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GLBWhy is Genesis 9 so bad?
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DarksealThu, Mar 19
MasterstrokeThu, Mar 19
DarksealThu, Mar 19
DarksealThu, Mar 19
JackolanternWed, Mar 18
MasterstrokeWed, Mar 18
BobbWed, Mar 18
evarestWed, Mar 18
Daz thinks we'll eat whatever they cooks, but the Genesis 9 mesh is terrible. Every mesh texture needs a reference point, but the Genesis 9 reference point... yes, there are no nipples, I've lost count of how many Genesis 9 products with misaligned textures I've bought, and I can see the artist's suffering in all of them. Even subdiv can't save this awful mesh.
Ego is a very dangerous disease. Daz tasted it once, I hope he doesn't repeat it.
Ego is a very dangerous disease. Daz tasted it once, I hope he doesn't repeat it.
! REPORT
Who knows what they will do? Three companies own/are invested in Tafi who of course owns Daz. Two of them seem more interested in development than draining the assets and sellng off for profit like private equity firms. One of the three is referred to as a private equity firm. Hopefully the two companies that are geared more toward development will see the light and correct the mistakes made with G9. I only buy G9 from specific vendors and so far, so good. But I don't do a lot of nudes and I'm not interested in making content. I just like to make art, so I use whatever works best for the image I'm visulizing in my head.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,294
Thu, Feb 05You've hit it on the head! These equity firms don't care about the company or the people invested in it, both employees and customers. They will implement any manner of practice that brings a short term profit AND pumps up the stock price. When they figure the stock price has peaked, they sell it all off then walk away as the company collapses.
Keep ALL versions of Studio and make sure you backup your content. When Daz goes under you'll still be able to 'play dolls.'
Keep ALL versions of Studio and make sure you backup your content. When Daz goes under you'll still be able to 'play dolls.'
I'm hoping Daz releases either an improved update to 9 or better yet a new character generation that works better. Personally I find G8.1 the best character generation to date.
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Pastil
Karma: 750
Thu, Feb 05Absolutely. DAZ is pushing artists to create Genesis 9 content, but creating a human figure from a cube is really difficult.
G3 Renderworks
Karma: 3,437
Thu, Feb 05I bought into G9 and slowly started realizing it wasn't that great. I agree with you that 8.1 was peak.
The Daz figure technology, as it operates inside the Daz studio software, has hit a technological plateau with Daz Genesis version 8.
Everything after that has been an ornamental update to fool people into buying new content for the so-called "new figure."
When Daz first split the original Genesis one figure into male and female bases (G2), many people complained that was just a cynical ruse to force you into buying male and female versions of the clothing and accessories.
Daz justified the split by alleging that the vendors were " complaining " that it was too difficult to model clothing that effectively morphed from male to female anatomy in the chest area.
Yet here we are, years later with another unisex base figure whose chest anatomy is arguably worse requiring you to have Geograft for proper nipple anatomy.
Daz has run out of ideas for their Genesis figures and the vendors have run out of ideas for content.
The fact that they have finally resorted to various rentware schemes, it's all the proof you need that their grift has reached its logical conclusion and is no longer able to extract income from a loyalist user base by forcing them to effectively re-buy their contented libraries every few years when they release a so-called new
( incompatible.) figure base.
Everything after that has been an ornamental update to fool people into buying new content for the so-called "new figure."
When Daz first split the original Genesis one figure into male and female bases (G2), many people complained that was just a cynical ruse to force you into buying male and female versions of the clothing and accessories.
Daz justified the split by alleging that the vendors were " complaining " that it was too difficult to model clothing that effectively morphed from male to female anatomy in the chest area.
Yet here we are, years later with another unisex base figure whose chest anatomy is arguably worse requiring you to have Geograft for proper nipple anatomy.
Daz has run out of ideas for their Genesis figures and the vendors have run out of ideas for content.
The fact that they have finally resorted to various rentware schemes, it's all the proof you need that their grift has reached its logical conclusion and is no longer able to extract income from a loyalist user base by forcing them to effectively re-buy their contented libraries every few years when they release a so-called new
( incompatible.) figure base.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,294
Thu, Feb 05I don't understand how anyone can run out of ideas. Look through any clothing or designer's site, look at the vintage clothing blogs, there's a mountain of gorgeous clothes waiting to be made. My blog alone has just over 55,000 scans of clothes from the 70's to the mid 90's.
