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GLBWhy is Genesis 9 so bad?
423Thread Activity
AnabranTue, Feb 10
diogenese19348Tue, Feb 10
BobbTue, Feb 10
AnabranMon, Feb 09
BobbMon, Feb 09
AnabranMon, Feb 09
Daz thinks we'll eat whatever they cooks, but the Genesis 9 mesh is terrible. Every mesh texture needs a reference point, but the Genesis 9 reference point... yes, there are no nipples, I've lost count of how many Genesis 9 products with misaligned textures I've bought, and I can see the artist's suffering in all of them. Even subdiv can't save this awful mesh.
Ego is a very dangerous disease. Daz tasted it once, I hope he doesn't repeat it.
Ego is a very dangerous disease. Daz tasted it once, I hope he doesn't repeat it.
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Who knows what they will do? Three companies own/are invested in Tafi who of course owns Daz. Two of them seem more interested in development than draining the assets and sellng off for profit like private equity firms. One of the three is referred to as a private equity firm. Hopefully the two companies that are geared more toward development will see the light and correct the mistakes made with G9. I only buy G9 from specific vendors and so far, so good. But I don't do a lot of nudes and I'm not interested in making content. I just like to make art, so I use whatever works best for the image I'm visulizing in my head.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,106
Thu, Feb 05You've hit it on the head! These equity firms don't care about the company or the people invested in it, both employees and customers. They will implement any manner of practice that brings a short term profit AND pumps up the stock price. When they figure the stock price has peaked, they sell it all off then walk away as the company collapses.
Keep ALL versions of Studio and make sure you backup your content. When Daz goes under you'll still be able to 'play dolls.'
Keep ALL versions of Studio and make sure you backup your content. When Daz goes under you'll still be able to 'play dolls.'
I'm hoping Daz releases either an improved update to 9 or better yet a new character generation that works better. Personally I find G8.1 the best character generation to date.
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Pastil
Karma: 725
Thu, Feb 05Absolutely. DAZ is pushing artists to create Genesis 9 content, but creating a human figure from a cube is really difficult.
G3 Renderworks
Karma: 3,224
Thu, Feb 05I bought into G9 and slowly started realizing it wasn't that great. I agree with you that 8.1 was peak.
The Daz figure technology, as it operates inside the Daz studio software, has hit a technological plateau with Daz Genesis version 8.
Everything after that has been an ornamental update to fool people into buying new content for the so-called "new figure."
When Daz first split the original Genesis one figure into male and female bases (G2), many people complained that was just a cynical ruse to force you into buying male and female versions of the clothing and accessories.
Daz justified the split by alleging that the vendors were " complaining " that it was too difficult to model clothing that effectively morphed from male to female anatomy in the chest area.
Yet here we are, years later with another unisex base figure whose chest anatomy is arguably worse requiring you to have Geograft for proper nipple anatomy.
Daz has run out of ideas for their Genesis figures and the vendors have run out of ideas for content.
The fact that they have finally resorted to various rentware schemes, it's all the proof you need that their grift has reached its logical conclusion and is no longer able to extract income from a loyalist user base by forcing them to effectively re-buy their contented libraries every few years when they release a so-called new
( incompatible.) figure base.
Everything after that has been an ornamental update to fool people into buying new content for the so-called "new figure."
When Daz first split the original Genesis one figure into male and female bases (G2), many people complained that was just a cynical ruse to force you into buying male and female versions of the clothing and accessories.
Daz justified the split by alleging that the vendors were " complaining " that it was too difficult to model clothing that effectively morphed from male to female anatomy in the chest area.
Yet here we are, years later with another unisex base figure whose chest anatomy is arguably worse requiring you to have Geograft for proper nipple anatomy.
Daz has run out of ideas for their Genesis figures and the vendors have run out of ideas for content.
The fact that they have finally resorted to various rentware schemes, it's all the proof you need that their grift has reached its logical conclusion and is no longer able to extract income from a loyalist user base by forcing them to effectively re-buy their contented libraries every few years when they release a so-called new
( incompatible.) figure base.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,106
Thu, Feb 05I don't understand how anyone can run out of ideas. Look through any clothing or designer's site, look at the vintage clothing blogs, there's a mountain of gorgeous clothes waiting to be made. My blog alone has just over 55,000 scans of clothes from the 70's to the mid 90's.
