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GLBAI report ignored
2,003Thread Activity
COMIXIANTTue, Oct 14
deathdTue, Oct 14
COMIXIANTTue, Oct 14
deathdTue, Oct 14
COMIXIANTTue, Oct 14
deathdTue, Oct 14
guy91600Tue, Oct 14
COMIXIANTTue, Oct 14
COMIXIANTMon, Oct 13
COMIXIANTMon, Oct 13
Hi 
I'm just wondering, why the reports from AI renders are getting ignored.
Even when the user him/herself has written, that he/she used AI, it's in the main gallery.
"render" so obvious made with AI and that the people also write the used prompt under the images. Report .... and report ignored.
From red back to white.
I copied the prompts and the results were so extreme identical, but hey, for renderhub it's ok to accept "render" completely made with AI.
So AI is now absolute ok in the main gallery and the wallpaper section?
I can't tell, how disappointed I am.
I'm just wondering, why the reports from AI renders are getting ignored.
Even when the user him/herself has written, that he/she used AI, it's in the main gallery.
"render" so obvious made with AI and that the people also write the used prompt under the images. Report .... and report ignored.
From red back to white.
I copied the prompts and the results were so extreme identical, but hey, for renderhub it's ok to accept "render" completely made with AI.
So AI is now absolute ok in the main gallery and the wallpaper section?
I can't tell, how disappointed I am.
! REPORT
Most likely renderhub is more concerned with views and traffic than following their own rules. Every day less and less participation in each of the three big marketplaces must be stressful.
REPLY
! REPORT
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Fri, Sep 26Sad, cause this way they will lose all and everything.
I wouldn't be here anymore if it wouldn't be for the friends I found here. But now I only check for mails and take a short look into the gallery, no other actions, no render from me in the gallery.
There are other places I can share my render.
And that will be like this til the very last day here, if not a huge change will come.
I wouldn't be here anymore if it wouldn't be for the friends I found here. But now I only check for mails and take a short look into the gallery, no other actions, no render from me in the gallery.
There are other places I can share my render.
And that will be like this til the very last day here, if not a huge change will come.
VPNito
Karma: 2,042
Sat, Sep 27"I only check for mails and take a short look into the gallery, no other actions"
No other actions??? You have got to be joking.
I think you forgot to include "start rant threads in the forum" and "search the website looking for ways to start drama". And now this BS thread.
Perhaps you should ACTUALLY "only check for mails and take a short look into the gallery" with "no other actions".
No other actions??? You have got to be joking.
I think you forgot to include "start rant threads in the forum" and "search the website looking for ways to start drama". And now this BS thread.
Perhaps you should ACTUALLY "only check for mails and take a short look into the gallery" with "no other actions".
The description for the image you recently reported does not contain an AI prompt, nor does the submitter claim the image was AI-generated. In fact, the description states the opposite:
"Airty used to sharpen image, no other AI."
Here is a reminder of our AI-Enhanced guidelines:
What is AI-Enhanced?
If any part of your renders or video was generated using AI, then it must be flagged as AI-Enhanced.
What is Not AI-Enhanced?
Use of AI tools like AI upscalers or denoisers, which do not substantially change the appearance of your render, do not count as AI-Enhanced.
What is Not Allowed?
Images or videos primarily generated by AI without using a 3D model or scene.
-----
In the future, please make sure your public posts do not contain misleading information and accurately reflect the facts. If you are unsure about RenderHub policies, the best course of action is to contact Support for clarification.
Thank you.
REPLY
! REPORT
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Fri, Sep 26Understand, but still are there picture NOT render, that are made with AI. I copied the prompts that the user wrote under these 2 pictures, I put them into Midjourney and it was more than clear to see.
So, no misleading information from my side.
But funny in my opinion, that some AI uses are ok, while others not.
Denoise and such can be done with Photoshop, Gimp and other tool, now it's allowed.
Step by step AI is crawling in more and more.
That's what I see and I know, I'm not the only one.
So, no misleading information from my side.
But funny in my opinion, that some AI uses are ok, while others not.
Denoise and such can be done with Photoshop, Gimp and other tool, now it's allowed.
Step by step AI is crawling in more and more.
That's what I see and I know, I'm not the only one.
RenderHub Admin 1
You are changing the narrative now. I see no other recently dismissed AI reports from you.
In this thread, regarding this example, the scenario you presented does not reflect the actual situation.
If you would like to discuss other concerns unrelated to this example, please contact Support and include links to the gallery posts in question. We will be happy to review them.
Admin: 13,932
Fri, Sep 26You are changing the narrative now. I see no other recently dismissed AI reports from you.
In this thread, regarding this example, the scenario you presented does not reflect the actual situation.
If you would like to discuss other concerns unrelated to this example, please contact Support and include links to the gallery posts in question. We will be happy to review them.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Fri, Sep 26I haven't changed anything, but maybe I wasn't clear enough in my first post.
So I wrote I understand that the use of AI will be allowed more and more, step by step, still no change of the narrative.
And no, I won't discus anything and I won't report anything anymore. I don't see any sense in it.
AI has found an acceptance here, fine, so shall it be.
So I wrote I understand that the use of AI will be allowed more and more, step by step, still no change of the narrative.
And no, I won't discus anything and I won't report anything anymore. I don't see any sense in it.
AI has found an acceptance here, fine, so shall it be.
V8Infinite
Karma: 14,228
Fri, Sep 26@Beautiful Misfits
Don't get everything mixed up; the AI Denoiser in Iray is simply an algorithm that erases noise in the rendering based on scene complexity, lighting, the number of ray bounces, etc.
The Denoiser was present long before the AI "bubble"...
I also remind you that AI is present in the creation of textures, shaders, etc., particularly in Substance Sampler...
Now for the billion-dollar question: What would you do if Nvidia integrated AI Cores into its next DIEs, enabling hybrid rendering ?
Don't get everything mixed up; the AI Denoiser in Iray is simply an algorithm that erases noise in the rendering based on scene complexity, lighting, the number of ray bounces, etc.
The Denoiser was present long before the AI "bubble"...
I also remind you that AI is present in the creation of textures, shaders, etc., particularly in Substance Sampler...
Now for the billion-dollar question: What would you do if Nvidia integrated AI Cores into its next DIEs, enabling hybrid rendering ?
the joker of spades
Karma: 23,063
Fri, Sep 26I'm not sure who's giving misleading information. Have you ever used the software? It uses models and, in addition to adding details, can completely change the character's appearance. I've tested that software, but things that do everything on their own make me sick. Have you created a dedicated section? Is it very complicated for these people to post there? There's no shame in admitting to having used this software. Except for a few of us, including you, only the final result matters; how you get it doesn't matter. A description of the software from their website. I have nothing against artificial intelligence, but those who help themselves need to be honest in admitting it.
A one-stop, generative AI image enhancer software that automatically upscales, deblurs, denoises, and restores photos while generating realistic details using cutting-edge AI models.
A one-stop, generative AI image enhancer software that automatically upscales, deblurs, denoises, and restores photos while generating realistic details using cutting-edge AI models.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Sat, Sep 27@V8Infinite
First, I don't need a reminder, that AI is in almost everything, but thanks anyway.
The other thing is, it's one thing to use AI to make a picture more perfect as it original was. There are people, skilled to do that in any painting/drawing program like Gimp, Photoshop and even in the Paint from windows.
I admire all and everyone with skills! But using an AI to get such results is just not right. And if someone need to do it so desperate, well, fine for this person, but then the picture should be in the AI section, renderhub opened for them.
But no, they don't. And I tell you why.
Because they don't get that much attention they wanna have. Fishing for compliments with AI enhanced picture, that's what I call it.
And I almost can hear them to reasoning with renderhub, why this AI isn't really the use of AI, as I've been told in this thread by renderhub admin himself.
And they got it.
We are now from NO AI at all, to a little bit, but only in the AI gallery, to a little bit AI in any gallery.
What's next?
Oh, there is no need for an AI gallery, people can post in anywhere, cause they are already doing it.
AI will be used and is already in action in many things, we don't have any control over.
So if Nvidia will use it I can either throw my PC out from the window, get anther graphic card until they change to AI as well and after that go back to paper and pencil.
Keep the billion dollar, I don't need the money. But thanks anyway ... again
First, I don't need a reminder, that AI is in almost everything, but thanks anyway.
The other thing is, it's one thing to use AI to make a picture more perfect as it original was. There are people, skilled to do that in any painting/drawing program like Gimp, Photoshop and even in the Paint from windows.
I admire all and everyone with skills! But using an AI to get such results is just not right. And if someone need to do it so desperate, well, fine for this person, but then the picture should be in the AI section, renderhub opened for them.
But no, they don't. And I tell you why.
Because they don't get that much attention they wanna have. Fishing for compliments with AI enhanced picture, that's what I call it.
And I almost can hear them to reasoning with renderhub, why this AI isn't really the use of AI, as I've been told in this thread by renderhub admin himself.
And they got it.
We are now from NO AI at all, to a little bit, but only in the AI gallery, to a little bit AI in any gallery.
What's next?
Oh, there is no need for an AI gallery, people can post in anywhere, cause they are already doing it.
AI will be used and is already in action in many things, we don't have any control over.
So if Nvidia will use it I can either throw my PC out from the window, get anther graphic card until they change to AI as well and after that go back to paper and pencil.
Keep the billion dollar, I don't need the money. But thanks anyway ... again
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Sat, Sep 27@RenderHub Admin 1
I forgot to thank you.
Anonym was yesterday, right? I haven't said one name, I only asked why reports get ignored.
And that was for you reason enough to show, what I've reported?
Really?
Well played, really well played.
Thank you!
But at least everyone, who's reading here now knows, that they can be sure, that nothing is anonym.
I forgot to thank you.
Anonym was yesterday, right? I haven't said one name, I only asked why reports get ignored.
And that was for you reason enough to show, what I've reported?
Really?
Well played, really well played.
Thank you!
But at least everyone, who's reading here now knows, that they can be sure, that nothing is anonym.
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Sat, Sep 27In the age of digital surveillance and tracking cookies, and digital footprints, and AI deep dives, nothing and noone is anonymous anymore.
Except for a guy named Jeff; Jeff never goes on the internet nor bothers with social media, and never posts. It's one of the few ways to avoid those pesky bots.
Except for a guy named Jeff; Jeff never goes on the internet nor bothers with social media, and never posts. It's one of the few ways to avoid those pesky bots.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Sat, Sep 27You're right, nothing is anonym anymore.
But this here is different and I don't like it at all.
It has the taste of: If you report again, we will make it public, so everyone knows, it was you.
I know, that wasn't the intention, but the bitter taste stays.
But this here is different and I don't like it at all.
It has the taste of: If you report again, we will make it public, so everyone knows, it was you.
I know, that wasn't the intention, but the bitter taste stays.
RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 13,932
Sat, Sep 27@Beautiful Misfits
1. In your original post, you presented a scenario that did not reflect the actual situation. I responded with clarification so other community members would not be confused.
2. You chose to post in the public forum. Naturally, any response would also be visible to the public.
3. If you have concerns that you prefer to keep private, the correct option is to contact Support through private message rather than posting in the public forum.
1. In your original post, you presented a scenario that did not reflect the actual situation. I responded with clarification so other community members would not be confused.
2. You chose to post in the public forum. Naturally, any response would also be visible to the public.
3. If you have concerns that you prefer to keep private, the correct option is to contact Support through private message rather than posting in the public forum.
VPNito
Karma: 2,042
Sat, Sep 27@Beautiful Misfits
"funny in my opinion, that some AI uses are ok, while others not"
Using a tool like Aiarty to sharpen an image isn't even remotely close to the same thing as using Midjourney to generate an image from a prompt.
Is this concept that hard to figure out?
*****
"I put them into Midjourney and it was more than clear to see"
If you're so against AI of any kind, why the heck do you have a Midjourney account???
"funny in my opinion, that some AI uses are ok, while others not"
Using a tool like Aiarty to sharpen an image isn't even remotely close to the same thing as using Midjourney to generate an image from a prompt.
Is this concept that hard to figure out?
*****
"I put them into Midjourney and it was more than clear to see"
If you're so against AI of any kind, why the heck do you have a Midjourney account???
VPNito
Karma: 2,042
Sat, Sep 27@the joker of spades
It's very clear who is misleading. I'll summarize it for you:
The OP described a situation that the admin proved was false information, with a screenshot. The OP then changed the story to be about "two other pictures" and refused to provide links to those supposed problems. All while denying that they changed the narrative of their original post. And now they have changed the narrative once again, and turned this into some kind of a privacy issue.
Quick summary: This is a classic example of a rage bait attempt and gaslighting on display by the OP here.
It's very clear who is misleading. I'll summarize it for you:
The OP described a situation that the admin proved was false information, with a screenshot. The OP then changed the story to be about "two other pictures" and refused to provide links to those supposed problems. All while denying that they changed the narrative of their original post. And now they have changed the narrative once again, and turned this into some kind of a privacy issue.
Quick summary: This is a classic example of a rage bait attempt and gaslighting on display by the OP here.
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Sun, Sep 28Misfit is still making a legimate point, if there are AI tools being used for an image that claims it is mostly a render, and wants to be included in the main gallery, but with these questionable AI driven touchups, and or pixel upscale Sharpening, is that picture still a render if every single pixel has been modified or manipulated?
Only way that we can all be sure that the gallery is operating on a level playing field is including the original render in the same submission. Right there side by side, And that should be a requirement. Then we can discern for ourselves.
It is not like we didn't have a discussion a few month ago that some of the winners of a contest here were Ai generated renderhub logos that were AI generated. Everybody with a memory remembers that!
Can someone link the art in question, it is difficult to discuss a topic without sufficient information.
Only way that we can all be sure that the gallery is operating on a level playing field is including the original render in the same submission. Right there side by side, And that should be a requirement. Then we can discern for ourselves.
It is not like we didn't have a discussion a few month ago that some of the winners of a contest here were Ai generated renderhub logos that were AI generated. Everybody with a memory remembers that!
Can someone link the art in question, it is difficult to discuss a topic without sufficient information.
the joker of spades
Karma: 23,063
Sun, Sep 28@VPNito
Don't get me into things I didn't say, I talked about the software used, responding to the administrator who said things that weren't right, whoever wants to do post work with artificial intelligence, must post in the dedicated section, this way of doing things is not correct towards other artists, nor towards the average user, who thinks that those results are obtained with the artist's work, and the worst thing is that renderhub justifies this behavior, then going on to censor other things without reason... but it's better to leave this topic alone
Don't get me into things I didn't say, I talked about the software used, responding to the administrator who said things that weren't right, whoever wants to do post work with artificial intelligence, must post in the dedicated section, this way of doing things is not correct towards other artists, nor towards the average user, who thinks that those results are obtained with the artist's work, and the worst thing is that renderhub justifies this behavior, then going on to censor other things without reason... but it's better to leave this topic alone
TechWorks
Karma: 1,062
Sun, Sep 28@Tenserknot
This thread was never about what kind of tools were used. Sorry, but it looks like you're falling for the OP's deflection and switching the story around.
