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GLBWhy is Genesis 9 so bad?
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Daz thinks we'll eat whatever they cooks, but the Genesis 9 mesh is terrible. Every mesh texture needs a reference point, but the Genesis 9 reference point... yes, there are no nipples, I've lost count of how many Genesis 9 products with misaligned textures I've bought, and I can see the artist's suffering in all of them. Even subdiv can't save this awful mesh.
Ego is a very dangerous disease. Daz tasted it once, I hope he doesn't repeat it.
Ego is a very dangerous disease. Daz tasted it once, I hope he doesn't repeat it.
! REPORT
Who knows what they will do? Three companies own/are invested in Tafi who of course owns Daz. Two of them seem more interested in development than draining the assets and sellng off for profit like private equity firms. One of the three is referred to as a private equity firm. Hopefully the two companies that are geared more toward development will see the light and correct the mistakes made with G9. I only buy G9 from specific vendors and so far, so good. But I don't do a lot of nudes and I'm not interested in making content. I just like to make art, so I use whatever works best for the image I'm visulizing in my head.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,532
Thu, Feb 05You've hit it on the head! These equity firms don't care about the company or the people invested in it, both employees and customers. They will implement any manner of practice that brings a short term profit AND pumps up the stock price. When they figure the stock price has peaked, they sell it all off then walk away as the company collapses.
Keep ALL versions of Studio and make sure you backup your content. When Daz goes under you'll still be able to 'play dolls.'
Keep ALL versions of Studio and make sure you backup your content. When Daz goes under you'll still be able to 'play dolls.'
I'm hoping Daz releases either an improved update to 9 or better yet a new character generation that works better. Personally I find G8.1 the best character generation to date.
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Pastil
Karma: 763
Thu, Feb 05Absolutely. DAZ is pushing artists to create Genesis 9 content, but creating a human figure from a cube is really difficult.
G3 Renderworks
Karma: 3,539
Thu, Feb 05I bought into G9 and slowly started realizing it wasn't that great. I agree with you that 8.1 was peak.
The Daz figure technology, as it operates inside the Daz studio software, has hit a technological plateau with Daz Genesis version 8.
Everything after that has been an ornamental update to fool people into buying new content for the so-called "new figure."
When Daz first split the original Genesis one figure into male and female bases (G2), many people complained that was just a cynical ruse to force you into buying male and female versions of the clothing and accessories.
Daz justified the split by alleging that the vendors were " complaining " that it was too difficult to model clothing that effectively morphed from male to female anatomy in the chest area.
Yet here we are, years later with another unisex base figure whose chest anatomy is arguably worse requiring you to have Geograft for proper nipple anatomy.
Daz has run out of ideas for their Genesis figures and the vendors have run out of ideas for content.
The fact that they have finally resorted to various rentware schemes, it's all the proof you need that their grift has reached its logical conclusion and is no longer able to extract income from a loyalist user base by forcing them to effectively re-buy their contented libraries every few years when they release a so-called new
( incompatible.) figure base.
Everything after that has been an ornamental update to fool people into buying new content for the so-called "new figure."
When Daz first split the original Genesis one figure into male and female bases (G2), many people complained that was just a cynical ruse to force you into buying male and female versions of the clothing and accessories.
Daz justified the split by alleging that the vendors were " complaining " that it was too difficult to model clothing that effectively morphed from male to female anatomy in the chest area.
Yet here we are, years later with another unisex base figure whose chest anatomy is arguably worse requiring you to have Geograft for proper nipple anatomy.
Daz has run out of ideas for their Genesis figures and the vendors have run out of ideas for content.
The fact that they have finally resorted to various rentware schemes, it's all the proof you need that their grift has reached its logical conclusion and is no longer able to extract income from a loyalist user base by forcing them to effectively re-buy their contented libraries every few years when they release a so-called new
( incompatible.) figure base.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,532
Thu, Feb 05I don't understand how anyone can run out of ideas. Look through any clothing or designer's site, look at the vintage clothing blogs, there's a mountain of gorgeous clothes waiting to be made. My blog alone has just over 55,000 scans of clothes from the 70's to the mid 90's.
Architecture! Holy snapping bumholes Batman! How many buildings from different eras of history are screaming to be brought to life?
I think we have enough dilapidated, destroyed and post apocalyptic scenes now. Lets get some nice places. Truform from Rendo and his own site are one of the few artists making great buildings for our 'dolls' to play in.
Now, Sick-n-twisted'Otica....they've run out of ideas, you can only have sex so many ways and you can only (-heavily censored-) a person so many ways.
Architecture! Holy snapping bumholes Batman! How many buildings from different eras of history are screaming to be brought to life?
