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! REPORT
After the G9 Demo
3D Render by ipixelHopefully nobody will be upset about my opinion.
I realy love DAZ and i love Daz products. But at this moment I will not work with g9. I am still fine with g8/g8.1.
After spending thousands of dollars on g8 products, my wallet is empty for g9 products.
I realy love DAZ and i love Daz products. But at this moment I will not work with g9. I am still fine with g8/g8.1.
After spending thousands of dollars on g8 products, my wallet is empty for g9 products.
Corona, RECESSION, war... And a product with relative success as the G8 series
It was not the time for the G9.
It was not the time for the G9.
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! REPORT
As per usual (in my case that is) I've bought the character the moment she/he hit the store. .....but finding myself still working solely with the previous character....
It happened to me with Genesis one ...still worked with V4 for a long time, Genesis two I adapted somewhat fast, 3 and 8 where not far apart, so I don't really remember and now with nine I almost load 8.1 every time I have a little time to render...
So.. I'm waiting for 10 to show up, so I can start working with 9.. -lol-
(On a more serious note: The problem is always the content -or better said- the money I've spent on it. For 8 / 8.1 I have a lot of content, for 9 not so much. I do find myself buying content for 9 so now and then -which I do not even use. -sigh-)
It happened to me with Genesis one ...still worked with V4 for a long time, Genesis two I adapted somewhat fast, 3 and 8 where not far apart, so I don't really remember and now with nine I almost load 8.1 every time I have a little time to render...
So.. I'm waiting for 10 to show up, so I can start working with 9.. -lol-
(On a more serious note: The problem is always the content -or better said- the money I've spent on it. For 8 / 8.1 I have a lot of content, for 9 not so much. I do find myself buying content for 9 so now and then -which I do not even use. -sigh-)
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actually, i am also use anytime g8,81
i trying use g9, but i feel empty in my soul and empty emotional feeling if i use g9. i hope its understantable. And yes, my english its like joke
i trying use g9, but i feel empty in my soul and empty emotional feeling if i use g9. i hope its understantable. And yes, my english its like joke
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I think all of us are understanding what you mean. But you can be sure you are not alone with this feeling. Many of us are feeling nothing with g9. So, LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!! Thank you for your comment. (Do not apologize for your english - nobody is perfect).
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I still work with G3, G8 and G8.1 and that won't change in the near future. Not only that I'm not willing to spend so much money again now, but it would also further expand my library (which is already 250 GB large) for a too small benefit. And that's another point. Genesis 9 couldn't convince me yet. It may have its technical advantages compared to G8 and G8.1 - I don't want to deny this - but the visible outcome on the renders is not as high as I expected it would be. When it comes to realism, you can already achieve the same level of realism with G8/G8.1 , even with G3, if you have all the relevant additional stuff. And after all, realism in a render rather depends on things such as lighting, shaders, skin materials, tone mapping settings etc. in the first place, not as much on the figure itself. And the expressions also already look pretty natural with G8.1. When I look at all the G9 renders out there I can see NOTHING that cannot already be achieved with the previous figure generations. G9 isn't the big technical revolution in 3D rendering that I did expect or wished for. So I will skip G9 and wait for a possible G10.
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! REPORT
I still need to add that I also don't like the concept of a unified figure as it's the case with G9 and it can lead to some disadvantages. I rather prefer male and female base figures to be separated. And I assume that the reason that G9 is a gender-unified figure is more a political reason than a technical one, since it grants the possibility to make gender-fluid characters and therefore it serves the nowadays' political correctness and kneels down in front of the gender BS like a miserable wretch.
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! REPORT
Ainuk3DRender
Karma: 817
Wed, Apr 26, 2023Your assumption that the unified figure is to appease political factions is false. From a strictly technical perspective, having one set of UV maps that need no conversion to translate male-to-female is a saver for developers and creators alike. Many previous products required a male and female version to match up to the disparate maps, requiring more work in development and support for their creators, even if the difference in the products was minimal.
