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GLBAnother content thief?
757Thread Activity
IAmAFoxTue, Aug 26
KooldudeMon, Aug 25
guy91600Mon, Aug 25
Luxe MuseMon, Aug 25
wesley23Mon, Aug 25
KooldudeMon, Aug 25
Hmmm ... they are identical products in any case. And somehow the names of the producers don't really fit together when you compare DAZ with RH. Personally, I can't imagine why Colm Jackson would sell here (he's very well established at DAZ).
Maybe contact Rango2001 first???
Maybe contact Rango2001 first???
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Beautiful Misfits
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Mon, Jun 16I would contact Colm first, since these are his products 
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,953
Mon, Jun 16Rango is obviously the thief. This is starting to become a pattern here at Renderhub.
They better start doing a better job of policing the uploads. Can't use the excuse that we let users upload freely. Unacceptable.
They better start doing a better job of policing the uploads. Can't use the excuse that we let users upload freely. Unacceptable.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 38,710
Mon, Jun 16I have written an email to the support team as I don't know how to contact Colm Jackson.
it is pretty stupid to turn a blind eye to something this blatant when money is changing hands, RH site policy should be very stern on this kind of thing imo. do it once, banned permanently.
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Tenserknot
Karma: 7,953
Mon, Jun 16Absolutely agree with that. Bad behavior needs to be dealt with swiftly.
JohnnyLuck777
Karma: 4,357
Mon, Jun 16RenderHub does have a policy. I can't find it, but a while back I read somewhere that it's similar to YouTube's three strike policy.
Here's what they have posted: https://www.renderhub.com/info/terms-of-use#p08
Here's what they have posted: https://www.renderhub.com/info/terms-of-use#p08
JohnnyLuck777
Karma: 4,357
Mon, Jun 168.1 Notice. We take claims of alleged infringement seriously, and will respond to notices of alleged copyright infringement under the United States Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Please see our DMCA Notice. We also work to ensure that content on our Site does not infringe upon the trademark or other intellectual property rights of third parties. If you believe that your intellectual property rights have been infringed, please submit a Notice of Claimed Infringement.
8.2 IP Enforcement. It is RenderHub’s policy, in appropriate circumstances, to terminate the accounts of Users who are repeat infringers or who are repeatedly charged with infringement. Even if you are infringing IP without knowledge, we will still take action and your account might receive a warning or be suspended or terminated. You should consult an attorney for help to ensure that you have the right procedures in place to prevent IP infringement.
8.2 IP Enforcement. It is RenderHub’s policy, in appropriate circumstances, to terminate the accounts of Users who are repeat infringers or who are repeatedly charged with infringement. Even if you are infringing IP without knowledge, we will still take action and your account might receive a warning or be suspended or terminated. You should consult an attorney for help to ensure that you have the right procedures in place to prevent IP infringement.
It looks like RH has already taken the content down. The Mitsumi link leads to an oops page.
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Tenserknot
Karma: 7,953
Mon, Jun 16The Mitsumi is gone but the other one is still there. It maybe listed as a Daz Original, but it is still a blatant rip of the Daz3D product. It needs to go too. This is about perception and integrity.
@Tenserknot - "They better start doing a better job of policing the uploads"
I'm totally against content theft of any kind, but how would that go exactly? How could any single person acting as "RenderHub Police" possibly know if an uploaded product was stolen?
They would have to know the existence of every single product on every single website on the internet. That, in itself, is pretty unrealistic. On top of that, they would have to know that it's not the owner uploading it themselves, maybe with a different username.
I remember when Sagittarius A, here on RenderHub, got accused of "stealing" his own products. He's Hameleon at Renderosity.
https://www.renderhub.com/sagittarius-a
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/vendors/hameleon
I'm totally against content theft of any kind, but how would that go exactly? How could any single person acting as "RenderHub Police" possibly know if an uploaded product was stolen?
They would have to know the existence of every single product on every single website on the internet. That, in itself, is pretty unrealistic. On top of that, they would have to know that it's not the owner uploading it themselves, maybe with a different username.
I remember when Sagittarius A, here on RenderHub, got accused of "stealing" his own products. He's Hameleon at Renderosity.
https://www.renderhub.com/sagittarius-a
https://www.renderosity.com/marketplace/vendors/hameleon
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JohnnyLuck777
Karma: 4,357
Mon, Jun 16In the OP's example, it's pretty clear - but it's not always that way. That's why the DMCA exists - to protect the rights of copyright holders, and make it so websites don't have to investigate or "guess" if something violates a copyright or not. If it is a violation, the content owner files a DMCA takedown and the website complies. Simple as that.
