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GLBAre DAZ originals really always better?
769Thread Activity
Beautiful MisfitsThu, Sep 11
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Many people boast that they only buy from the DAZ Shop because the products there have been thoroughly tested by the DAZ team and can be purchased without hesitation.
But is that really true for every product?
I don't want to bash the DAZ Shop, as many of their products are truly first-class ... but unfortunately, there are also a significant number of outliers.
Here is a list of my experiences:
* 3D clothing that creates a bunch of poke throughs even with regular DAZ base poses (e.g. sitting) ... and is useless for my exaggerated poses
* 3D shirts that don't even pass my basic ARMS UP tests without looking stupid
* A 3D dForce sweater that creates a kind of chicken wings effect in the aforementioned ARMS UP test ... which then look like overcooked chicken wings after the simulation.
* 3D pants that do not follow DAZ's specified storage rules, but are stored in a folder that is completely separate from everything else
* 3D hair that does not look 100% like it does in the promos (manipulated images?) or where textures are missing
* 3D dForce hair that looks like seaweed on a bald head after simulation - no matter what settings you use
What are your experiences?
From a technical standpoint, are you always 100% satisfied with DAZ Shop products?
But is that really true for every product?
I don't want to bash the DAZ Shop, as many of their products are truly first-class ... but unfortunately, there are also a significant number of outliers.
Here is a list of my experiences:
* 3D clothing that creates a bunch of poke throughs even with regular DAZ base poses (e.g. sitting) ... and is useless for my exaggerated poses
* 3D shirts that don't even pass my basic ARMS UP tests without looking stupid
* A 3D dForce sweater that creates a kind of chicken wings effect in the aforementioned ARMS UP test ... which then look like overcooked chicken wings after the simulation.
* 3D pants that do not follow DAZ's specified storage rules, but are stored in a folder that is completely separate from everything else
* 3D hair that does not look 100% like it does in the promos (manipulated images?) or where textures are missing
* 3D dForce hair that looks like seaweed on a bald head after simulation - no matter what settings you use
What are your experiences?
From a technical standpoint, are you always 100% satisfied with DAZ Shop products?
! REPORT
Oops... I have to answer my own thread again, because I forgot something important:
* Short 3D pants with such crappy mesh that even with the best rigging and lots of JCMs, they couldn't follow any pose except the T-pose
* Short 3D pants with such crappy mesh that even with the best rigging and lots of JCMs, they couldn't follow any pose except the T-pose
REPLY
! REPORT
No, they are not. There's nothing that makes "Daz Originals" better than any other product in the Daz store. In most cases, "Daz Originals" just means the PA has accepted a buyout from Daz Productions, and the creator has given up future royalties. Daz owns it now.
"Thoroughly tested"... Please excuse me while I choke on my drink. LOL. I've seen pretty much every bad example you listed, and more. Both parts of Quality and Assurance with Daz QA have left the building long ago.
What annoys me at the Daz store is when you report an obvious problem with a product, and they leave it in the marketplace to continue annoying more customers. At least here at RenderHub, if there's a problem, they remove the product from the store until the vendor fixes it. That's a signal to me that RenderHub actually cares about the customer experience, even if some vendors cause a bad experience to start.
"Thoroughly tested"... Please excuse me while I choke on my drink. LOL. I've seen pretty much every bad example you listed, and more. Both parts of Quality and Assurance with Daz QA have left the building long ago.
What annoys me at the Daz store is when you report an obvious problem with a product, and they leave it in the marketplace to continue annoying more customers. At least here at RenderHub, if there's a problem, they remove the product from the store until the vendor fixes it. That's a signal to me that RenderHub actually cares about the customer experience, even if some vendors cause a bad experience to start.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Fri, Aug 08So it seems that I'm not the only one who feels (and is certain) that not everything that comes from the DAZ Store is gold 
And when it comes to Renderhub: 100% agreement
And when it comes to Renderhub: 100% agreement
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Fri, Aug 08I second this, bought a product, it wasn't working at all. Tried to contact the vendor and after that the support.
Got an answer right away and my money back.
Only that the product is still available, but maybe it's working fine in other programs.
Got an answer right away and my money back.
Only that the product is still available, but maybe it's working fine in other programs.
Several years ago,a very well known DAZ PA(Sickelyield?) once posted that the prevailing factor in getting your submitted clothing product ,approved by Daz, is the quality of your promo renders in Iray.
