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GLBThe slow creep in infiltration has started!
1,443Thread Activity
Wolf007Wed, May 20
RenderHub Admin 1Wed, May 20
Luxe MuseSat, May 16
thirdeyezennicaiFri, May 15
bonjFri, May 15
bonjFri, May 15
bonjFri, May 15
davidrobbins81Fri, May 15
davidrobbins81Fri, May 15
davidrobbins81Fri, May 15
On both renderosity and here, we're seeing these little notifications on the product pages.
The slow infiltration of AI products has arrived.
The slow infiltration of AI products has arrived.
! REPORT
RenderHub has a "Hide AI" button with the other filter options. Just click that, and you won't see AI products in marketplace categories or searches.
I like that it remembers my preference. Just set it and forget it.
I like that it remembers my preference. Just set it and forget it.
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Tenserknot
Karma: 9,870
Mon, May 11Dont want to forget it, and I'm not an ostrich.
I like being aware of what's coming down the pipe.
I like being aware of what's coming down the pipe.
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 2,871
Thu, May 14Yep! Mine is permanently clicked to hide AI products. I don't want to see that junk.
While I'm not great fan of AI image generation ( and have made my feelings clear previously on that ) I did buy the new 'Image to genesis 8/9 Pose generator' and I have to say I'm impressed. This is the sort of product that I think shows AI can actually help a DAZ user, rather than driving people away from it. ( I'm not affiliated with the seller, just a happy customer ).
I see it has an AI tag, which is fair since it uses AI to somehow create a pose file from a photo, but it would be sad if people missed it owing to having all AI products hidden.
I see it has an AI tag, which is fair since it uses AI to somehow create a pose file from a photo, but it would be sad if people missed it owing to having all AI products hidden.
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dirtrider00
Karma: 22,538
Mon, May 11I saw that product and stuck it into the wishlist. Kinda waiting to see some reviews on it but that would go really good for some of the photo reference photos I've seen on here, especially for the type of poses that aren't represented. (like I saw a photo pack for baseball and there just aren't any baseball pose packs available)
I wrote a review and pressed submit but I don't know where it went, or where I would see it.
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diogenese19348
Karma: 714
Wed, May 13It takes a while for them to post sometimes a full day, I think somebody reviews them first. It shows up on the product page you were reviewing. Yours is there now.
It's great, it's not perfect ( but the vendor says so on the product page ) My opinion is that it can get you so close to a pose from a photo, that very little adjustment is required. I've found with pose packs generally that I have to do some tweaking anyway since my figures are rarely the default shape, and of course poses have to be made to suit some figure shape, so the default shape is usually assumed as the target.
If I'm trying to reproduce a pose from a photo by hand I struggle to get the pelvis at the right angle, and if you change that later in the posing process most of the work you did on legs and arms will probably need to be done again, so having this program get me 90% of the way there is a huge help.
If I'm trying to reproduce a pose from a photo by hand I struggle to get the pelvis at the right angle, and if you change that later in the posing process most of the work you did on legs and arms will probably need to be done again, so having this program get me 90% of the way there is a huge help.
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I should add that I had some initial difficulty with getting it running, and the seller quickly found the problem and solved it. Also I had some feedback and suggestions and the seller quickly responded with very good answers.
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Honestly, and I'll probably get grilled for it on here, but it doesn't really bother me in the least. As long as the vendor is honest about it and adds some regular Iray renders with it, assuming the product is for Daz.
Personally, I'm more story focused and enjoy kit bashing, messing with the lights, environmental, tone mapping and surface settings to get the look I'm after. Found I can get closer to the look I'm after with those than relying on my mediocre skills with postwork.
Overall, I think everyone has their own reasons for doing the 3D thing, and for the most part, on the hobbiest, individualist level, I'm fine with people using whatever tools they have at their disposal and are comfortable with to get the look they're after as long as they're honest about it.
Sorry, alittle above and beyond the ai in the store topic.
Personally, I'm more story focused and enjoy kit bashing, messing with the lights, environmental, tone mapping and surface settings to get the look I'm after. Found I can get closer to the look I'm after with those than relying on my mediocre skills with postwork.
Overall, I think everyone has their own reasons for doing the 3D thing, and for the most part, on the hobbiest, individualist level, I'm fine with people using whatever tools they have at their disposal and are comfortable with to get the look they're after as long as they're honest about it.