Just in case anyone is unclear about this, here's the language from RenderHub's TOU:
https://www.renderhub.com/info/terms-of-use#p05
"RenderHub is not in a position to offer legal advice or make legal determinations as to whether Your Content infringes someone else’s intellectual property. You understand that you are solely responsible for Your Content, and you represent that you have all necessary rights to Your Content and that you are not infringing or violating any third party’s rights by posting it. Violating the intellectual property rights of brands or other rights owners may result in the loss of selling privileges or other legal consequences."
And RenderHub makes filing a DMCA takedown pretty easy:
https://www.renderhub.com/info/dmca-notice
https://www.renderhub.com/info/dmca-claim
Just in case anyone is unclear about this, here's the language from RenderHub's TOU:
https://www.renderhub.com/info/terms-of-use#p05
"RenderHub is not in a position to offer legal advice or make legal determinations as to whether Your Content infringes someone else’s intellectual property. You understand that you are solely responsible for Your Content, and you represent that you have all necessary rights to Your Content and that you are not infringing or violating any third party’s rights by posting it. Violating the intellectual property rights of brands or other rights owners may result in the loss of selling privileges or other legal consequences."
And RenderHub makes filing a DMCA takedown pretty easy:
https://www.renderhub.com/info/dmca-notice
https://www.renderhub.com/info/dmca-claim
JohnnyLuck777
Karma: 4,357
Mon, Jun 16If you like this site, let's try not to burn it down for bad actors doing things that are out of RenderHub's control. They have the proper procedures in place to deal with stuff like this, and make it very easy to do.
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,953
Mon, Jun 16I do like this site, but to suggest the publisher of the site that host the violating content doesn't have control of its own site and the way its user, use it, is a bit of a stretch. Whether Daz3d submits a DMCA ir not, it's stolen content, because if Daz3D was going to be selling here, they wouldn't be calling themselves Rango. Renderhub behaving with integrity would pre-emptively remove the offending content.
JohnnyLuck777
Karma: 4,357
Mon, Jun 16"Renderhub behaving with integrity would pre-emptively remove the offending content"
How are they supposed to do that if they don't know about it? Did you read my original post above?
Do you think there's someone at RenderHub sitting around inspecting every product upload and cross-checking it against the entirety of the internet?
How are they supposed to do that if they don't know about it? Did you read my original post above?
Do you think there's someone at RenderHub sitting around inspecting every product upload and cross-checking it against the entirety of the internet?
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,953
Mon, Jun 16I'm not talking in general, I am talking specifically about the links in the first post of this thread. The mitsumi was removed, the goblins which is also in clear violation of DAZ3D intellectual property, has not been remove yet.
JohnnyLuck777
Karma: 4,357
Tue, Jun 17But you were talking in general. Here's what you said:
"This is starting to become a pattern here at Renderhub. They better start doing a better job of policing the uploads."
In any case, this was a whole bunch of unnecessary commotion. Both products are removed now, so the system appears to be working as it should.
"This is starting to become a pattern here at Renderhub. They better start doing a better job of policing the uploads."
In any case, this was a whole bunch of unnecessary commotion. Both products are removed now, so the system appears to be working as it should.
I'm puzzled why they took one product down and left the others up.
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JohnnyLuck777
Karma: 4,357
Mon, Jun 16It's hard to say. Maybe Daz hasn't submitted a DMCA takedown for the other one yet. Maybe RenderHub hasn't got to that report yet. Both of those products were just submitted today, so I'll bet the other one won't last long.
This is not a good look for the store. Not good at all. Yet I think the other will follow soon enough.
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I've seen a few items being sold here the last couple of years that are Daz store products. Usually, the tale sign was a new vendor with an extremely low asking price and the 40% discount added on to top it off. My fix was to email one of the mods over at Daz and let them know. They'll be able to figure out if its legit or not pretty quickly and take the steps to get it pulled over here.
My problem is I don't shop over at Daz that much these days so I'd have a hard time being able to identify the offending product, especially if it was a character.
My problem is I don't shop over at Daz that much these days so I'd have a hard time being able to identify the offending product, especially if it was a character.
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While I buy almost exclusively from here, or an artist's personal site, I visit ALL the brokers every morning so I'm mostly aware of what's available. If I see something that seems wrong such as using a different name and/or a much lower price, I'll message the original artist (this doesn't work for Daz). I've come to realize that the folks who run this place can't possibly check every new item or seller. That's where we, as informed fans and shoppers, can help out. If you see something that makes you suspicious, first send a message to the original artist at Still-think-it's-1996-'osity or Perverted-'otica. There's also smaller personal sites run by individual content artist's like Summoner. Because Daz doesn't let you contact artists, and doesn't seem to care, they're on their own. Only then should you message a mod here. They'll take appropriate action.
