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GLBPole Answer "Which Genesis Figure is the Best?"
285Thread Activity
terrancew_hod7 Hours ago
COMIXIANT9 Hours ago
terrancew_hod11 Hours ago
terrancew_hod11 Hours ago
terrancew_hod11 Hours ago
Masterstroke14 Hours ago
I can't answer this question because I have not compared/contrasted them.
If the pole question was instead "Which genesis figure do you use the most?" then I could answer it.
If the pole question was instead "Which genesis figure do you use the most?" then I could answer it.
! REPORT
lukon
Karma: 6,297
Thu, Oct 16One reason I can't compare/contrast G9 to the rest is I don't use Daz Studio 4.2 or above. Still stuck in the past, I am. Yay Blender 2.79!
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Fri, Oct 17I used G9 with studio 4.12, the only problem is for the rendering, Genesis is gray, for the rest I did not notice any problem
Yea, I'm not sure exactly what the question was the the creator of the pole wanted to answer. I'm guessing it was possibly which figure to you like to use the most? But it could also be which figure has the best design, or which figure has the best human topology, or which figure has the best topology for sculpting, or which figure bends the best, or which figure has your favorite characters, or which figure has the best realism, or????
IMHO the figure with the best human topology was Genesis 2. The figure with the best topology for for creating morph using sculpting tools is Genesis 9. The figure with the best bends ..... definitely not G9 (but for the most part acceptable now). The figure with my favorite characters is really difficult because I have characters I created in all of the Genesis generations, but the most are G8 and I now have several for G9. Which figure has the best realism for me is more dependent on the combination of available quality of the skin materials and HD details ..... probably G8 (maybe G8/8.1), but there are a some great options for G9, but due to the lack of good (no?) human topology I think G9 has a bit more inherent uncanny valley issues.
Oh, G8/8.1 definitely has the best support for clothing, hair, morphs, etc.
Which one do I use the most? It depends on the image I'm trying to create. I'll typically just us the generation that matches the cloths I want to use, since I have characters I like in each generation. Or, if I purchase a character I really want to use, then that's the generation I will use. I still purchase G8/8.1 characters/cloths that are unique and/or exceptional, the same is true for G9 (something that is different or of better quality than anything I already have).
IMHO the figure with the best human topology was Genesis 2. The figure with the best topology for for creating morph using sculpting tools is Genesis 9. The figure with the best bends ..... definitely not G9 (but for the most part acceptable now). The figure with my favorite characters is really difficult because I have characters I created in all of the Genesis generations, but the most are G8 and I now have several for G9. Which figure has the best realism for me is more dependent on the combination of available quality of the skin materials and HD details ..... probably G8 (maybe G8/8.1), but there are a some great options for G9, but due to the lack of good (no?) human topology I think G9 has a bit more inherent uncanny valley issues.
Oh, G8/8.1 definitely has the best support for clothing, hair, morphs, etc.
Which one do I use the most? It depends on the image I'm trying to create. I'll typically just us the generation that matches the cloths I want to use, since I have characters I like in each generation. Or, if I purchase a character I really want to use, then that's the generation I will use. I still purchase G8/8.1 characters/cloths that are unique and/or exceptional, the same is true for G9 (something that is different or of better quality than anything I already have).
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! REPORT
Having Laura (Ballet Girl) in my library, I asked her directly, literally just now, so what's the best Genesis, do you reckon?
She thought about it (very) carefully for the greater part of a whole second before coming to a conclusion.
She (a Genesis 9) concluded that Genesis 9 is the best Genesis. What she doesn't realise is her chin is currenly sagging and I didn't fix it before taking the photo cause I'm currently working on her ears instead!
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COMIXIANT
Personally, I also do prefer Genesis 9.
I don't recall I ever saved a single character when playing around with Genesis 8 or 8.1, or if I did I must have forgotten about it. But in contrast, I find that I save quite a few characters when using Genesis 9. For me, I'd say it mainly comes down to the eyes and the geometry, but it's hard one really because in some ways I donl't prefer the Genesis 9 geometry, but in some ways I do.
So really, the only way I can decide which one is worthy of "Best Genesis" award, is to reward the one that has most rewarded me, and for me personally that is definitely Genesis 9.
Karma: 1,944
Thu, Oct 16Personally, I also do prefer Genesis 9.
I don't recall I ever saved a single character when playing around with Genesis 8 or 8.1, or if I did I must have forgotten about it. But in contrast, I find that I save quite a few characters when using Genesis 9. For me, I'd say it mainly comes down to the eyes and the geometry, but it's hard one really because in some ways I donl't prefer the Genesis 9 geometry, but in some ways I do.