Architecture! Holy snapping bumholes Batman! How many buildings from different eras of history are screaming to be brought to life?
I think we have enough dilapidated, destroyed and post apocalyptic scenes now. Lets get some nice places. Truform from Rendo and his own site are one of the few artists making great buildings for our 'dolls' to play in.
Now, Sick-n-twisted'Otica....they've run out of ideas, you can only have sex so many ways and you can only (-heavily censored-) a person so many ways.
Architecture! Holy snapping bumholes Batman! How many buildings from different eras of history are screaming to be brought to life?
I think we have enough dilapidated, destroyed and post apocalyptic scenes now. Lets get some nice places. Truform from Rendo and his own site are one of the few artists making great buildings for our 'dolls' to play in.
Now, Sick-n-twisted'Otica....they've run out of ideas, you can only have sex so many ways and you can only (-heavily censored-) a person so many ways.
MKDAWUSS
Karma: 67,069
Thu, Feb 05We have some people here who do their parts (large and small) when it comes to locations and such. The nice thing is that they aren't dependent on a base figure so they can last multiple generations, though everything will show its age eventually.
Genesis 9 needs an official chest geograft that can smoothly morph across masculine, true-neutral, and feminine forms if it's really meant to be the "ultimate unisex" figure they keep selling it as. It also desperately needs a new face system, FACS aged almost immediately, and custom expression morphs are basically mandatory now to avoid that uncanny look.
I shouldn't have to rely on nipple and navel geografts or crank SubD to level 4 or 5 just for basic anatomy to appear.
And if Genesis 10 ever happens, I fully expect it to be a glorified Genesis 9, split back into male and female again, so my expectations are… low.
I shouldn't have to rely on nipple and navel geografts or crank SubD to level 4 or 5 just for basic anatomy to appear.
And if Genesis 10 ever happens, I fully expect it to be a glorified Genesis 9, split back into male and female again, so my expectations are… low.
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thirdeyezennicai
Karma: 24,196
Thu, Mar 12if they do split back into male and female again, I hope they have a unisex figure but done much more properly this time as someone who likes making androgynous characters.
Genesis 9 is very displeasing to me in that regards.
Genesis 9 is very displeasing to me in that regards.
Masterstroke
Karma: 4,842
Fri, Mar 13A solution could be male and female base figures, that share the same mesh design.
Like back in old Poser days with DAZ's Stephanie 1 and Michael 1.
Like back in old Poser days with DAZ's Stephanie 1 and Michael 1.
@Bobb
If I had to guess, I would say that the Reason that vendors are not doing 19th
Or even early 20th century period clothing and building structures is because
of a lack of skill and the few people who might actually buy it , are the same ones who would heavily criticize it for not having been historically accurate.
Postmodern, historically neutral or generic fantasy sci-fi content is usually the safest bet to appeal to the largest number of people.
The prefab 3D content market is largely dead , (outside of the gaming industry, which is also struggling.)
as a zDaz vendor you're better off learning some basic programming or scripting and coming up with an actual utility that solves an existing problem not being handled by the core software features.
seeing how the latest build of Daz studio completely reset the board, by breaking most of the existing third party plugins ,this would be a good time to learn how to start writing and selling new scripts for the newest version of Daz studio
( Assuming there's an actual useful and updated. SDK.)
If I had to guess, I would say that the Reason that vendors are not doing 19th
Or even early 20th century period clothing and building structures is because
of a lack of skill and the few people who might actually buy it , are the same ones who would heavily criticize it for not having been historically accurate.
Postmodern, historically neutral or generic fantasy sci-fi content is usually the safest bet to appeal to the largest number of people.
The prefab 3D content market is largely dead , (outside of the gaming industry, which is also struggling.)
as a zDaz vendor you're better off learning some basic programming or scripting and coming up with an actual utility that solves an existing problem not being handled by the core software features.
seeing how the latest build of Daz studio completely reset the board, by breaking most of the existing third party plugins ,this would be a good time to learn how to start writing and selling new scripts for the newest version of Daz studio
( Assuming there's an actual useful and updated. SDK.)