Sorry, alittle above and beyond the ai in the store topic.
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Smells more like a tool to me and in this case it would be on the user to not "steal"... Biggest gripe with generative "AI" is that it trains on stolen material, here the tool is searching for the person and mapping position data to a genesis figure.. the user is responsible for not stealing art by respecting the artistic rights of the original image's owner. The modern use of "AI" is ridiculously broad.
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davidrobbins81
Karma: 468
Fri, May 15"The modern use of "AI" is ridiculously broad"
You got that right! I think that's one of the main reasons conversations like this get so heated. There's a big difference between using AI as a tool and having AI spit stuff out.
You got that right! I think that's one of the main reasons conversations like this get so heated. There's a big difference between using AI as a tool and having AI spit stuff out.
Pretty much the only things I've seen with this tag are backgrounds, reference images, and static (non-poseable/non-morphing) figures. Or at least so far, anyways. I haven't seen an actual rigged figure yet, but I'm sure that's coming eventually.
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Im not talking about AI art, or AI promos, I'm talking about the 3D models themselves are made using AI generation. and then sold as a product in the store.
Big difference.
Big difference.
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dirtrider00
Karma: 22,538
Mon, May 11Not sure how far along the whole AI modeling thing is, but in the end as much as I hate to say it, if the vendors don't or aren't making what the consumers want, then I can see some people moving to at least some AI type props and such. As a rough example, I've needed a mid to high quality baseball glove for G8 for years. I've asked, hinted, prayed and yet no one wants to make one. For me, I'll likely break down and buy one made in blender then scale and fit it as best I can to G8. For some of the simpler stuff, I can see people deciding to use a prop or such made with AI if they can't find it made the traditional way.
Though thinking about it, if there's a AI modeling program out there that anyone can use, why would you buy it through a vendor? I understand it for traditional items but something made with AI? Why not just do it yourself?
Though thinking about it, if there's a AI modeling program out there that anyone can use, why would you buy it through a vendor? I understand it for traditional items but something made with AI? Why not just do it yourself?
Tenserknot
Karma: 9,870
Tue, May 12absolutely, a customer can do it yourself. 25 words and you get what you want.
the point is, some vendors are turning around and selling that no work output as products. and both rendo and here dont see any issues with that.
and maybe there isn't a issue. except for some there is.
I think it reduced the usefulness of marketplaces. for the price of one AI generated model, a person can by a monthly subscription and generate 500 of them.
Guess thats the future.
the point is, some vendors are turning around and selling that no work output as products. and both rendo and here dont see any issues with that.
and maybe there isn't a issue. except for some there is.
I think it reduced the usefulness of marketplaces. for the price of one AI generated model, a person can by a monthly subscription and generate 500 of them.
Guess thats the future.
dirtrider00
Karma: 22,538
Tue, May 12I personally don't think, as of now AI is hurting the marketplaces, other than the "No AI" crowd. Basically most of it just feels over saturated. I'm basically only use G8.1 and G9 has several years under its belt already. Only so many ways you can cut a bikini and such. I tend to look at the texturing (colors and patterns) more than the item alot of the times. Kinda wish Foxy3d and BadKitty3d were a little more active. They tend to be more creative with their texturing/colors and such.
I know if I had the talent to model and texture stuff I'd be looking for the things that aren't in the stores. Oops, sorry, kinda getting off topic.
I know if I had the talent to model and texture stuff I'd be looking for the things that aren't in the stores. Oops, sorry, kinda getting off topic.
That's right, AI is coming, I'm using it, but there's still a big difference between the result produced by AI from a photo and the original photo. For example,
the photo of the sign
et le résultat du rendu avec Daz et Iray
the photo of the sign
et le résultat du rendu avec Daz et Iray
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Tenserknot
Karma: 9,870
Tue, May 12YOur looking at the bread, but the structure of the support pipes looks quite good.
bonj
Karma: 14,887
Tue, May 12Forgive me if I come across a little rude but I must speak my mind.
I find your products are very pore quality, they do not look real or very good at all. Do they even have all the correct texture maps? have you set up a displacement map? they look shiny and plastic.
Have you made any sales?
Did you imagine you could have a model shop online by only using your ai products?
How do you think this effects the stores of real 3d model makers?