Separately, the single figure more closely mimics what is present in nature: some women have more masculine features and vice-versa. Being able to swipe a single slider to get your starting point is *much* easier than going through all the relative sliders piecemeal. Morph sliders is actually probably the best analogy out there as to the differences between the sexes. *Most* of the features that people are upset about identifying gender with are the same (or remarkably similar) structures that are only differentiated by shape. The penis and clitoris are really only separated by size; they both have a nerve-packed glans, erectile tissue, and a foreskin (clitoral hood). Testes and ovaries are nearly identical in function, each producing the living starter material for conception; one is inside, the other outside. Males also have mammary glands. Pretty much the sole outlier is the uterus.
The biological difference are much more minor than they would appear and having a single figure with multiple diverse morph sliders is *literally* what we are as humans. Every single gene expression you have is a slider.
And this political movement that you denigrate is about getting people the help and understanding they need to live happy and productive lives. With kids it's literally to keep them from killing themselves while they figure themselves out.
If you are unaffected by gender dismorphia, you have nothing at all to worry about.
Separately, the single figure more closely mimics what is present in nature: some women have more masculine features and vice-versa. Being able to swipe a single slider to get your starting point is *much* easier than going through all the relative sliders piecemeal. Morph sliders is actually probably the best analogy out there as to the differences between the sexes. *Most* of the features that people are upset about identifying gender with are the same (or remarkably similar) structures that are only differentiated by shape. The penis and clitoris are really only separated by size; they both have a nerve-packed glans, erectile tissue, and a foreskin (clitoral hood). Testes and ovaries are nearly identical in function, each producing the living starter material for conception; one is inside, the other outside. Males also have mammary glands. Pretty much the sole outlier is the uterus.
The biological difference are much more minor than they would appear and having a single figure with multiple diverse morph sliders is *literally* what we are as humans. Every single gene expression you have is a slider.
And this political movement that you denigrate is about getting people the help and understanding they need to live happy and productive lives. With kids it's literally to keep them from killing themselves while they figure themselves out.
If you are unaffected by gender dismorphia, you have nothing at all to worry about.
Ghatanothoa
Karma: 7,385
Thu, Apr 27, 2023Not gender dysphoria is killing our kids or is making them to kill themselves. Our mentally sick society is killing our kids! The today's so-called "gender dysphoria" is a fabricated modern phenomenon and has completely other reasons than you think.
Ainuk3DRender
Karma: 817
Thu, Apr 27, 2023Science progresses and we get better language to describe what has always been. Gender is a spectrum, and the science bears that out, in humans and the rest of the animal kingdom. Do a little light reading on hermaphroditism throughout history (specifically humans) and understand just how many infants had their gender chosen for them shortly after birth, surgically. What we understand now about sex, gender, and sexual preference is the result of many different chromosomal and gene expressions, and nothing is black and white. There is more to understand now than when you were in school. All the social stuff does is give people a framework to understand themselves; or not, in your case.
Peace
Peace
Ghatanothoa
Karma: 7,385
Fri, Apr 28, 2023I'm a man of reason and a man of science. And I'm very far away from anything that could be called religion, ideology and dogmatism. But precisely because I am, I need to clearly state that there are 2 (biological) genders by nature. No more, no less. And everything else just happens in the head, mostly in shape of a mental disorder. Of course, I know that there are also (biological, physical) hermaphrodites among humans, among animals. But that's nothing but a rare caprice of nature and hasn't anything to do with what we call genderism, gender dysphoria or gender-fluid nowadays. Our modern society normalizes things that aren't normal by reality and not only that, our society even forces and supports things that are not normal whereas things that are ACTUALLY normal are more and more declared abnormal. This is nothing but dogmatism, ideology, denying reality. And the greatest victims are our children. We are washing the brains of our children, distract them from nature and we are intoxicating their heads with crazy ideologies that are as far from science as they could ever be. This is not science. This is ideology, it's a modern religion and we set our children an example with all this BS, making them more and more unable to live their normal lives or to become normal, sane and healthy people.