Not that actual functionality of the item.
As a merchant of animation products I know ,for a fact, that Daz does not even check to see if a certain PA (Havanalibre) is reselling the FREE mixamo animations ,as his own work, for years in the Daz shop, for as high as $20 per animation, after porting them to G8-9 with Autodesk motionbuilder.
This Violates the Adobe/Mixamo EULA prohibiting commercial sale of the free motions
But if I call him out by name they will delete my post
I have the entire Mixamo library saved offline so I used My Iclone retarget software to convert the entire Mixamo library to G8 compatible BVH motions and gave them away to the community as a freebie to flood the Market to devalue his marked up, fake animation products.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8860216/
Not that actual functionality of the item.
As a merchant of animation products I know ,for a fact, that Daz does not even check to see if a certain PA (Havanalibre) is reselling the FREE mixamo animations ,as his own work, for years in the Daz shop, for as high as $20 per animation, after porting them to G8-9 with Autodesk motionbuilder.
This Violates the Adobe/Mixamo EULA prohibiting commercial sale of the free motions
But if I call him out by name they will delete my post
I have the entire Mixamo library saved offline so I used My Iclone retarget software to convert the entire Mixamo library to G8 compatible BVH motions and gave them away to the community as a freebie to flood the Market to devalue his marked up, fake animation products.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/comment/8860216/
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lukon
Karma: 6,297
Fri, Aug 08I too have seen the SycleYield comment stating the Daz accepts products base only on the promo renders.
If that is so, however, Daz has apparently even slacked off on what makes a good promo render.
I just looked at the new “Floating Islandspromo renders. They show the bidges between the islands clearly colliding with the islands. The render artist could not even pose the assets correctly for the promo pictures?
https://www.daz3d.com/ap-floating-islands
If that is so, however, Daz has apparently even slacked off on what makes a good promo render.
I just looked at the new “Floating Islandspromo renders. They show the bidges between the islands clearly colliding with the islands. The render artist could not even pose the assets correctly for the promo pictures?
https://www.daz3d.com/ap-floating-islands
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Fri, Aug 08*lol* that reminds me on another question that was asked by Masterstroke (scroll down a btit)
How many more floating islands do we need?
How many more floating islands do we need?
I lost my trust in the quality a long time ago, after I saw many vendors there, that made "quality" like what you got once at content paradise.
Dforce hair? gimme a break, a disaster in almost every case.
Dforce cloth, the explosions are annoying, and I tried many different settings with posing, character/no character (even this makes a difference for whatever reason)
Yes, there are still a lot of very good vendors, that take care and have a name, they don't wanna risk. And from those we still get high quality products.
But let's face the truth, the days with high quality at daz are over.
Dforce hair? gimme a break, a disaster in almost every case.
Dforce cloth, the explosions are annoying, and I tried many different settings with posing, character/no character (even this makes a difference for whatever reason)
Yes, there are still a lot of very good vendors, that take care and have a name, they don't wanna risk. And from those we still get high quality products.
But let's face the truth, the days with high quality at daz are over.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Sat, Aug 09" Dforce cloth, the explosions are annoying, and I tried many different settings with posing, character/no character (even this makes a difference for whatever reason) "
It's about the mesh and the distribution/proximity of the vertices. Here's an attempt at an explanation:
Imagine a 3D garment with real hem. The hems are formed by tubes. This means that the vertices are very close together. If, during the simulation iterations, seams (or other parts with dense vertices) hit an object (finger, chair, whatever), they are compressed/pressed even closer together in the first iteration.
In the next iteration, the algorithm notices that the vertices are much too close together (i.e., they do not meet the collision specifications) and attempts to separate them in any way possible. With DAZ, this occurs in various directions (up, down, right, left). This game repeats itself with each new iteration... and in the end, you end up with exploding knickers
You can try turning off self-collision. This will result in strange 3D clothing in several places, as folds will penetrate/overlap each other, for example... but this can possibly be concealed with the right camera perspective.
It's about the mesh and the distribution/proximity of the vertices. Here's an attempt at an explanation:
Imagine a 3D garment with real hem. The hems are formed by tubes. This means that the vertices are very close together. If, during the simulation iterations, seams (or other parts with dense vertices) hit an object (finger, chair, whatever), they are compressed/pressed even closer together in the first iteration.