So really, the only way I can decide which one is worthy of "Best Genesis" award, is to reward the one that has most rewarded me, and for me personally that is definitely Genesis 9.
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,862
Thu, Oct 16Let‘s say, Genesis 9 is great, if you decide to create portraits, only.
COMIXIANT
Gotta be honest mate, the only issue I've found with the body is that area between the breasts that appears to project a rigid-like area right through to the back. Kinda weird, but nothing a quick morph can't sort out!
All I can say is, if I do come across some show-stopping problem with the body as i progress, then I'll be dropping the whole thing and will concentrate purely on Blender for 3D from then on. I never came to this with the intention of making products to vend. I really only got into Genesis 9 in order to create characters for a bunch of direct-to-print Comix I plan to produce, and in fact that's exactly where the username "COMIXIANT" comes from, it's a portmenteau of the words "COMIX" and "DEVIANT".
Karma: 1,944
Fri, Oct 17Gotta be honest mate, the only issue I've found with the body is that area between the breasts that appears to project a rigid-like area right through to the back. Kinda weird, but nothing a quick morph can't sort out!
All I can say is, if I do come across some show-stopping problem with the body as i progress, then I'll be dropping the whole thing and will concentrate purely on Blender for 3D from then on. I never came to this with the intention of making products to vend. I really only got into Genesis 9 in order to create characters for a bunch of direct-to-print Comix I plan to produce, and in fact that's exactly where the username "COMIXIANT" comes from, it's a portmenteau of the words "COMIX" and "DEVIANT".
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,862
Fri, Oct 17G9's female base has sausage arms, bulky shoulders and a spine shape, that I find super hard to fix.
Obviously many vendors can't fix those either, for they just keep going with it.
Most vendors are on that same level of stylized ripped female shape train anyway.
Once the body shape is fixed, it all falls apart, on posing, because a ton of extra JCMs are needed in order to give some smooth joints.
You can sculpt the most appealing body shape, but as soon, you pose it beyond some moderate idle stance pose, it looks like ... what ever.
I just can't stand the female G9. To me, it is the worst DAZ figure since Victoria 4, which had excactly the same problems.
Both figures are equally just "portrait figures".
(I digress. DAZ Studio is my Nr. 1 hobby, but everything's coming from DAZ or DAZ vendors goes against my ideas and my visions.)
Obviously many vendors can't fix those either, for they just keep going with it.
Most vendors are on that same level of stylized ripped female shape train anyway.
Once the body shape is fixed, it all falls apart, on posing, because a ton of extra JCMs are needed in order to give some smooth joints.
You can sculpt the most appealing body shape, but as soon, you pose it beyond some moderate idle stance pose, it looks like ... what ever.
I just can't stand the female G9. To me, it is the worst DAZ figure since Victoria 4, which had excactly the same problems.
Both figures are equally just "portrait figures".
(I digress. DAZ Studio is my Nr. 1 hobby, but everything's coming from DAZ or DAZ vendors goes against my ideas and my visions.)
COMIXIANT
Masterstroke, sincerely, when you're at your level of skill, you're hardly ever (if ever) going to be happy with anything a vendor creates. There ill always be something that bugs you about the character, the hair, the clothes etc.
Ever since I found out about it, I can tell you that Daz Studio "Reverse Deformations" used in combination with Blender's sculpting tools has become my best friend. I've not gotten to the point of creating any automatic JCMs using that method, wouldn't know where to start.in terms of automating the morph, but nevertheless the method of using Reverse Deformations with Blender's sculpt tools is a life-saver.
Personally, if I were you, I would look into the power of Reverse Deformations in Daz Studio and Blender's sculpting tools regardless of the fact you don't get along with Blender. At the very least, the sculpting tools in Blender are very logical in use and easy to use.
I only found out about Reverse Deformations in years and I was over the bloody moon when I did, because it was something I had always wished would exist (and thankfully is does). Bottom line mate, is you're never going to be 100% satisfied with any Genesis, never, no matter what.
Karma: 1,944
18 Hours agoMasterstroke, sincerely, when you're at your level of skill, you're hardly ever (if ever) going to be happy with anything a vendor creates. There ill always be something that bugs you about the character, the hair, the clothes etc.
Ever since I found out about it, I can tell you that Daz Studio "Reverse Deformations" used in combination with Blender's sculpting tools has become my best friend. I've not gotten to the point of creating any automatic JCMs using that method, wouldn't know where to start.in terms of automating the morph, but nevertheless the method of using Reverse Deformations with Blender's sculpt tools is a life-saver.