As an individual I hold no bias towards you personally, however if every Tom, Dick and Harry also set up an ai model shop here don't you think it will eventually effect everyone else?
I get asked all the time now if my work is ai and I have lost sales because people assume I use AI when I absolutely do not , for anything.
Anyway I have said my piece, If you wish to grow and develop in 3d then learn some software.
I find your products are very pore quality, they do not look real or very good at all. Do they even have all the correct texture maps? have you set up a displacement map? they look shiny and plastic.
Have you made any sales?
Did you imagine you could have a model shop online by only using your ai products?
How do you think this effects the stores of real 3d model makers?
As an individual I hold no bias towards you personally, however if every Tom, Dick and Harry also set up an ai model shop here don't you think it will eventually effect everyone else?
I get asked all the time now if my work is ai and I have lost sales because people assume I use AI when I absolutely do not , for anything.
Anyway I have said my piece, If you wish to grow and develop in 3d then learn some software.
Tenserknot
Karma: 9,870
Tue, May 12I'm downloading your old five pack now to have a closer look, bonj, they look interesting and original.
bonj
Karma: 14,887
Tue, May 12@Tenserknot Thanks, they are very old now and my workflow is completely different. Some new freebies are coming soon showing my updated skills 
QUOTE: I'm talking about the 3D models themselves are made using AI generation. and then sold as a product in the store.
Big difference."
In the case of AI generated 3D models This sounds to me like a problem that solves itself.
I mean, considering the polarization on this issue. You're going to only have a few possible outcomes.
The hardcore anti AI activists will see that your model is marked "AI generated" and they won't buy it, nor will they bother generating their own models because that would be "haram."
Someone who is open to the use of AI ? well, they're not going to buy your model either. Because why would they, when they can just go to a site like meshy.ai and generate their own.
As much as I have embraced AI
I see the reality is this.
This permanent loss of scarcity, in the visual media production markets, cuts both ways
meaning that the sudden abundance of instant visual media production ,While, it may destroy the commercial freelance and even job markets for those who don't use the technology, it also completely devalues the output of those of us who are eagerly embracing the technology no matter how good it looks.
Because once people realize that great promotional ad that you created or Video or 3D model was made by using AI. They're going to immediately ask the. question. "Well, why should I pay you to do what I can go do for myself."
And I am perfectly okay with the economics of it being that I am newly retired ,with plenty of disposable income, and
And while yes, I'm still receiving small payments from the sales of my first AI assistant graphic novel through Kindle direct publishing.
I have no delusions about getting" rich" selling AI Generated output of any kind.
We are in the" attention economy " now,
YOUR ATTENTION needs to captured long enough for you to be exposed to to actual product idea or service.
All of the people who are heavily pro AI (that I follow-on Twitter/X )Spend most of their time obsessing over how many views and followers they get because Twitter/X gives payouts for engagement similar to what YouTube does, but on a smaller scale at this point.
Sure, the big tech companies that are selling the AI services are receiving HUGE. income from us users both. individuals and as corporate users.
But frankly in the end for most of us,
AI, it's just a tool to quickly produce and accelerate visual media for you to draw attention to something else that you're trying to sell or some other idea that you're trying to promote.
But the intrinsic value( such as it may be) better be in that" other actual thing" that you're selling or that "other actual idea" that you're promoting Because the visual media used to promote it has no value and is DISPOSABLE because everyone will be able to literally direct the production of good visual media. So once again, it will fall back to competition between ideas and narratives, not, who is "pouring their soul" into the making of some pretty pictures.
Big difference."
In the case of AI generated 3D models This sounds to me like a problem that solves itself.
I mean, considering the polarization on this issue. You're going to only have a few possible outcomes.
The hardcore anti AI activists will see that your model is marked "AI generated" and they won't buy it, nor will they bother generating their own models because that would be "haram."
Someone who is open to the use of AI ? well, they're not going to buy your model either. Because why would they, when they can just go to a site like meshy.ai and generate their own.
As much as I have embraced AI
I see the reality is this.
This permanent loss of scarcity, in the visual media production markets, cuts both ways
meaning that the sudden abundance of instant visual media production ,While, it may destroy the commercial freelance and even job markets for those who don't use the technology, it also completely devalues the output of those of us who are eagerly embracing the technology no matter how good it looks.