In the next iteration, the algorithm notices that the vertices are much too close together (i.e., they do not meet the collision specifications) and attempts to separate them in any way possible. With DAZ, this occurs in various directions (up, down, right, left). This game repeats itself with each new iteration... and in the end, you end up with exploding knickers
You can try turning off self-collision. This will result in strange 3D clothing in several places, as folds will penetrate/overlap each other, for example... but this can possibly be concealed with the right camera perspective.
I DO want to trash Daz. These days it's all about money and to hell with quality or long term viability. A few PA's take pride in their products and are available to answer questions in the forums. The rest grind shit out and couldn't care less about fixing anything. I'm sure Daz uses a 3D sweatshop somewhere to make some of it's stuff. Add constant and overbearing forum moderation by that asshole Haseltine, and it's no wonder that there's so little traffic in their forums. I also read several Discord servers and the Daz sub/Reddit. The present management of Daz has turned it into an equity firm with the only goal being creating the appearance of a leading edge graphics company so that the stock price goes up so that they can sell it at a profit and disappear with the money.
Download and archive all your content and all versions of Studio so that when it goes under, you still have everything and can keep 'playing dolls'.
Download and archive all your content and all versions of Studio so that when it goes under, you still have everything and can keep 'playing dolls'.
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(Edited)
Today my plus membership ended. I don't really see that quality is going down, but there is stagnation, where it should be progress.
Dforce strand based hair does look better now, but for the cost of making your PC creep and crawl. The cool hair is for G9 only which IS a downgrade from G8.
My conflict is, that I am way too deep in that DAZ rabbit hole to leave.
Aside from the DAZ/Taffi company issues, I am actually quite unhappy with the products offered by various vendors.
Main problem might be capitalist mainstream offerings, which upsets me in so many ways and other branches as well.
What do I mean?
How many more cyberpunk city scapes do we need?
How many more gamer lairs do we need?
How many more steampunk dresses?
How many more garter belt lingery clothes?
How many more tattoo LIE sets?
(And I am personally fed up with any US-American architecture/cityscape Interiore culture related bullsh!t) ... for obvious reasons. [wink]
Customers purchase that stuff and vendors focussing on that stuff at the cost of variety.
As a test, try to find recent polygon dforce hair, also available for G8, except by Linday
Try to find high quality non American, European architecture, except by Stonemason
Try to find appartments, that are not straight line modern architecture.
Try to find average income buildings and interiors, that are not mansions, NY lofts or dream homes.
Example:
At Renderosity there is only ONE Paris line by Powerage, that exists, because I asked him to create some.
Paris is a tourists magnet. Why is there almost no Paris related content?
could be true for any other European city environment.
Yes, I am venting again. DAZ is dying right now the way Poser died.
Not only because of a DAZ management, that doesn't give feces, but also vendors, just focussing on supposedly safe products, but also a customer base, that doesn't make any demands and just eat happily, what they got offered.
This is the bubble and it is about to pop.
So, I ended my DAZ + membership because of having a minimum interesst in getting more content.
All I need are alternatives and a plan to migrate my character ROXY full functional to another 3d app.
With full functional, I mean including geo shells, geografts, a lot of ERC linked and keyed Expressions and hundrets of keyed JCMs.
Today my plus membership ended. I don't really see that quality is going down, but there is stagnation, where it should be progress.
Dforce strand based hair does look better now, but for the cost of making your PC creep and crawl. The cool hair is for G9 only which IS a downgrade from G8.
My conflict is, that I am way too deep in that DAZ rabbit hole to leave.
Aside from the DAZ/Taffi company issues, I am actually quite unhappy with the products offered by various vendors.
Main problem might be capitalist mainstream offerings, which upsets me in so many ways and other branches as well.
What do I mean?
How many more cyberpunk city scapes do we need?
How many more gamer lairs do we need?
How many more steampunk dresses?
How many more garter belt lingery clothes?
How many more tattoo LIE sets?
(And I am personally fed up with any US-American architecture/cityscape Interiore culture related bullsh!t) ... for obvious reasons. [wink]
Customers purchase that stuff and vendors focussing on that stuff at the cost of variety.
As a test, try to find recent polygon dforce hair, also available for G8, except by Linday
Try to find high quality non American, European architecture, except by Stonemason
Try to find appartments, that are not straight line modern architecture.