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Bobb
Karma: 1,294
Fri, Feb 06You're right about people complaining that this or that aspect of some historical item was wrong. I'd forgotten that point.
I doubt that we'll ever see Studio 5 or 6 or whatever they'll call it. It's been a good 3 years since DazRaub announced Studio 5 and since then we've seen nothing but an alpha. I know that the Tafi cancer has cut Daz to the bone and that sales are half(?) of what they used to be. The cashflow and stock value aren't what they expected so I'll just bet that Daz gets sold.
I've said this often enough...keep ALL versions of Studio that you have and backup your content. when the whole thing collapses, we'll still be able to play dolls.
I doubt that we'll ever see Studio 5 or 6 or whatever they'll call it. It's been a good 3 years since DazRaub announced Studio 5 and since then we've seen nothing but an alpha. I know that the Tafi cancer has cut Daz to the bone and that sales are half(?) of what they used to be. The cashflow and stock value aren't what they expected so I'll just bet that Daz gets sold.
I've said this often enough...keep ALL versions of Studio that you have and backup your content. when the whole thing collapses, we'll still be able to play dolls.
As a seller my G9 products tend to sell more, as of these few months atleast.
I'm not a complete fan with how G9 was made, also posing with it bugs out so much more than G8 does.
Not to mention it can be so heavy to render.
I'm hoping G10 comes in clutch.
I'm not a complete fan with how G9 was made, also posing with it bugs out so much more than G8 does.
Not to mention it can be so heavy to render.
I'm hoping G10 comes in clutch.
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not a big fan of the garbage rubber hose topology, roughly 2x the vertex count in the base mesh for no reason whatsoever if they were going to lean into 4-5 levels of subdivision like this. also it's just plain not rigged as well as G8, the knees and hips in particular don't bend as well. the androgynous base morph was also a bad idea, it makes creating clothing and morphs take extra work to do for objectively worse results. prime example of profit motivation conflicting with quality.
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G9 at base relotution is managable for extras populating a scene, when you use scene optimizer.
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Excessive
Karma: 12,144
Fri, Feb 06that's not an advantage, that's working around a significant disadvantage
Masterstroke
Karma: 4,842
Fri, Feb 06For sure not an advantage.
The ONLY real advantage of G9 are expressions.
The ONLY real advantage of G9 are expressions.
Smith Micro made same mistake that allowed DAZ3D to rise to number one. Many of us remember the vision that propelled DAZ Studios to success. Now, either Unreal Metahuman or iClone will take its place. All the hard work we put in in between will be wasted.
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Masterstroke
Karma: 4,842
Sun, Feb 08Yup, the mistake has been "Poser 11".
No value to upgrade and it has gotten worse since then.
Iclone/CharacterCreator is there, wher Poser should have been.
Smith Micro and Bondware have killed Poser.
Does anybody remember, what a huge step up the upgrade from Poser 4Pro to Poser 5 has been? (aside from pretty buggy as always with Poser)
No value to upgrade and it has gotten worse since then.
Iclone/CharacterCreator is there, wher Poser should have been.
Smith Micro and Bondware have killed Poser.
Does anybody remember, what a huge step up the upgrade from Poser 4Pro to Poser 5 has been? (aside from pretty buggy as always with Poser)
Bobb
Karma: 1,294
Sun, Feb 08*chuckle* I still have a copy (a REAL paper book!) of 'Figure Creation with Poser 5' by B.L. Render.
Darkseal
Karma: 3,839
Tue, Mar 17HAHA, I've got that too, it's amazing and stil works just fine in Poser.
Well to their credit, Bondware did deliver on their promise of a new "Dynamic cloth System"
for Poser 14
https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2997795/posercloth
for Poser 14
https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2997795/posercloth
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Bobb
Karma: 1,294
Sun, Feb 08I just read the thread and it's not getting much love. The fact that the engine is FOSS and available on GitHub has also stirred some hackles.
Bobb
Karma: 1,294
Mon, Feb 09That thread gets nastier and of course, someone brought up draping in Marvellous Designer.
That old VWD was also mentioned. I seem to remember playing with it some years back and thought it was pretty good.
That old VWD was also mentioned. I seem to remember playing with it some years back and thought it was pretty good.