Because once people realize that great promotional ad that you created or Video or 3D model was made by using AI. They're going to immediately ask the. question. "Well, why should I pay you to do what I can go do for myself."
And I am perfectly okay with the economics of it being that I am newly retired ,with plenty of disposable income, and
And while yes, I'm still receiving small payments from the sales of my first AI assistant graphic novel through Kindle direct publishing.
I have no delusions about getting" rich" selling AI Generated output of any kind.
We are in the" attention economy " now,
YOUR ATTENTION needs to captured long enough for you to be exposed to to actual product idea or service.
All of the people who are heavily pro AI (that I follow-on Twitter/X )Spend most of their time obsessing over how many views and followers they get because Twitter/X gives payouts for engagement similar to what YouTube does, but on a smaller scale at this point.
Sure, the big tech companies that are selling the AI services are receiving HUGE. income from us users both. individuals and as corporate users.
But frankly in the end for most of us,
AI, it's just a tool to quickly produce and accelerate visual media for you to draw attention to something else that you're trying to sell or some other idea that you're trying to promote.
But the intrinsic value( such as it may be) better be in that" other actual thing" that you're selling or that "other actual idea" that you're promoting Because the visual media used to promote it has no value and is DISPOSABLE because everyone will be able to literally direct the production of good visual media. So once again, it will fall back to competition between ideas and narratives, not, who is "pouring their soul" into the making of some pretty pictures.
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Tenserknot
Karma: 9,870
Tue, May 12This is the crux of it. the tool allows the customer to be their own supplier.
I think it's a good initiative and worth appreciating compared to having nothing stated at all, but I've stopped buying anything here or on Renderosity.
The reason is that some creators use AI without disclosing it. I've reported it several times, but in some cases nothing improves, and it has become unclear which works involve AI use.
I'm probably in the minority, and I don't think my behavior will have much impact, but in the future it might lead to reduced sales even for creators who don't use AI.
The reason is that some creators use AI without disclosing it. I've reported it several times, but in some cases nothing improves, and it has become unclear which works involve AI use.
I'm probably in the minority, and I don't think my behavior will have much impact, but in the future it might lead to reduced sales even for creators who don't use AI.
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bonj
Karma: 14,887
Tue, May 12I feel exactly the same, stopped buying from here , rendo, shards and any store actively promoting ai over reel artist.
I only buy models I really want and if it supports a particular artist / model maker.
I can make most things myself but do like to collect and use other peoples work, I like to interact with them and get to know the person behind the product. I have made a lot of friends I have great respect for and genuinely care about them and their's. I believe this is called community in an industry and it builds a strong foundation. AI destroys this. Simply the community breaks down , conflicts and arguments develop. Trust gets lost and we end up like this. I won't buy very much on any platform now so to all vendors( I hate that word- sounds like a machine). To all vendors please provide a link to a personal site or a paypal alternative for a private sale.
I honeltly don't know what else to suggest, we have been forced into this position. I'd rather not share my models then promote ai on any site.
We the model maker are the product here. Our patience and skill developed over many years and at much cost for the software and hardware. Why should we share with AI?
I only buy models I really want and if it supports a particular artist / model maker.
I can make most things myself but do like to collect and use other peoples work, I like to interact with them and get to know the person behind the product. I have made a lot of friends I have great respect for and genuinely care about them and their's. I believe this is called community in an industry and it builds a strong foundation. AI destroys this. Simply the community breaks down , conflicts and arguments develop. Trust gets lost and we end up like this. I won't buy very much on any platform now so to all vendors( I hate that word- sounds like a machine). To all vendors please provide a link to a personal site or a paypal alternative for a private sale.
I honeltly don't know what else to suggest, we have been forced into this position. I'd rather not share my models then promote ai on any site.
We the model maker are the product here. Our patience and skill developed over many years and at much cost for the software and hardware. Why should we share with AI?
Tenserknot
Karma: 9,870
Tue, May 12This was supposed to be the site that favored artists over AI, that's why its so unexpected.
Everwild
Karma: 10,474
Wed, May 13I never expected to like using Daz. I tried it and it just sort of stuck. It has always felt a bit like collaborative art to me, because I take the beautiful models others make and I turn them into the characters I've had in my head for years. I guess I'm grateful for the few years I had before all of this to learn lighting and make better images. Maybe with another few years, I could even stretch further beyond the limited capabilities I currently possess.