Hey - wow! Thanks for taking your time to let us know about your G9 Demo. I agree in all your points. By the way my library is about 2TB large LOL... And that is interesting: You prefer male and female seperated - me too... Thank you for your comment!
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! REPORT
let me quick add one thing. I have seen here on renderhub there is Vendor named: HumanXYStudio. He offers high quality textures for the g8f and g8.1f. I have not tried it yet, but i think this could be a game changer and a real step stone in render quality. LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!!
example:
https://www.renderhub.com/humanxystudio/kiara-uhd-materials-pro-8-and-8-1
example:
https://www.renderhub.com/humanxystudio/kiara-uhd-materials-pro-8-and-8-1
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! REPORT
Ainuk3DRender
Karma: 817
Wed, Apr 26, 2023I've bought two skin sets from HumanXYStudio (for G9, so off-topic? 
). They are superb, and an excellent way to set your work apart. Even if pricey.
). They are superb, and an excellent way to set your work apart. Even if pricey.Boycott?
Sorry, no way. G9 does have its advantages. Im noticing much better bends in through the groin, especially when weight is added to a character.
I feel your pain of dropping lots of cash on G8.x, and it was the same when they went from 3 to 8. Heres the thing, though: all your 8 stuff still works with 9 (except expressions, AFAIK). Youve lost nothing.
If youre not satisfied with AutoFit, theres a pretty great converter (I think from SickleYield) for clothes; hair is fine (although Ive run in to a couple isolated hairs that are way wrong). Theres an awesome pose converter thatll take 8 and 3 forward to 9 with few issues (some sets arent identifying properly to the converter, but that seems like a vendor problem thatll get fixed). Theres a converter/UV for skins. Sure, its all extra money, but it pulls all your current content forward for minimal expense.
Im also seeing many outfits and hairs supporting 3, 8, and 9; vendors who want to sell will follow suit.
At this point Im not buying any more 8.x characters, as the load times for me are in the 10-20 minute range, where G9 is about 50 seconds. Some older scenes with several G8.x characters wont load at all. I have 4 full TB SSD drives of overwhelmingly G8 content, so I have an investment in not starting over. Fortunately, I dont have to.
Sorry, no way. G9 does have its advantages. Im noticing much better bends in through the groin, especially when weight is added to a character.
I feel your pain of dropping lots of cash on G8.x, and it was the same when they went from 3 to 8. Heres the thing, though: all your 8 stuff still works with 9 (except expressions, AFAIK). Youve lost nothing.
If youre not satisfied with AutoFit, theres a pretty great converter (I think from SickleYield) for clothes; hair is fine (although Ive run in to a couple isolated hairs that are way wrong). Theres an awesome pose converter thatll take 8 and 3 forward to 9 with few issues (some sets arent identifying properly to the converter, but that seems like a vendor problem thatll get fixed). Theres a converter/UV for skins. Sure, its all extra money, but it pulls all your current content forward for minimal expense.
Im also seeing many outfits and hairs supporting 3, 8, and 9; vendors who want to sell will follow suit.
At this point Im not buying any more 8.x characters, as the load times for me are in the 10-20 minute range, where G9 is about 50 seconds. Some older scenes with several G8.x characters wont load at all. I have 4 full TB SSD drives of overwhelmingly G8 content, so I have an investment in not starting over. Fortunately, I dont have to.
REPLY
! REPORT
Ghatanothoa
Karma: 7,385
Thu, Apr 27, 2023My G8 scenes' load times are between 30 and 60 seconds (depending on the complexity of the scene). Ok, I need to confess that my library is only 260 GB large and only contains stuff for G3, G8 and G8.1 (almost only female content). But your 4 TB library content for G8 alone is pretty crazy and therefore load times of 10-20 minutes are no surprise. So this has nothing to do with G8 or G9. The same will happen with G9 as soon as you have purchased enough G9 content.
Ainuk3DRender
Karma: 817
Thu, Apr 27, 2023Sorry for the double-post, BTW.
