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! REPORT
Porsche 917 K Gulf
3D Render by francobelPorsche 917 K Gulf and Gulf Girl - Postwork redone on an older render
Hi Francobel,
Do you have any Patreon or youtube or blogposts any place where one can learn from your process?
Your mix of lighting, color grading, posing, composition, texturing, post-work are really good and would be great to learn from it.
Do you have any Patreon or youtube or blogposts any place where one can learn from your process?
Your mix of lighting, color grading, posing, composition, texturing, post-work are really good and would be great to learn from it.
REPLY
! REPORT
francobel
Karma: 30,593
Mon, Oct 07, 2024Hi Webhav,
I don't but if you have any questions, I'm happy to try to answer them
I don't but if you have any questions, I'm happy to try to answer them
webhav
Karma: 170
Tue, Oct 08, 2024Thank you..
I think your art work is really amazing, and the more I look at the various works, the more I get intrigued about your process.
Few of my questions are:
1. Lighting: I love the lighting of your scenes. A general brightness is maintained yet you renders shadows too really well. in many of your works.
In particular how do you maintain brightness without overwhelming the scene? Do you render subject layers and background layers separately? Do you have any check layers for brightness or you use your own instincts for an appropriate level.
2. Color palette: I feel you do give a lot of thought about the colors of your scene. What's your process here.
3. Texture: In certain images, the texture on your subject clothing can be really good and detailed. Do you use a separate brush for that? Or use the normal maps in the clothing? I feel you sometimes brush the folds etc. on the clothings also to make them look more natural, though am not sure.
4. Timing: How much time do you generally spend in planning, doing the set-up in Daz and then finally the photoshop phase?
Sorry if the questions are too detailed. Please feel free to ignore any part of the question where the answer may be too long or bothersome.
And thanks a lot!
I think your art work is really amazing, and the more I look at the various works, the more I get intrigued about your process.
Few of my questions are:
1. Lighting: I love the lighting of your scenes. A general brightness is maintained yet you renders shadows too really well. in many of your works.
In particular how do you maintain brightness without overwhelming the scene? Do you render subject layers and background layers separately? Do you have any check layers for brightness or you use your own instincts for an appropriate level.
2. Color palette: I feel you do give a lot of thought about the colors of your scene. What's your process here.
3. Texture: In certain images, the texture on your subject clothing can be really good and detailed. Do you use a separate brush for that? Or use the normal maps in the clothing? I feel you sometimes brush the folds etc. on the clothings also to make them look more natural, though am not sure.
4. Timing: How much time do you generally spend in planning, doing the set-up in Daz and then finally the photoshop phase?
Sorry if the questions are too detailed. Please feel free to ignore any part of the question where the answer may be too long or bothersome.
And thanks a lot!
francobel
Karma: 30,593
Wed, Oct 09, 2024I'll try to respond a bit later this week or weekend. Thanks for the compliments and all good questions.
webhav
Karma: 170
Mon, Oct 14, 2024Hey @francobel.
Thought would gently remind you about this. Though I don't mean to spam. I fully realize that you're busy creating art, and will stop follow-ups after this message in order to not end up spamming.
Thanks.
Thought would gently remind you about this. Though I don't mean to spam. I fully realize that you're busy creating art, and will stop follow-ups after this message in order to not end up spamming.
Thanks.
francobel
Karma: 30,593
Mon, Oct 14, 20241. Lighting: I love the lighting of your scenes. A general brightness is maintained yet you renders shadows too really well. in many of your works.
In particular how do you maintain brightness without overwhelming the scene? Do you render subject layers and background layers separately? Do you have any check layers for brightness or you use your own instincts for an appropriate level.
I guess background in studio photography helps me here. In daz, I apply the same lighting concepts as I would for photos with one advantage, you can add lights that are invisible to the camera;) I use ghost lights a lot.
My basic approach is to get the lighting contrasting enough but not too much, add additive ghost lights where I see need for additional contrast or specular effect.
I tend to keep the overall image a bit low in contrast to use as is before post work.
No I do not render layers, all in one renders. The post work handles the light correction. I wish I could tell you a formula I use but it's pretty much as I see it in daz at production time and photoshop at the time of edits.
I can tell you that I use curves and the image raw filters a lot to correct lights by layers and objects. So starting with one layer I usually end up with 12 or 40 PS layers, sometimes more when I feel particular about what I want to achieve.
I also use burn and dodge where needed, and at last resort, paint areas that I think need corrections.
I don't really plan my work, so it's mainly habits and how I feel at the moment and the ambient light I'm working in. The latter matters as I often go back to what I did during the day later at night.
In general, I'm not looking for perfection, just enough to fool the eyes.