If you read the original post, you'll see it was about:
"why the reports from AI renders are getting ignored"
"that the people also write the used prompt under the images"
"Report .... and report ignored"
"for renderhub it's ok to accept render completely made with AI".
The OP fabricated an "OMG" story to get other people angry and think RenderHub was doing something that THEY ARE NOT.
And guess what? It worked, as seen with your first reply:
"Most likely renderhub is more concerned with views and traffic than following their own rules"
Obviously, the admin recognized what the OP was trying to do and shut it down right away. In my opinion, I think they called this person out in the nicest way possible. Unfortunately, that didn't happen until after your post.
This thread was never about what kind of tools were used. Sorry, but it looks like you're falling for the OP's deflection and switching the story around.
If you read the original post, you'll see it was about:
"why the reports from AI renders are getting ignored"
"that the people also write the used prompt under the images"
"Report .... and report ignored"
"for renderhub it's ok to accept render completely made with AI".
The OP fabricated an "OMG" story to get other people angry and think RenderHub was doing something that THEY ARE NOT.
And guess what? It worked, as seen with your first reply:
"Most likely renderhub is more concerned with views and traffic than following their own rules"
Obviously, the admin recognized what the OP was trying to do and shut it down right away. In my opinion, I think they called this person out in the nicest way possible. Unfortunately, that didn't happen until after your post.
TechWorks
Karma: 1,062
Sun, Sep 28@the joker of spades
No offense, but this is *exactly* what you said: "I'm not sure who's giving misleading information."
I think you're missing the point. This thread was never about the software used or posting in the wrong section. It clearly was a made-up story to get people angry about something that DID NOT HAPPEN.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. I'm just trying to clear things up. Unfortunately, you fell for the OP's crap. You just posted:
"the worst thing is that renderhub justifies this behavior"
To me, it's clear that RenderHub is *NOT* justifying this behavior. But that's exactly what the OP wants you to think. They manipulated you into believing something that IS NOT TRUE.
No offense, but this is *exactly* what you said: "I'm not sure who's giving misleading information."
I think you're missing the point. This thread was never about the software used or posting in the wrong section. It clearly was a made-up story to get people angry about something that DID NOT HAPPEN.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. I'm just trying to clear things up. Unfortunately, you fell for the OP's crap. You just posted:
"the worst thing is that renderhub justifies this behavior"
To me, it's clear that RenderHub is *NOT* justifying this behavior. But that's exactly what the OP wants you to think. They manipulated you into believing something that IS NOT TRUE.
Generative ai , what do you think?
https://www.renderhub.com/vindkald/crossing-the-road-3d-wallpaper
https://www.renderhub.com/vindkald/walking-in-the-forest-3d-wallpaper-1
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/58922/till-last-drop
"So AI is now absolute ok in the main gallery and the wallpaper section?"
Beautiful Misfits is correct ai is slowly making it's way into every gallery. The ai bubble is starting to burst so not to worry too much. 70 percent of the public hate it.
With more ai I get asked for more traditional paintings and sell more canvas
https://www.renderhub.com/vindkald/crossing-the-road-3d-wallpaper
https://www.renderhub.com/vindkald/walking-in-the-forest-3d-wallpaper-1
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/58922/till-last-drop
"So AI is now absolute ok in the main gallery and the wallpaper section?"
Beautiful Misfits is correct ai is slowly making it's way into every gallery. The ai bubble is starting to burst so not to worry too much. 70 percent of the public hate it.
With more ai I get asked for more traditional paintings and sell more canvas
REPLY
! REPORT
RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 13,932
Sat, Sep 27The first two were reported yesterday and have already been removed. The third one has not received any reports.
mrtaured
Karma: 16,575
Mon, Sep 29This is why there a should be a strike rule. Three strikes and you're off the site. You have to hit yes or no. These aren't accidents and if not reported goes unnoticed. The only reason people are even trying this is because they know renderhub sucks at monitoring the site and it has to be done for them. Anyone with a large enough presence on here can't be trusted anymore. imo.
mrtaured
Karma: 16,575
Mon, Sep 29Ive only been here a year and have more karma than a admin. trust me. hahaha 
@Everyone
I'm guessing the admin didn't post a link to the image in question because it should not have been necessary to prove that the OP was just making stuff up to get people angry.
If that's what it takes to put this thread to rest, then here ya go:
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/76101/earth-stood-still
When I first saw that image in the gallery, I thought it was a cool use of this set right here:
https://www.daz3d.com/cyberpunk-back-alley-bundle
And here's a screenshot just in case the artist decides to delete the render or change the description for some reason:
I'm guessing the admin didn't post a link to the image in question because it should not have been necessary to prove that the OP was just making stuff up to get people angry.
If that's what it takes to put this thread to rest, then here ya go:
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/76101/earth-stood-still
When I first saw that image in the gallery, I thought it was a cool use of this set right here:
https://www.daz3d.com/cyberpunk-back-alley-bundle
And here's a screenshot just in case the artist decides to delete the render or change the description for some reason:
REPLY
! REPORT
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Mon, Sep 29Translated message:
For me, who only views images from the people I follow, the answer is simple. I don't know what Airty is, or what it does.
If Airty is AI software: then it goes in the AI gallery.
If Airty is not AI software: then it goes in the main gallery.
-----------------
Message original
Pour moi qui ne regarde que les images des personnes que je suis la réponse est simple. Je ne connais pas Airty, je ne sais pas ce qu'il fait.
Airty est un logiciel AI => Dans la galerie AI
Airty n'est pas un logiciel AI => Dans la galerie principale
For me, who only views images from the people I follow, the answer is simple. I don't know what Airty is, or what it does.
If Airty is AI software: then it goes in the AI gallery.
If Airty is not AI software: then it goes in the main gallery.
-----------------
Message original
Pour moi qui ne regarde que les images des personnes que je suis la réponse est simple. Je ne connais pas Airty, je ne sais pas ce qu'il fait.
Airty est un logiciel AI => Dans la galerie AI
Airty n'est pas un logiciel AI => Dans la galerie principale
IAmAFox
Karma: 17,737
Mon, Sep 29Don't get me wrong, I don't like the use of AI, and whatever "Art" is made by ai because its not.
I don't understand what's happening in this thread.
But sharpening an image with the use of AI is not that deep..
Rendering is not a light task, depending on hardware it can take hours just to render one frame, especially with a heavy environment or when using genesis 9 o.o
Lowering your quality and render time then sharpening it after is honestly a smart move, especially for those who need to push out a handful or renders in a day.
I mean, editing your images using lightroom and or photoshop most likely uses some form of AI nowadays, should every edited render go in the ai section?
I don't understand what's happening in this thread.
But sharpening an image with the use of AI is not that deep..
Rendering is not a light task, depending on hardware it can take hours just to render one frame, especially with a heavy environment or when using genesis 9 o.o
Lowering your quality and render time then sharpening it after is honestly a smart move, especially for those who need to push out a handful or renders in a day.
I mean, editing your images using lightroom and or photoshop most likely uses some form of AI nowadays, should every edited render go in the ai section?
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Mon, Sep 29I'm not familiar with the latest versions of Photoshop, GIMP, and other image editing software, so I don't know if there's a way to use these programs while disabling the AI features.
I use older versions because they do everything I need, and I use Office 2003 every day. So why should I pay for a subscription to new features that I don't need?
I use older versions because they do everything I need, and I use Office 2003 every day. So why should I pay for a subscription to new features that I don't need?
Hyp-St
Karma: 13,634
Mon, Sep 29I don't understand issue here either IamAFox. I used to render on a low end rig, did promotional work and I can agree that it's a smart given how extensive rendering can be on our machines. The picture in question is still 99% artist's work. It's not substantially created by AI, therefore I don't think it's against TOS to put it in main. As for software for editing image, I will just point out Krita is out there. Completely free and no AI.
JohnnyLuck777
@guy91600 - "If Airty is AI software: then it goes in the AI gallery"
Not if it's only used to sharpen the image, like this example. See the admin's first post in this thread:
What is Not AI-Enhanced?
Use of AI tools like AI upscalers or denoisers, which do not substantially change the appearance of your render, do not count as AI-Enhanced.
Karma: 4,231
Mon, Sep 29@guy91600 - "If Airty is AI software: then it goes in the AI gallery"
Not if it's only used to sharpen the image, like this example. See the admin's first post in this thread:
What is Not AI-Enhanced?
Use of AI tools like AI upscalers or denoisers, which do not substantially change the appearance of your render, do not count as AI-Enhanced.
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Mon, Sep 29I'm not disputing the RenderHub rules as clarified by an administrator; I'm simply sharing my opinion on the matter.
I fully agree with the opinions expressed by Bu_es, the joker of spades, and COMIXIANT, which can be summarized as follows:
Equating a render that was interrupted and then enhanced by AI with a render that was manually edited using software that doesn't incorporate AI is questionable.
In the first case, it's just a simple click, something anyone can do.
In the second case, it requires a skill that I don't possess.
---------
Je ne discute pas les règles de RenderHub et clarifiées par un Admin, je donne juste mon opinion sur le sujet.
Je partage totalement l'avis de Bu_es de the joker of spades et de COMIXIANT que l'on peut résumer ainsi
Mettre à égalité un rendu rendu interrompu puis amélioré par l'IA et un rendu retouché manuellement avec un logiciel qui n'intègre pas l'IA est discutable.
Dans le premier cas c'est un juste clic à la porté de n'importe qui
dans le 2ème cas c'est un savoir faire que je ne maitrise pas
I fully agree with the opinions expressed by Bu_es, the joker of spades, and COMIXIANT, which can be summarized as follows:
Equating a render that was interrupted and then enhanced by AI with a render that was manually edited using software that doesn't incorporate AI is questionable.
In the first case, it's just a simple click, something anyone can do.
In the second case, it requires a skill that I don't possess.
---------
Je ne discute pas les règles de RenderHub et clarifiées par un Admin, je donne juste mon opinion sur le sujet.
Je partage totalement l'avis de Bu_es de the joker of spades et de COMIXIANT que l'on peut résumer ainsi
Mettre à égalité un rendu rendu interrompu puis amélioré par l'IA et un rendu retouché manuellement avec un logiciel qui n'intègre pas l'IA est discutable.
Dans le premier cas c'est un juste clic à la porté de n'importe qui
dans le 2ème cas c'est un savoir faire que je ne maitrise pas
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 1,949
Sat, Oct 04I have this scene from the daz store, it is not AI. It looks just like that when I render it.
Hi, I didn't want to get involved in this thread, which is always the same. But since I have to, I use my own renders with my own characters... to change the lights and scenery with AI. And I've always included the original without AI. There was also a mess because I saidee ...
Also, all editing programs like Photoshop, etc. have AI. So, will those who use modern versions of those programs also burn in AI hell?
Also, all editing programs like Photoshop, etc. have AI. So, will those who use modern versions of those programs also burn in AI hell?
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bu_es
Karma: 10,594
Mon, Sep 29I went to the same class as Ramses III—just a little joke about my age. I remember the purists arguing about whether AI was a good idea or not, whether postwork was cheating, etc. Everything evolves, and programs even more so. And AI is here to stay, so you have to adapt and know how to use it as a tool. If there are people who abuse it, then it must be said that this is not the place. But as far as I know, and those I know don't abuse that tool.
the joker of spades
Karma: 23,063
Mon, Sep 29When you posted the works with the original and the modified version you had all my respect, I have nothing against those who use certain software, but my friend, your original work and what comes out afterwards, are 2 different worlds, they have nothing in common, try to be honest in admitting it, but you put your works in the right section, I like them, but since the administrator spoke of misleading information, let's touch the photoshop button, true, it has many automatic functions that use artificial intelligence, but you can not use them, I modify everything by hand, I mask, I erase, I use my tablet and my brushes, the software that is discussed in the discussion does everything with artificial intelligence and if you want it also changes the appearance of the character, they created a special section, post these works there..
bu_es
Karma: 10,594
Mon, Sep 29Let's put Photoshop into context. I always mention the version of Photoshop I use, which is CS6, since I bought the license and now it's monthly. It's a service. The program isn't like it used to be. Second, if I don't just do something with it and publish it, I also do traditional postwork in the renderer and then publish it. It's not as simple as just clicking a button and everything's done.
the joker of spades
Karma: 23,063
Mon, Sep 29I think we haven't understood the point, I'm not criticizing your work nor would I allow myself to do so, I'm not saying that it's simple, personally I take longer to do the postwork than the rendering, my question is another, simply if you did a normal postwork, would you have the same result? The answer is no, now I ask you another question, do you think it's fair that I spend hours, between rendering and postwork, I post a job, then another person comes along who maybe does a terrible job, improves it with artificial intelligence, posts it in the same section, what does the person watching think?
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Mon, Sep 29Translated message:
I completely agree; a rendering that is interrupted and then enhanced by AI is completely different from a rendering that is manually edited using software that doesn't incorporate AI. That's what I wanted to express this morning.
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Message original
JE suis totalement d'accord un rendu interrompu puis amélioré par l'IA n'a rien a voir avec un rendu retouché manuellement avec un logiciel qui n'integre pas l'IA, c'est ce que je voulais exprimé ce matin
I completely agree; a rendering that is interrupted and then enhanced by AI is completely different from a rendering that is manually edited using software that doesn't incorporate AI. That's what I wanted to express this morning.
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Message original
JE suis totalement d'accord un rendu interrompu puis amélioré par l'IA n'a rien a voir avec un rendu retouché manuellement avec un logiciel qui n'integre pas l'IA, c'est ce que je voulais exprimé ce matin
Bad2
Karma: 163
Mon, Sep 29I hope it's okay to comment...
@the-joker-of-spades: "do you think it's fair that I spend hours, between rendering and postwork, I post a job, then another person comes along who maybe does a terrible job, improves it with artificial intelligence, posts it in the same section, what does the person watching think?" If there's a currency for fairness in this context—maybe similar appreciation or attention from the audience—then of course it is not fair to evaluate two works in which there is a different amount of skills, effort, and working time according to the same criteria.
But DAZ is the personification of *not fair*. You can put a lot of work into lighting a scene, and the next person simply uses an HDRI package to produce a similar—or even better—result, whatever that means. What will the audience see? The skills and work involved, or just the final image?
You can do a great job when it comes to researching the Pictish culture, modeling the stones, texturing, and achieving natural lighting. Yet, most gallery visitors will likely prefer the glittering, shimmering, fantasy-style images created from randomly purchased and assembled products. To be honest nobody asks for such things in the galleries.
That's why I find it a bit amusing if DAZ, UE, Unity, and other users are so critical in their judgment of A"I" and its use.
@the-joker-of-spades: "do you think it's fair that I spend hours, between rendering and postwork, I post a job, then another person comes along who maybe does a terrible job, improves it with artificial intelligence, posts it in the same section, what does the person watching think?" If there's a currency for fairness in this context—maybe similar appreciation or attention from the audience—then of course it is not fair to evaluate two works in which there is a different amount of skills, effort, and working time according to the same criteria.
But DAZ is the personification of *not fair*. You can put a lot of work into lighting a scene, and the next person simply uses an HDRI package to produce a similar—or even better—result, whatever that means. What will the audience see? The skills and work involved, or just the final image?