I think we have enough dilapidated, destroyed and post apocalyptic scenes now. Lets get some nice places. Truform from Rendo and his own site are one of the few artists making great buildings for our 'dolls' to play in.
Now, Sick-n-twisted'Otica....they've run out of ideas, you can only have sex so many ways and you can only (-heavily censored-) a person so many ways.
MKDAWUSS
Karma: 71,213
Thu, Feb 05We have some people here who do their parts (large and small) when it comes to locations and such. The nice thing is that they aren't dependent on a base figure so they can last multiple generations, though everything will show its age eventually.
Genesis 9 needs an official chest geograft that can smoothly morph across masculine, true-neutral, and feminine forms if it's really meant to be the "ultimate unisex" figure they keep selling it as. It also desperately needs a new face system, FACS aged almost immediately, and custom expression morphs are basically mandatory now to avoid that uncanny look.
I shouldn't have to rely on nipple and navel geografts or crank SubD to level 4 or 5 just for basic anatomy to appear.
And if Genesis 10 ever happens, I fully expect it to be a glorified Genesis 9, split back into male and female again, so my expectations are… low.
I shouldn't have to rely on nipple and navel geografts or crank SubD to level 4 or 5 just for basic anatomy to appear.
And if Genesis 10 ever happens, I fully expect it to be a glorified Genesis 9, split back into male and female again, so my expectations are… low.
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thirdeyezennicai
Karma: 26,085
Thu, Mar 12if they do split back into male and female again, I hope they have a unisex figure but done much more properly this time as someone who likes making androgynous characters.
Genesis 9 is very displeasing to me in that regards.
Genesis 9 is very displeasing to me in that regards.
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,302
Fri, Mar 13A solution could be male and female base figures, that share the same mesh design.
Like back in old Poser days with DAZ's Stephanie 1 and Michael 1.
Like back in old Poser days with DAZ's Stephanie 1 and Michael 1.
@Bobb
If I had to guess, I would say that the Reason that vendors are not doing 19th
Or even early 20th century period clothing and building structures is because
of a lack of skill and the few people who might actually buy it , are the same ones who would heavily criticize it for not having been historically accurate.
Postmodern, historically neutral or generic fantasy sci-fi content is usually the safest bet to appeal to the largest number of people.
The prefab 3D content market is largely dead , (outside of the gaming industry, which is also struggling.)
as a zDaz vendor you're better off learning some basic programming or scripting and coming up with an actual utility that solves an existing problem not being handled by the core software features.
seeing how the latest build of Daz studio completely reset the board, by breaking most of the existing third party plugins ,this would be a good time to learn how to start writing and selling new scripts for the newest version of Daz studio
( Assuming there's an actual useful and updated. SDK.)
If I had to guess, I would say that the Reason that vendors are not doing 19th
Or even early 20th century period clothing and building structures is because
of a lack of skill and the few people who might actually buy it , are the same ones who would heavily criticize it for not having been historically accurate.
Postmodern, historically neutral or generic fantasy sci-fi content is usually the safest bet to appeal to the largest number of people.
The prefab 3D content market is largely dead , (outside of the gaming industry, which is also struggling.)
as a zDaz vendor you're better off learning some basic programming or scripting and coming up with an actual utility that solves an existing problem not being handled by the core software features.
seeing how the latest build of Daz studio completely reset the board, by breaking most of the existing third party plugins ,this would be a good time to learn how to start writing and selling new scripts for the newest version of Daz studio
( Assuming there's an actual useful and updated. SDK.)
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Bobb
Karma: 1,532
Fri, Feb 06You're right about people complaining that this or that aspect of some historical item was wrong. I'd forgotten that point.
I doubt that we'll ever see Studio 5 or 6 or whatever they'll call it. It's been a good 3 years since DazRaub announced Studio 5 and since then we've seen nothing but an alpha. I know that the Tafi cancer has cut Daz to the bone and that sales are half(?) of what they used to be. The cashflow and stock value aren't what they expected so I'll just bet that Daz gets sold.
I've said this often enough...keep ALL versions of Studio that you have and backup your content. when the whole thing collapses, we'll still be able to play dolls.
I doubt that we'll ever see Studio 5 or 6 or whatever they'll call it. It's been a good 3 years since DazRaub announced Studio 5 and since then we've seen nothing but an alpha. I know that the Tafi cancer has cut Daz to the bone and that sales are half(?) of what they used to be. The cashflow and stock value aren't what they expected so I'll just bet that Daz gets sold.
I've said this often enough...keep ALL versions of Studio that you have and backup your content. when the whole thing collapses, we'll still be able to play dolls.
As a seller my G9 products tend to sell more, as of these few months atleast.
I'm not a complete fan with how G9 was made, also posing with it bugs out so much more than G8 does.