I'll get back to you on the other questions shortly
In particular how do you maintain brightness without overwhelming the scene? Do you render subject layers and background layers separately? Do you have any check layers for brightness or you use your own instincts for an appropriate level.
I guess background in studio photography helps me here. In daz, I apply the same lighting concepts as I would for photos with one advantage, you can add lights that are invisible to the camera;) I use ghost lights a lot.
My basic approach is to get the lighting contrasting enough but not too much, add additive ghost lights where I see need for additional contrast or specular effect.
I tend to keep the overall image a bit low in contrast to use as is before post work.
No I do not render layers, all in one renders. The post work handles the light correction. I wish I could tell you a formula I use but it's pretty much as I see it in daz at production time and photoshop at the time of edits.
I can tell you that I use curves and the image raw filters a lot to correct lights by layers and objects. So starting with one layer I usually end up with 12 or 40 PS layers, sometimes more when I feel particular about what I want to achieve.
I also use burn and dodge where needed, and at last resort, paint areas that I think need corrections.
I don't really plan my work, so it's mainly habits and how I feel at the moment and the ambient light I'm working in. The latter matters as I often go back to what I did during the day later at night.
In general, I'm not looking for perfection, just enough to fool the eyes.
I'll get back to you on the other questions shortly
webhav
Karma: 170
Tue, Oct 15, 2024Thank you so much.
Experience in studio photography! Awesome. That explains a lot about the really cool lighting work in your images. I learned a lot from your detailed and thoughtful response:
- Ghost lights: Ah, haven't been using them that much. Will start learning more about them and using them.
- Low contrast approach: That's very interesting. Makes sense. Will make photoshop work easier later. Also explains excellent lighting in even your dark scenes!
- 12-40 ps layers: Sounds about right. Your detailed artwork has to have at least that much complexity. this is a good benchmark for a learner.
- Burn, dodge and paintovers: Makes sense. Though, it's highly interesting that you begin with the low contrast high illumination image already, so burning will be much more effective.
- Ambient light check: wow! you check your image in different ambient lights to see if it works! That's fascinating, I had only recently learned about this that colors look different in different ambient lights and my response was confusion as to what to trust. However, you provide a very workable and solid quality check to counter this.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on this part. It's really cool!
Experience in studio photography! Awesome. That explains a lot about the really cool lighting work in your images. I learned a lot from your detailed and thoughtful response:
- Ghost lights: Ah, haven't been using them that much. Will start learning more about them and using them.
- Low contrast approach: That's very interesting. Makes sense. Will make photoshop work easier later. Also explains excellent lighting in even your dark scenes!
- 12-40 ps layers: Sounds about right. Your detailed artwork has to have at least that much complexity. this is a good benchmark for a learner.
- Burn, dodge and paintovers: Makes sense. Though, it's highly interesting that you begin with the low contrast high illumination image already, so burning will be much more effective.
- Ambient light check: wow! you check your image in different ambient lights to see if it works! That's fascinating, I had only recently learned about this that colors look different in different ambient lights and my response was confusion as to what to trust. However, you provide a very workable and solid quality check to counter this.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on this part. It's really cool!
francobel
Karma: 30,593
Tue, Oct 15, 2024added original render to this one to give you an idea of before and after
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/53268/skater
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/53268/skater
francobel
Karma: 30,593
Tue, Oct 22, 20242. Color palette: I feel you do give a lot of thought about the colors of your scene. What's your process here.
I don't really give it all that much thought but I try to follow 2 rules:
a) the 60-30-10 one 60% dominant, 30% secondary, and 10% accent.
b) loosely follow the color theory
In general, the color theme I use depends as much on the theme of the image as it does to my moods
but yes, at the end it mostly uses the 2 concepts above.
I don't really give it all that much thought but I try to follow 2 rules:
a) the 60-30-10 one 60% dominant, 30% secondary, and 10% accent.
b) loosely follow the color theory
In general, the color theme I use depends as much on the theme of the image as it does to my moods
but yes, at the end it mostly uses the 2 concepts above.francobel
Karma: 30,593
Tue, Oct 22, 20243. Texture: In certain images, the texture on your subject clothing can be really good and detailed. Do you use a separate brush for that? Or use the normal maps in the clothing? I feel you sometimes brush the folds etc. on the clothings also to make them look more natural, though am not sure.
Light and textures are 2 of the key elements to get a good image vs an ok one, so yes I do spend some time on making sure I get enough details.
I spend time on adjusting skins and clothes when needed. That may involve different processes depending on what I have to work with.
Most can be achieved post production but when working on low rez original textures, I may upscale and correct them to load in DAZ.