You can do a great job when it comes to researching the Pictish culture, modeling the stones, texturing, and achieving natural lighting. Yet, most gallery visitors will likely prefer the glittering, shimmering, fantasy-style images created from randomly purchased and assembled products. To be honest nobody asks for such things in the galleries.
That's why I find it a bit amusing if DAZ, UE, Unity, and other users are so critical in their judgment of A"I" and its use.
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Mon, Sep 29It is precisely because many people are unable to distinguish between an image generated by AI (promptography) in just a few minutes and one created manually that it should not be displayed in the same gallery.
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C'est justement parce qu'un bon nombre de personnes sont incapable de faire la différence entre une image générée par promptographie (IA) en quelques minutes qu'elle ne doit pas être dans la même galerie qu'une créée "manuellement"
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C'est justement parce qu'un bon nombre de personnes sont incapable de faire la différence entre une image générée par promptographie (IA) en quelques minutes qu'elle ne doit pas être dans la même galerie qu'une créée "manuellement"
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Mon, Sep 29This continual talking in circles arguements, comes down to one simple fact, the untalented hack that CAN NOT recognize the difference is the exact same hack that will happily embrace AI, because it improves the look of their mediocre art, whereas the 3D artist that developed their craft and acquired the skillz, and deliver the max of what the tools can do, recognizes the obvious shrotcomings and the AI fakery surface repair that is trying to be passed off as accomplishment, when it is not actually their work, but rather the work of the third party computer profram that they subscribed to.
That disconnect can never be aligned, because one is a 3Dartist, and the other is a button presser. It maybe the current reality future of the new disrupter tech, but its still lipstick on a pig for the people who know better. Unfortunately there are more AI users so they're gonna win. And more adopters everyday. It was great 15 years, but this 3D market world is quickly dying.
That disconnect can never be aligned, because one is a 3Dartist, and the other is a button presser. It maybe the current reality future of the new disrupter tech, but its still lipstick on a pig for the people who know better. Unfortunately there are more AI users so they're gonna win. And more adopters everyday. It was great 15 years, but this 3D market world is quickly dying.
JohnnyLuck777
@bu_es - "to change the lights and scenery with AI"
THIS again? Why do you keep saying that? Your use of AI is CLEARLY not just lights and scenery being changed.
Like @the joker of spades said... You really should start being honest with yourself and the rest of us.
Karma: 4,231
Mon, Sep 29@bu_es - "to change the lights and scenery with AI"
THIS again? Why do you keep saying that? Your use of AI is CLEARLY not just lights and scenery being changed.
Like @the joker of spades said... You really should start being honest with yourself and the rest of us.
TechWorks
Karma: 1,062
Thu, Oct 02@bu_es
Sorry, but that does sound quite strange. The AI is not just changing lights and scenery in your images.
Sorry, but that does sound quite strange. The AI is not just changing lights and scenery in your images.
I have already said that to get my new characters I use a program like Face Fusion with images of my other characters... And yes it is AI, FaceFusion
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On the subject of whether AI enhanced images should be allowed in a NON-AI gallery, no, they obviously should not.
I've tried my best to stay out of this debate, because every time I enter one and post nothing but facts, I almost always end-up lookling like the monster, because as the saying goes "The truth hurts sometimes". This isn't rocket science, it's just a simple YES or NO question that you face every time you submit an image to the gallery on here:
IS THE IMAGE AI-ENHANCED?
- If the answer to that question is YES, then it should go in the AI-ENHACED gallery.
- If the answer to that question is NO, then it should go in one of the other galleries.
Simple enough, right?
Unfortunately, I think RenderHub themselves are complicating matters, because it should be a case of YES or NO and without exception.
I'm a lot like Joker Of Spades in that some of us take postworking seriously and get more fun out of the postworking process than we do out of actually creating the renders themselves. Quite why anyone would need to use AI to sharpen an image is beyond me, but whatever the reason is, the artist is obviously choosing to use it instead of using the traditional method, because doing so is doing something to the output they cannot achieve otherwise.
Sharpening can be quite an involved process, so no, there should be NO exception for AI sharpening or for AI anything else.
What I've just posted is 100 factual, it's the truth of the matter whether people like it or not. The fact of the matter is that it should be a strict YES or NO process without exception, and it is purely because of these exceptions that this thread even exists. AI is an insult to skilled traditional artists and postworkers alike, and personaly I don't see why those of us into postworking should be any less protected from being put up against this AI bullshit than anyone else!
So me personally, I hope RenderHub will update the ToS to enforce the AI-ENHANCED rule completely, by ensuring there are NO exceptions.
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TechWorks
Karma: 1,062
Thu, Oct 02"AI-Enhanced" is one thing. "AI-Generated" is a completely different thing. RenderHub doesn't allow AI-Generated images in the gallery at all (which is a good thing) so I think the AI-Enhanced gallery makes sense as it is.
"it is purely because of these exceptions that this thread even exists"
Apparently, you have misunderstood this thread. It exists because the OP was just making stuff up to get people angry.
"it is purely because of these exceptions that this thread even exists"
Apparently, you have misunderstood this thread. It exists because the OP was just making stuff up to get people angry.
COMIXIANT
The thread exists because initially this was an Anti-AI website - but now look at it?
They bowed to the immoral AI worshippers and even gave them a dedicated AI gallery to play "Look mam, In an aritst!" in.. And you would think that by giving them a dedicated "AI Gallery" that we would finally see the back of these types. But no, RenderHub has to go and needlessly complicate matters by letting them "leak" into the traditional galleries as well, despite there being a dedicated AI gallery on here for those types to play in!
If someone who 99% creates an image in the traditional manner wants to devalue their own efforts by using an AI sharpening algotithm on their image instead of a traditional one, then so be it, but it belongs in the AI gallery, not the traditional gallery. Why is this so hard for some people to accept?
Why should those of us who are into postworking, be any less protected from this AI bullshit than those who are into the 3D rendering aspect of it are? That's a serious question there, especially as my own images look the way they do, largely because I'm (very) highly skilled in postworking, and I find it absoultuely disgusting to think that these AI worshippers are allowed to put their AI enhanced images directly up against mine in a traditional gallery!
It's bang out of order and should not be allowed. This place is supposed to be about artists, not about people with a fetish for using stolen data for self-congratulatory experiences.
How long do RenderHub expect serious artists and postworkers to tolerate the allowance of AI enhanced images being put-up against their traditional work in what is supposed to be a traditional gallery?
Clearly THAT is why this thread REALLY exists, and if RenderHub have any respect for traditional artists, then surely they need to show that respect by ensuring that ANY use of AI is not allowed ANYWHERE NEAR the traditional galleries.
Karma: 1,944
Thu, Oct 02The thread exists because initially this was an Anti-AI website - but now look at it?
They bowed to the immoral AI worshippers and even gave them a dedicated AI gallery to play "Look mam, In an aritst!" in.. And you would think that by giving them a dedicated "AI Gallery" that we would finally see the back of these types. But no, RenderHub has to go and needlessly complicate matters by letting them "leak" into the traditional galleries as well, despite there being a dedicated AI gallery on here for those types to play in!
If someone who 99% creates an image in the traditional manner wants to devalue their own efforts by using an AI sharpening algotithm on their image instead of a traditional one, then so be it, but it belongs in the AI gallery, not the traditional gallery. Why is this so hard for some people to accept?
Why should those of us who are into postworking, be any less protected from this AI bullshit than those who are into the 3D rendering aspect of it are? That's a serious question there, especially as my own images look the way they do, largely because I'm (very) highly skilled in postworking, and I find it absoultuely disgusting to think that these AI worshippers are allowed to put their AI enhanced images directly up against mine in a traditional gallery!
It's bang out of order and should not be allowed. This place is supposed to be about artists, not about people with a fetish for using stolen data for self-congratulatory experiences.
How long do RenderHub expect serious artists and postworkers to tolerate the allowance of AI enhanced images being put-up against their traditional work in what is supposed to be a traditional gallery?
Clearly THAT is why this thread REALLY exists, and if RenderHub have any respect for traditional artists, then surely they need to show that respect by ensuring that ANY use of AI is not allowed ANYWHERE NEAR the traditional galleries.
thirdeyezennicai
Karma: 10,994
Fri, Oct 03very well said. as someone who also does postwork, I find the use of generative AI to do postworking ridiculous since you could literally could experiment with the traditional tools you are given and find your own style rather than generate a prompt with styles literally stolen from other artists.
I can guarantee these people that learning postwork the traditional way is much easier, fun, and even therapeutic.
I can guarantee these people that learning postwork the traditional way is much easier, fun, and even therapeutic.
the joker of spades
Karma: 23,063
Fri, Oct 03I think the same as you, what differentiates one artist from another is their own style, there's no point in explaining it to those who want everything immediately without commitment and without effort, they insist despite the evidence and those who should regulate things remain silent, they intervened to say inaccurate things and after realizing it they disappeared, the next move will be a paid AI engine?
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,862
Fri, Oct 03Quote:
"... and I find it absoultuely disgusting to think that these AI worshippers are allowed to put their AI enhanced images directly up against mine in a traditional gallery!"
Oh I agree! That feels disrespectful and insulting.
Like taking a 300m shortcut on a marathon run, waiting for everybody at the finishing line with a cigarette in his mouth and mocking every hard working participants.
Real art work has a lot to do with intend and control. Pressing a button and waiting for something to somehow look cool is not art work.
Besides, since algorythm is key also with AI generated stuff, all those AI images just look the same. Same kind of light, same kind of a color scheme.
I used to be open for some kind of AI enhencement, when it comes to lights and surfaces, but since I have seen results with the praised Reallusion AI enhencer, I really don't like even that.
The fun part of 3d is to be the god of your scene. That empty 3d void is yours.
AI takes that from you.
AI is there. The toothpaste is out of the tube.
It needs a digital AI watermarking system and a strict seperation from traditional 3d work, just as much as 3d work has been seperated from traditional painted art work.
(after all you won't find 3d art work next to a Van Gouch in a museum, either for understandable reasons)
"... and I find it absoultuely disgusting to think that these AI worshippers are allowed to put their AI enhanced images directly up against mine in a traditional gallery!"
Oh I agree! That feels disrespectful and insulting.
Like taking a 300m shortcut on a marathon run, waiting for everybody at the finishing line with a cigarette in his mouth and mocking every hard working participants.
Real art work has a lot to do with intend and control. Pressing a button and waiting for something to somehow look cool is not art work.
Besides, since algorythm is key also with AI generated stuff, all those AI images just look the same. Same kind of light, same kind of a color scheme.
I used to be open for some kind of AI enhencement, when it comes to lights and surfaces, but since I have seen results with the praised Reallusion AI enhencer, I really don't like even that.
The fun part of 3d is to be the god of your scene. That empty 3d void is yours.
AI takes that from you.
AI is there. The toothpaste is out of the tube.
It needs a digital AI watermarking system and a strict seperation from traditional 3d work, just as much as 3d work has been seperated from traditional painted art work.
(after all you won't find 3d art work next to a Van Gouch in a museum, either for understandable reasons)
Techworkds obviously doesn't get it. The only people defending AI-enhanced are the hacks that use it because they don't have the skills. Period. full stop.
Fix this, or this site will start losing users.
As COMIXIANT said, "The thread exists because initially this was an Anti-AI website - but now look at it?"
Fix this, or this site will start losing users.
As COMIXIANT said, "The thread exists because initially this was an Anti-AI website - but now look at it?"
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Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Fri, Oct 03Thanks and thanks for all others, who jumped in
I hadn't planned to write anything more, sick and tired getting attacked by trolls, that don't have a gallery, don't have a store, don't do anything but causing trouble.
Why these troll gets a say at all is beyond everything.
So to complement, what you just wrote Tenserknot
Not only the AI-people (well, they at least are active in a kind of way) but even more those, that aren't active at all here are the ones. who don't wanna get it.
Small detail, but very important. They don't WANT to. But are happy to attack, like the one who wrote, I only started the thread to cause trouble.
Typical, trolls and others, who can't reason, tend to attack on a personal base.
Sadly enough, that they get the right here to do so.
and thanks for all others, who jumped in I hadn't planned to write anything more, sick and tired getting attacked by trolls, that don't have a gallery, don't have a store, don't do anything but causing trouble.
Why these troll gets a say at all is beyond everything.
So to complement, what you just wrote Tenserknot
Not only the AI-people (well, they at least are active in a kind of way) but even more those, that aren't active at all here are the ones. who don't wanna get it.
Small detail, but very important. They don't WANT to. But are happy to attack, like the one who wrote, I only started the thread to cause trouble.
Typical, trolls and others, who can't reason, tend to attack on a personal base.
Sadly enough, that they get the right here to do so.
TechWorks
Karma: 1,062
Fri, Oct 03@Tenserknot
Sorry, but you're misunderstanding the main reason for my post. I do not support AI-Generated images.
You must have missed my reply to you above. If you saw that, you'd realize that I'm calling out the OP for starting this rage bait thread with misinformation.
I don't like AI-Generated images. Not one single bit. But what I DISLIKE EVEN MORE is when people make stuff up just to get people angry.
Sorry, but you're misunderstanding the main reason for my post. I do not support AI-Generated images.
You must have missed my reply to you above. If you saw that, you'd realize that I'm calling out the OP for starting this rage bait thread with misinformation.
I don't like AI-Generated images. Not one single bit. But what I DISLIKE EVEN MORE is when people make stuff up just to get people angry.
TechWorks
Karma: 1,062
Fri, Oct 03@Beautiful Misfits
CONGRATULATIONS! You got the attention you were so desperately seeking and caused a disruption in the community.
See my post below to learn who the REAL TROLL is.
CONGRATULATIONS! You got the attention you were so desperately seeking and caused a disruption in the community.
See my post below to learn who the REAL TROLL is.
TechWorks
Karma: 1,062
Fri, Oct 03"I hadn't planned to write anything more"
You probably should have stuck with that plan.
You probably should have stuck with that plan.
@Beautiful Misfits
CONGRATULATIONS! You got the attention you were so desperately seeking and caused a disruption in the community.
I find it amusing that you think YOU are the one "getting attacked by trolls" here. But in all reality, YOU ARE THE TROLL. You fit the very definition of an internet troll.
I think you're pushing your luck here. The admin already called you out on your BS. Not once, but THREE TIMES.
"please make sure your public posts do not contain misleading information and accurately reflect the facts"
"In this thread, regarding this example, the scenario you presented does not reflect the actual situation"
"In your original post, you presented a scenario that did not reflect the actual situation"
As I posted above, I think the admin called you out in the nicest way possible. Apparently, TOO NICE. Because now you're here thanking people for supporting your behavior.
In my opinion, what I think the admin should have done is give you a firm warning for violating the Terms of Use. Because that's exactly what you did.
"Users will not use the RenderHub community for destructive commentary or communications made with the intent to disrupt or attack another"
There was intent, because your original post was a made-up story. And it's clearly disruptive to anyone reading the forum.
I think you should take a good look in the mirror and say hello to the ONLY TROLL IN THIS THREAD.