Not to mention it can be so heavy to render.
I'm hoping G10 comes in clutch.
I'm not a complete fan with how G9 was made, also posing with it bugs out so much more than G8 does.
Not to mention it can be so heavy to render.
I'm hoping G10 comes in clutch.
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not a big fan of the garbage rubber hose topology, roughly 2x the vertex count in the base mesh for no reason whatsoever if they were going to lean into 4-5 levels of subdivision like this. also it's just plain not rigged as well as G8, the knees and hips in particular don't bend as well. the androgynous base morph was also a bad idea, it makes creating clothing and morphs take extra work to do for objectively worse results. prime example of profit motivation conflicting with quality.
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G9 at base relotution is managable for extras populating a scene, when you use scene optimizer.
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Excessive
Karma: 12,394
Fri, Feb 06that's not an advantage, that's working around a significant disadvantage
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,302
Fri, Feb 06For sure not an advantage.
The ONLY real advantage of G9 are expressions.
The ONLY real advantage of G9 are expressions.
Smith Micro made same mistake that allowed DAZ3D to rise to number one. Many of us remember the vision that propelled DAZ Studios to success. Now, either Unreal Metahuman or iClone will take its place. All the hard work we put in in between will be wasted.
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Masterstroke
Karma: 5,302
Sun, Feb 08Yup, the mistake has been "Poser 11".
No value to upgrade and it has gotten worse since then.
Iclone/CharacterCreator is there, wher Poser should have been.
Smith Micro and Bondware have killed Poser.
Does anybody remember, what a huge step up the upgrade from Poser 4Pro to Poser 5 has been? (aside from pretty buggy as always with Poser)
No value to upgrade and it has gotten worse since then.
Iclone/CharacterCreator is there, wher Poser should have been.
Smith Micro and Bondware have killed Poser.
Does anybody remember, what a huge step up the upgrade from Poser 4Pro to Poser 5 has been? (aside from pretty buggy as always with Poser)
Bobb
Karma: 1,532
Sun, Feb 08*chuckle* I still have a copy (a REAL paper book!) of 'Figure Creation with Poser 5' by B.L. Render.
Darkseal
Karma: 3,862
Tue, Mar 17HAHA, I've got that too, it's amazing and stil works just fine in Poser.
Well to their credit, Bondware did deliver on their promise of a new "Dynamic cloth System"
for Poser 14
https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2997795/posercloth
for Poser 14
https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2997795/posercloth
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Bobb
Karma: 1,532
Sun, Feb 08I just read the thread and it's not getting much love. The fact that the engine is FOSS and available on GitHub has also stirred some hackles.
Bobb
Karma: 1,532
Mon, Feb 09That thread gets nastier and of course, someone brought up draping in Marvellous Designer.
That old VWD was also mentioned. I seem to remember playing with it some years back and thought it was pretty good.
That old VWD was also mentioned. I seem to remember playing with it some years back and thought it was pretty good.
Reading the thread lays bare the sad reality of the state of the poser clothing market.
It would seem that there are nearly no vendors actually creating conformers for the recent stable of crowd sourced poser native figures and the few that remained have been depending entirely on dynamic draping clothing instead.
And it would appear that this new system is not entirely compatible with people's existing collections dynamic clothing made for the older cloth engine without significant manual correction.
This effectively makes poser 14
(even with this new dynamic cloth engine)
a hard reset of the, already abysmal, poser native clothing market.
It would seem that there are nearly no vendors actually creating conformers for the recent stable of crowd sourced poser native figures and the few that remained have been depending entirely on dynamic draping clothing instead.
And it would appear that this new system is not entirely compatible with people's existing collections dynamic clothing made for the older cloth engine without significant manual correction.
This effectively makes poser 14
(even with this new dynamic cloth engine)
a hard reset of the, already abysmal, poser native clothing market.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,532
Mon, Feb 09I wonder what happened to VWD. They had a Studio version that worked then the whole thing died.
VWD Appears to still available for purchase
but only supports Poser 11 and below.
Could be that the development stagnated after Poser 12 & higher switched to python 3
https://www.virtualworlddynamics.net/
in my opinion, a dynamic cloth engine is always nice, however it is not the solution to the lack of an active conforming clothing content creators knowledge base for poser.
There are so many styles of clothing, (particularly for males) and in the sci fi and cyberpunk genre, where you really need close-fitting and even rigid body type clothing such as armors and military gear etc., where dynamic clothing is really not a suitable solution.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,532
Mon, Feb 09Thanks for the link, I'd forgotten all about it and never thought to check Rendo. It's still in the 2019 release so I'm going to ask them if they plan on updating it.
Well, if it's going to be functional in any version of poser after poser 11, it will have to be completely rewritten in python 3.