As post process, different sharpening methods using masks for high pass filter, sharpening brush, cloning brush, Camera Raw filter, invert/overlay/blur, adjust shadows/highlights etc.
And yes I generally use the liquify filter to correct folds and other inconsistency artifacts from the original render
Light and textures are 2 of the key elements to get a good image vs an ok one, so yes I do spend some time on making sure I get enough details.
I spend time on adjusting skins and clothes when needed. That may involve different processes depending on what I have to work with.
Most can be achieved post production but when working on low rez original textures, I may upscale and correct them to load in DAZ.
As post process, different sharpening methods using masks for high pass filter, sharpening brush, cloning brush, Camera Raw filter, invert/overlay/blur, adjust shadows/highlights etc.
And yes I generally use the liquify filter to correct folds and other inconsistency artifacts from the original render
francobel
Karma: 30,593
Tue, Oct 22, 20244. Timing: How much time do you generally spend in planning, doing the set-up in Daz and then finally the photoshop phase?
I try to limit my time per image to less than 1 hr total but that varies largely on subject at hand. The overall appearance of complexity or simplicity of an image doesn't always reflect time spend.
A busy scene with lots of objects can be simpler than a portrait on plain background
I use face transfer for many characters and getting the right corrections in details and skins can take a good portion of the time, trying different hair, poses, lights, etc can take more time than anticipated as well. Adding the scene, composing, camera angles etc is usually fast.
As to pre and post work, I would say it's about 50/50 or 35/65 between Daz and PS respectively.
I kindda do this as would be doodling or sketching, so it's more something that evolves as I go than something I plan. This is also why it's a bit difficult to explain the process in a step by step manner as most is rather instinctive than planned. I rarely end up with what I thought to do at the start but somehow it follows a thread in my head. It's the results of lots of trials and errors over the years building muscles memory and lots of small trials and errors as you go through building the image. The whole process is kinda similar to a mix of selection and randomness.
I try to limit my time per image to less than 1 hr total but that varies largely on subject at hand. The overall appearance of complexity or simplicity of an image doesn't always reflect time spend.
A busy scene with lots of objects can be simpler than a portrait on plain background
I use face transfer for many characters and getting the right corrections in details and skins can take a good portion of the time, trying different hair, poses, lights, etc can take more time than anticipated as well. Adding the scene, composing, camera angles etc is usually fast.
As to pre and post work, I would say it's about 50/50 or 35/65 between Daz and PS respectively.
I kindda do this as would be doodling or sketching, so it's more something that evolves as I go than something I plan. This is also why it's a bit difficult to explain the process in a step by step manner as most is rather instinctive than planned. I rarely end up with what I thought to do at the start but somehow it follows a thread in my head
. It's the results of lots of trials and errors over the years building muscles memory and lots of small trials and errors as you go through building the image. The whole process is kinda similar to a mix of selection and randomness.Thank you so much for your detailed answer!
The most amazing part of the answer for me was the time you take for this: 1 hr! Starting from scratch to post-processing in 1 hour? Awesome. This is probably really like muscle memory for you by now.
" A busy scene with lots of objects can be simpler than a portrait on plain background " This sentence was quite interesting. But I suppose that a portrait alone would probably have everything in high definition and might require more work for the texture.
The fact that you pay a lot of attention to texture is also something I should start paying greater attention to. You seem to be using a lot of portrait photography techniques such as high pass and low pass frequency separation etc. so no wonder your portraits have such a different look.
Overall, what I get most is that you have been regularly practicing and thus have years of knowledge that seems to have made the process very intuitive and doodling-like for you. I guess the only way one can acquire something like that is by putting in the hours and the hard work.
Though, knowing your general thoughts definitely serves as a good starting reference.
Thanks a lot for your detailed thoughts! This has been very insightful!
The most amazing part of the answer for me was the time you take for this: 1 hr! Starting from scratch to post-processing in 1 hour? Awesome. This is probably really like muscle memory for you by now.
" A busy scene with lots of objects can be simpler than a portrait on plain background " This sentence was quite interesting. But I suppose that a portrait alone would probably have everything in high definition and might require more work for the texture.
The fact that you pay a lot of attention to texture is also something I should start paying greater attention to. You seem to be using a lot of portrait photography techniques such as high pass and low pass frequency separation etc. so no wonder your portraits have such a different look.
Overall, what I get most is that you have been regularly practicing and thus have years of knowledge that seems to have made the process very intuitive and doodling-like for you. I guess the only way one can acquire something like that is by putting in the hours and the hard work.
Though, knowing your general thoughts definitely serves as a good starting reference.
Thanks a lot for your detailed thoughts! This has been very insightful!
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