Architecture! Holy snapping bumholes Batman! How many buildings from different eras of history are screaming to be brought to life?
I think we have enough dilapidated, destroyed and post apocalyptic scenes now. Lets get some nice places. Truform from Rendo and his own site are one of the few artists making great buildings for our 'dolls' to play in.
Now, Sick-n-twisted'Otica....they've run out of ideas, you can only have sex so many ways and you can only (-heavily censored-) a person so many ways.
Architecture! Holy snapping bumholes Batman! How many buildings from different eras of history are screaming to be brought to life?
I think we have enough dilapidated, destroyed and post apocalyptic scenes now. Lets get some nice places. Truform from Rendo and his own site are one of the few artists making great buildings for our 'dolls' to play in.
Now, Sick-n-twisted'Otica....they've run out of ideas, you can only have sex so many ways and you can only (-heavily censored-) a person so many ways.
MKDAWUSS
Karma: 61,341
Thu, Feb 05We have some people here who do their parts (large and small) when it comes to locations and such. The nice thing is that they aren't dependent on a base figure so they can last multiple generations, though everything will show its age eventually.
Genesis 9 needs an official chest geograft that can smoothly morph across masculine, true-neutral, and feminine forms if it's really meant to be the "ultimate unisex" figure they keep selling it as. It also desperately needs a new face system, FACS aged almost immediately, and custom expression morphs are basically mandatory now to avoid that uncanny look.
I shouldn't have to rely on nipple and navel geografts or crank SubD to level 4 or 5 just for basic anatomy to appear.
And if Genesis 10 ever happens, I fully expect it to be a glorified Genesis 9, split back into male and female again, so my expectations are… low.
I shouldn't have to rely on nipple and navel geografts or crank SubD to level 4 or 5 just for basic anatomy to appear.
And if Genesis 10 ever happens, I fully expect it to be a glorified Genesis 9, split back into male and female again, so my expectations are… low.
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@Bobb
If I had to guess, I would say that the Reason that vendors are not doing 19th
Or even early 20th century period clothing and building structures is because
of a lack of skill and the few people who might actually buy it , are the same ones who would heavily criticize it for not having been historically accurate.
Postmodern, historically neutral or generic fantasy sci-fi content is usually the safest bet to appeal to the largest number of people.
The prefab 3D content market is largely dead , (outside of the gaming industry, which is also struggling.)
as a zDaz vendor you're better off learning some basic programming or scripting and coming up with an actual utility that solves an existing problem not being handled by the core software features.
seeing how the latest build of Daz studio completely reset the board, by breaking most of the existing third party plugins ,this would be a good time to learn how to start writing and selling new scripts for the newest version of Daz studio
( Assuming there's an actual useful and updated. SDK.)
If I had to guess, I would say that the Reason that vendors are not doing 19th
Or even early 20th century period clothing and building structures is because
of a lack of skill and the few people who might actually buy it , are the same ones who would heavily criticize it for not having been historically accurate.
Postmodern, historically neutral or generic fantasy sci-fi content is usually the safest bet to appeal to the largest number of people.
The prefab 3D content market is largely dead , (outside of the gaming industry, which is also struggling.)
as a zDaz vendor you're better off learning some basic programming or scripting and coming up with an actual utility that solves an existing problem not being handled by the core software features.
seeing how the latest build of Daz studio completely reset the board, by breaking most of the existing third party plugins ,this would be a good time to learn how to start writing and selling new scripts for the newest version of Daz studio
( Assuming there's an actual useful and updated. SDK.)
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Bobb
Karma: 1,106
Fri, Feb 06You're right about people complaining that this or that aspect of some historical item was wrong. I'd forgotten that point.
I doubt that we'll ever see Studio 5 or 6 or whatever they'll call it. It's been a good 3 years since DazRaub announced Studio 5 and since then we've seen nothing but an alpha. I know that the Tafi cancer has cut Daz to the bone and that sales are half(?) of what they used to be. The cashflow and stock value aren't what they expected so I'll just bet that Daz gets sold.
I've said this often enough...keep ALL versions of Studio that you have and backup your content. when the whole thing collapses, we'll still be able to play dolls.