My comment disappeared as soon as I submitted it, twice. Was going to post again, but glad that I don't have to now.
My comment disappeared as soon as I submitted it, twice. Was going to post again, but glad that I don't have to now.
ViperCGI
Karma: 102
Wed, Jun 07, 2023It's funny you mention bends, cause they are awful on both gen 8 and 9. The reason I'm still on 8.1 is because of the excellent Ultimate Natural Bend Morphs available for G8. It fixes the majority of issues like thighs, elbows, shoulders, etc. I had hoped that G9 would come with proper bends from the box, but they didn't do any improvements. So until a similar product exists for G9, it's a non starter.
Originally, I wasn't going to touch Genesis 9 (got too much stuff for G8F and G8M already) but in the end, I broke down and bought Victoria 9 and Michael 9 and a bunch of other content. However, I actually haven't had a chance to play with any of it yet, so I can't say if I like it or not. I will say that I'm not happy about Genesis 9 being a single figure like the original Genesis -- Genesis 9 has the same kinda generic look that the original Genesis had, and I think DAZ should have gone with a male and female figure again. I will also add that this will probably be my last generation with DAZ. I'm gearing up to learn Blender and hope to wean myself off of DAZ Studio over this next year or so.
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! REPORT
I don't render human characters often, but I am more invested in Gen 8 and below. Unless some future release really blows my mind (such as realistic monkey or other animal morphs as I render more nature scenes), Gen 9 will likely stay out of my library for the foreseeable future. However, there are a lot of Daz users who seem to be enjoying Gen 9, so I won't begrudge them for doing so. If it's useful to others for their needs, then I can't complain. I don't need it because the previous generations are still useful to me, so I don't need to invest in it. Plus, buying yet another set of character and asset converters is just too darned costly these days...
In summary, no to a boycott as far as I'm concerned as others do find value in it. I just happen to not need it.
In summary, no to a boycott as far as I'm concerned as others do find value in it. I just happen to not need it.
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! REPORT
Undercity4
Karma: 1,500
Sat, Jun 03, 2023He says to boycott because this whole practice itself is BS. Some people enjoy paying for micro-transactions in video games and look how that turned out, they ruined gaming because of it. Daz constantly putting out these genesis figures isn't benefitting anyone, this is just people doing the whole "trendy" thing. and it's unneccessary. Daz needs to focus on improving their software, that's the whole reason so many people are using Blender or something else instead of DAZ because Daz is garbage. They don't even have their own morph tools. And that's a shame.
Like most, I have bought the basics for Genesis 9. Then what? Unless you can create clothing for Genesis characters yourself the G9M is in a basic world of his own. Yes, there's lots of clothing for G9F, but what about the fellas? I wish I knew how it was done and what software is needed, I feel like the men are left behind. If anyone does know where to start doing this, then please let me know.
Therefore, I have to admit that I too have remained with Genesis 8 and will wait for a clothes & character converter from Genesis 8 to 9.
Therefore, I have to admit that I too have remained with Genesis 8 and will wait for a clothes & character converter from Genesis 8 to 9.
REPLY
! REPORT
ipixel
Karma: 1,721
Sat, May 20, 2023i just would like to let you know, there is a character & material converter bundle new in the daz store. Maybe is this what you are looking for?
link:
https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-character-and-material-conversion-genesis-8-to-genesis-9-bundle
link:
https://www.daz3d.com/rssy-character-and-material-conversion-genesis-8-to-genesis-9-bundle
Undercity4
Karma: 1,500
Sat, Jun 03, 2023Reasons the males get shafted a lot is due to fewer people using men figures, I mean notice how often generic they look? People put more effort into their female characters and less effort in their male characters when they have them. I rarely come across a male figure that looks truly unique.