Try to find average income buildings and interiors, that are not mansions, NY lofts or dream homes.
Example:
At Renderosity there is only ONE Paris line by Powerage, that exists, because I asked him to create some.
Paris is a tourists magnet. Why is there almost no Paris related content?
could be true for any other European city environment.
Yes, I am venting again. DAZ is dying right now the way Poser died.
Not only because of a DAZ management, that doesn't give feces, but also vendors, just focussing on supposedly safe products, but also a customer base, that doesn't make any demands and just eat happily, what they got offered.
This is the bubble and it is about to pop.
So, I ended my DAZ + membership because of having a minimum interesst in getting more content.
All I need are alternatives and a plan to migrate my character ROXY full functional to another 3d app.
With full functional, I mean including geo shells, geografts, a lot of ERC linked and keyed Expressions and hundrets of keyed JCMs.
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! REPORT
thirdeyezennicai
Karma: 10,994
Fri, Aug 08yeah. every time I see another cyberpunk or lingerie anything, I just roll my eyes to the back of my fucking head lmao. DAZ store really need to diversify the products, it doesn't hurt in the slightest to give it a shot.
no offense to the vendors, though. they gotta make their bread somehow.
no offense to the vendors, though. they gotta make their bread somehow.
MKDAWUSS
Karma: 50,223
Fri, Aug 08Kinda reminds me of when it seemed like just about every shirt for DAZ females had bellies showing. The trend must be chased, apparently.
yester64
Karma: 212
Mon, Aug 25Agree with room assets. I never found something the resemblance a real European apartment that is small cut. A little on the ugly side. Most things are more well off people's dwelling. I'll guess that's the fantasy people are graving.
Ill refrain from naming the artist, as everyone makes mistakes. However, I purchased a lovely dForce long dress from DAZ that I intended to use for my promotional materials. Unfortunately, the dress was designed to fit only the specific character it was bundled with, not even the Genesis 9 base figure. If I had wanted dramatic effects like firework explosions, I would have chosen a special effects product instead of a dress.
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! REPORT
I've always viewed Daz Originals the same way I view door-buster items for holiday sales or that odd sighting of a Samsung TV at Wal-Mart that is somehow less than half the price of the original because it's a B-model in the same case but with inferior parts, especially ones issued for Daz+. High-glitz items that are packaged to look good but can be sold at the maximum discount without offending the artist who made it, because they were just paid off entirely. The freebies that come with the membership have all the usefulness of a Kinder Egg toy, rigid, minimalist props or yet another bullspit flower. The core characters now are made to fuel their second tier of membership, generic-themed churn that's not even worth your monthly payment, but buying it grants you discounts that allow you to ram a corn cob up their PAs' keisters without even the mercy of KY Jelly.
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! REPORT
I still remember the last Day 1 Impulse buy I made over there - it filled a want/need of mine. .........let's just say that I used items in that bundle for like, 3 renders. I should have looked at things with a bit more detail.
That want/need is still there. lol
That want/need is still there. lol
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! REPORT
The only thing the DAZ office cares about is the cha-ching of the purchase by the customer. They sell products, and it gives them enough money to survive one more month.
Daz Originals are just buyouts. nothing special about them except that the PA that sold the rights to daz in perpetuaity. It's usually the new or average PAs that jump at the chance. Established PAs will always make more money retaining ownership and selling quality products with their own storefront.
Daz Originals are just buyouts. nothing special about them except that the PA that sold the rights to daz in perpetuaity. It's usually the new or average PAs that jump at the chance. Established PAs will always make more money retaining ownership and selling quality products with their own storefront.
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! REPORT
At least this is one of the nice things about RenderHub. Sure, some try to chase what sells (or seems to sell), but there does seem to be a freedom to make who and what you want (when everyone's making the trendy thing, it gives the impression they're being told what to make by the suits upstairs), and it's not all the same thing coming down the production pipelines. Yeah, there are plenty of shortages - and hopefully they'll get filled - but it's not all the same thing at the same time.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Sun, Aug 10Can you name the plenty of shortages? This might be interesting for some CCs and give them other ideas. Sure—there's also a wish list here in the forum—but personally, I find the wishes there to be too restrictive and too specific.