The developer didn't do this ,in the intervening years, for poser 12 or 13.
So I wouldn't invest too much hope that he's going to do it for poser 14, all things considered.
The developer didn't do this ,in the intervening years, for poser 12 or 13.
So I wouldn't invest too much hope that he's going to do it for poser 14, all things considered.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,532
Tue, Feb 10Their last Patreon post mentions the programmer (Gerald) having eye problems and unable to work.
This was two years ago so I'm considering it dead.
This was two years ago so I'm considering it dead.
I honestly don't know if Genesis 9 is bad or good - I've never used it. DAZ threw so much stuff at us at the same time, I had no desire to take it up. I have a 3 TB library of DAZ stuff, I didn't need a whole new generation to throw on top of it and I didn't see anything in Genesis 9 that made Genesis 8 obsolete. Apparently neither did a number of other people.
Genesis 9 came out in October of 2021, the fact we are still discussing it in February of 2026, over four years later, tells what a resounding success it wasn't.
The fact that even in the official DAZ store they are making clothes that fit both Genesis 9 and a four year old "obsolete" Genesis 8 should speak volumes too.
Wildfang Outfit for Genesis 9 and 8 Female dForce Optional
dForce Frontier Outfit for Genesis 9 and Genesis 8 Female
At this point though they really need to get Daz Studio 2025 finished and out the door before the announce Genesis 10. Which has to be coming, it may well be at the same time. New, Improved! Now with separate male and female figures!
Genesis 9 came out in October of 2021, the fact we are still discussing it in February of 2026, over four years later, tells what a resounding success it wasn't.
The fact that even in the official DAZ store they are making clothes that fit both Genesis 9 and a four year old "obsolete" Genesis 8 should speak volumes too.
Wildfang Outfit for Genesis 9 and 8 Female dForce Optional
dForce Frontier Outfit for Genesis 9 and Genesis 8 Female
At this point though they really need to get Daz Studio 2025 finished and out the door before the announce Genesis 10. Which has to be coming, it may well be at the same time. New, Improved! Now with separate male and female figures!
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! REPORT
Genesis 9 was a solution to a" problem" that did not actually exist.
The Daz figure technology, as it operates inside Daz studio, has reached a technological plateau for still image creation.
There is still plenty of room to add new features to the Daz Genesis figures for professional character animation.
But that would require adding the accompanying core features to the Daz Studio software itself to support an advanced character for animation.
However, Daz obviously sees no value in such an undertaking as the user base has shown little interest in creating 3D character animated films.
And even if they did ,the fact that Daz is committed to an extremely outdated and slow brute force path tracer, in NVIDIA,
Iray, makes using Daz studio for any type of serious character animation productions an absolute non-starter.
Perhaps long time vendors are seeing the writing on the wall
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/755491/oso3d-closure#latest
The Daz figure technology, as it operates inside Daz studio, has reached a technological plateau for still image creation.
There is still plenty of room to add new features to the Daz Genesis figures for professional character animation.
But that would require adding the accompanying core features to the Daz Studio software itself to support an advanced character for animation.
However, Daz obviously sees no value in such an undertaking as the user base has shown little interest in creating 3D character animated films.
And even if they did ,the fact that Daz is committed to an extremely outdated and slow brute force path tracer, in NVIDIA,
Iray, makes using Daz studio for any type of serious character animation productions an absolute non-starter.
Perhaps long time vendors are seeing the writing on the wall
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/755491/oso3d-closure#latest
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! REPORT
I hope developers on this site are reading this!
I stopped visiting DAZ because all new stuff is G9. I do all of my purchases HERE because new G8 stuff is being offered.
I stopped visiting DAZ because all new stuff is G9. I do all of my purchases HERE because new G8 stuff is being offered.
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Don't worry, they will fix all of that in Genesis 10, the promise. Now buy everything you love over again please, Free Daz software commands you.
I won't really know anything about that though, I'm still using V4 in Poser.
I won't really know anything about that though, I'm still using V4 in Poser.
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evarest
Karma: 259
Wed, Mar 18Seeing how abandoned, low-effort, and uninspired almost every product feels on the official marketplace, I’ve reached a point where I have no real hope left for G10, or for anything genuinely worth releasing.
We don’t have the variety we had with G8/8.1, and we’re already stuck in a loop of the same Instagram female characters and impractical underwear over and over again. It feels like the passion is just gone.
And even if something worthwhile does come along, it’ll likely be rare and overpriced, with features broken up into multiple smaller products.
We don’t have the variety we had with G8/8.1, and we’re already stuck in a loop of the same Instagram female characters and impractical underwear over and over again. It feels like the passion is just gone.
And even if something worthwhile does come along, it’ll likely be rare and overpriced, with features broken up into multiple smaller products.