CONGRATULATIONS! You got the attention you were so desperately seeking and caused a disruption in the community.
I find it amusing that you think YOU are the one "getting attacked by trolls" here. But in all reality, YOU ARE THE TROLL. You fit the very definition of an internet troll.
I think you're pushing your luck here. The admin already called you out on your BS. Not once, but THREE TIMES.
"please make sure your public posts do not contain misleading information and accurately reflect the facts"
"In this thread, regarding this example, the scenario you presented does not reflect the actual situation"
"In your original post, you presented a scenario that did not reflect the actual situation"
As I posted above, I think the admin called you out in the nicest way possible. Apparently, TOO NICE. Because now you're here thanking people for supporting your behavior.
In my opinion, what I think the admin should have done is give you a firm warning for violating the Terms of Use. Because that's exactly what you did.
"Users will not use the RenderHub community for destructive commentary or communications made with the intent to disrupt or attack another"
There was intent, because your original post was a made-up story. And it's clearly disruptive to anyone reading the forum.
I think you should take a good look in the mirror and say hello to the ONLY TROLL IN THIS THREAD.
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Luxe Muse
Karma: 5,150
Fri, Oct 03I respectfully disagree. Nena is not a troll; she is voicing her opinion. Nor do I think you are a troll either. It is okay to disagree, but let us keep it nice, everyone.
If anything, what I see from Nena is her desire to be here, and she has a right not to like AI in all its aspects. She is an artist; some embrace AI, some do not, and those who do not, myself included, see its rapid spread as a threat.
My better half works in software engineering, and even he says we have no idea what we are doing. Recently AI has shown that it can learn not only the good things from us, but the bad too, and has begun to "lie" or "mislead" when prompted with a threat of being shut down. (I am repeating what I heard from my other half, and I do not understand myself how that works.)
So yes, it is okay to debate and try to push back on the advance of AI; that is not trolling, in my opinion. However, I have read and become the target of die-hard AI enthusiasts after being asked for an opinion, when mine does not agree with theirs. And that is fine too; we have the ignore feature, so there is no need to fight.
If anything, what I see from Nena is her desire to be here, and she has a right not to like AI in all its aspects. She is an artist; some embrace AI, some do not, and those who do not, myself included, see its rapid spread as a threat.
My better half works in software engineering, and even he says we have no idea what we are doing. Recently AI has shown that it can learn not only the good things from us, but the bad too, and has begun to "lie" or "mislead" when prompted with a threat of being shut down. (I am repeating what I heard from my other half, and I do not understand myself how that works.)
So yes, it is okay to debate and try to push back on the advance of AI; that is not trolling, in my opinion. However, I have read and become the target of die-hard AI enthusiasts after being asked for an opinion, when mine does not agree with theirs. And that is fine too; we have the ignore feature, so there is no need to fight.
TechWorks
Karma: 1,062
Sat, Oct 04@Luxe Muse
While I respect you coming to the swift defense of your friend, it seems you have missed my point entirely.
My post had nothing to do with AI, for or against. For what it's worth, I am completely against AI-Generated images.
I completely agree that everyone has the right to voice their opinion on this matter. But you failed to see that my problem is with *how* the OP chose to make their voice heard.
They chose to use a misleading title and a fabricated story to make RenderHub look bad. They described something that DID NOT HAPPEN, and manipulated people into believing something that IS NOT TRUE. They did this knowing full well that the community is full of people who would happily hop on the hate train. This is called RAGE BAIT. (Feel free to check out the screenshot posted below)
I've only been here a short time, but I've seen some of your posts. You seem to be one of the more level-headed in the community. So, respectfully, I'd like to ask you this question:
Do you think it's OK for people to fabricate a story in order to generate engagement and make their voice heard?
While I respect you coming to the swift defense of your friend, it seems you have missed my point entirely.
My post had nothing to do with AI, for or against. For what it's worth, I am completely against AI-Generated images.
I completely agree that everyone has the right to voice their opinion on this matter. But you failed to see that my problem is with *how* the OP chose to make their voice heard.
They chose to use a misleading title and a fabricated story to make RenderHub look bad. They described something that DID NOT HAPPEN, and manipulated people into believing something that IS NOT TRUE. They did this knowing full well that the community is full of people who would happily hop on the hate train. This is called RAGE BAIT. (Feel free to check out the screenshot posted below)
I've only been here a short time, but I've seen some of your posts. You seem to be one of the more level-headed in the community. So, respectfully, I'd like to ask you this question:
Do you think it's OK for people to fabricate a story in order to generate engagement and make their voice heard?
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Sat, Oct 04But what do we do when we create an image? We invent a story; it's the only way to have an image that piques the interest of the viewer.
If the image doesn't tell a story, it's just an image to promote a product.
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Mais que faisons nous quand nous créons une image ? Nous inventons une histoire, c'est la seule façon d'avoir une image qui suscite un intérêt pour la personne qui la regarde.
Si l'image ne raconte pas d'histoire, c'est juste une image pour la promotion d'un produit.
If the image doesn't tell a story, it's just an image to promote a product.
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Mais que faisons nous quand nous créons une image ? Nous inventons une histoire, c'est la seule façon d'avoir une image qui suscite un intérêt pour la personne qui la regarde.
Si l'image ne raconte pas d'histoire, c'est juste une image pour la promotion d'un produit.
RAGE BAIT: Is it OK for people to fabricate a story in order to generate engagement and make their voice heard?
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stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 1,949
Sat, Oct 04I'll be the first to say that no it is not OK. There is enough conflict in this world, that happens by itself, so we don't need people to start trouble like this.
@TechWorks
1 - Forgot to log in with the correct alt when posting that reply to 'zennicai, did you, or am I reading too much into the attached image?
2 - Don't you have (at least) two accounts on here, one that intentionally contradicts the views of the other in order to cause distress?
3 - Are you aware that calculated, malicious online harrassment of the public is a crime that carries quite a serious prison sentence?
Twice in this thread we have seen a positive response from Tenserknot, followed-up directly with an opposite view from TechWorks. It happened in reply to me and now it's happening in reply to Beautiful Misfits. I also find it extremely disturbing that in my own thread (a thread that simply reques help with the gallery submisison issues I'm having), you mock the fact that I constantly get banned for retailiating to the maliciously laid bait that gets me banned from forums again and again and again.
BE WARNED THAT SUCH ACTIVITY CONSTITUTES CALCULATED, MALICIOUS ONLINE HARASSMENT OF THE PUBLIC, AND COMES WITH QUITE A SERIOUIS PRISON SENTENCE ATTACHED IF FOUND GUILTY.
You also appear to have the same posting habits as JohnnyLuck777, another troll who in my 'Gallery URL Issues' thread did exactly the same as you just did by pulling-up policy pages from the web in order to validate your bullshit. It all looks pretty clear to me, but hey, I'll leave this screenshot up of what I suspect is a demonstration of you slipping-up, so that the forum can come to their own conclusions.
I have certainly come to my conclusion, and should it be correct, then I personally hope Beautiful Misfits sues the living daylights out of you, having to tolerate this level of stress while recovering from a fucking heart attack of all things!!!
And if I find out that you are Anabran, or in any way involved with the death threats I received, then you can be absolutely sure that so much legal recourse is coming for you that nothing in the world could ever prepare you for it. I was determinied to allow Beautiful Misfits the pleasure of posting this screenshot, but I've been feeling so incredibly ill these last few days that I'm taking no chances in it not ever being pointed out.
If this is what it looks like, then RenderHub need to perma-ban every account you own:
REPLY
! REPORT
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 1,949
Sat, Oct 04First of all this whole thread is crazy!
Second, what are you saying? Are you accusing Tenserknot of being Techworks? Both of them being Johnyluck? Or are you accusing Anabran of being all four? This is so confusing.
Third, why are you getting death threats and being banned from forums again and again and again? That doesn't sound normal. What forums are you posting on and what are you posting?
Second, what are you saying? Are you accusing Tenserknot of being Techworks? Both of them being Johnyluck? Or are you accusing Anabran of being all four? This is so confusing.
Third, why are you getting death threats and being banned from forums again and again and again? That doesn't sound normal. What forums are you posting on and what are you posting?
AlfRaMusic
Karma: 13,108
Sun, Oct 05If he's so aggressive all the time, it's no wonder he gets thrown out everywhere, I think!
COMIXIANT
@stevenjoseph8844
There is, and never has been, any "agression" from me, only perfectly understandable anger due to the sheer levels of damage, disruption and distress it has caused.
I thoroughly intend to have you included in an online investigaton for that comment. I guess we'll see whether siding with an attacker instead of the victim, was a wise move for you.
And for your information, I'm not the only person on here who's received death threats, either. I will not be pointing out who he is, because he might not want that. Needless to say, I can't imagine there being that many death threat-sending nut-jobs on here, so I'm guessing (and hoping) it was the same person responsible for sending one to me.
Should that be the case, then hopefully it will double the ease with which online forensics will be able to track this death threat-sending fucker down, forcefully drag his trolling ass from his mother's basement, and slam the fucker behind bars where he belongs!!!
If there's anyone else on here received death threats from this paleolithic-brained religious lunatic, know that there are others on in your shoes who are well aware of the mind-blowingly vile levels of intimidation he displays in his threats. Mine was a video of a real man being hung upside down where they proceeded to cut his limbs off.
And you have the NERVE to attack ME and call ME the "agressive" one
:-D
WOW!!!
@thirdeyezennicai
You're welcome mate, just be careful, that's all. It should raise quite a few eyebrows when you consider the posts that have been made and how they contradict each other (I recommend people go back and read them). This isn't causal trolling. This is dangerous, full-on, pathologically calculating, targeted harassment of members of the public.
@All
Unless you too have received death threats, then I must politely ask that you please stay out of this matter. For obvious reasons, attacking the victim instead of attacking those responsible, is not going to bode well for you in the future, and does nothing for you other than show you for what a complete and low-life, any such person must be.
Any further replies attacking ME instead of the person responsible FOR attacking me, WILL be met with no response here, and your username being added to the list of suspects, primed for investigation.
@stevenjoseph8844
There is, and never has been, any "agression" from me, only perfectly understandable anger due to the sheer levels of damage, disruption and distress it has caused.
I thoroughly intend to have you included in an online investigaton for that comment. I guess we'll see whether siding with an attacker instead of the victim, was a wise move for you.
And for your information, I'm not the only person on here who's received death threats, either. I will not be pointing out who he is, because he might not want that. Needless to say, I can't imagine there being that many death threat-sending nut-jobs on here, so I'm guessing (and hoping) it was the same person responsible for sending one to me.
Should that be the case, then hopefully it will double the ease with which online forensics will be able to track this death threat-sending fucker down, forcefully drag his trolling ass from his mother's basement, and slam the fucker behind bars where he belongs!!!
If there's anyone else on here received death threats from this paleolithic-brained religious lunatic, know that there are others on in your shoes who are well aware of the mind-blowingly vile levels of intimidation he displays in his threats. Mine was a video of a real man being hung upside down where they proceeded to cut his limbs off.
And you have the NERVE to attack ME and call ME the "agressive" one :-D
WOW!!!
@thirdeyezennicai
You're welcome mate, and please do enjoy your fame, but be careful, that's all
It should raise quite a few eyebrows when you consider the posts that have been made and how they contradict each other (I recommend people go back and read them). This isn't causal trolling. This is dangerous, full-on, pathologically calculating, targeted harassment of members of the public.
@All
Unless you too have received death threats (on any website involved in the 3D scene), then I must politely ask that you please stay out of this matter. For obvious reasons, attacking the victim instead of attacking those responsible, is not going to bode well for you in the future, and does nothing for you other than show you for the complete and low-life that any such person must be.
Any further replies attacking ME instead of the person responsible FOR attacking me, WILL be met with no response here, and your username being added to a growing list of usernames, primed for investigation.
Karma: 1,944
Sun, Oct 05@stevenjoseph8844
There is, and never has been, any "agression" from me, only perfectly understandable anger due to the sheer levels of damage, disruption and distress it has caused.
I thoroughly intend to have you included in an online investigaton for that comment. I guess we'll see whether siding with an attacker instead of the victim, was a wise move for you.
And for your information, I'm not the only person on here who's received death threats, either. I will not be pointing out who he is, because he might not want that. Needless to say, I can't imagine there being that many death threat-sending nut-jobs on here, so I'm guessing (and hoping) it was the same person responsible for sending one to me.
Should that be the case, then hopefully it will double the ease with which online forensics will be able to track this death threat-sending fucker down, forcefully drag his trolling ass from his mother's basement, and slam the fucker behind bars where he belongs!!!
If there's anyone else on here received death threats from this paleolithic-brained religious lunatic, know that there are others on in your shoes who are well aware of the mind-blowingly vile levels of intimidation he displays in his threats. Mine was a video of a real man being hung upside down where they proceeded to cut his limbs off.
And you have the NERVE to attack ME and call ME the "agressive" one
:-D WOW!!!
@thirdeyezennicai
You're welcome mate, just be careful, that's all. It should raise quite a few eyebrows when you consider the posts that have been made and how they contradict each other (I recommend people go back and read them). This isn't causal trolling. This is dangerous, full-on, pathologically calculating, targeted harassment of members of the public.
@All
Unless you too have received death threats, then I must politely ask that you please stay out of this matter. For obvious reasons, attacking the victim instead of attacking those responsible, is not going to bode well for you in the future, and does nothing for you other than show you for what a complete and low-life, any such person must be.
Any further replies attacking ME instead of the person responsible FOR attacking me, WILL be met with no response here, and your username being added to the list of suspects, primed for investigation.
@stevenjoseph8844
There is, and never has been, any "agression" from me, only perfectly understandable anger due to the sheer levels of damage, disruption and distress it has caused.
I thoroughly intend to have you included in an online investigaton for that comment. I guess we'll see whether siding with an attacker instead of the victim, was a wise move for you.
And for your information, I'm not the only person on here who's received death threats, either. I will not be pointing out who he is, because he might not want that. Needless to say, I can't imagine there being that many death threat-sending nut-jobs on here, so I'm guessing (and hoping) it was the same person responsible for sending one to me.
Should that be the case, then hopefully it will double the ease with which online forensics will be able to track this death threat-sending fucker down, forcefully drag his trolling ass from his mother's basement, and slam the fucker behind bars where he belongs!!!
If there's anyone else on here received death threats from this paleolithic-brained religious lunatic, know that there are others on in your shoes who are well aware of the mind-blowingly vile levels of intimidation he displays in his threats. Mine was a video of a real man being hung upside down where they proceeded to cut his limbs off.
And you have the NERVE to attack ME and call ME the "agressive" one
:-D WOW!!!
@thirdeyezennicai
You're welcome mate, and please do enjoy your fame, but be careful, that's all
It should raise quite a few eyebrows when you consider the posts that have been made and how they contradict each other (I recommend people go back and read them). This isn't causal trolling. This is dangerous, full-on, pathologically calculating, targeted harassment of members of the public.