3D printing made things easier for people, too. I think the difference is that no one is shoving a 3D printer down my throat and making it impossible for me to sculpt without being able to opt out of that technology (and personally, this is one of the things I resent most about the onset of AI).
Now, I've grown distrustful of the Daz store, too. And, the thing that I really just cannot wrap my head around is why anyone would so willingly embrace their own obsolescence:
"Buy my AI-slop!"
Um, why? AI has made everything so accessible, we can now just generate our own slop, kthxbai!
"Wait. Why can't I make my house payment this month?"
(Not at all intended to make light of those vendors/artists with genuine concerns about their future, because I expect you're out there, too.)
3D printing made things easier for people, too. I think the difference is that no one is shoving a 3D printer down my throat and making it impossible for me to sculpt without being able to opt out of that technology (and personally, this is one of the things I resent most about the onset of AI).
Now, I've grown distrustful of the Daz store, too. And, the thing that I really just cannot wrap my head around is why anyone would so willingly embrace their own obsolescence:
"Buy my AI-slop!"
Um, why? AI has made everything so accessible, we can now just generate our own slop, kthxbai!
"Wait. Why can't I make my house payment this month?"
(Not at all intended to make light of those vendors/artists with genuine concerns about their future, because I expect you're out there, too.)
davidrobbins81
Karma: 468
Fri, May 15"any store actively promoting ai over reel artist"
I don't see Renderhub actively promoting AI. I see them giving users tools to actively hide it if they choose.
I don't see Renderhub actively promoting AI. I see them giving users tools to actively hide it if they choose.
QUOTE: "This is the crux of it. the tool allows the customer to be their own supplier."
It's what they call " vertical integration " in the business world.
People don't seem to have a problem when big companies do it, such as when Apple became their own GPU supplier reducing external dependencies on others, which turned out to be quite the wise move Considering all the windows PC users now panicking that NVIDIA appears to have abandoned the retail consumer GPU market in favor of enterprise solutions for data centers.
But when a single individual decides to vertically integrate the creation of his images, animations,3D models and even his marketing materials into his own internal pipeline ,using AI,
All of a sudden, people, who specialized in those single areas, begin behaving as though they have some fundamental international human right to be hired by you to do those tasks instead.
This attitude is particularly prevalent in the indie comic space on Twitter/X
In a recent thread, someone, (presumably white) was promoting his latest indie comic when someone else complained that all of the characters in his comic appeared to be white and there was no so-called "black representation."
Now I ,A black man myself, posted a link to my recent graphic novel (80 pages produced with AI in 22 days.), which prominently features one of the main protagonists ,on my superhero team, who happens to be black.
I bluntly suggest they stop harassing the white comic creator and consider using use AI tools to create their own Black Comic characters
I was immediately dog piled and called all sorts of vile names with death threats from the two self, identified black people in the thread.
These very same black people ,who moments earlier, were admonishing a white comics writer for not providing them with black characters in his story,
began viciously assailing a fellow black person for having the audacity to create my own story and my own black characters using AI, instead of hiring black artist and writers and spending money on a book that will never turn a profit as I'm doing this just as a retired hobbyist.
I will be getting some physical prints made at my own expense, just for my own personal collection and distribution to family and close friends who might be interested.
This is what seems to upset many people the most is the freedom we are given from old legacy permission structures to which they remain willingly enslaved.
It's what they call " vertical integration " in the business world.
People don't seem to have a problem when big companies do it, such as when Apple became their own GPU supplier reducing external dependencies on others, which turned out to be quite the wise move Considering all the windows PC users now panicking that NVIDIA appears to have abandoned the retail consumer GPU market in favor of enterprise solutions for data centers.
But when a single individual decides to vertically integrate the creation of his images, animations,3D models and even his marketing materials into his own internal pipeline ,using AI,
All of a sudden, people, who specialized in those single areas, begin behaving as though they have some fundamental international human right to be hired by you to do those tasks instead.
This attitude is particularly prevalent in the indie comic space on Twitter/X
In a recent thread, someone, (presumably white) was promoting his latest indie comic when someone else complained that all of the characters in his comic appeared to be white and there was no so-called "black representation."
Now I ,A black man myself, posted a link to my recent graphic novel (80 pages produced with AI in 22 days.), which prominently features one of the main protagonists ,on my superhero team, who happens to be black.