Non-Daz/Poser items are much harder to verify since this stuff (especially corporate files) has been widely pirated for decades and is everywhere.
Non-Daz/Poser items are much harder to verify since this stuff (especially corporate files) has been widely pirated for decades and is everywhere.
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Beautiful Misfits
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Wed, Jun 18You can send a normal support ticket at daz, I did and it worked fine
Bobb
Karma: 1,018
Thu, Jun 19I sent several notices to Daz regarding rampant piracy of their items at that nefarious site and received their generic reply, "We take piracy very seriously and are taking steps to deal with it...."
Nothing happened and their items are still openly shared at that place. I've gotten to know a few artists and watch that place for their items. When one pops up, I'll get the download link, send it to the appropriate artist who then takes the matter to the download host. The links are usually gone within an hour. Google is bad as they usually take a day or two to take down the link.
If Daz gave a shit they'd be watching the site themselves and sending out take downs to the file hosts themselves. It only takes a few minutes a day.
Nothing happened and their items are still openly shared at that place. I've gotten to know a few artists and watch that place for their items. When one pops up, I'll get the download link, send it to the appropriate artist who then takes the matter to the download host. The links are usually gone within an hour. Google is bad as they usually take a day or two to take down the link.
If Daz gave a shit they'd be watching the site themselves and sending out take downs to the file hosts themselves. It only takes a few minutes a day.
Beautiful Misfits
Account Closed
Thu, Jun 19I think, to get one or two persons as employees to control the sites, even though it would cost some money, on the long run, they would save a lot.
But daz itself seems not to care, cause they don't really lose, it's the vendor, who's losing the most and they can't have someone controlling all the pirate pages.
But daz itself seems not to care, cause they don't really lose, it's the vendor, who's losing the most and they can't have someone controlling all the pirate pages.
We have had at least 5 products taken down from same vendor and RH still allows them to sell on here. The problem is like this , both RH and the Vendor make money on the stolen item, none of it goes back to the consumer or to the original content creator. Therefore what is the incentive for them to remove the vendors at all, the system should be in place as a simple you get 1 chance with a warning, second offence you are removed from the site. Why are repeat vendors allowed to keep doing this shady bullshit and both RH and them reaping the benefit from others work is what you should really be asking.
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>>>Why are repeat vendors allowed to keep doing this shady bullshit and both RH and them reaping the benefit from others work is what you should really be asking.
Well that doesn't make me feel real confident about selling on this site. So I guess Renderhub's incentive would be to take care of these offenses, otherwise their own reputation is at stake. I've been thinking about adding some things to the store but if you've experienced this issue more than once I guess I'm having second thoughts about selling here now.
Well that doesn't make me feel real confident about selling on this site. So I guess Renderhub's incentive would be to take care of these offenses, otherwise their own reputation is at stake. I've been thinking about adding some things to the store but if you've experienced this issue more than once I guess I'm having second thoughts about selling here now.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 38,710
Mon, Aug 25RH's reputation is already screwed! That's thanks to the lies, half-truths, and complete fabrications that are regularly posted in various forums... some of which (as you can see in this thread) are justified 
But since you definitely want to offer your own products rather than stolen ones, why should that stop you? After all, Renderhub has received good reviews, too.
But since you definitely want to offer your own products rather than stolen ones, why should that stop you? After all, Renderhub has received good reviews, too.
Beautiful Misfits
Screwed is mildly said.
Account Closed
Mon, Aug 25Screwed is mildly said.
This issue could easily be fixed by them removing offenders on 2nd strike, it would provide much more security for purchaser/vendors. There should also be a list of them so people can know as it happens and who to watchout for. Perhaps we can try and make a petition or somesuch.
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I will also in the bad , comment on the good. They have a very good DCMA takedown system and they are fast to act to remove the stolen content and don't interfere with the process. They just need to remove the repeat offenders as well. I don't like that both RH and Vendor get to keep the money from the stolen content either, while the original vendor gets nothing and their content has been given out to customers that have not paid them. RH should back charge to the vendor for the stolen product and also pay the portion they received to the original vender. Again as the system currently stands there is in incentive for them to get rid of the bad actors as they get money from them for each stolen item sold which I feel is the real issue overall , they are also accomplices in selling stolen products and don't pay restitution for participation.
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wesley23
Karma: 1,077
Mon, Aug 25I totally get your point, but it's important to note that the original creator or IP rights holder in any case has a slew of options under the law to go after ill-gotten gains, notwithstanding the practical realities of such.
"RH should back charge to the vendor for the stolen product and also pay the portion they received to the original vender."
