artists are compelled to create, and no tech will be able to replace that!
What I would love to see is individual model training software (Not apps, I fuckin' despise "apps" as I'm not a mobile user) for the end user, just imagine the possibilities with generating AI imagery using your own renders/characters with model training!
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