Reading the thread lays bare the sad reality of the state of the poser clothing market.
It would seem that there are nearly no vendors actually creating conformers for the recent stable of crowd sourced poser native figures and the few that remained have been depending entirely on dynamic draping clothing instead.
And it would appear that this new system is not entirely compatible with people's existing collections dynamic clothing made for the older cloth engine without significant manual correction.
This effectively makes poser 14
(even with this new dynamic cloth engine)
a hard reset of the, already abysmal, poser native clothing market.
It would seem that there are nearly no vendors actually creating conformers for the recent stable of crowd sourced poser native figures and the few that remained have been depending entirely on dynamic draping clothing instead.
And it would appear that this new system is not entirely compatible with people's existing collections dynamic clothing made for the older cloth engine without significant manual correction.
This effectively makes poser 14
(even with this new dynamic cloth engine)
a hard reset of the, already abysmal, poser native clothing market.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,294
Mon, Feb 09I wonder what happened to VWD. They had a Studio version that worked then the whole thing died.
VWD Appears to still available for purchase
but only supports Poser 11 and below.
Could be that the development stagnated after Poser 12 & higher switched to python 3
https://www.virtualworlddynamics.net/
in my opinion, a dynamic cloth engine is always nice, however it is not the solution to the lack of an active conforming clothing content creators knowledge base for poser.
There are so many styles of clothing, (particularly for males) and in the sci fi and cyberpunk genre, where you really need close-fitting and even rigid body type clothing such as armors and military gear etc., where dynamic clothing is really not a suitable solution.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,294
Mon, Feb 09Thanks for the link, I'd forgotten all about it and never thought to check Rendo. It's still in the 2019 release so I'm going to ask them if they plan on updating it.
Well, if it's going to be functional in any version of poser after poser 11, it will have to be completely rewritten in python 3.
The developer didn't do this ,in the intervening years, for poser 12 or 13.
So I wouldn't invest too much hope that he's going to do it for poser 14, all things considered.
The developer didn't do this ,in the intervening years, for poser 12 or 13.
So I wouldn't invest too much hope that he's going to do it for poser 14, all things considered.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,294
Tue, Feb 10Their last Patreon post mentions the programmer (Gerald) having eye problems and unable to work.
This was two years ago so I'm considering it dead.
This was two years ago so I'm considering it dead.
I honestly don't know if Genesis 9 is bad or good - I've never used it. DAZ threw so much stuff at us at the same time, I had no desire to take it up. I have a 3 TB library of DAZ stuff, I didn't need a whole new generation to throw on top of it and I didn't see anything in Genesis 9 that made Genesis 8 obsolete. Apparently neither did a number of other people.
Genesis 9 came out in October of 2021, the fact we are still discussing it in February of 2026, over four years later, tells what a resounding success it wasn't.
The fact that even in the official DAZ store they are making clothes that fit both Genesis 9 and a four year old "obsolete" Genesis 8 should speak volumes too.
Wildfang Outfit for Genesis 9 and 8 Female dForce Optional
dForce Frontier Outfit for Genesis 9 and Genesis 8 Female
At this point though they really need to get Daz Studio 2025 finished and out the door before the announce Genesis 10. Which has to be coming, it may well be at the same time. New, Improved! Now with separate male and female figures!
Genesis 9 came out in October of 2021, the fact we are still discussing it in February of 2026, over four years later, tells what a resounding success it wasn't.
The fact that even in the official DAZ store they are making clothes that fit both Genesis 9 and a four year old "obsolete" Genesis 8 should speak volumes too.
Wildfang Outfit for Genesis 9 and 8 Female dForce Optional
dForce Frontier Outfit for Genesis 9 and Genesis 8 Female
At this point though they really need to get Daz Studio 2025 finished and out the door before the announce Genesis 10. Which has to be coming, it may well be at the same time. New, Improved! Now with separate male and female figures!
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! REPORT
Genesis 9 was a solution to a" problem" that did not actually exist.
The Daz figure technology, as it operates inside Daz studio, has reached a technological plateau for still image creation.
There is still plenty of room to add new features to the Daz Genesis figures for professional character animation.
But that would require adding the accompanying core features to the Daz Studio software itself to support an advanced character for animation.