I doubt that we'll ever see Studio 5 or 6 or whatever they'll call it. It's been a good 3 years since DazRaub announced Studio 5 and since then we've seen nothing but an alpha. I know that the Tafi cancer has cut Daz to the bone and that sales are half(?) of what they used to be. The cashflow and stock value aren't what they expected so I'll just bet that Daz gets sold.
I've said this often enough...keep ALL versions of Studio that you have and backup your content. when the whole thing collapses, we'll still be able to play dolls.
As a seller my G9 products tend to sell more, as of these few months atleast.
I'm not a complete fan with how G9 was made, also posing with it bugs out so much more than G8 does.
Not to mention it can be so heavy to render.
I'm hoping G10 comes in clutch.
I'm not a complete fan with how G9 was made, also posing with it bugs out so much more than G8 does.
Not to mention it can be so heavy to render.
I'm hoping G10 comes in clutch.
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not a big fan of the garbage rubber hose topology, roughly 2x the vertex count in the base mesh for no reason whatsoever if they were going to lean into 4-5 levels of subdivision like this. also it's just plain not rigged as well as G8, the knees and hips in particular don't bend as well. the androgynous base morph was also a bad idea, it makes creating clothing and morphs take extra work to do for objectively worse results. prime example of profit motivation conflicting with quality.
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G9 at base relotution is managable for extras populating a scene, when you use scene optimizer.
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Excessive
Karma: 11,788
Fri, Feb 06that's not an advantage, that's working around a significant disadvantage
Masterstroke
Karma: 4,465
Fri, Feb 06For sure not an advantage.
The ONLY real advantage of G9 are expressions.
The ONLY real advantage of G9 are expressions.
Smith Micro made same mistake that allowed DAZ3D to rise to number one. Many of us remember the vision that propelled DAZ Studios to success. Now, either Unreal Metahuman or iClone will take its place. All the hard work we put in in between will be wasted.
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Masterstroke
Karma: 4,465
Sun, Feb 08Yup, the mistake has been "Poser 11".
No value to upgrade and it has gotten worse since then.
Iclone/CharacterCreator is there, wher Poser should have been.
Smith Micro and Bondware have killed Poser.
Does anybody remember, what a huge step up the upgrade from Poser 4Pro to Poser 5 has been? (aside from pretty buggy as always with Poser)
No value to upgrade and it has gotten worse since then.
Iclone/CharacterCreator is there, wher Poser should have been.
Smith Micro and Bondware have killed Poser.
Does anybody remember, what a huge step up the upgrade from Poser 4Pro to Poser 5 has been? (aside from pretty buggy as always with Poser)
Bobb
Karma: 1,106
Sun, Feb 08*chuckle* I still have a copy (a REAL paper book!) of 'Figure Creation with Poser 5' by B.L. Render.
Well to their credit, Bondware did deliver on their promise of a new "Dynamic cloth System"
for Poser 14
https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2997795/posercloth
for Poser 14
https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2997795/posercloth
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Bobb
Karma: 1,106
Sun, Feb 08I just read the thread and it's not getting much love. The fact that the engine is FOSS and available on GitHub has also stirred some hackles.
Bobb
Karma: 1,106
Mon, Feb 09That thread gets nastier and of course, someone brought up draping in Marvellous Designer.
That old VWD was also mentioned. I seem to remember playing with it some years back and thought it was pretty good.
That old VWD was also mentioned. I seem to remember playing with it some years back and thought it was pretty good.
Reading the thread lays bare the sad reality of the state of the poser clothing market.
It would seem that there are nearly no vendors actually creating conformers for the recent stable of crowd sourced poser native figures and the few that remained have been depending entirely on dynamic draping clothing instead.
And it would appear that this new system is not entirely compatible with people's existing collections dynamic clothing made for the older cloth engine without significant manual correction.
This effectively makes poser 14
(even with this new dynamic cloth engine)
a hard reset of the, already abysmal, poser native clothing market.
It would seem that there are nearly no vendors actually creating conformers for the recent stable of crowd sourced poser native figures and the few that remained have been depending entirely on dynamic draping clothing instead.
And it would appear that this new system is not entirely compatible with people's existing collections dynamic clothing made for the older cloth engine without significant manual correction.
This effectively makes poser 14
(even with this new dynamic cloth engine)
a hard reset of the, already abysmal, poser native clothing market.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,106
Mon, Feb 09I wonder what happened to VWD. They had a Studio version that worked then the whole thing died.