I bluntly suggest they stop harassing the white comic creator and consider using use AI tools to create their own Black Comic characters
I was immediately dog piled and called all sorts of vile names with death threats from the two self, identified black people in the thread.
These very same black people ,who moments earlier, were admonishing a white comics writer for not providing them with black characters in his story,
began viciously assailing a fellow black person for having the audacity to create my own story and my own black characters using AI, instead of hiring black artist and writers and spending money on a book that will never turn a profit as I'm doing this just as a retired hobbyist.
I will be getting some physical prints made at my own expense, just for my own personal collection and distribution to family and close friends who might be interested.
This is what seems to upset many people the most is the freedom we are given from old legacy permission structures to which they remain willingly enslaved.
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Tenserknot
Karma: 9,870
Tue, May 12The biggest problem which is ongoing, is the ability to think independently. lot of sheeple follow the crowd.
At this point AI in entrenched and growing. None of us can change that. Venture capital has already decided it is the future.
No amount of screaming at the approaching tidal wave is going to stop it in any way.
Good luck with your comicbook and your vertically integrated studio. AI agents are going to take away a lot of jobs, might as well put one to work for you.
At this point AI in entrenched and growing. None of us can change that. Venture capital has already decided it is the future.
No amount of screaming at the approaching tidal wave is going to stop it in any way.
Good luck with your comicbook and your vertically integrated studio. AI agents are going to take away a lot of jobs, might as well put one to work for you.
Several posts in this thread were reported by community members and have been removed for violating the Terms of Use.
We want to remind everyone to review the User Conduct section of the RenderHub Terms of Use. Users will not use the website for any activity that affects the normal operations of the community. Personal attacks, harassment, and attempts to incite conflict are not acceptable here.
Our goal is to keep RenderHub a place for creativity, support, and civil conversation. We appreciate your cooperation in helping to maintain that standard.
We want to remind everyone to review the User Conduct section of the RenderHub Terms of Use. Users will not use the website for any activity that affects the normal operations of the community. Personal attacks, harassment, and attempts to incite conflict are not acceptable here.
Our goal is to keep RenderHub a place for creativity, support, and civil conversation. We appreciate your cooperation in helping to maintain that standard.
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bonj
Karma: 14,887
Wed, May 13Fantastic, how about deleting some of the ai slop that get repeatedly posted across many threads, cheers.
RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 16,285
Wed, May 13Per our AI Content Policy and Guidelines:
"...AI-generated images in forum posts are allowed to be used to continue a conversation, to illustrate a concept or support a point of view..."
https://www.renderhub.com/info/ai-content-policy
"...AI-generated images in forum posts are allowed to be used to continue a conversation, to illustrate a concept or support a point of view..."
https://www.renderhub.com/info/ai-content-policy
bonj
Karma: 14,887
Wed, May 13What is the policy around marketing ai aggressively and promoting a youtube slop accounts all at the same time as insulting industry professionals? It makes the professionals leave the site, would this be renderhubs preference?
To leave that low effort ai cartoon here (above) is to reward his actions. are you aware of that? Look at it, 3 low effort characters that even all have the exact same pose. You want that slop over real 3d content? If that is the case then I will go elsewhere but I won't go quietly.
To leave that low effort ai cartoon here (above) is to reward his actions. are you aware of that? Look at it, 3 low effort characters that even all have the exact same pose. You want that slop over real 3d content? If that is the case then I will go elsewhere but I won't go quietly.
RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 16,285
Wed, May 13At RenderHub, we value free expression and encourage a diversity of thought.
Except in extreme cases, we only remove forum posts that directly violate the Terms of Use and/or published policies.
Our goal is to ensure that the community remains a place where all voices can be heard, as long as they are shared in a constructive and civil way.
Except in extreme cases, we only remove forum posts that directly violate the Terms of Use and/or published policies.
Our goal is to ensure that the community remains a place where all voices can be heard, as long as they are shared in a constructive and civil way.
bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15@RenderHub Admin 1
You still have not addressed the bigger issue here. A certain individual who seems to have a hobby in insulting your site users while pushing a youtube channel. Why else would he immediately post another" the film industry is dead" comment if it were not to cause more conflict.
Not to mention the comment bellow also designed to get a rise, Your idea of freedom of speech is very one sided and it encourages conflict.