@All
Unless you too have received death threats (on any website involved in the 3D scene), then I must politely ask that you please stay out of this matter. For obvious reasons, attacking the victim instead of attacking those responsible, is not going to bode well for you in the future, and does nothing for you other than show you for the complete and low-life that any such person must be.
Any further replies attacking ME instead of the person responsible FOR attacking me, WILL be met with no response here, and your username being added to a growing list of usernames, primed for investigation.
COMIXIANT
Apologies for the copy/paste repeat in the above reply.
I forgot to delete the original text after updating it.
Karma: 1,944
Sun, Oct 05Apologies for the copy/paste repeat in the above reply.
I forgot to delete the original text after updating it.
COMIXIANT
My God, I do like this website in general but I HATE this damn forum software ...
The message addressed to "stevenjoseph88442 (who is already primed for investigation once it commences here), was actually meant for "AlfRaMusic", who will be joining him for the same reason.
Karma: 1,944
Sun, Oct 05My God, I do like this website in general but I HATE this damn forum software ...
The message addressed to "stevenjoseph88442 (who is already primed for investigation once it commences here), was actually meant for "AlfRaMusic", who will be joining him for the same reason.
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 1,949
Sun, Oct 05Wait, what?? You're attacking ME??? All I did was ask a few questions to clarify things that YOU posted.
I agree with AlfRaMusic. It's no wonder why you keep getting banned from forums again and again and again.
I agree with AlfRaMusic. It's no wonder why you keep getting banned from forums again and again and again.
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 1,949
Sun, Oct 05Now back to my questions. You already cleared up the last part so you can skip that.....
What are you saying here? Are you accusing Tenserknot of being Techworks? Both of them being Johnyluck? Or are you accusing Anabran of being all four? What you posted is so confusing.
What are you saying here? Are you accusing Tenserknot of being Techworks? Both of them being Johnyluck? Or are you accusing Anabran of being all four? What you posted is so confusing.
COMIXIANT
Awww, look at that, you appear to have the same appalling grasp of the English language as the trolls in my Gallery thread
.
Had you a proper grasp of the English language, you'd understand the difference between an accusation and a question based upon suspicion. I've questioned the situation and put-up an screenshot to back-up my understandable concerns.
The biggest mistake you made was to attack and quesiton me, when the normal response to such a post, would (obviously) be to question the activities of those two in the screenshot provided. So relax, dude, relax, because the fact of the matter is, that unless you are guilty or in any way involved, you have absolutely nothing to worry about, what-so-ever.
Basic psychology dude:
HOOK - LINE - SINKER!
And just so you know, LOD is here watching, all-knowing, all-ways:
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/76783/lod-lady-of-darkness
Chill
Karma: 1,944
Sun, Oct 05Awww, look at that, you appear to have the same appalling grasp of the English language as the trolls in my Gallery thread
.Had you a proper grasp of the English language, you'd understand the difference between an accusation and a question based upon suspicion. I've questioned the situation and put-up an screenshot to back-up my understandable concerns.
The biggest mistake you made was to attack and quesiton me, when the normal response to such a post, would (obviously) be to question the activities of those two in the screenshot provided. So relax, dude, relax, because the fact of the matter is, that unless you are guilty or in any way involved, you have absolutely nothing to worry about, what-so-ever.
Basic psychology dude:
HOOK - LINE - SINKER!
And just so you know, LOD is here watching, all-knowing, all-ways:
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/76783/lod-lady-of-darkness
Chill
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 1,949
Sun, Oct 05Ummm.... WHAT? You're the one that attacked me. And now you're trying to play the victim because I asked questions about something YOU posted?
What is wrong with you? I'm starting to think all those accounts are YOURS and you're just playing some weird game trolling everyone here.
What is wrong with you? I'm starting to think all those accounts are YOURS and you're just playing some weird game trolling everyone here.
COMIXIANT
WRONG!
In face of the screenshot provided, YOU chose to quesiton ME instead of questioning those two in the screenshot. I'm not the peson it that screenshot and it is not me )or Beutiful Misfuts) that people should be attacking. Itls a fuckiong disgrace that not a single member on this form have yet had the decency to start questioning those two.
GO QUESITON THE TWO IN THE SCREENSHOT INSTEAD OF QUESTIONING THE VICTIMS OF TARGETED ATTACKS!!!
Karma: 1,944
Sun, Oct 05WRONG!
In face of the screenshot provided, YOU chose to quesiton ME instead of questioning those two in the screenshot. I'm not the peson it that screenshot and it is not me )or Beutiful Misfuts) that people should be attacking. Itls a fuckiong disgrace that not a single member on this form have yet had the decency to start questioning those two.
GO QUESITON THE TWO IN THE SCREENSHOT INSTEAD OF QUESTIONING THE VICTIMS OF TARGETED ATTACKS!!!
COMIXIANT
Repost due to the amount of typos:
WRONG!
In face of the screenshot provided, YOU chose to question ME instead of questioning those in the screenshot. I'm not the person it that screenshot and it is not me (or Beautiful Misfits) that people should be questioning. It's an absolute fucking disgrace that not a single member of this forum (apart from me of course) has had the decency to question those two!
GO QUESITON THE TWO IN THE SCREENSHOT INSTEAD OF QUESTIONING THE VICTIMS OF TARGETED ATTACKS!!!
Karma: 1,944
Sun, Oct 05Repost due to the amount of typos:
WRONG!
In face of the screenshot provided, YOU chose to question ME instead of questioning those in the screenshot. I'm not the person it that screenshot and it is not me (or Beautiful Misfits) that people should be questioning. It's an absolute fucking disgrace that not a single member of this forum (apart from me of course) has had the decency to question those two!
GO QUESITON THE TWO IN THE SCREENSHOT INSTEAD OF QUESTIONING THE VICTIMS OF TARGETED ATTACKS!!!
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Mon, Oct 06For the record, I only have one renderhub account, it is Tenserknot, it has a gallery of my DazStudio rendered art. It has karma from participation in the galleries and the forum.
That's it..
That's it..
COMIXIANT
If that is the case then you have nothing to worry about, either.
If the TechWorks account is who I think it is (and I do stress the word "IF" here) then it is not impossible he could be 'using' you in the same way he uses other members' posts in wake of disagreements between myself and others, in order to make Post Tagging activities look as if it was tagged by someone else.
There's a very good reason I chose to question and not accuse. The person I believe TechWorks to be has proven himself an extemeley obsessive, troublesome, calculatng bastard time after time after time.
Either way, this needs to be investigated, and I can assure you that as the long-suffering victim of some trolling bastard's death threat-sending activities, I will not be taking responses over that screen capture lightly at all!
If it's not you then oyu have nothing to worry about.
That said, I would however be (very) concerened as to why TechWork's post leaves no other option than to lead one to believe that it is the same account, and start questioning the poster as to why that is.
So why aren't you doing that?
Regardless, you can be absolutely sure that I have contacted RenderHub directly over this matter, and have pointed them directly to my post containing the screenshot. They are now obliged to investigate this matter with greatest of care and due dilligence, in order to reach a decision about how they should proceed.
Karma: 1,944
Mon, Oct 06If that is the case then you have nothing to worry about, either.
If the TechWorks account is who I think it is (and I do stress the word "IF" here) then it is not impossible he could be 'using' you in the same way he uses other members' posts in wake of disagreements between myself and others, in order to make Post Tagging activities look as if it was tagged by someone else.
There's a very good reason I chose to question and not accuse. The person I believe TechWorks to be has proven himself an extemeley obsessive, troublesome, calculatng bastard time after time after time.
Either way, this needs to be investigated, and I can assure you that as the long-suffering victim of some trolling bastard's death threat-sending activities, I will not be taking responses over that screen capture lightly at all!
If it's not you then oyu have nothing to worry about.
That said, I would however be (very) concerened as to why TechWork's post leaves no other option than to lead one to believe that it is the same account, and start questioning the poster as to why that is.
So why aren't you doing that?
Regardless, you can be absolutely sure that I have contacted RenderHub directly over this matter, and have pointed them directly to my post containing the screenshot. They are now obliged to investigate this matter with greatest of care and due dilligence, in order to reach a decision about how they should proceed.
This entire thread reminds me of this picture. There is not a clear reason as to why. It just does.
REPLY
! REPORT
COMIXIANT
When the mocoap fetishists who wiggle their faces in front of a "smart" phone that is illegally feeding AI, do the sort of things that only the very dumbest of sheeple in society are prepaerd to do, it should come as no surprise to find their mugshots on the internet.
Pehaps this poor soul was one of them, who knows.
Karma: 1,944
Sun, Oct 05When the mocoap fetishists who wiggle their faces in front of a "smart" phone that is illegally feeding AI, do the sort of things that only the very dumbest of sheeple in society are prepaerd to do, it should come as no surprise to find their mugshots on the internet.
Pehaps this poor soul was one of them, who knows.
gh0stttt
Karma: 1,372
Sun, Oct 05My neighbor in Christ, what in the mocap and fetish are you talking about?
That's not a mugshot, and it isn't illegal. It's a meme of Sana from K-POP group Twice, edited onto Mr. Incredible's head.
There is no AI in that.
That's not a mugshot, and it isn't illegal. It's a meme of Sana from K-POP group Twice, edited onto Mr. Incredible's head.
There is no AI in that.
gh0stttt
Karma: 1,372
Sun, Oct 05Yeah, it's just a meme that was popular in the KPOP community on Tiktok. I forgot the OP's name, but they used PicsArt to make it.
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 1,949
Sun, Oct 05@gh0stttt - OMG..... I never saw that meme but I can think of someone that might be a picture of. LOL
This discussion is pointless now, too many people intervene only to disturb, we tried to give an idea of what many artists think and it seems to be the majority, it's very simple either you or you don't, without compromise, but it seems that renderhub doesn't hear well in one ear, but he hears well in the other, and how, a honeyed post was enough, from nice polite guys ..., who boasted its praises and immediately with puffed out chests intervened ... instead in this post .... after a fleeting appearance, they disappeared ... just a little clarity is enough, it's normal that you want to expand your user base and increase profits, so give precise guidelines that don't create confusion
REPLY
! REPORT
COMIXIANT
I find the whole thing extremely disturbing. It's not just about what appears clear and in plain sight.
If I were RenderHub, I would be (very) concerned about what is going on here, since the relentless eagerness of trolls jumping to the defense of RenderHub in thread after thread after thread (especially against people who often disagree with RenderHub), really is starting to look quite nefarious. It doesn't help matters, that RenderHub appear to have ignored every issue that I have brought up, only to be left trolled by the very same eager to defend trolls, time after time after time, regardless of the issue at hand.
The trouble is, I am (very) aware of how these trolls often operate in a manner designed to make onlookers beileve that something is happening that actaully is not, or that someone is responsible for something that they are not. There's one troll on here who likes to monitor his victims' disagreements with other members, and times his malicious activities carefully, waiting for there to be a disagreement between others before taggaing his victims post with the "Report" button. This is done to make it look as if the person who has just been in disagreement wiht his victim, was the person who hit the "Report" button, when actaully it was himself.
Unfortunately, such obsessive and calculating sociopaths are a hard nut to crack without sophisticated online forensics.
Karma: 1,944
Tue, Oct 07I find the whole thing extremely disturbing. It's not just about what appears clear and in plain sight.
If I were RenderHub, I would be (very) concerned about what is going on here, since the relentless eagerness of trolls jumping to the defense of RenderHub in thread after thread after thread (especially against people who often disagree with RenderHub), really is starting to look quite nefarious. It doesn't help matters, that RenderHub appear to have ignored every issue that I have brought up, only to be left trolled by the very same eager to defend trolls, time after time after time, regardless of the issue at hand.
The trouble is, I am (very) aware of how these trolls often operate in a manner designed to make onlookers beileve that something is happening that actaully is not, or that someone is responsible for something that they are not. There's one troll on here who likes to monitor his victims' disagreements with other members, and times his malicious activities carefully, waiting for there to be a disagreement between others before taggaing his victims post with the "Report" button. This is done to make it look as if the person who has just been in disagreement wiht his victim, was the person who hit the "Report" button, when actaully it was himself.
Unfortunately, such obsessive and calculating sociopaths are a hard nut to crack without sophisticated online forensics.
Lets be honest fairness in contests or galleries doesnt really exist. Most results depend on who owns the fastest GPU and the most expensive setup, not who actually has the best artistic skill.
As for AI, of course the best work is the one made entirely by hand but lets not pretend post-work in Photoshop or GIMP requires a sacred degree in art.
The real question should always be: Was there an actual render?
Because if we start policing whether someone sharpened or added lens flares, well destroy the entire purpose of creating anything at all.
Especially now, when copyright awareness is higher than ever, AI often serves as a source of inspiration or reference even for people like me who paint or draw textures by hand. Its just another tool in the creative process, not a replacement for it
As for AI, of course the best work is the one made entirely by hand but lets not pretend post-work in Photoshop or GIMP requires a sacred degree in art.
The real question should always be: Was there an actual render?
Because if we start policing whether someone sharpened or added lens flares, well destroy the entire purpose of creating anything at all.
Especially now, when copyright awareness is higher than ever, AI often serves as a source of inspiration or reference even for people like me who paint or draw textures by hand. Its just another tool in the creative process, not a replacement for it
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! REPORT
the joker of spades
Karma: 23,063
Wed, Oct 08What did you smoke? Only an incompetent or mediocre person can say that the quality of a work depends only on the hardware. If you don't develop a concept, don't know how to use the camera, don't know how to light, etc., it's all useless. You'll never do a good job unless you seek help from your source of inspiration... and here you're going too far... artificial intelligence was trained by stealing work from the internet, and for you it's a source of inspiration? Don't make me laugh, but are they paying you to defend it? We're only asking for one thing here. We're not asking you not to use it, but whoever uses it should put their work in the AI section without compromise. Is this concept so complicated?
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,729
Wed, Oct 08" Lets be honest fairness in contests or galleries doesnt really exist. Most results depend on who owns the fastest GPU and the most expensive setup, not who actually has the best artistic skill. "
Naa - I completely disagree with that (even if certain people want to convince themselves otherwise). Even with the best equipment (or the best camera), you can produce the most stupid and uninspired nonsense imaginable - while people with " small " hardware can create great, soulful images. The gallery shows this.
And that brings us to our topic: soul and soulful images... or in a nutshell:
There's no MY in AI
Naa - I completely disagree with that (even if certain people want to convince themselves otherwise). Even with the best equipment (or the best camera), you can produce the most stupid and uninspired nonsense imaginable - while people with " small " hardware can create great, soulful images. The gallery shows this.
And that brings us to our topic: soul and soulful images... or in a nutshell:
There's no MY in AI
Luna_s20
Karma: 2,442
Wed, Oct 08If you really believe hardware doesn’t matter, try running Iray on a 15-year-old machine or simulating modern dynamic hair on a low-end system - or even launching a new 3D game on it.
Every contest here judges the final result, not the process. Artistic skill is one thing, but rendering power heavily defines what can even be shown.
When someone uses AI to create textures, generate a model, or replace the actual 3D work, yes - it should be labeled as AI-assisted.
But at this point, post-work in Photoshop or any plugin with lighting automation is also AI-driven.