VWD Appears to still available for purchase
but only supports Poser 11 and below.
Could be that the development stagnated after Poser 12 & higher switched to python 3
https://www.virtualworlddynamics.net/
in my opinion, a dynamic cloth engine is always nice, however it is not the solution to the lack of an active conforming clothing content creators knowledge base for poser.
There are so many styles of clothing, (particularly for males) and in the sci fi and cyberpunk genre, where you really need close-fitting and even rigid body type clothing such as armors and military gear etc., where dynamic clothing is really not a suitable solution.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,106
Mon, Feb 09Thanks for the link, I'd forgotten all about it and never thought to check Rendo. It's still in the 2019 release so I'm going to ask them if they plan on updating it.
Well, if it's going to be functional in any version of poser after poser 11, it will have to be completely rewritten in python 3.
The developer didn't do this ,in the intervening years, for poser 12 or 13.
So I wouldn't invest too much hope that he's going to do it for poser 14, all things considered.
The developer didn't do this ,in the intervening years, for poser 12 or 13.
So I wouldn't invest too much hope that he's going to do it for poser 14, all things considered.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,106
Tue, Feb 10Their last Patreon post mentions the programmer (Gerald) having eye problems and unable to work.
This was two years ago so I'm considering it dead.
This was two years ago so I'm considering it dead.
I honestly don't know if Genesis 9 is bad or good - I've never used it. DAZ threw so much stuff at us at the same time, I had no desire to take it up. I have a 3 TB library of DAZ stuff, I didn't need a whole new generation to throw on top of it and I didn't see anything in Genesis 9 that made Genesis 8 obsolete. Apparently neither did a number of other people.
Genesis 9 came out in October of 2021, the fact we are still discussing it in February of 2026, over four years later, tells what a resounding success it wasn't.
The fact that even in the official DAZ store they are making clothes that fit both Genesis 9 and a four year old "obsolete" Genesis 8 should speak volumes too.
Wildfang Outfit for Genesis 9 and 8 Female dForce Optional
dForce Frontier Outfit for Genesis 9 and Genesis 8 Female
At this point though they really need to get Daz Studio 2025 finished and out the door before the announce Genesis 10. Which has to be coming, it may well be at the same time. New, Improved! Now with separate male and female figures!
Genesis 9 came out in October of 2021, the fact we are still discussing it in February of 2026, over four years later, tells what a resounding success it wasn't.
The fact that even in the official DAZ store they are making clothes that fit both Genesis 9 and a four year old "obsolete" Genesis 8 should speak volumes too.
Wildfang Outfit for Genesis 9 and 8 Female dForce Optional
dForce Frontier Outfit for Genesis 9 and Genesis 8 Female
At this point though they really need to get Daz Studio 2025 finished and out the door before the announce Genesis 10. Which has to be coming, it may well be at the same time. New, Improved! Now with separate male and female figures!
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Genesis 9 was a solution to a" problem" that did not actually exist.
The Daz figure technology, as it operates inside Daz studio, has reached a technological plateau for still image creation.
There is still plenty of room to add new features to the Daz Genesis figures for professional character animation.
But that would require adding the accompanying core features to the Daz Studio software itself to support an advanced character for animation.
However, Daz obviously sees no value in such an undertaking as the user base has shown little interest in creating 3D character animated films.
And even if they did ,the fact that Daz is committed to an extremely outdated and slow brute force path tracer, in NVIDIA,
Iray, makes using Daz studio for any type of serious character animation productions an absolute non-starter.
Perhaps long time vendors are seeing the writing on the wall
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/755491/oso3d-closure#latest
The Daz figure technology, as it operates inside Daz studio, has reached a technological plateau for still image creation.
There is still plenty of room to add new features to the Daz Genesis figures for professional character animation.
But that would require adding the accompanying core features to the Daz Studio software itself to support an advanced character for animation.
However, Daz obviously sees no value in such an undertaking as the user base has shown little interest in creating 3D character animated films.
And even if they did ,the fact that Daz is committed to an extremely outdated and slow brute force path tracer, in NVIDIA,
Iray, makes using Daz studio for any type of serious character animation productions an absolute non-starter.
Perhaps long time vendors are seeing the writing on the wall
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/755491/oso3d-closure#latest
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