Thank you for your opinion! I would like to let you know, that there is a good video about how to convert g8 to g9. Its easy done. Keep it going - and have render fun!
link:
link:
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! REPORT
Well after investing a lot of money into 8, they decided to release 8.1. The existence of 8.1 is for me a money grab because it's the only version that got a .1 update. There wasn't a Genesis 2.1, Genesis 3.1 and so on. But I invested money into 8.1 even tho after some time it showed it had issues. So, my surprise was when, after a year or more after the release of 8.1, they released Genesis 9. The problem how I see it, other than the fact that Genesis 8.1 existence is unjustified, is that the marketplace for Daz3d is flooded with Genesis 9 products and creators are making less and less content for Genesis 3, 8 and 8.1. Somehow they are trying to force you to switch to Genesis 9.
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! REPORT
ipixel
Karma: 1,721
Tue, May 16, 2023Yes you are right! They tried to switch... But if only a few people are buying the g9 items it will be not enough. So its maybe only a question of time that they will start creating again items for the g8 family. Thank you for your comment.
LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!!
LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!!
Ghatanothoa
Karma: 7,385
Sat, May 20, 2023G8.1 was an improvement when it comes to posing an expressions. I also use G8.1 beside G3 and G8, but I will stay away from G9.
The Generation 4 also got a .1 an even a .2 update. There was Victoria 4.1 and 4.2. I guess that the reason for this was the long lifespan of Generation 4. It was first released in 2006 and it ended not before 2011 when Genesis and Victoria 5 were released. So Generation 4 had a lifespan of 5 years. which is pretty long compared to G1, G2 and G3, which all had a lifespan of only 2 years. G8 also had a 5-year-lifespan until G9 came out. So it was to be expected that there would likely be at least a .1 update.
The Generation 4 also got a .1 an even a .2 update. There was Victoria 4.1 and 4.2. I guess that the reason for this was the long lifespan of Generation 4. It was first released in 2006 and it ended not before 2011 when Genesis and Victoria 5 were released. So Generation 4 had a lifespan of 5 years. which is pretty long compared to G1, G2 and G3, which all had a lifespan of only 2 years. G8 also had a 5-year-lifespan until G9 came out. So it was to be expected that there would likely be at least a .1 update.
MadKingGames
Karma: 600
Sat, May 20, 2023You are right! I forgot about Victoria. Relating to Genesis 8.1, yes it is an improvement when it comes to realism but the downside is the translucency issue for most of the models and the overall resource demand. I also think that between 8.1 and 9 wasn't too much of a time gap.
ipixel
Karma: 1,721
Sat, May 20, 2023Thanks for the good explanation. We will see what happens next. Thank you for your comment.
LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!!
LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!!
Undercity4
Karma: 1,500
Sat, Jun 03, 2023They are stupid then because Renderosity isn't doing that nonsense.
If you go there, loads of vendors still make a lot of Gen 8 content, I actually like Renderosity better than Daz's main store, most of the people there are kind of old, I mean really old but they aren't the type to follow trends either. They stick with what they love and enjoy creating so if you go there you'll see a lot of people making content for Genesis 8. You will come across some vendors that will create content for both Gen 8 and 9, but in Daz's case they are doing more and more Gen 9 content because they want you to buy it, then after awhile they will switch to another one. Me personally I'm not rebuying all the same base morphs over again for these genesis figures. They need to fix their dated sorry excuse of a program instead of wasting time messing around with all these Genesis figures.
If you go there, loads of vendors still make a lot of Gen 8 content, I actually like Renderosity better than Daz's main store, most of the people there are kind of old, I mean really old but they aren't the type to follow trends either. They stick with what they love and enjoy creating so if you go there you'll see a lot of people making content for Genesis 8. You will come across some vendors that will create content for both Gen 8 and 9, but in Daz's case they are doing more and more Gen 9 content because they want you to buy it, then after awhile they will switch to another one. Me personally I'm not rebuying all the same base morphs over again for these genesis figures. They need to fix their dated sorry excuse of a program instead of wasting time messing around with all these Genesis figures.