This isn't really a practical or feasible option, for a number of reasons. It goes beyond what the DCMA provides and exposes RH to risk.
"RH should back charge to the vendor for the stolen product and also pay the portion they received to the original vender."
This isn't really a practical or feasible option, for a number of reasons. It goes beyond what the DCMA provides and exposes RH to risk.
Kooldude
Karma: 110
Mon, Aug 25The exposure to risk for RH is the point, that way they will be more careful about allowing repeat offenders to stay active on the site. Honestly I would just be happy if they at least removed the repeat offenders from the site , that would at least show that they care instead of being willing accomplices in the theft.
wesley23
Karma: 1,077
Mon, Aug 25The exposure to risk is precisely why no company would ever willingly do something like you're proposing. For the sake of argument, let's say that RH is now obligated to compensate the original creator or IP rights holder after receiving a DMCA takedown notice. And now, RH wants to get the money it paid to the IP thief.
To achieve that end, RH would have to:
1. Confirm who validly owns the intellectual property to ensure that the payment goes to the right entity.
2. Assign an employee to review all sales of the item in dispute. Once you have that dollar figure, RH would then have to deal with the various payment processors it uses. How does RH manage to force those payment processors (Paypal, banks, etc,) into giving them a single penny absent a court order when they have their own liability to think about? Would you be alright with your bank giving away your money on the say so of a third party?
Of course, this is all assuming that there's still money to debit from the account in question, but I'm not getting into a conversation about forensic accounting.
RH might be able to mitigate some risk with IP theft/Fraud insurance, but that's basically passing the costs to the consumer base. Anyway, it's a complex issue.
To achieve that end, RH would have to:
1. Confirm who validly owns the intellectual property to ensure that the payment goes to the right entity.
2. Assign an employee to review all sales of the item in dispute. Once you have that dollar figure, RH would then have to deal with the various payment processors it uses. How does RH manage to force those payment processors (Paypal, banks, etc,) into giving them a single penny absent a court order when they have their own liability to think about? Would you be alright with your bank giving away your money on the say so of a third party?
Of course, this is all assuming that there's still money to debit from the account in question, but I'm not getting into a conversation about forensic accounting.
RH might be able to mitigate some risk with IP theft/Fraud insurance, but that's basically passing the costs to the consumer base. Anyway, it's a complex issue.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 5,250
Mon, Aug 25Wise words, Wesley23, and that is just the tip of the iceberg. The most feasible solution would be, with the help of the community identifying stolen goods and their owners, is for RH to reach out to the product owner. If the product owner replies and verifies that it is not him, then ban the seller, or at least place a banner over his products that informs buyers it might be a product stolen from XY or something similar.
But whoever does these things, just like the pirates who buy our products on sale and give them away for free so they can earn from ads and the like at the expense of our hard work, is shameless and would simply return with a different account to try selling other stolen products, or even the same ones, since they do not care.
But whoever does these things, just like the pirates who buy our products on sale and give them away for free so they can earn from ads and the like at the expense of our hard work, is shameless and would simply return with a different account to try selling other stolen products, or even the same ones, since they do not care.
guy91600
Karma: 14,037
Mon, Aug 25And we're back to square one. The laws are poorly written, and no one wants to improve them...
Identify and ban an offender, and they come back under a different pseudonym.
The difficulty of shutting down sites that offer pirated products under the pretext that the site only contains links.
Identify and ban an offender, and they come back under a different pseudonym.
The difficulty of shutting down sites that offer pirated products under the pretext that the site only contains links.
Sure they can come back under different name, but that is at least some work to setup new account and they would also have to setup different payment account as the one attached to the banned vendor would also be banned . While not a perfect solution but certainly better then just allowing them to continue on with 0 accountability or repercussions and as a vendor of the stolen property having to come back and see them repeatedly stealing and reselling your work while both they and the site get the profits from it.
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The way I see it as a seller.
Imagine yourself as a new buyer.
You're looking through renderhub, slowly figuring out that there's shops selling stolen FREE -CC BY NC- 3D content from websites such as smutbase (for this example).
I would then think "are all sellers doing the same thing?"
If you're a returning customer who understands the website and how it works, you may still be fooled.
Hence giving mine and many other talented original sellers a bad reputation.
Be a smart buyer and cross check products with their seller page.
Imagine yourself as a new buyer.
You're looking through renderhub, slowly figuring out that there's shops selling stolen FREE -CC BY NC- 3D content from websites such as smutbase (for this example).
I would then think "are all sellers doing the same thing?"
If you're a returning customer who understands the website and how it works, you may still be fooled.
Hence giving mine and many other talented original sellers a bad reputation.
Be a smart buyer and cross check products with their seller page.
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