MKDAWUSS
Karma: 50,223
Sun, Aug 10There's probably a thread in an of itself right there. lol
OK - just checked, and I did have a thread on that question way back when - https://www.renderhub.com/forum/3505/things-you-thought-youd-see-more-of-like-to-see-more-of
Nothing right now comes to mind (outside the "anything but..." highlighted in this thread, but that's hardly a help to our CCs) - at least nothing beyond a few niche items or personal short-term needs.
OK - just checked, and I did have a thread on that question way back when - https://www.renderhub.com/forum/3505/things-you-thought-youd-see-more-of-like-to-see-more-of
Nothing right now comes to mind (outside the "anything but..." highlighted in this thread, but that's hardly a help to our CCs) - at least nothing beyond a few niche items or personal short-term needs.
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Sun, Aug 24Surprisingly that thread was closed. perhaps it is time for a new thread.
Thank you very much for your contributions
... now I know that I am not alone with my doubts about the rumored quality of DAZ Shop products
Some of your posts got me thinking about what YOU expect from DAZ 3D clothing... and whether that matches MY expectations and creative approaches. I'm afraid that's not the case... but I might start a thread on the topic after all.
Have a wonderful day, everyone
... now I know that I am not alone with my doubts about the rumored quality of DAZ Shop products
Some of your posts got me thinking about what YOU expect from DAZ 3D clothing... and whether that matches MY expectations and creative approaches. I'm afraid that's not the case... but I might start a thread on the topic after all.
Have a wonderful day, everyone
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! REPORT
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Sun, Aug 10The thread on "what YOU expect from DAZ 3D clothing" is created
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/10877/what-do-you-expect-from-3d-clothing-for-daz
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/10877/what-do-you-expect-from-3d-clothing-for-daz
Like others have already said - no, Daz Originals are not better. I'll just add my two cents and confirm I've seen plenty of problems with Daz Originals, just like others have mentioned.
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! REPORT
No. I tend to disagree with those people who buy "without hesitation" because all my purchases over at the DAZ shop are filled with various degrees of hesitation since they don't even list the download sizes. They're trying to hide unoptimized high-poly models and characters that are essentially bloat, mostly due to the 8k mats and pointless need for HD morphs, since the characters are fairly young and smooth.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Fri, Aug 15A nice summary! Thank you very much
As far as originality goes, I think we CCs here at Renderhub have already surpassed the DAZ Shop ... we're all (myself included) still working a little on the quality - and then the DAZ Shop can close (or at least only open for the stubborn deniers of reality
As far as originality goes, I think we CCs here at Renderhub have already surpassed the DAZ Shop ... we're all (myself included) still working a little on the quality - and then the DAZ Shop can close (or at least only open for the stubborn deniers of reality
MimicMolly
Karma: 279
Fri, Aug 15For "quality," I always tend to find it in products that were created by someone who respects their craft and wants to make it usable to others. And these types of vendors can be found anywhere. At RH, it's easy for them to get the chance.
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Sun, Aug 24Daz3d has always had a problem with providing sufficient information on their store page. polycount, download size, wireframe images.
MimicMolly
Karma: 279
Tue, Aug 26Yeah, the people who are friends with the DAZ Store PAs, like that whole "DAZ Slackers" Discord server, love to defend this questionable business practice.
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Tue, Aug 26And it is exactly those questionable practice that stopped purchasing from them.
I've tested some that are excellent and others that I would never use. By doing promos you have the opportunity to test many of them, some I would never use, in many cases I really struggled to make a satisfactory simulation, my job is to make them look good to attract the buyer, in some cases I lose the desire to work on them... like all the stories you find good material and less good, the challenge is to make it all fantastic.
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! REPORT
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Fri, Aug 15Gotcha! So it was you who tempted me to buy junk with great promotions???
Nope - just kidding
I know all about " making something look good " from my own experience - or rather, from my educational background. That's why I never worked in my actual job
Nope - just kidding
I know all about " making something look good " from my own experience - or rather, from my educational background. That's why I never worked in my actual job
the joker of spades
Karma: 23,063
Sat, Aug 16haha,I have nothing to do with this story...I'm a good guy
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Sun, Aug 24look, we all know that great promos sell products. Making a great promo from a mediocre product is actually a very valuable skill.
Making a good promo from a great product, is easier, but still super valuable.
Thanks goodness for bad promos. Money stays in the wallet a lot easier.
Making a good promo from a great product, is easier, but still super valuable.