Bobb
Karma: 1,532
Wed, Mar 18I'm also still a big user of good ole Vicky Fourpointtwoplusplus. she loads fast, is light on the system so I can add a bunch of girls and dress them up. She has a closet busting wardrobe that all the Genesis bimbos together can't match plus stuff that no other figure has. From excellent lingerie and shoes to jewellery, and let's not forget her expressions and poses.
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,302
Wed, Mar 18Quote:
"Don't worry, they will fix all of that in Genesis 10, the promise. Now buy everything you love over again please, Free Daz software commands you.
I won't really know anything about that though, I'm still using V4 in Poser."
This "razorblade" buisiness model is true for DAZ Studio users AND Poser users.
In this, there is absolutely no difference for both branches.
The only one big difference is, that the DAZ studio base program is free and Poser is at least a 150 bucks.
Poser hasn't changed much since Poser 11 and still they charge you for new versions.
I never liked V4. DAZ figures became useful with Genesis 3 and 8.
Genesis 9 is pretty much useless, for it brings nothing new to the table, that could not have been introduced as an add on to Genesis 8.
A possible Genesis 10 had to have significant improvement, that would also require to have an update to DAZ studio itself, in order to make sense.
I am thinking of soft body tissue simulation, additional face groups with additional bones.
I don't think, that this is going to happen, for DAZ might more be focusing on a standard rigging, that support migrating to other apps -eg.
Unreal, Blender or Max, instead of being inventive.
"Don't worry, they will fix all of that in Genesis 10, the promise. Now buy everything you love over again please, Free Daz software commands you.
I won't really know anything about that though, I'm still using V4 in Poser."
This "razorblade" buisiness model is true for DAZ Studio users AND Poser users.
In this, there is absolutely no difference for both branches.
The only one big difference is, that the DAZ studio base program is free and Poser is at least a 150 bucks.
Poser hasn't changed much since Poser 11 and still they charge you for new versions.
I never liked V4. DAZ figures became useful with Genesis 3 and 8.
Genesis 9 is pretty much useless, for it brings nothing new to the table, that could not have been introduced as an add on to Genesis 8.
A possible Genesis 10 had to have significant improvement, that would also require to have an update to DAZ studio itself, in order to make sense.
I am thinking of soft body tissue simulation, additional face groups with additional bones.
I don't think, that this is going to happen, for DAZ might more be focusing on a standard rigging, that support migrating to other apps -eg.
Unreal, Blender or Max, instead of being inventive.
Darkseal
Karma: 3,862
Thu, Mar 19Very true. I myself have purchased many poser version but have found that Poser 11 pro is the best version and have chosen not to buy any version tied to renderosity (I do have version 12). 11 pro is the most stable with all the features available. I only updated in case there were features that I could use to provide services to the marketplace when making figures and props. At the end of the day I find the weight maps a waste of time on most figures. V4/M4 have been the best imo, and there is no need to go past those once you stack on / make JCM's to fix what needs to be fixed. Sure, maps made later on for later genesis figure look good, but that same effort can/has been put into v4 maps as well.
The G10 was a joke obviously. If G 5,6,7,8,9 hasn't dissuaded people from buying everything all over again and again then I'm sure everyone will just love G10.
Poser already has softbody simulation, has for over a decade I think, I dunno... time flies. I think that came in around the same time as SSS and hard body simulation. Probably version 9, maybe even 8. I've been making a few figures with additional face bones for about 8-10 years too, since it's so easy inside Poser. Yes, Poser charges for new versions, but it really doesn't mean you have to upgrade, just like no one needs to buy G10 skins and clothing and morph packs and hair etc... Once you pimp out one figure you're at the cost of software, so it can be a wash. iRay is probably what puts Daz a step above right now. I just wish the support for RTX 5 series was better for all of these programs. At this point I might as well be exporting to Blender. I have imported to Unreal, it's amazing to have fun with figures in real time, rigged with moves walking around.....
The G10 was a joke obviously. If G 5,6,7,8,9 hasn't dissuaded people from buying everything all over again and again then I'm sure everyone will just love G10.
Poser already has softbody simulation, has for over a decade I think, I dunno... time flies. I think that came in around the same time as SSS and hard body simulation. Probably version 9, maybe even 8. I've been making a few figures with additional face bones for about 8-10 years too, since it's so easy inside Poser. Yes, Poser charges for new versions, but it really doesn't mean you have to upgrade, just like no one needs to buy G10 skins and clothing and morph packs and hair etc... Once you pimp out one figure you're at the cost of software, so it can be a wash. iRay is probably what puts Daz a step above right now. I just wish the support for RTX 5 series was better for all of these programs. At this point I might as well be exporting to Blender. I have imported to Unreal, it's amazing to have fun with figures in real time, rigged with moves walking around.....