However, Daz obviously sees no value in such an undertaking as the user base has shown little interest in creating 3D character animated films.
And even if they did ,the fact that Daz is committed to an extremely outdated and slow brute force path tracer, in NVIDIA,
Iray, makes using Daz studio for any type of serious character animation productions an absolute non-starter.
Perhaps long time vendors are seeing the writing on the wall
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/755491/oso3d-closure#latest
The Daz figure technology, as it operates inside Daz studio, has reached a technological plateau for still image creation.
There is still plenty of room to add new features to the Daz Genesis figures for professional character animation.
But that would require adding the accompanying core features to the Daz Studio software itself to support an advanced character for animation.
However, Daz obviously sees no value in such an undertaking as the user base has shown little interest in creating 3D character animated films.
And even if they did ,the fact that Daz is committed to an extremely outdated and slow brute force path tracer, in NVIDIA,
Iray, makes using Daz studio for any type of serious character animation productions an absolute non-starter.
Perhaps long time vendors are seeing the writing on the wall
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/755491/oso3d-closure#latest
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! REPORT
I hope developers on this site are reading this!
I stopped visiting DAZ because all new stuff is G9. I do all of my purchases HERE because new G8 stuff is being offered.
I stopped visiting DAZ because all new stuff is G9. I do all of my purchases HERE because new G8 stuff is being offered.
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Don't worry, they will fix all of that in Genesis 10, the promise. Now buy everything you love over again please, Free Daz software commands you.
I won't really know anything about that though, I'm still using V4 in Poser.
I won't really know anything about that though, I'm still using V4 in Poser.
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evarest
Karma: 214
Wed, Mar 18Seeing how abandoned, low-effort, and uninspired almost every product feels on the official marketplace, I’ve reached a point where I have no real hope left for G10, or for anything genuinely worth releasing.
We don’t have the variety we had with G8/8.1, and we’re already stuck in a loop of the same Instagram female characters and impractical underwear over and over again. It feels like the passion is just gone.
And even if something worthwhile does come along, it’ll likely be rare and overpriced, with features broken up into multiple smaller products.
We don’t have the variety we had with G8/8.1, and we’re already stuck in a loop of the same Instagram female characters and impractical underwear over and over again. It feels like the passion is just gone.
And even if something worthwhile does come along, it’ll likely be rare and overpriced, with features broken up into multiple smaller products.
Bobb
Karma: 1,294
Wed, Mar 18I'm also still a big user of good ole Vicky Fourpointtwoplusplus. she loads fast, is light on the system so I can add a bunch of girls and dress them up. She has a closet busting wardrobe that all the Genesis bimbos together can't match plus stuff that no other figure has. From excellent lingerie and shoes to jewellery, and let's not forget her expressions and poses.
Masterstroke
Karma: 4,842
Wed, Mar 18Quote:
"Don't worry, they will fix all of that in Genesis 10, the promise. Now buy everything you love over again please, Free Daz software commands you.
I won't really know anything about that though, I'm still using V4 in Poser."
This "razorblade" buisiness model is true for DAZ Studio users AND Poser users.
In this, there is absolutely no difference for both branches.
The only one big difference is, that the DAZ studio base program is free and Poser is at least a 150 bucks.
Poser hasn't changed much since Poser 11 and still they charge you for new versions.
I never liked V4. DAZ figures became useful with Genesis 3 and 8.
Genesis 9 is pretty much useless, for it brings nothing new to the table, that could not have been introduced as an add on to Genesis 8.
A possible Genesis 10 had to have significant improvement, that would also require to have an update to DAZ studio itself, in order to make sense.
I am thinking of soft body tissue simulation, additional face groups with additional bones.
I don't think, that this is going to happen, for DAZ might more be focusing on a standard rigging, that support migrating to other apps -eg.
Unreal, Blender or Max, instead of being inventive.
"Don't worry, they will fix all of that in Genesis 10, the promise. Now buy everything you love over again please, Free Daz software commands you.
I won't really know anything about that though, I'm still using V4 in Poser."
This "razorblade" buisiness model is true for DAZ Studio users AND Poser users.
In this, there is absolutely no difference for both branches.
The only one big difference is, that the DAZ studio base program is free and Poser is at least a 150 bucks.