Thanks goodness for bad promos. Money stays in the wallet a lot easier.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 5,150
Tue, Aug 26There are also bad promos or promos that could be better for great products, like this hair: https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-long-hair-for-genesis-9
Also, someone that goes by the nick Luxe Muse, although well, hi, hi, hi
Also, someone that goes by the nick Luxe Muse, although well, hi, hi, hi
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Wed, Aug 27There are promo art collectives that will make promo art for products at very reasonable rates. Or atleast there used to be. Not sure if they're still as active as before.
Not sure.
As i am more of a newbie still, my perspective is this.
Some vendors do a good job with clothing. I like OOT and Aeon. Besides that, i am not too happy. The problem is, that you like what you see and once you have it, its not that.
Dforce is nice but i still struggle with it.
I bought once a Linsay hair. Dforce Sidelayered Hair. I really like this hair. It looks great.
But Dforce being what it is, it collides sometimes. So whenever i can, i use non dfroce clothing. This is actually hard, as the majority of clothing is dforce.
My assumption was, that devs probably think that anyone who buys that will know how to do it. Meaning, they like a pro or advanced in knowledge with the DAZ software.
I am hesitant to buy just something looks good but rather who made it. Thats my quality control.
The "original" seems to be a label. Just like "made in". Its just a marketing label and therefore as no real meaning.
I am glad i am not a game dev, it would drive me nuts.
As i am more of a newbie still, my perspective is this.
Some vendors do a good job with clothing. I like OOT and Aeon. Besides that, i am not too happy. The problem is, that you like what you see and once you have it, its not that.
Dforce is nice but i still struggle with it.
I bought once a Linsay hair. Dforce Sidelayered Hair. I really like this hair. It looks great.
But Dforce being what it is, it collides sometimes. So whenever i can, i use non dfroce clothing. This is actually hard, as the majority of clothing is dforce.
My assumption was, that devs probably think that anyone who buys that will know how to do it. Meaning, they like a pro or advanced in knowledge with the DAZ software.
I am hesitant to buy just something looks good but rather who made it. Thats my quality control.
The "original" seems to be a label. Just like "made in". Its just a marketing label and therefore as no real meaning.
I am glad i am not a game dev, it would drive me nuts.
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DoroThee237
Karma: 13,427
Sat, Aug 23Quote : I am hesitant to buy just something looks good but rather who made it. Thats my quality control.
This is why sellers offer free products: so you can try out some products without taking any financial risk!
This is why sellers offer free products: so you can try out some products without taking any financial risk!
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Sat, Aug 23@yester64
Thank you very much for your contribution
You raise various interesting topics. I will only address two of them here:
A) " The problem is, that you like what you see and once you have it, its not that. "
Oh yeah - unfortunately, I've fallen into that trap way too often. In my other thread, I posted a screenshot of a pair of horror shorts. They can only be used in very simple poses, as the topography does not allow for more complex movements. But the (manipulated?) promos looked great ...
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/10877/what-do-you-expect-from-3d-clothing-for-daz
B) The dForce Thing
I read posts here and on other forums saying that they only buy 3D clothing with dForce. I have no idea why or what wonders these users expect... maybe wonderful dForce explosions of the 3D Clothing? Due to this user pressure (especially from the DAZ camp), many producers activate dForce ... even if they have little or no understanding of its intricacies and controls. Well ...
But there is one good thing about dForce: even when it is activated, you don't have to use it
Have a nice day
Thank you very much for your contribution
You raise various interesting topics. I will only address two of them here:
A) " The problem is, that you like what you see and once you have it, its not that. "
Oh yeah - unfortunately, I've fallen into that trap way too often. In my other thread, I posted a screenshot of a pair of horror shorts. They can only be used in very simple poses, as the topography does not allow for more complex movements. But the (manipulated?) promos looked great ...
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/10877/what-do-you-expect-from-3d-clothing-for-daz
B) The dForce Thing
I read posts here and on other forums saying that they only buy 3D clothing with dForce. I have no idea why or what wonders these users expect... maybe wonderful dForce explosions of the 3D Clothing? Due to this user pressure (especially from the DAZ camp), many producers activate dForce ... even if they have little or no understanding of its intricacies and controls. Well ...