It's almost as if G9 was designed specifically to stifle competition. It pretty much relies on HD details, which are not accessible outside of DAZ ( theoretically ). Whereas users would previously be able to buy detail morph packs to make their own character, now it's 'head and body' only. Not sure if the PA's had some input in the G9 design decisions, but wherever it came from it was bad advice IMHO. Rather than stifle competition it has made DAZ Studio less friendly overall.
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Darkseal
Karma: 3,862
Thu, Mar 19Poser can do HD details, you just use a slider to get a more dense mesh and then make morphs for the higher res mesh... It's been there for the last 11-12 years
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,302
Thu, Mar 19Very true. Poser has actually 3 features, to be envy of, as a DS user:
HD details for everyone,
a morph brush for everyone
and a dependency editor with nodes and graphs.
HD details for everyone,
a morph brush for everyone
and a dependency editor with nodes and graphs.
Darkseal
Karma: 3,862
Thu, Mar 19I also like the way Poser saves items and figures to the library. To this day I have no idea what I am supposed to do to save a prop or figure to the library, when I try the resulting file is tiny and have no idea if it is all self contained. Saving in daz doesn't let me use in poser, while saving in poser lets me use in daz. There are other things, but nothing I use as much as creating new figures and saving to distribute to the market.
I'm glad someone is talking about it. g9 is literally awful. It's almost painful watching so much effort going into a terrible model while g8 gets ignored and forgotten. Every g9 character or outfit product being released on the market places is equivalent to releasing brand new rotten stinking garbage.. That's exactly how I see it.
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evarest
Karma: 259
Sat, May 30To be fair, that’s not because G9 is better or worse. It’s a consequence of the enshittification of storefronts: faster production , higher prices, and less effort put into the products themselves. You can pick up a G8 fantasy outfit from 2016 and it will often have ten times the quality of something released this year, despite the incredible tools available today.
Open Marvelous Designer, throw together a dress using basic shapes, fuck the seams, fuck the fabric borders, and fuck any kind of wrinkle details, copy the body weights, and call it done. Release it next week, then repeat the process four more times next month. That's become the standard pipeline.
Open Marvelous Designer, throw together a dress using basic shapes, fuck the seams, fuck the fabric borders, and fuck any kind of wrinkle details, copy the body weights, and call it done. Release it next week, then repeat the process four more times next month. That's become the standard pipeline.
MKDAWUSS
Karma: 71,213
Sat, May 30"Open Marvelous Designer, throw together a dress using basic shapes, fuck the seams, fuck the fabric borders, and fuck any kind of wrinkle details, copy the body weights, and call it done. Release it next week, then repeat the process four more times next month. That's become the standard pipeline."
I think they've moved on from MD to AI.
I think they've moved on from MD to AI.
alpinemike
Karma: 261
Sat, May 30It's not just the product for the character. It's the model The character looks and poses terribly. I don't want to redesign every single joint to get a natural looking pose. I should not have to subdivide three times to see a hint of basic anatomy. It's just a bad model and a bad execution of the model. I see the product line as trash because to me the model is so terrible I will not use it. So every single new release is a useless product to me.. they might as well box up some poo and put it up for purchase.. I see okay renders with the model but only in very basic poses..
dirtrider00
Karma: 21,836
Sat, May 30I think G9 is better in regards to close up portraits, creatures, and I find the base height of the female to be more realistic. I'm more story focused and for me, G8.1 works, looks, and is easier to use, especially since I can have up to 14+ 8.1's in a scene depending on the environment I'm using. I also tend to dress the female characters in dresses, mini skirts and bikini's and G9's knee bends look horrid! Overall, what generation someone uses and think's is better may just depend on the type of renders they mainly do.
One of the things I liked/like about G8 is that the customer has access to the same tools as the PA's. You can start off buying what you want from the various stores, and stick with that if you prefer, or you can start to make your own props/clothes/figures, knowing that they can be as good as the ones in the store if you are skilled enough. Over time you can make more and buy less, if you want a more personalised collection of assets.
G9 breaks all that, it puts a wall around quality figure creation and hair creation, that you can't cross unless you are a PA. It forces everyone to start from an androgenous figure shape, making it harder to realise your own vision of a character, and pretty much assumes you're going to use Zbrush or something similar.
G9 breaks all that, it puts a wall around quality figure creation and hair creation, that you can't cross unless you are a PA. It forces everyone to start from an androgenous figure shape, making it harder to realise your own vision of a character, and pretty much assumes you're going to use Zbrush or something similar.
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Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,448
Sat, May 30That's a good point. The thing I hate the most is the unintuitive n-gons that seem to have a mind of their own when subdivisions kick in.