If someone sharpened their render or added a glow using a modern filter, calling that “AI cheatingis just nitpicking from people who are scared of modern tools.
And inspiration isn’t limited to staring at other people’s images.
Generating a few visuals for reference, comparing lighting setups, materials, or scene compositions can also inspire ideas.
Even text-based AI interactions - like running an RPG scenario to explore atmosphere and dialogue - can spark creativity.
Personally, I hand-make everything, even paint my own textures pixel by pixel.
But when I was creating my last model, AMV_Fawn, I spent days calculating body proportions and counting teeth - and yes, I used AI as a reference assistant to cross-check anatomical data before making technical drawings.
In the past, I would’ve done that with a book or paper sketches.
Today, I don’t have to - and that’s called progress, not incompetence.
Every contest here judges the final result, not the process. Artistic skill is one thing, but rendering power heavily defines what can even be shown.
When someone uses AI to create textures, generate a model, or replace the actual 3D work, yes - it should be labeled as AI-assisted.
But at this point, post-work in Photoshop or any plugin with lighting automation is also AI-driven.
If someone sharpened their render or added a glow using a modern filter, calling that “AI cheatingis just nitpicking from people who are scared of modern tools.
And inspiration isn’t limited to staring at other people’s images.
Generating a few visuals for reference, comparing lighting setups, materials, or scene compositions can also inspire ideas.
Even text-based AI interactions - like running an RPG scenario to explore atmosphere and dialogue - can spark creativity.
Personally, I hand-make everything, even paint my own textures pixel by pixel.
But when I was creating my last model, AMV_Fawn, I spent days calculating body proportions and counting teeth - and yes, I used AI as a reference assistant to cross-check anatomical data before making technical drawings.
In the past, I would’ve done that with a book or paper sketches.
Today, I don’t have to - and that’s called progress, not incompetence.
COMIXIANT
@JokerOfSpades
As per usual you're a voice of common sense on here, and well said!
@Pushee-Ri
That closing statement woud make a great Anti-AI slogan
@Luna-s20
It should come as no surprise to you (or anyone else) that AI is built into software owned by WEF-affiliated corporate assholes like "Adobe". Thankfully there are alternatives that you can use instead, GIMP being the most obvious and now the biggest name in the business despite people's continued brain-washed habit of referring to images as being "Photoshopped" instead of "GIMPED".
Please use your noodles, peeps!
Addititonally, GIMP being Open Source means that you can never find yourself being forced to use a version where any AI cannot be disabled. Trust me, that ethical fork-masters throughout the world will ALWAYS see to that!
And what about Affinity? Well, I saw the writing on the wall for Affinity after being made aware of their new owners, and already moved (now permanently) back over to GIMP months ago. This means that whatever "AI", "Subscription" or "SaaS" bullshit that I suspect is in store for Affinity users, it will not effect me in the slightest.
AI is not "progress". It is anti-human, degrading, and is the biggest threat to mankind that has ever existed.
Karma: 1,944
Wed, Oct 08@JokerOfSpades
As per usual you're a voice of common sense on here, and well said!
@Pushee-Ri
That closing statement woud make a great Anti-AI slogan
@Luna-s20
It should come as no surprise to you (or anyone else) that AI is built into software owned by WEF-affiliated corporate assholes like "Adobe". Thankfully there are alternatives that you can use instead, GIMP being the most obvious and now the biggest name in the business despite people's continued brain-washed habit of referring to images as being "Photoshopped" instead of "GIMPED".
Please use your noodles, peeps!
Addititonally, GIMP being Open Source means that you can never find yourself being forced to use a version where any AI cannot be disabled. Trust me, that ethical fork-masters throughout the world will ALWAYS see to that!
And what about Affinity? Well, I saw the writing on the wall for Affinity after being made aware of their new owners, and already moved (now permanently) back over to GIMP months ago. This means that whatever "AI", "Subscription" or "SaaS" bullshit that I suspect is in store for Affinity users, it will not effect me in the slightest.
AI is not "progress". It is anti-human, degrading, and is the biggest threat to mankind that has ever existed.
the joker of spades
Karma: 23,063
Wed, Oct 08How much longer do I have to hear this talk, I still have a 2060 not a 5090 ... and I keep saying simply put your progress in the right section, you want progress and use artificial intelligence, but you want to post where we backwards post... it seems like something doesn't add up? You defend artificial intelligence but you don't want to post there? Why?
COMIXIANT
Exactly, this is toddler-grade comprehension type stuff:
- This is a ROUND shape ... YAAAAAAAAAY!!!
- This is a SQUARE shape ... YAAAAAAAAAY!!!
Now children, please calm down and pay attention, are you ready? ... YAAAAAAAAAY!!!
Ok then, this a really tricky quesiton that only very clever children get right .... YAAAAAAAAAY!!!
What do we have here? It's a ROUND hole and a SQUARE hole, isn't it? ... YAAAAAAAAAY!!!.
- Which hole do you think the ROUND shape is meant to go in?
- Which hole do you think the SQUARE shape is meant to go in?
Karma: 1,944
Wed, Oct 08Exactly, this is toddler-grade comprehension type stuff:
- This is a ROUND shape ... YAAAAAAAAAY!!!
- This is a SQUARE shape ... YAAAAAAAAAY!!!
Now children, please calm down and pay attention, are you ready? ... YAAAAAAAAAY!!!
Ok then, this a really tricky quesiton that only very clever children get right .... YAAAAAAAAAY!!!
What do we have here? It's a ROUND hole and a SQUARE hole, isn't it? ... YAAAAAAAAAY!!!.
- Which hole do you think the ROUND shape is meant to go in?
- Which hole do you think the SQUARE shape is meant to go in?
To those with the sense to ditch Adobe Photoshop (and Affinity too if it turns out that way), here's an example of how clean and functional GIMP can now be made to look with some simple customisation. This is how I personally have my screen, windows and tabs arranged. I could even design my own icons if I wanted.
But this to me is just bliss. Pure, clean, functional, uncluttered bliss!
Open in another tab and click from the other tab to fill the screen to get a feel for how usable it is with the interface set-up like this ('m using a 1920x1080 monitor). The DazStudio render in this screenshot was completely (and manually) postworked in the very software you see it displayed in, that being GIMP, yet GIMP is completely free and running here on what most would consider a very average machine by todays standards.
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COMIXIANT
And I forgot to mention that the character herself was not rendered on any Nvidia GPU, nevermind a fast one. It was rendered on an AMD RYZEN 2700 CPU, not a GPU.
Karma: 1,944
Wed, Oct 08And I forgot to mention that the character herself was not rendered on any Nvidia GPU, nevermind a fast one. It was rendered on an AMD RYZEN 2700 CPU, not a GPU.
thirdeyezennicai
Karma: 10,994
Wed, Oct 08I might have to give GIMP a try actually: I've used Photoshop 2020 ever since it came out since that's the best version for me by far.
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,862
Wed, Oct 08The problem with Photoshop has not been, that it offers AI.
The Problem has been that it uses your work to train their AI models without your consent, which I'd call theft.
The Problem has been that it uses your work to train their AI models without your consent, which I'd call theft.
COMIXIANT
@thirdeyezennicai
Just preparing something for you and will post below since I can't attach images to replies.
@Masterstroke
That's an abuse that I've always suspected they would be practicing and doesnlt come as any surprise whatseover. And I wouldn't be surprised if Affinity is about to become completely free, but tied to AI and abuse of your privacy with no way out other than to not use it at all (which I no longer do).
But yeah, it's GIMP forever for me from now on, and I get as much satisfaction from saying it as I do from doing it!
Karma: 1,944
Wed, Oct 08@thirdeyezennicai
Just preparing something for you and will post below since I can't attach images to replies.
@Masterstroke
That's an abuse that I've always suspected they would be practicing and doesnlt come as any surprise whatseover. And I wouldn't be surprised if Affinity is about to become completely free, but tied to AI and abuse of your privacy with no way out other than to not use it at all (which I no longer do).
But yeah, it's GIMP forever for me from now on, and I get as much satisfaction from saying it as I do from doing it!
thirdeyezennicai
Karma: 10,994
Wed, Oct 08yeah and that kind of thing is highly concerning. they even know when you're pirating their program, too lol
@thirdeyezennicai
GIMP will feel very odd and quite messy at first. This is because it still has a lot of legacy functionality left in to keep it compatible with older systems. But if you take the time to play with the preferences, drag windows around, dock windows, resize them, right click all over the place and on tabs, you'll soon realise how customisable it is. Be sure to activate all windows, see how each wndow changes depending on the tool selected, and this will help you further in understanding what needs to be at hand, and what doesn't. It's why my interface is so clean and the tabs so sparse.
It's crazy customisable and like I said, you can even design your own icons if you want!
For me, the only problem with GIMP is that a lot of it still hasn't been optimised for milti-core and GPU, so it will take a week or so of reasonale use to pick-up on what is modern and what is not. Some features are so ancient they don't even render live and are shown in a crappy little preview window. The idea is to simply not use those features and stick to the modern stuff.
I read recently that GIMP were just awarded millions of dollars in order to fund getting some hardcore development done, and I believe the bringing up to speed of performance is one of the goals. So for now you'll just have to live with a little sliggishness here and there.
But what you'll also notice about GIMP is that its more modern tools are absolutely incredible! For example here's an updated screen capture of the previous pic, this time showing the Crop Tool selected. I have GIMP set up so that whatever tool I select, the options for that tool are visible in the bottom right window. I've specifically chosen GIMP's crop tool to demonstrate because frankly, it is the best crop tool I have ever used and is the only one I've used that is done right.
It's hard to explain, but other crop tools out there always seem to get it wrong. They either don't mask out the surrounding area, or it's a fixed transparency and not masked out enough. Or they don't offer different crop guides. Or they don't offer precision input, or they don't behave how you would expect when dragging the resize handles in the viewport. There always seems to be something wrong about crop tools. But GIMP is the only one that gets it right on all counts.
Normally, I have the masking set to solid black, but I've set it to 90% here to show you what I'm getting at. Here I have the Guides set to Centre Lines, but again, there is a drop down with options. And depending on whether you have the Aspect Ratio locked or not, hovering your mouse between any of the four handle corners, will give you a bar which when pulled, will automatically resize the top and bottom or left and right in equal measure based upon which handle you pull. This is something that ia hardly ever done right, but again, it is done right in GIMP!
So that's just the modern GIMP Crop Tool for you, and they're working their way through every aspect to bring it all up to date. It's going to be killer mate (it already is in most respects), so the sooner you ditch Photoshop and start learning it, the quicker you cut-off Adobe's wallet sucking bullshit and become skilled in really the only 2D editor that matters these days - GIMP - which is to 2D what Blender is to 3D, so you cannot lose.
Anyway, too much waffling form me so here's that perfect Crop Tool and its options, and good cropping is very important:
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COMIXIANT
Yeah, just don't spend 'em all at once, 'zennicai, that's all
GIMP's Healing Tool is killer as well by the way, great for skin work and faking or removing 'form' beneath the skin!
Karma: 1,944
Wed, Oct 08Yeah, just don't spend 'em all at once, 'zennicai, that's all
GIMP's Healing Tool is killer as well by the way, great for skin work and faking or removing 'form' beneath the skin!
gh0stttt
Karma: 1,372
Wed, Oct 08Do I see another fellow GIMP user?
GIMP is amazing, and yes, I can confirm, it is in fact very customizable. It's my go-to for all my post, even for all my contest entries.
GIMP is amazing, and yes, I can confirm, it is in fact very customizable. It's my go-to for all my post, even for all my contest entries.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Thu, Oct 09Now, this is amazing, and if you could think about any solution, how to get the flood filter from FlamingPear to work in Gimp, I can say good by to CS5 for good
COMIXIANT
@gh0stttt
You do indeed, in fact I'm a perrmanent GIMP user now and I am currenlty attempting to rescue 'zennicai.
@Beautiful Misfits
Sorry, I've never heard of it never mind used it. At the moment I'm on GIMP 3.0.0, and althought I've not got around to downloaded in the latest version yet, I've been keeping an eye on the minor updates since then, and among them I'm pretty sure I read about a whole bunch of new formats and Photoshop compatibe features just been added, so maybe that will fox the problem.
No way I'm reading through them all again, but there is definitely some Photoshop compatibility stuff somewhere among these recent point updates if you fancy to take a butchers:
https://www.gimp.org/news/2025/03/23/gimp-3-0-2-released/
https://www.gimp.org/news/2025/05/18/gimp-3-0-4-released/
https://www.gimp.org/news/2025/06/23/gimp-3-1-2-released/
https://www.gimp.org/news/2025/09/01/gimp-3-1-4-released/
https://www.gimp.org/news/2025/10/06/gimp-3-0-6-released/
As well as Photoshop compatibility stuff, a whole bunch of new formats were added, some I've never even heard of
Karma: 1,944
Thu, Oct 09@gh0stttt
You do indeed, in fact I'm a perrmanent GIMP user now and I am currenlty attempting to rescue 'zennicai.
@Beautiful Misfits
Sorry, I've never heard of it never mind used it. At the moment I'm on GIMP 3.0.0, and althought I've not got around to downloaded in the latest version yet, I've been keeping an eye on the minor updates since then, and among them I'm pretty sure I read about a whole bunch of new formats and Photoshop compatibe features just been added, so maybe that will fox the problem.
No way I'm reading through them all again, but there is definitely some Photoshop compatibility stuff somewhere among these recent point updates if you fancy to take a butchers:
https://www.gimp.org/news/2025/03/23/gimp-3-0-2-released/
https://www.gimp.org/news/2025/05/18/gimp-3-0-4-released/
https://www.gimp.org/news/2025/06/23/gimp-3-1-2-released/
https://www.gimp.org/news/2025/09/01/gimp-3-1-4-released/
https://www.gimp.org/news/2025/10/06/gimp-3-0-6-released/
As well as Photoshop compatibility stuff, a whole bunch of new formats were added, some I've never even heard of
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Thu, Oct 09Thanks
I have gmic-3.6.2 for gimp (3.06) but haven't figured out, how to get that filter in there.
Well, I will try one of the newer ones, maybe it will work
I have gmic-3.6.2 for gimp (3.06) but haven't figured out, how to get that filter in there.
Well, I will try one of the newer ones, maybe it will work
COMIXIANT
I've never bought a Photoshop Filter in my life and wouldn't have even the faintest idea of how to install one, unless perhaps it's just a case of having to put them in a specific plug-in folder or something like that.
But if you have other filters working in GIMP, I suppose the problem could just be down to that specific plugin.
Karma: 1,944
Thu, Oct 09I've never bought a Photoshop Filter in my life and wouldn't have even the faintest idea of how to install one, unless perhaps it's just a case of having to put them in a specific plug-in folder or something like that.
But if you have other filters working in GIMP, I suppose the problem could just be down to that specific plugin.
We artists hate AI, therefore we have this: Human made art gets flamed for being AI, AI art gets drowned or accepted as real - but the AI artist loses nothing because of how quickly they can use AI to rebuild their library. The falsely accused human artist loses everything. This statement is just context to what my opinion is here.