You still have not addressed the bigger issue here. A certain individual who seems to have a hobby in insulting your site users while pushing a youtube channel. Why else would he immediately post another" the film industry is dead" comment if it were not to cause more conflict.
Not to mention the comment bellow also designed to get a rise, Your idea of freedom of speech is very one sided and it encourages conflict.
I think the problem here is not the AI policy per se. Is someone diverting the narrative y making excuses to continuously post his videos to promote his channel.
There was no need to place that video there, the anecdote about 'black representation' don't even had anything to do with AI except the poster fixation to make everything about it.
There was no need to place that video there, the anecdote about 'black representation' don't even had anything to do with AI except the poster fixation to make everything about it.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,773
Thu, May 14We could always move these conversations over to Sade's forums at 3DShards. Her place is (thankfully) AI slop free.
bonj
Karma: 14,887
Thu, May 14Good idea, I just noticed as of April 13, 2026, 3DShards will no longer accept new products that have utilized AI in their creation process.
This is fantastic news for people like myself.
This is fantastic news for people like myself.
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 2,871
Thu, May 143D Shards? That website sucks. It might be "AI slop free", but the site looks like it's just "slopped" together. It's a total mishmash of WordPress plugins. I'm surprised that any quality seller would want their products to appear there.
bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15If shards are going to stand by the artist then I will stand with them.
Quote:At RenderHub, we value free expression and encourage a diversity of thought.
And for that we are thankful
long live Renderhub!!!
And for that we are thankful
long live Renderhub!!!
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stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 2,871
Thu, May 14Even though I don't like AI-generated images and videos, I'll have to agree with you on this. It wouldn't be right for RenderHub to censor everyone who had a differing opinion.
I'm not surprised there is so much negativity surrounding AI, it's a scary subject, but at the bottom of it, it is only another tool. In the hands of a mediocre artist it turns out slop, the same way 3D rendering, photo-editing, and cave drawings do.
The problem is it turns out massive amounts of slop quickly, but in the hands of a talented creative, it turns out some really impressive work..
It also has the capability of completely changing how we go about things, the same way, well Lotus 1-2-3 changed how accounting was done, WordPerfect changed document creation, Autocad changed drafting.... the point is we've been dealing with computer automation of tasks for decades now. This really isn't anything new.
Change is both exciting and scary. It's also pretty unstoppable, life is all about change.
So how is writing double entry ledger lines with a quill pen by the light of a candle coming along Bob Cratchit?
If our communications systems are allowing a flood of mediocre works, no matter how they were created, it's the fault of our communications systems, not AI. Facebook, TicTok, Youtube, Spottily, etc were flooded with slop long before AI added its pile.
If AI allows me to do something quicker and better than I am doing it now, I'm going to use it. If it doesn't, I'm not going to bother with it.
If an artist uses AI to create a great product I want to use, I'll buy it. If it's a pile of slop I won't, just like I won't by slop created with 3D tools.
Isn't that the intelligent way to go about it?
The problem is it turns out massive amounts of slop quickly, but in the hands of a talented creative, it turns out some really impressive work..
It also has the capability of completely changing how we go about things, the same way, well Lotus 1-2-3 changed how accounting was done, WordPerfect changed document creation, Autocad changed drafting.... the point is we've been dealing with computer automation of tasks for decades now. This really isn't anything new.
Change is both exciting and scary. It's also pretty unstoppable, life is all about change.
So how is writing double entry ledger lines with a quill pen by the light of a candle coming along Bob Cratchit?
If our communications systems are allowing a flood of mediocre works, no matter how they were created, it's the fault of our communications systems, not AI. Facebook, TicTok, Youtube, Spottily, etc were flooded with slop long before AI added its pile.
If AI allows me to do something quicker and better than I am doing it now, I'm going to use it. If it doesn't, I'm not going to bother with it.
If an artist uses AI to create a great product I want to use, I'll buy it. If it's a pile of slop I won't, just like I won't by slop created with 3D tools.
Isn't that the intelligent way to go about it?
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darkart1
Karma: 2,539
Fri, May 15"The problem is it turns out massive amounts of slop quickly"
"...etc were flooded with slop long before AI added its pile"
You're right about that. There was plenty of garbage long before AI was a thing. Now it's a garbage avalanche.