But there is one good thing about dForce: even when it is activated, you don't have to use it
Have a nice day
the joker of spades
Karma: 23,063
Sun, Aug 24Can I ask you how many tutorials you followed to use dforce? Most of the sellers, with the product, tell you how to set up the simulation, at what point to pose, when to add morphs, not to load the materials before simulating, etc. Many times you are in a hurry to do things... on dazstudio, haste is a bad thing, take your time.
yester64
Karma: 212
Sun, Aug 24A few.
Linsay explains it good, though the problem is mostly when you have dforce everything. When colliding, it most of the time will have bad consequences.
I think, with hair, i can at least understand because you want to have the hair move in a more realistic way for a scene.
But clothing isn't so important. At least to me.
And of course, you can remove or deactivate one dforce item at a time to avoid the explosion.
I found dformer very useful for pretty much anything.
And yes, haste. I am not very patient i think, so that will certainly contribute to the outcome. lol
Linsay explains it good, though the problem is mostly when you have dforce everything. When colliding, it most of the time will have bad consequences.
I think, with hair, i can at least understand because you want to have the hair move in a more realistic way for a scene.
But clothing isn't so important. At least to me.
And of course, you can remove or deactivate one dforce item at a time to avoid the explosion.
I found dformer very useful for pretty much anything.
And yes, haste. I am not very patient i think, so that will certainly contribute to the outcome. lol
DoroThee237
Karma: 13,427
Sun, Aug 24It is true that for a still image dForce brings a plus that makes the clothing more realistic, but its interest is for an animation, for example when genesis walks and his hands brush against the skirt this makes the animation more realistic
yester64
Karma: 212
Sun, Aug 24@Pushee-Ri
My personal opinion is this. Some clothing probably benefits from dforce like skirts or a dress. Other not really, like pants or a blazer.
To a) It is very human to be infatuated by emotions. So seeing something you like, especially sexy clothing removes sometimes judgment of if this piece is actually worth besides what it invokes.
to b) yes, you can i suppose. Though for hair, they usually don't have morphs in which case (for clothing) you need some tool to make it work.
I think my biggest gripes is with whats available vs. what sells. There isn't so much, what i would call normal clothing vs. sexy clothing. But this is DAZ world. I think with DAZ you definitely benefit if you can create things yourself, which i sadly can't.
My personal opinion is this. Some clothing probably benefits from dforce like skirts or a dress. Other not really, like pants or a blazer.
To a) It is very human to be infatuated by emotions. So seeing something you like, especially sexy clothing removes sometimes judgment of if this piece is actually worth besides what it invokes.
to b) yes, you can i suppose. Though for hair, they usually don't have morphs in which case (for clothing) you need some tool to make it work.
I think my biggest gripes is with whats available vs. what sells. There isn't so much, what i would call normal clothing vs. sexy clothing. But this is DAZ world. I think with DAZ you definitely benefit if you can create things yourself, which i sadly can't.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 5,150
Mon, Aug 25Oh yes, I tried a dforce leotard in an attempt to make a gymnastics animation and oh my gosh!
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Tue, Aug 26@Luxe:
A leotard with dForce?
I always thought leotards were really tight-fitting. I'm wondering what dForce is supposed to do there (big question mark flashing above my head
A leotard with dForce?
I always thought leotards were really tight-fitting. I'm wondering what dForce is supposed to do there (big question mark flashing above my head
Luxe Muse
Karma: 5,150
Tue, Aug 26You and I both, hi, hi, hi! I assume perhaps, it was meant to drape with the breast of a character, or something, as if gymnasts usually have large breast....
It was a lovely leotard however, with plenty of themed textures, specifically meant for gymnastics (I won't share who's because is not ethical and he/she might be here too). There are more at DAZ (Leotards with dforce), that is not the only one although, I won't buy any that says dforce ever again.
It was a lovely leotard however, with plenty of themed textures, specifically meant for gymnastics (I won't share who's because is not ethical and he/she might be here too). There are more at DAZ (Leotards with dforce), that is not the only one although, I won't buy any that says dforce ever again.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Tue, Aug 26@Luxe:
Ahhhh - I understand. So, the usual: " Anything that can be equipped with dForce will be equipped with dForce "
... whether it's clothing, hair, chairs, models, dinosaurs, or the next fruit prop.
dForce Rules...
NOT
Ahhhh - I understand. So, the usual: " Anything that can be equipped with dForce will be equipped with dForce "
... whether it's clothing, hair, chairs, models, dinosaurs, or the next fruit prop.
dForce Rules...