RenderHub has its guidelines, and they stipulate - tools like upscaling or sharpening belong in the main gallery. Everything else that is real renders enhanced by AI belongs in the AI-Enhanced gallery. Anything AI generated has no place on the site. And these imho are well thought out and pragmatic.
Upscaling or sharpening tools have been around since before Gen AI became available to public, and yes those have used AI technology even then. If the work you see isn't that different from the original, frankly I see no issues. I personally see it as no less or more offensive than postwork - something I very much avoid doing and dislike. And just because I dislike postwork(because the original models and textures no longer look the way they were originally), doesn't make me decide to hit the forums and beseech other artists to abstain from it, neither do I give suggestions to the RH staff on the matter. I'm not automatically jumping to the conclusion that all this is over a sharpened image, but in case it is - that's what I think on it.
Now back to the first paragraph and how it relates? Anything shoved into the AI Enhanced gallery will end up less seen. So the real AI enhanced images gain less attention. And sharpened/denoised/upscaled pictures that end up there will get the same outcome. I don't know whether you know why that matters. I have some second hand experience on what it's like working on a 10-year-old office rig and try to pull the best result out of Daz:
The key is performance. When you have it, you can morph your figures in at least one display mode without lags, load props and clothing without the sofware freezing or crashing. You can preview them in iray, if iray is what you use. If you use 3Delight - no preview until you render it. Now - if you DON'T have the performance, you can't preview in Iray at all, and your morphing of a figure comes with lags, you can't even see how the scene will appear with all the props visible. That takes time, that takes mental energy, that comes with anxiety because you won't know what the outcome is gonna be until you spend way too much time trying to render it. Then you click render, it crashes, you go to take pains in optimizing the scene more, sacrifice detail in the name of having a render at all. Then finally it renders for 1, 2, 3 hours, not done yet - and it crashes again. So you go back and fix it - again. So what is the sharpening for here? Well, what if your render, on your potato of a pc, turned out really flipping great but... you messed up the DOF just a tiny bit? And made the characters a little blurry? So should you be punished for not wasting another 8h rendering the thing all while gambling on whether the outcome will be great that time? How long should a render take?
The artists have been using AI denoisers and sharpeners for a very long time, they just avoided disclosing it. You've probably appreciated to these renders too. And for a good reason - they are 99.9% of the artist's work. The artist poured their valuable time and soul into it (possibly after taking a break from being overworked) and now that they're honest, there's a request to punish them for "being offensive". Because this is over offense - artists take great offense at anything AI. So what result are you looking for? To run an artist like that off the site? To make them fall into obscurity? To make them stop using the tool? Or to motivate them to not disclose the sharpening tools? I haven't seen in User Guidelines anything about you having to disclose these AI Sharpening tools, so people have been disclosing them literally out of their desire to be honest.
What I said doesn't apply to one artist in particular. It applies to a hypothetical person, one of many people that actually post their work on this site. The fact is that we don't know exactly why the sharpener was used, but I wouldn't dare assume malice just because I disagree with the site's policies. I disagree with many things, but few of these things warrant an essay like this.
RenderHub has its guidelines, and they stipulate - tools like upscaling or sharpening belong in the main gallery. Everything else that is real renders enhanced by AI belongs in the AI-Enhanced gallery. Anything AI generated has no place on the site. And these imho are well thought out and pragmatic.
Upscaling or sharpening tools have been around since before Gen AI became available to public, and yes those have used AI technology even then. If the work you see isn't that different from the original, frankly I see no issues. I personally see it as no less or more offensive than postwork - something I very much avoid doing and dislike. And just because I dislike postwork(because the original models and textures no longer look the way they were originally), doesn't make me decide to hit the forums and beseech other artists to abstain from it, neither do I give suggestions to the RH staff on the matter. I'm not automatically jumping to the conclusion that all this is over a sharpened image, but in case it is - that's what I think on it.
Now back to the first paragraph and how it relates? Anything shoved into the AI Enhanced gallery will end up less seen. So the real AI enhanced images gain less attention. And sharpened/denoised/upscaled pictures that end up there will get the same outcome. I don't know whether you know why that matters. I have some second hand experience on what it's like working on a 10-year-old office rig and try to pull the best result out of Daz:
The key is performance. When you have it, you can morph your figures in at least one display mode without lags, load props and clothing without the sofware freezing or crashing. You can preview them in iray, if iray is what you use. If you use 3Delight - no preview until you render it. Now - if you DON'T have the performance, you can't preview in Iray at all, and your morphing of a figure comes with lags, you can't even see how the scene will appear with all the props visible. That takes time, that takes mental energy, that comes with anxiety because you won't know what the outcome is gonna be until you spend way too much time trying to render it. Then you click render, it crashes, you go to take pains in optimizing the scene more, sacrifice detail in the name of having a render at all. Then finally it renders for 1, 2, 3 hours, not done yet - and it crashes again. So you go back and fix it - again. So what is the sharpening for here? Well, what if your render, on your potato of a pc, turned out really flipping great but... you messed up the DOF just a tiny bit? And made the characters a little blurry? So should you be punished for not wasting another 8h rendering the thing all while gambling on whether the outcome will be great that time? How long should a render take?
The artists have been using AI denoisers and sharpeners for a very long time, they just avoided disclosing it. You've probably appreciated to these renders too. And for a good reason - they are 99.9% of the artist's work. The artist poured their valuable time and soul into it (possibly after taking a break from being overworked) and now that they're honest, there's a request to punish them for "being offensive". Because this is over offense - artists take great offense at anything AI. So what result are you looking for? To run an artist like that off the site? To make them fall into obscurity? To make them stop using the tool? Or to motivate them to not disclose the sharpening tools? I haven't seen in User Guidelines anything about you having to disclose these AI Sharpening tools, so people have been disclosing them literally out of their desire to be honest.
What I said doesn't apply to one artist in particular. It applies to a hypothetical person, one of many people that actually post their work on this site. The fact is that we don't know exactly why the sharpener was used, but I wouldn't dare assume malice just because I disagree with the site's policies. I disagree with many things, but few of these things warrant an essay like this.
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! REPORT
What is the reason for renderhub to have a gallery? To showcase the models on the site? That would be the obvious reason.
To attract site traffic and a community is another great reason. To appeal to certain industries another. Game developers, production companies and individuals buy models so having a gallery is also a great place to show of your work and projects weather it be a game or small 3d asset.
The reason ai is not allowed in the main gallery is obvious and important to portray a real representation of the products.
Today i see a bunch of "renders" tagged as made with unreal. They are so obviously ai with a render put in the foreground. Why would I want to showcase my game made with real assets with hundreds of hours of work gone into a unique scene. Why would any self respecting developer want there work to be in the same gallery as ai?
Serious people want a serious gallery. Whats the point in bothering to put our work here if we are forced into conflict with aggressive pro ai users?
I'm struggling to be motivated to bother.
To attract site traffic and a community is another great reason. To appeal to certain industries another. Game developers, production companies and individuals buy models so having a gallery is also a great place to show of your work and projects weather it be a game or small 3d asset.
The reason ai is not allowed in the main gallery is obvious and important to portray a real representation of the products.
Today i see a bunch of "renders" tagged as made with unreal. They are so obviously ai with a render put in the foreground. Why would I want to showcase my game made with real assets with hundreds of hours of work gone into a unique scene. Why would any self respecting developer want there work to be in the same gallery as ai?
Serious people want a serious gallery. Whats the point in bothering to put our work here if we are forced into conflict with aggressive pro ai users?
I'm struggling to be motivated to bother.
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! REPORT
We need yet another gallery category for real in engine renders, no ai or post.
what is a render in the digital sense of the meaning?
A digital scene generated by simulating light bouncing around a 3d environment. The scene can be a single image or taken from a series of images in a film strip. The render can be a still frame taken from a game.
Given this is fore mostly a 3d asset marketplace and a community of artist, model makers and a few game developers. If i was to showcase my game stills or a 3d product then it should have a dedicated gallery.
A render is the result of your digital scene and should represent exactly that. artwork is different as post production is a factor. Ai is not simply another addition to post if it is generative in any way.
So now we have 4 categories for galleries before we even talk about adult images.
It's only sharpen or upscale, should I sharpen my game capture images or do any post on them at all? No because I need to get it right in engine.
You could say the same about plugins and scripts because they are generative but they are not destructive or detrimental to any industry or livelihood. Scripts do a specific job. I know it's a very smudged and blury line but there has to be a line somewhere.
For some of us this is a hobby and others a full time job and reputation. As a game developer I want a game related gallery to put my work. Ai should not be a factor and neither is post production. Native renders from real projects.
We're not arguing about ai being used in production here that's another subject were asking for the main gallery that was originally a no ai at all policy to be respected.
Additionally there is a big thread onsite pushing ai and regularly uploading meme video's insulting traditional artist. May I point out that that thread breaks the site's TOS . Especially as it's not a discussion as any artist with a view on the matter is swiftly attacked and aggressively mocked by the site's in house ai troll.
There are other new galley site's with a no ai policy and they even watermark your work and actively help protect your ip. The ai policy here has fractured the entire community sadly.
what is a render in the digital sense of the meaning?
A digital scene generated by simulating light bouncing around a 3d environment. The scene can be a single image or taken from a series of images in a film strip. The render can be a still frame taken from a game.
Given this is fore mostly a 3d asset marketplace and a community of artist, model makers and a few game developers. If i was to showcase my game stills or a 3d product then it should have a dedicated gallery.
A render is the result of your digital scene and should represent exactly that. artwork is different as post production is a factor. Ai is not simply another addition to post if it is generative in any way.
So now we have 4 categories for galleries before we even talk about adult images.
It's only sharpen or upscale, should I sharpen my game capture images or do any post on them at all? No because I need to get it right in engine.
You could say the same about plugins and scripts because they are generative but they are not destructive or detrimental to any industry or livelihood. Scripts do a specific job. I know it's a very smudged and blury line but there has to be a line somewhere.
For some of us this is a hobby and others a full time job and reputation. As a game developer I want a game related gallery to put my work. Ai should not be a factor and neither is post production. Native renders from real projects.
We're not arguing about ai being used in production here that's another subject were asking for the main gallery that was originally a no ai at all policy to be respected.
Additionally there is a big thread onsite pushing ai and regularly uploading meme video's insulting traditional artist. May I point out that that thread breaks the site's TOS . Especially as it's not a discussion as any artist with a view on the matter is swiftly attacked and aggressively mocked by the site's in house ai troll.
There are other new galley site's with a no ai policy and they even watermark your work and actively help protect your ip. The ai policy here has fractured the entire community sadly.
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dirtrider00
Karma: 16,490
Sat, Oct 11I really like the idea you have of adding a "No Postwork" render engine only gallery. I stay out of the whole AI, AI enhanced stuff because I don't consider myself an artist, don't like doing postwork or have a desire to learn modeling. Basically I don't have a chicken in this fight and can see both sides point of view. I just like making pictures with the content I've bought over the years from the content creators.
I know personally I'd love to see what people can do with their preferred choice of software and render engine without wondering if there was any postwork done to it. Think it could help not only myself, but others, especially the newer crowd getting started.
I know personally I'd love to see what people can do with their preferred choice of software and render engine without wondering if there was any postwork done to it. Think it could help not only myself, but others, especially the newer crowd getting started.
undeadcrabb
Karma: 4,290
Sun, Oct 12I agree - postwork free galleries should be a thing. Reason being, the postworked image isn't a representation of the actual model as it is received by the customer. AI upscaling or sharpening imho should be classed as a form of edit, not that different than fixing model clipping issues in post. Although tbh I'm more bothered by the postwork present in the promo images of the products, since you're buying the edited version of the model, expecting it to look that good, only to get something that falls short of that expectation.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,037
Sun, Oct 12Amazing idea!
Maybe you open a post with that request for a gallery without postwork at all.
I'm afraid, it will get lost in here.
Maybe you open a post with that request for a gallery without postwork at all.
I'm afraid, it will get lost in here.
dirtrider00
Karma: 16,490
Sun, Oct 12I just asked in the feedback forum. Might help if others chimed in.
bonj
Karma: 12,812
Sun, Oct 12Thanks for the feedback regarding postwork free galleries. Much appreciated
There sincerely is no excuse for allowing AI-enhanced anything into a 'Traditional' gallery.
This place has gone from being "Anti-AI" to having an "AI-Specific" gallery, right up to the situation we have now where AI is allowed to pollute even the Traditional galleries despite their being a dedicated AI gallery on here. I get that this AI lark is a bit too much for the talentless to avoid, but that's no excuse for allowing it to pollute the tradiitonal galleries.
There's no excuse for it, and unless RenderHub have a serious talk with themselves and start clearing up the matter, then it will get harder and harder to clear up later as time accumulates, and more and more have been allowed to pollute the traditional galleries.
The situation somehow reminds me of the lyrics to the Erasure track "Home" which goes ...
"White circles play within my mind
Ices over and freezes life
Time will come, time will come, time will fall
Bringing the world to its feet
Bringing the world to her hands and her knees"
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! REPORT
Traditional artists about 3D artists: "If you didn't paint it yourself, it is not real art!"
3D artists about Poser/Studio artists: "If you didn't build it yourself, it is not real art!"
Poser/Studio artists about AI artists: "If you didn't arrange it yourself, it is not real art!"
I wonder what comes next?
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Well, I'm a Poser artist, although I see myself more as a "virtual scale modeller" rather than an "artist".
And I seriously abhor postwork.
Back in the day I had many heated arguments when I pleaded for more realistic sculpting and especially rigging.
But it seems many people rather prefer to again and again use the clone or smudge tool in Photoshop rather than permanently fix the joint centers and falloff zones of a Poser or Studio figure once and for all.
Or fix the brightness and levels post-Render than spending some time dialing in the actual light set used.
So, yes, I'd really welcome a "NO POSTWORK" type gallery.
(Given that I've never seen a well rigged default Poser or Studio figure, this shall be quite entertaining.)
*
BUT...I really do welcome the advent of our new AI-Overlords!
AI is probably our best chance to finally reach the post-scarcity world we've been promised so long ago.
Also can't wait for Season 4 of TOS.
3D artists about Poser/Studio artists: "If you didn't build it yourself, it is not real art!"
Poser/Studio artists about AI artists: "If you didn't arrange it yourself, it is not real art!"
I wonder what comes next?
*********************************************************************************************************
Well, I'm a Poser artist, although I see myself more as a "virtual scale modeller" rather than an "artist".
And I seriously abhor postwork.
Back in the day I had many heated arguments when I pleaded for more realistic sculpting and especially rigging.
But it seems many people rather prefer to again and again use the clone or smudge tool in Photoshop rather than permanently fix the joint centers and falloff zones of a Poser or Studio figure once and for all.
Or fix the brightness and levels post-Render than spending some time dialing in the actual light set used.
So, yes, I'd really welcome a "NO POSTWORK" type gallery.
(Given that I've never seen a well rigged default Poser or Studio figure, this shall be quite entertaining.)
*
BUT...I really do welcome the advent of our new AI-Overlords!
AI is probably our best chance to finally reach the post-scarcity world we've been promised so long ago.