MadKingGames
Karma: 600
Mon, Jun 05, 2023I buy things from Renderosity as well but I may come as a bad person for saying this, the quality of the products from Renderosity compared with the Daz marketplace, is visibly different. Even tho quality may be the subject of one's preference, I have to search for a good-looking product that doesn't have issues. One thing that I have to give to Renderosity is that people may find more niche products than on the Daz marketplace. For example, cars if you want o more realistic set of products, but again you have to search to find something of quality.
ipixel
Karma: 1,721
Mon, Jun 05, 2023That is interesting. I've often had the impression - but it was more like a feeling. Now that you're pointing it out, I realize the quality is different than the DAZ shop products. Thanks for your comment.
I'm mainly using G8, because of content volume. In time I'll build up content for G9 and use her too. Every now and then I still load up G3 as well. Hell to be honest just for kicks sometimes I load up V4 and play around with her.
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! REPORT
ipixel
Karma: 1,721
Sat, May 27, 2023Hopefully your money is well spent on the G9 things and thank you for telling us your little secret. Thank you for your comment.
LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!!
LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!!
A good discussion with lots of talent speaking useful words. I am a little slow to G9 myself, as I've been working with G8 and older G3 characters and assets since I started - which is likely a lot more recently than most - and my library is rather extensive. I think G9 has a lot of potential, but I will wait for more from Sickleyield , Riversoft and others to dive more deeply into G9. The latter has a pretty good pose converter.
Recent changes to geocells have caused all sorts of issues with G8 requiring a lot of labor to correct in scene. If these aren't sorted, G9 might be a little more alluring.
Yes - G9 slows things down and uses a lot of memory to the point where some system upgrades might be necessary....
Recent changes to geocells have caused all sorts of issues with G8 requiring a lot of labor to correct in scene. If these aren't sorted, G9 might be a little more alluring.
Yes - G9 slows things down and uses a lot of memory to the point where some system upgrades might be necessary....
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! REPORT
ipixel
Karma: 1,721
Sun, May 28, 2023Thank you for joining our little discussion and adding a new point. Thank you for your comment.
LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!!
LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!!
As a Daz PA I need to adapt my products to both G8 and G9. But I don't understand the androginous nature of the latest character base. G9 is 10 cm shorter than G8, it's gross and definitely not elegant. But I think it answers to a present agenda.
I hope Genesis 10 goes back to something more slender and fitted to female's clothes.
I hope Genesis 10 goes back to something more slender and fitted to female's clothes.
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! REPORT
ipixel
Karma: 1,721
Fri, Jun 02, 2023Hopefully the G10 is not 20cm shorter. And hopefully the G9 era won't last that long. Thank you for your opinion.
LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!!
Pssssst (whispering): Can anyone explain to me what a DAZ PA is? I have really no idea. Thank you...
LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!!
Pssssst (whispering): Can anyone explain to me what a DAZ PA is? I have really no idea. Thank you...
Fantasyart-3D
Karma: 1,044
Fri, Jun 02, 2023PA means Published Artist. I create products for Daz Studio:
https://www.daz3d.com/fantasyart3d
Cheers!
https://www.daz3d.com/fantasyart3d
Cheers!
I spent a ton on G8, I was in process of upgrading to G8.1 and then got blind sided by G9. I got on with G9 and then was turned off by the androgeny. Really dislike the chunky man-boobs and miss the ability to blend between two characters without the resultant becoming hideously flawed. So, I have a couple hundred $$$ that I paid for G9 crap that don't use and that I'll never use. If G10 is androgenous, I won't use that crap either. Hopefully the competition will learn from DAZ's mistake and will fork an 8.1-like product with 9.0-like benefits without all the negatives. As-is, I am rather done with DAZ as a source for models.
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ipixel
Karma: 1,721
Sun, Jun 11, 2023Yahhh, its a pity to spend a lot of money in useless things. But dont give up! LONG LIVE G8 & G8.1!!!!!! Thank you for your opinion and comment.
This is how I feel when I see art with face apps used or any AI. These people ruin 3d art and are not as good as they think they are. It's actually quite sad to see their abilities wasted and shit on by their insecurities.
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After the G9 Demo
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