NOT
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Tue, Aug 26@Pushee-Ri
exactly.
Which brings me to dforce hair
Why does this hair need dforce simulations?
https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-ultimate-buzzcut-hair-for-genesis-9
exactly.
Which brings me to dforce hair
Why does this hair need dforce simulations?
https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-ultimate-buzzcut-hair-for-genesis-9
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Tue, Aug 26@Masterstroke:
LMAO - unbelievable!!!
This raises the question: is it just dForce madness - or is it already dForce brain death?
LMAO - unbelievable!!!
This raises the question: is it just dForce madness - or is it already dForce brain death?
Yee-haw!!! DAZ Originals!!!!
I actually wanted to put together a scene that just popped into my head... and then this...
I always thought that you had to pay attention to quality, etc., when it came to free extras for products... but DAZ seems to disagree
I actually wanted to put together a scene that just popped into my head... and then this...
I always thought that you had to pay attention to quality, etc., when it came to free extras for products... but DAZ seems to disagree
REPLY
! REPORT
DoroThee237
Karma: 13,427
Sun, Sep 07This smells like pants created for an old version of Genesis and hastily transferred to G9!
The author of this thing is discrediting his entire store!
The author of this thing is discrediting his entire store!
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Sun, Sep 07100% agree!
But it's not just their own store, but (in my opinion) DAZ as well. After all, they supposedly " test " there ... Bwahahaha
But it's not just their own store, but (in my opinion) DAZ as well. After all, they supposedly " test " there ... Bwahahaha
dirtrider00
Karma: 16,490
Sun, Sep 07In fairness, it was made for a female, has plenty of adjustment morphs, and is Dforce. Have to see it on a G9 female before I'd write it off.
Hyxod
Karma: 6,748
Thu, Sep 11that seems like an easy fix with smoothing iterations enabled, if it doesn't work then just upscale the pants between 101 and 105% and you should be good
In reply to your Mango Movement example, went and bought it for 4 bucks. Only thing I found wrong with it is the dforce description. Only the shirt had dforce applied to it. Sadly the leggings didn't because I really like dforce.
Sorry, would have replied to the actual post but it wouldn't let me post a pic that way.
Sorry, would have replied to the actual post but it wouldn't let me post a pic that way.
REPLY
! REPORT
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Sun, Sep 07Since 3D clothing for G9 must be rigged for Genesis 9 Base (neutral, see DAZ), it is obviously a bad thing if this is not done. In my opinion, this reflects poorly on both the manufacturer and DAZ. It should also be noted that the 3D clothing is only suitable for Genesis 9 Female. However, there is no corresponding and clearly visible note to this effect in the installed product.
Last but not least, I also saw the poke thoughs also when using female models (and lots of them). In other words, we have a product here that only works with fiddling and fumbling. And that is (in my opinion) not good promotion - neither for the producer nor for DAZ.
Last but not least, I also saw the poke thoughs also when using female models (and lots of them). In other words, we have a product here that only works with fiddling and fumbling. And that is (in my opinion) not good promotion - neither for the producer nor for DAZ.
dirtrider00
Karma: 16,490
Sun, Sep 07I'm going to disagree because I haven't had any problems with it and what little poke through I did get in some of the more extreme poses was easily fixed with the adjustment morphs. No biggee though. I don't use 9 that much and don't try to put female clothing on men.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Mon, Sep 08" and don't try to put female clothing on men. "
But I do
Have a nice day
But I do
Have a nice day
Been waiting two weeks for a new Daz Original (Asha dropped 5 weeks ago, Bishop 2 weeks ago), and woke up to this instead:
https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-mb-devil-angel-set-for-genesis-9-female
We went from getting a core character every week to maybe two a month, and when they do show up they come dressed in a cheap Halloween costume straight out of the bargain bin at an Asian bazaar.
https://www.daz3d.com/dforce-mb-devil-angel-set-for-genesis-9-female
We went from getting a core character every week to maybe two a month, and when they do show up they come dressed in a cheap Halloween costume straight out of the bargain bin at an Asian bazaar.
REPLY
! REPORT
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Thu, Sep 11I could write down a lot of reasons, why I never will buy it, but one for now is enough. It looks cheap and I second Pushee-Ri's comment.