I think you can easily reach an androgynous figure from a female or a male base, while they forced everyone to do the reverse. Meanwhile, most characters and clothing that are made are not androgynous in nature. I am not really sure what they were thinking.
It would have been better for G9 to start as a female figure, since those are what people make the most and what sells the largest quantity, if the idea was to downsize and unify. They could have included an out-of-the-box male morph for PAs who do not want to go through the trouble of adjusting the figure, while having the same UV Map.
Also, the nipple detail was a bad idea if they did not intend to give users access to HD. It is really a bad idea.
I think you can easily reach an androgynous figure from a female or a male base, while they forced everyone to do the reverse. Meanwhile, most characters and clothing that are made are not androgynous in nature. I am not really sure what they were thinking.
It would have been better for G9 to start as a female figure, since those are what people make the most and what sells the largest quantity, if the idea was to downsize and unify. They could have included an out-of-the-box male morph for PAs who do not want to go through the trouble of adjusting the figure, while having the same UV Map.
Also, the nipple detail was a bad idea if they did not intend to give users access to HD. It is really a bad idea.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,491
Sun, May 31@Jacko
Well... it's not really that hard to create G9 characters. And you always need tools like zBrush or Blender for fine-tuning (sculpting) the character... theoretically (I think), you're not allowed to publish characters created solely using slider morphs ....
@Luxe
Yes, the issue with the missing curves in G9 Base is frustrating and, at times, even discouraging, since G9 Base is essential for creating 3D clothing. I’ve made very few outfits for G9, and when I have, they’ve been limited to bottoms, because I often had trouble with shirts and other tops and the female curves. That's why, when it comes to G9, I mainly stick to shells or dropables (like my caftan project).
Nipples? What a nightmare! Honestly, I hardly ever used nipples in G8 (not even in the adult section)... but when creating 3D clothing, the G8 mesh was a great reference point. In G9 (clothing creation), you always have to use the model with the body materials to see where the nipples are. I don't like that at all.
Well... it's not really that hard to create G9 characters. And you always need tools like zBrush or Blender for fine-tuning (sculpting) the character... theoretically (I think), you're not allowed to publish characters created solely using slider morphs ....
@Luxe
Yes, the issue with the missing curves in G9 Base is frustrating and, at times, even discouraging, since G9 Base is essential for creating 3D clothing. I’ve made very few outfits for G9, and when I have, they’ve been limited to bottoms, because I often had trouble with shirts and other tops and the female curves. That's why, when it comes to G9, I mainly stick to shells or dropables (like my caftan project).
Nipples? What a nightmare! Honestly, I hardly ever used nipples in G8 (not even in the adult section)... but when creating 3D clothing, the G8 mesh was a great reference point. In G9 (clothing creation), you always have to use the model with the body materials to see where the nipples are. I don't like that at all.
Everwild
Karma: 9,491
Sun, May 31(Please note that I feel too small to be on this ride in terms of experience...) I've noticed the quality or maybe the attention to detail has dropped significantly from G8/8.1 to G9. I like the concept of G9 -- all that glorious mixability (it's a thing; I like more options, not fewer). I'm not sure I understand the underlying G9 problem. Is it that it begins as a unisex model and people just hate that, or is it that the *execution* of the unisex model is awful and Daz doesn't care to correct it? Is it naive to think that a lump of clay is just a lump of clay and doesn't care how it's sculpted? (I realize that may be an oversimplification because *I* certainly haven't tried making anything in Blender...it's way so intimidating!)
Honestly, I feel a lot of the complaints I see here are similar to those I harbor about the Daz 3 horse. However, because horses aren't as sexy as scantily clad women, Daz has zero interest in fixing the base model at all. I'm pretty sure it's a naive comparison, but that's about the extent of my understanding with 3D sculpting. Also, I've met 12 year olds who sculpted better horses. (Note: The thoroughbred morph fixes many of the base model issues, but those conformation problems with the original model are irksome.)
I have plenty of G8 / 8.1 models that are beautiful. I do believe there are fewer [well made] G8.1 men, but I may be looking in the wrong direction for them. In terms of just the portraits I've been making to fill in my vast stable of characters, the only thing I can't seem to accomplish with the G8/8.1 era is rounded, dimensional eyes. They always end up flat in my images. I know rounded eyes are possible and I suspect it's something I haven't yet figured out. However, beyond that, the G9s aren't really all that and a bag of chips. The noodly elbow and knee joints are way-so-very annoying.
What I do recognize, however, is that the G9 products don't have the same soul. Not all of them, but most of them feel like they're being generated any more for profit whereas a lot of the G8 / 8.1 seem to have the deeper investment in their production, and not *just* a product.