Personally, if I were you, I would look into the power of Reverse Deformations in Daz Studio and Blender's sculpting tools regardless of the fact you don't get along with Blender. At the very least, the sculpting tools in Blender are very logical in use and easy to use.
I only found out about Reverse Deformations in years and I was over the bloody moon when I did, because it was something I had always wished would exist (and thankfully is does). Bottom line mate, is you're never going to be 100% satisfied with any Genesis, never, no matter what.
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,862
16 Hours agoReverse Deformations is not the problem and works fine for me. I am doing it for quite some time now.
The main problem is, that G9 femine needs a complete reshaping.
The base G8F shape is slightly stylized, but still quite generic, unlike G9.
The basic issue is, that G9 femine takes so much more work, than G8F.
Again, nobody seems to want to invest into that work, that's why G9 female bodies look so much alike.
The main problem is, that G9 femine needs a complete reshaping.
The base G8F shape is slightly stylized, but still quite generic, unlike G9.
The basic issue is, that G9 femine takes so much more work, than G8F.
Again, nobody seems to want to invest into that work, that's why G9 female bodies look so much alike.
COMIXIANT
But "G9 Feminine" is just a morph for the base G9 figure, so it's not as if you're forced to use G9 Feminine
I can't speak for others, but personally I won't be using the Masculine or Feminine base morph for any of my figures. I'll simply reverse-deform the morph back out once I've got the nipple position, and take it from there. Every character I create will be 100% void of the Masculine and Feminine base.
I will say though, that the problem you describe could be down to vendors using those base morphs. I have a suspicion that just because Daz provided a Masculine and Feminine base, they vendors feel they have to use it in order to define Male and Female. It would certainly explain the issue you speak of.
But that issue has nothing to do with the base geometry, because if anything, the G9 base geometry forces the person who is sculpting from the sexless G9 base, to have to completely define the shape and sex themselves (which is a good thing).
It's no different with the face. TIme and time again I see people complaining about certain vendors characters all looking the same with only slight variation between them. And I agree, this is often true, but that has nothig to do with the base geometry and everything to do with the vendor.
Polygons and vertices are polygons and vertices, they have no inherent bias, so any bias you see is completely down to the vendor, not the geometry. If anything, the geometry of G8 is way more 'preset' in terms of definition and placement of features, than G9 could ever be, so again, the issue you raise, while being a valid one, is more than likely down to the vendors basing their characters on the same Feminine base morph, than it is about the G9 geometry itself.
Karma: 1,944
15 Hours agoBut "G9 Feminine" is just a morph for the base G9 figure, so it's not as if you're forced to use G9 Feminine
I can't speak for others, but personally I won't be using the Masculine or Feminine base morph for any of my figures. I'll simply reverse-deform the morph back out once I've got the nipple position, and take it from there. Every character I create will be 100% void of the Masculine and Feminine base.
I will say though, that the problem you describe could be down to vendors using those base morphs. I have a suspicion that just because Daz provided a Masculine and Feminine base, they vendors feel they have to use it in order to define Male and Female. It would certainly explain the issue you speak of.
But that issue has nothing to do with the base geometry, because if anything, the G9 base geometry forces the person who is sculpting from the sexless G9 base, to have to completely define the shape and sex themselves (which is a good thing).
It's no different with the face. TIme and time again I see people complaining about certain vendors characters all looking the same with only slight variation between them. And I agree, this is often true, but that has nothig to do with the base geometry and everything to do with the vendor.
Polygons and vertices are polygons and vertices, they have no inherent bias, so any bias you see is completely down to the vendor, not the geometry. If anything, the geometry of G8 is way more 'preset' in terms of definition and placement of features, than G9 could ever be, so again, the issue you raise, while being a valid one, is more than likely down to the vendors basing their characters on the same Feminine base morph, than it is about the G9 geometry itself.
Masterstroke
All you're saying sounds pretty correct to me.
As I said, sculpting G9 seems harder to me.
(My workflow is usually to set the transform parameters of the body parts, in order to set the proportions, then go to zbrush and shape some details.
After loading all of it as a FBM, I use "Shape Rigger Plus" for rigging to shape.
Adding custom JCMs is last.)
Karma: 3,862
14 Hours agoAll you're saying sounds pretty correct to me.
As I said, sculpting G9 seems harder to me.
(My workflow is usually to set the transform parameters of the body parts, in order to set the proportions, then go to zbrush and shape some details.
After loading all of it as a FBM, I use "Shape Rigger Plus" for rigging to shape.