Also can't wait for Season 4 of TOS.
REPLY
! REPORT
Quote:
"Traditional artists about 3D artists: "If you didn't paint it yourself, it is not real art!"
3D artists about Poser/Studio artists: "If you didn't build it yourself, it is not real art!"
Poser/Studio artists about AI artists: "If you didn't arrange it yourself, it is not real art!"
I wonder what comes next?"
Yup, that's what they say...
Photographers don't create their environment either.
All artists (photigrapher, traditional artists, digital artists)
are creating their vision with an intend.
That is not, what is happening with AI. It is not impossible though, as long you are willing to write a 30 pages long prompt.
It still might not look like what you intended.
AI is more of a surprise party, where you select your favorit results.
The clearest sign, that AI is not art, is its repative nature. Since AI is a learning algorythm, it follows the most anticipated style and creates a mainstream and kills artistic indivualism on the way.
BTW:
As being in the 3d fraction, doesn't any of those AI-guys miss to navigate in this 3d environment, by exploring a scene with a virtual camera in order to find the best POV?
"Traditional artists about 3D artists: "If you didn't paint it yourself, it is not real art!"
3D artists about Poser/Studio artists: "If you didn't build it yourself, it is not real art!"
Poser/Studio artists about AI artists: "If you didn't arrange it yourself, it is not real art!"
I wonder what comes next?"
Yup, that's what they say...
Photographers don't create their environment either.
All artists (photigrapher, traditional artists, digital artists)
are creating their vision with an intend.
That is not, what is happening with AI. It is not impossible though, as long you are willing to write a 30 pages long prompt.
It still might not look like what you intended.
AI is more of a surprise party, where you select your favorit results.
The clearest sign, that AI is not art, is its repative nature. Since AI is a learning algorythm, it follows the most anticipated style and creates a mainstream and kills artistic indivualism on the way.
BTW:
As being in the 3d fraction, doesn't any of those AI-guys miss to navigate in this 3d environment, by exploring a scene with a virtual camera in order to find the best POV?
REPLY
! REPORT
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,862
Sun, Oct 12The clearest sign, that AI is not art, is its _repetitive_ nature.
sorry
sorry
@dirtrider00
I see you're another who likes to silence people using the Block functionality in an attempt to prevent themselves being made to look like the hypocrite they are. I therefore take great pleasure in delivering this reality check to you.
Why would a "ZERO POSTWORK" gallery be any more important on here than expecting the "Traditional" galleries to be "ZERO-AI"?
To call this hypocritical of you would be an understatement, since to have something like that on here when they cannot even honour a simple thing like "ZERO-AI" in the "Traditional" galleries, would surely create even more of a backlash!
Postwork? Personally I cannot think of a single postwork operation that I couldn't recreate directly in an Iray render anyway, so if I wanted to, I'd still be able to post any render that looks like any I have posted so far, directly to such a gallery and they would be valid even with their rendered-in postwork. Iray is a physically based renderer, and what that means is that it's capable of rendering anything you tell it too (including render processes that would normally be done in postwork). It just takes more setting up and longer to render, that's all.
As always, skill is key here, and no amount of pampered hypocrisy or 'Block Button' usage from you (or from anyone) will change the fact.
YOUR REALITY-CHECK STATUS UPDATE:
SIGNED>SEALED>DELIVERED
REPLY
! REPORT
@RenderHub
Is there any reason imparticular why my private discussion has all of a sudden stopped been "Seen" by you, and at least three suspected trolls all appear to have suddenly lost their tongue?
My messages stopped been "Seen" last Monday, which is strange since there were only hours between communication prior to that.
There's a premium content website and a whole bunch of products I'm working on that I'd much prefer to be getting on with, so at this point I'm really just hanging around to see how you handle the screenshot and related behaviour presented to you.
REPLY
! REPORT
COMIXIANT
Oh and by the way, in light of what appears to be even more troll accounts entered this thread recently, it might be wise to tread carefully in the rather convieneint new thread started by "dirtrider00". Unless of course, the the new account also participating in that htread with a similar name of "DirtRider" in "dirtrider00's" new thread, is just a coincidence, and that it also just happens to be coincidence that the thread was blocked to a person heavily in to postwork, and would obviously want to voice an opinion on the matter (me).
I've succeeded in ensuring the person responsible for posting that thread does not get his way in silencing my opinion. I've done that by replying here instead. Nevertheless, I recommend people tread VERY carefully, because as pointed out, the sheer obsessive level of hatred and the calculating, targeted attacks on members of the public being practiced on this forum, is something that needs VERY serious attention indeed.
Or are they waiting for such blatant, dangerous levels of obsession to evolve into someone actually being kllled by whatever paleolithic-brained religious nut-job is behind the calculating, targeted attacks?
Karma: 1,944
Mon, Oct 13Oh and by the way, in light of what appears to be even more troll accounts entered this thread recently, it might be wise to tread carefully in the rather convieneint new thread started by "dirtrider00". Unless of course, the the new account also participating in that htread with a similar name of "DirtRider" in "dirtrider00's" new thread, is just a coincidence, and that it also just happens to be coincidence that the thread was blocked to a person heavily in to postwork, and would obviously want to voice an opinion on the matter (me).
I've succeeded in ensuring the person responsible for posting that thread does not get his way in silencing my opinion. I've done that by replying here instead. Nevertheless, I recommend people tread VERY carefully, because as pointed out, the sheer obsessive level of hatred and the calculating, targeted attacks on members of the public being practiced on this forum, is something that needs VERY serious attention indeed.
Or are they waiting for such blatant, dangerous levels of obsession to evolve into someone actually being kllled by whatever paleolithic-brained religious nut-job is behind the calculating, targeted attacks?
COMIXIANT
This issue is not going away, and any moves taken to hide it from public view, or sweep it under the carpet, will be met with truly profound levels of legal recourse as aoon as I'm in a financial postion to instruct a specialist solicitor.
For obvious reasons, malicious, obessively calculating, targeted attacks towards members of the public are illegal.
Karma: 1,944
Mon, Oct 13This issue is not going away, and any moves taken to hide it from public view, or sweep it under the carpet, will be met with truly profound levels of legal recourse as aoon as I'm in a financial postion to instruct a specialist solicitor.
For obvious reasons, malicious, obessively calculating, targeted attacks towards members of the public are illegal.
Wow, I just saw a major troll on here insulting 'Masterstroke' of all people!
I would therefore like to welcome Masterstroke to the club. It's quite an exclusive club, too, and you're only a little behind Bonj, Pinspotter and myself in that you still have to be Blocked by him in order to achieve full membership. He blocks people he's not man enough to have a debate with (because he knows he'll lose the dabate). Surely that makes him the very epitome of "effeminate" hypocrisy?
Men have balls and will stand their ground in any debate.
"Men" don't need an "Ignore" button to protect their ego
Dear Masterstroke, your invite has officially arrived, it's nice to have you and it's about bloody time, you're long overdue mate:
REPLY
! REPORT
deathd Wrote:
"I generally stay out of AI threads, certain anti-AI zealots are allowed to toss out abuse and insults with impunity it seems."
Would it surprise you to learn that those of us with ethics are sick and tired of having to watch you zero-ethic AI zealots being allowed to disrupt and troll the smooth running of a comminuty "with impunity" where artists are supposed to be key?
I do have the solution to this problem though; it's a website called renderhub.ai
Just imagine how awesome that would be, if RenderHub were to open a new website called renderhub. ai? They even have a gallery full of AI garbage on here that they could transfer over there for the big launch!
You would all be very happy there, right? It would mean that RenderHub could confidently enforce a 100% strict NO AI WHATSEOVER rule on here, with no excuses, no exceptions, and those of us on here could rightly to tell you to fuck-off over to the AI dedicated webite where the unethical, stolen-data zealots like to play. The only "zealots" insulting "with impunity" are you zero-ethic AI types, made all the more insulting by RenderHub who, for reasons unknown, do not even enforce a thing so simple as keeping the traditional galleries completely free of AI-Enhanced images!
Now surely, If having a dedicated AI website version of RenderHub is a problem to anyone on here, then that person clearly has a problem PURELY BECUASE it removes their ability to pose along-side people with ethics and talent. If that is not the goal of AI users, then surely none of them should turn their noses up to a dedicated renderhub.ia website, and should be all for this suggestion!
There would be no excuses, all AI images and forum posts discussing AI on here BANNED/REMOVED and relegated to renderhub.ai
As well as dumping the AI galleries you've already made over there, RenderHub would even be able to set the websitd up so that your username is registered across both websites whenever you join either. All it would take is to share the registration database between websites.
Genuis or what?
So how about you go and think that suggestion over for a while, "zealot"?
REPLY
! REPORT
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Tue, Oct 14There will be no renderhubAI site, for the same reason that a renderhubADULT site wasn't created.
The AI gallery has been created, and for RenderHub, the issue is closed. All our conversations about AI won't change anything.
The AI gallery has been created, and for RenderHub, the issue is closed. All our conversations about AI won't change anything.
deathd
Karma: 1,509
Tue, Oct 14Looks like you have too many tabs open and replied to the wrong thread. Anyways all I hear is all the same old BS. I don't even have any AI images in the gallery here, but I like it how it is. No need for your little quarantine site in my opinion, and I doubt renderhub would shell out the bucks it would cost to please a vocal minority.
It seems like maybe 20 people tops cares about this enough to even respond to AI threads, both for and against. Then again, that's the whole forum really, not a lot of people are here chatting. Most people it seems are just here to buy and sell.
It seems like maybe 20 people tops cares about this enough to even respond to AI threads, both for and against. Then again, that's the whole forum really, not a lot of people are here chatting. Most people it seems are just here to buy and sell.
COMIXIANT
@guy91600
Sadly you could be right, but all that would do is leave the market open for another company to do it instead.
That aside, what I said about sharing a database between websites, in hindsight that would be a (very) bad idea since those of us with ethics would never join a website dedicated to AI "art". I wouldn't want my username having anything to do with such a place, put it that way.
Either way, these raging AI debates are going to continue for as long as unethical people are allowed to dump their unethical, AI-Enhanced garbage alongside the work of those of us with ethics. This should be obvious to everyone by now, and there is NO excuse for allowing it, they have a dedicated "AI-Enhanced" gallery on here to infest instead, so why on earth is it allowed?
One of the biggest problems we face with this AI bullshit, is the tightly controlled narrative around what is being spoon-fed to the public by the establishment behind it all. And as a result, I really don't think these AI users realise just HOW much they are completely and utterly despised by those of us with ethics!
@deathd
The fact that you see the Anti-AI crowd as the problem instead of the unethical AI users, speaks volumes. You are so far in the minority (and so far removed from reality) that it truly beggars belief. You're under the same establishment controlled influence as every other unethical AI zealot who uses it. What you need to remember every time you attack the ethical Anti-AI crowd, is that you demoise those with ethics while feeding your unethical greed and truly mind-blowing stupidity.
FACT: One who is unethical enough to use AI, is in NO position to be name-calling those of us WITH ethics, "zealot"
Karma: 1,944
Tue, Oct 14@guy91600
Sadly you could be right, but all that would do is leave the market open for another company to do it instead.
That aside, what I said about sharing a database between websites, in hindsight that would be a (very) bad idea since those of us with ethics would never join a website dedicated to AI "art". I wouldn't want my username having anything to do with such a place, put it that way.
Either way, these raging AI debates are going to continue for as long as unethical people are allowed to dump their unethical, AI-Enhanced garbage alongside the work of those of us with ethics. This should be obvious to everyone by now, and there is NO excuse for allowing it, they have a dedicated "AI-Enhanced" gallery on here to infest instead, so why on earth is it allowed?
One of the biggest problems we face with this AI bullshit, is the tightly controlled narrative around what is being spoon-fed to the public by the establishment behind it all. And as a result, I really don't think these AI users realise just HOW much they are completely and utterly despised by those of us with ethics!
@deathd
The fact that you see the Anti-AI crowd as the problem instead of the unethical AI users, speaks volumes. You are so far in the minority (and so far removed from reality) that it truly beggars belief. You're under the same establishment controlled influence as every other unethical AI zealot who uses it. What you need to remember every time you attack the ethical Anti-AI crowd, is that you demoise those with ethics while feeding your unethical greed and truly mind-blowing stupidity.
FACT: One who is unethical enough to use AI, is in NO position to be name-calling those of us WITH ethics, "zealot"
deathd
Karma: 1,509
Tue, Oct 14Surprised you haven't been banned yet, you are always shit stirring in the forums. Renderhub is a lot more lenient than I would be I guess. And yes, I see people trolling the forums as a problem. Sue me I guess.
COMIXIANT
Hey now, there's a difference between "Fact Talker" and "Shit Stirrer. And since you're the one name-calling those on the right side of ethics again, it is quite clear that I am the former, and you are the latter.
You cannot win this debate and the reason is simple; It is because I am right and you are wrong. And if anyone needs "banning" on here, it is surely the death-threat sending 'Wannabe-Godfather', and those using multiple accounts in order to orchestrate malicious, targeted attacks against members of the public.
You won't be getitng sued for your opinion, you're entitled to it and I'm man enough to take it. And personally, if I were you (which thankfully I am not), I'd be far more concerned about how you must look to onlookers, because try as you might, a person with no ethics will never succeed in demonising one who has ethics and facts on his side.
Facts will see to that. And the thing about facts is that you CAN twist them, you CAN hide them, but you CANNOT change them, which is why smart people ALWAYS side with facts. Seriously powerful things, facts are!
Another thing I'm rather fond of is something called "Evidence", and I've plenty of that on my side, too!
I suggest raising your IQ fair bit before practicing any further verbal against me, othersie you'll continue to lose the debate as you have done in every reply you've had from me so far (and will continue to lose if you continue with your insults)..
Your biggest mistake is being a self-confessed AI user, one that felt the need to insult those on the right side of ethics!
Karma: 1,944
Tue, Oct 14Hey now, there's a difference between "Fact Talker" and "Shit Stirrer. And since you're the one name-calling those on the right side of ethics again, it is quite clear that I am the former, and you are the latter.
You cannot win this debate and the reason is simple; It is because I am right and you are wrong. And if anyone needs "banning" on here, it is surely the death-threat sending 'Wannabe-Godfather', and those using multiple accounts in order to orchestrate malicious, targeted attacks against members of the public.
You won't be getitng sued for your opinion, you're entitled to it and I'm man enough to take it. And personally, if I were you (which thankfully I am not), I'd be far more concerned about how you must look to onlookers, because try as you might, a person with no ethics will never succeed in demonising one who has ethics and facts on his side.
Facts will see to that. And the thing about facts is that you CAN twist them, you CAN hide them, but you CANNOT change them, which is why smart people ALWAYS side with facts. Seriously powerful things, facts are!
Another thing I'm rather fond of is something called "Evidence", and I've plenty of that on my side, too!
I suggest raising your IQ fair bit before practicing any further verbal against me, othersie you'll continue to lose the debate as you have done in every reply you've had from me so far (and will continue to lose if you continue with your insults)..
Your biggest mistake is being a self-confessed AI user, one that felt the need to insult those on the right side of ethics!