Poser hasn't changed much since Poser 11 and still they charge you for new versions.
I never liked V4. DAZ figures became useful with Genesis 3 and 8.
Genesis 9 is pretty much useless, for it brings nothing new to the table, that could not have been introduced as an add on to Genesis 8.
A possible Genesis 10 had to have significant improvement, that would also require to have an update to DAZ studio itself, in order to make sense.
I am thinking of soft body tissue simulation, additional face groups with additional bones.
I don't think, that this is going to happen, for DAZ might more be focusing on a standard rigging, that support migrating to other apps -eg.
Unreal, Blender or Max, instead of being inventive.
Darkseal
Karma: 3,839
Thu, Mar 19Very true. I myself have purchased many poser version but have found that Poser 11 pro is the best version and have chosen not to buy any version tied to renderosity (I do have version 12). 11 pro is the most stable with all the features available. I only updated in case there were features that I could use to provide services to the marketplace when making figures and props. At the end of the day I find the weight maps a waste of time on most figures. V4/M4 have been the best imo, and there is no need to go past those once you stack on / make JCM's to fix what needs to be fixed. Sure, maps made later on for later genesis figure look good, but that same effort can/has been put into v4 maps as well.
The G10 was a joke obviously. If G 5,6,7,8,9 hasn't dissuaded people from buying everything all over again and again then I'm sure everyone will just love G10.
Poser already has softbody simulation, has for over a decade I think, I dunno... time flies. I think that came in around the same time as SSS and hard body simulation. Probably version 9, maybe even 8. I've been making a few figures with additional face bones for about 8-10 years too, since it's so easy inside Poser. Yes, Poser charges for new versions, but it really doesn't mean you have to upgrade, just like no one needs to buy G10 skins and clothing and morph packs and hair etc... Once you pimp out one figure you're at the cost of software, so it can be a wash. iRay is probably what puts Daz a step above right now. I just wish the support for RTX 5 series was better for all of these programs. At this point I might as well be exporting to Blender. I have imported to Unreal, it's amazing to have fun with figures in real time, rigged with moves walking around.....
The G10 was a joke obviously. If G 5,6,7,8,9 hasn't dissuaded people from buying everything all over again and again then I'm sure everyone will just love G10.
Poser already has softbody simulation, has for over a decade I think, I dunno... time flies. I think that came in around the same time as SSS and hard body simulation. Probably version 9, maybe even 8. I've been making a few figures with additional face bones for about 8-10 years too, since it's so easy inside Poser. Yes, Poser charges for new versions, but it really doesn't mean you have to upgrade, just like no one needs to buy G10 skins and clothing and morph packs and hair etc... Once you pimp out one figure you're at the cost of software, so it can be a wash. iRay is probably what puts Daz a step above right now. I just wish the support for RTX 5 series was better for all of these programs. At this point I might as well be exporting to Blender. I have imported to Unreal, it's amazing to have fun with figures in real time, rigged with moves walking around.....
It's almost as if G9 was designed specifically to stifle competition. It pretty much relies on HD details, which are not accessible outside of DAZ ( theoretically ). Whereas users would previously be able to buy detail morph packs to make their own character, now it's 'head and body' only. Not sure if the PA's had some input in the G9 design decisions, but wherever it came from it was bad advice IMHO. Rather than stifle competition it has made DAZ Studio less friendly overall.
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Darkseal
Karma: 3,839
Thu, Mar 19Poser can do HD details, you just use a slider to get a more dense mesh and then make morphs for the higher res mesh... It's been there for the last 11-12 years
Masterstroke
Karma: 4,842
Thu, Mar 19Very true. Poser has actually 3 features, to be envy of, as a DS user:
HD details for everyone,
a morph brush for everyone
and a dependency editor with nodes and graphs.
HD details for everyone,
a morph brush for everyone
and a dependency editor with nodes and graphs.
Darkseal
Karma: 3,839
Thu, Mar 19I also like the way Poser saves items and figures to the library. To this day I have no idea what I am supposed to do to save a prop or figure to the library, when I try the resulting file is tiny and have no idea if it is all self contained. Saving in daz doesn't let me use in poser, while saving in poser lets me use in daz. There are other things, but nothing I use as much as creating new figures and saving to distribute to the market.