Adding custom JCMs is last.)
terrancew_hod
Karma: 170
11 Hours agoI think every generation that comes out everyone says the same thing. I've been playing with Daz figures since V4/M4 and it's not really been that difficult for each generation. G9 has been a little easier since the eyes and mouth are separate, so they aren't warping when you are making your morphs. And if you are sculpting, just have to use either the UV that shows the male or female markers so you know how your sculpting will affect an area.
terrancew_hod
Karma: 170
11 Hours ago@COMIXIANT: your post needs a like button.
The base male and female morphs are a base point to start your sculpts, particularly if you want them to work better with pose products. The male and female morphs have different proportion from the base G9, so you can start with the base genesis and make your characters.
"TIme and time again I see people complaining about certain vendors characters all looking the same with only slight variation between them. And I agree, this is often true, but that has nothig to do with the base geometry and everything to do with the vendor."
I would chalk that up to each person artistic interpretation and style. And for a vendor's products, generally they're all going to fit that same style, thus it looks the same. I would think even when someone is making a sculpt from a reference, the end result will still have a bit of the vendor's stysle.
The base male and female morphs are a base point to start your sculpts, particularly if you want them to work better with pose products. The male and female morphs have different proportion from the base G9, so you can start with the base genesis and make your characters.
"TIme and time again I see people complaining about certain vendors characters all looking the same with only slight variation between them. And I agree, this is often true, but that has nothig to do with the base geometry and everything to do with the vendor."
I would chalk that up to each person artistic interpretation and style. And for a vendor's products, generally they're all going to fit that same style, thus it looks the same. I would think even when someone is making a sculpt from a reference, the end result will still have a bit of the vendor's stysle.
COMIXIANT
If they ever implement a "Like" button system on the forum, I'm out of here
They're the most toxic invention ever devised, the current state of society being all the evidence you'll ever need!
Karma: 1,944
9 Hours agoIf they ever implement a "Like" button system on the forum, I'm out of here
They're the most toxic invention ever devised, the current state of society being all the evidence you'll ever need!
terrancew_hod
Karma: 170
7 Hours agoImma need you to properly accept this compliment, because I don't give them out often! 
The more time goes by, the less I like G9 & I wasn't impressed at the get go.
G8 is still the go to for me.
I try to be open minded about things, if / when we get G10 I sincerely hope it will be G10F & G10M rather than another fudged, poorly optimised androgenous base.
:0/
G8 is still the go to for me.
I try to be open minded about things, if / when we get G10 I sincerely hope it will be G10F & G10M rather than another fudged, poorly optimised androgenous base.
:0/
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G9 has been my first choice ever since it came out! I immediately noticed its greater potential! Even the first few characters were already better than those from G8/1! I still use both, but I'm more interested in buying characters and clothing for G9!
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Masterstroke
Karma: 3,862
Fri, Oct 17What else is its greater potential, aside from beter expressions?
AlfRaMusic
Karma: 13,108
Sat, Oct 18The figure and the characters created for it look much more natural! That alone convinced me!
terrancew_hod
Karma: 170
11 Hours agoFor me the biggest change was the proportions/height of G9 vs G8. I did a character at the beginning of the G9 generation that had a dial that make the figure more in line with G8 but G9 has more natural proportions so I left the dial out in later products.
For me, the facets of G9 that show up as an improvement, are marginal at best, & are more than offset by its shortcomings. :0/
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It's 8.
And I don't mean 8.1 either. 8.1 has has a few facial expression options that 8 doesn't, but I still don't see why they couldn't have just applied that to 8. It's hard to make 8's eyes open "wide", but 8.1 has this thing where, when certain faces are applied, you can't get the figure to close its eyes properly. 8.1's eyelashes have a tendency to do weird distorty things when you apply facial expressions too.
So it's 8.
I have yet to have anyone explain to me any problem with 8 that 9 solves. And 9 is a pain in the nuts when you try to use its hair on 8. If you fit 9 hair onto 8 and try to apply a different hair color, it bonks at you because it's coded to only look for a G9 figure. Pure enshittification.
And I don't mean 8.1 either. 8.1 has has a few facial expression options that 8 doesn't, but I still don't see why they couldn't have just applied that to 8. It's hard to make 8's eyes open "wide", but 8.1 has this thing where, when certain faces are applied, you can't get the figure to close its eyes properly. 8.1's eyelashes have a tendency to do weird distorty things when you apply facial expressions too.
So it's 8.
I have yet to have anyone explain to me any problem with 8 that 9 solves. And 9 is a pain in the nuts when you try to use its hair on 8. If you fit 9 hair onto 8 and try to apply a different hair color, it bonks at you because it's coded to only look for a G9 figure. Pure enshittification.
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