Honestly, I feel a lot of the complaints I see here are similar to those I harbor about the Daz 3 horse. However, because horses aren't as sexy as scantily clad women, Daz has zero interest in fixing the base model at all. I'm pretty sure it's a naive comparison, but that's about the extent of my understanding with 3D sculpting. Also, I've met 12 year olds who sculpted better horses. (Note: The thoroughbred morph fixes many of the base model issues, but those conformation problems with the original model are irksome.)
I have plenty of G8 / 8.1 models that are beautiful. I do believe there are fewer [well made] G8.1 men, but I may be looking in the wrong direction for them. In terms of just the portraits I've been making to fill in my vast stable of characters, the only thing I can't seem to accomplish with the G8/8.1 era is rounded, dimensional eyes. They always end up flat in my images. I know rounded eyes are possible and I suspect it's something I haven't yet figured out. However, beyond that, the G9s aren't really all that and a bag of chips. The noodly elbow and knee joints are way-so-very annoying.
What I do recognize, however, is that the G9 products don't have the same soul. Not all of them, but most of them feel like they're being generated any more for profit whereas a lot of the G8 / 8.1 seem to have the deeper investment in their production, and not *just* a product.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,491
Sun, May 31@Everwild
Hi, thanks for the little distraction. Right now, I'm struggling in my study (where it feels like 32C) trying to get the hand and finger poses right for a tiny little spoon (Gelateria)....
So, a little bit of basic knowledge: 3D clothing for DAZ must always be created for the base version of the model. So, for GF8, that’s the GF8 Base... and for G9, it’s the G9 Base (gender-neutral). Since the entire chest area (for whatever reason) is modeled like a flat board (meaning the mesh doesn't even remotely reflect the anatomy with its curves), this sometimes results (at least for me) in some really odd behavior with the 3D clothing when a top that was properly modeled and rigged for G9 Base is applied to G9 Female.
Somehow, it has something to do with DAZ's internal 'Fit To' mechanisms (I think I read that somewhere)... but I just don't feel like digging into that right now.
Hope that helps a bit ....
Well, back to big fingers and little spoons
Hi, thanks for the little distraction. Right now, I'm struggling in my study (where it feels like 32C) trying to get the hand and finger poses right for a tiny little spoon (Gelateria)....
So, a little bit of basic knowledge: 3D clothing for DAZ must always be created for the base version of the model. So, for GF8, that’s the GF8 Base... and for G9, it’s the G9 Base (gender-neutral). Since the entire chest area (for whatever reason) is modeled like a flat board (meaning the mesh doesn't even remotely reflect the anatomy with its curves), this sometimes results (at least for me) in some really odd behavior with the 3D clothing when a top that was properly modeled and rigged for G9 Base is applied to G9 Female.
Somehow, it has something to do with DAZ's internal 'Fit To' mechanisms (I think I read that somewhere)... but I just don't feel like digging into that right now.
Hope that helps a bit ....
Well, back to big fingers and little spoons
Jackolantern
Karma: 414
Sun, May 31I don't view 3D meshes as entity's if that's what your're asking. I don't consider them as male or female, or have any issue with changing their gender from any moral point of view. For me it's more a technical problem. If I want to create a render of an attractive woman it's a lot harder to do that if I have to start from a genderless android shape.
Everwild
Karma: 9,491
Sun, May 31Oh, LAWD, Pushee, anything above 23c is DETH. Only thing worse is if it's muggy, too. Thank you for your insights. It actually explains a big piece of the puzzle I was missing. Good luck with the tiny spoon!
Everwild
Karma: 9,491
Sun, May 31@Jackolantern
Oh, no. I wasn't thinking in terms of social constructs. (I *do* have a pet peeve about Daz's serious lack of attention to all things men and having to dig through pages and pages of sale items to find guy things can make me cranky, but that's a whinge for another thread.) I think Pushee clarified the part that was mystifying me about what's so hard about starting with a model built to work in either direction. I didn't understand that all products have to be -- basically? built on that lump of formless clay. I can appreciate having assets that fit either sex (or the more androgynous forms), but that literally sounds like Daz expects creators to make waffles out of pancake mix without a waffle iron.
Oh, no. I wasn't thinking in terms of social constructs. (I *do* have a pet peeve about Daz's serious lack of attention to all things men and having to dig through pages and pages of sale items to find guy things can make me cranky, but that's a whinge for another thread.) I think Pushee clarified the part that was mystifying me about what's so hard about starting with a model built to work in either direction. I didn't understand that all products have to be -- basically? built on that lump of formless clay. I can appreciate having assets that fit either sex (or the more androgynous forms), but that literally sounds like Daz expects creators to make waffles out of pancake mix without a waffle iron.