"...etc were flooded with slop long before AI added its pile"
You're right about that. There was plenty of garbage long before AI was a thing. Now it's a garbage avalanche.
bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15ai is not just another tool. it's a financial weapon designed to destroy industries and force all resource into the hands of a small group of already rich old men. The 4th industrial revolution is not designed to aid civilization and give us the tools to produce anything, it's designed to take everything we the little people have, including our freedom and later our bodily autonomy. Make your ai assisted "art" all you like but sooner or later you will be forced to see the bigger picture.
diogenese19348
Karma: 714
Fri, May 15bonj, while huge corporations are putting up massive data centers for centralized processing there is nothing inherent in AI technology that dictates that needs to be the case. Yeah, Microsoft, Apple, Google et al would like you to be strapped to their vision, but you know, there is an independent programmer from Turkey who just harnessed AI to run in 4 GB of VRAM on your desktop to translate pictures into DAZ3D pose files. That isn't a fluke. Agents can run independently of the web and data centers and five years from now the concept of building huge data centers to run AI may seem like a quaint old fashioned idea.
It all depends on whether society allows a few huge corporations to monopolize things, but we have the same issues with things like medical care, drug companies, right to repair, and privacy. AI is just another front in the same battle.
It all depends on whether society allows a few huge corporations to monopolize things, but we have the same issues with things like medical care, drug companies, right to repair, and privacy. AI is just another front in the same battle.
bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15Yes exactly it's all very invasive, overwhelming and extremely destructive on all fronts. That 4 g of vram will get lower I imagine.
Used to be you needed a 100 person crew to get cinematic footage.
Now a just a couple people can produce, film and edit, an entire feature film in a week.
Now a just a couple people can produce, film and edit, an entire feature film in a week.
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evarest
Karma: 279
Fri, May 15By that logic you can spend months in pastry school learning how to bake extraordinary cakes.
Or you can walk into a bathroom with a silver tray and call whatever you put on it a cake.
Technically, they’re both “cakes.If given the choice, which one would most people actually want to eat?
Or you can walk into a bathroom with a silver tray and call whatever you put on it a cake.
Technically, they’re both “cakes.If given the choice, which one would most people actually want to eat?
diogenese19348
Karma: 714
Fri, May 15That's not a particularly good analogy, the technology for film making has changed vastly, the technology for baking hasn't, although there have been advances in measuring and keeping a steady temperature in the oven which helps.
You still need the training to make a good movie, the tools to make it have just changed. Has for the music industry too, It costs much less to produce an album now then when the Beatles were doing it. Or even 30 years ago for that matter.
But without the proper training, it is just as easy to make a crappy movie today as it was back in the days of the Sci-Fi "B" movie. It just takes less time and expense
And lord knows it has gotten way quicker to make crappy music
You still need the training to make a good movie, the tools to make it have just changed. Has for the music industry too, It costs much less to produce an album now then when the Beatles were doing it. Or even 30 years ago for that matter.
But without the proper training, it is just as easy to make a crappy movie today as it was back in the days of the Sci-Fi "B" movie. It just takes less time and expense
And lord knows it has gotten way quicker to make crappy music
bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15@diogenese19348
I completely agree with what you said here. However the real revolution has already happened with digital in the mid 90s. generative movies will and have already become a reality but few will ever be taken seriously for exactly the reason you stated.
30 years ago you could only include up to 5 mins of digital footage per 60 mins in your broadcast production. This soon changed but for around 5 years we low budget Indy's had to find workarounds or hire expensive pro kit taking a large chunk of our budgets.
The real revolution was digital editing as cutting film was very expensive. I shot on digital a lot back then and was one of the first nonlinear editors in my country. I still have some of my mini dv backup masters that were saved from a warehouse fire.
In all honesty I believe using ai to take shortcuts will dumb down the creative process, This is the underlying reason I personally will not use anything generative. I enjoy what I do and do not want to farm it out to the corporations.
I completely agree with what you said here. However the real revolution has already happened with digital in the mid 90s. generative movies will and have already become a reality but few will ever be taken seriously for exactly the reason you stated.
30 years ago you could only include up to 5 mins of digital footage per 60 mins in your broadcast production. This soon changed but for around 5 years we low budget Indy's had to find workarounds or hire expensive pro kit taking a large chunk of our budgets.
The real revolution was digital editing as cutting film was very expensive. I shot on digital a lot back then and was one of the first nonlinear editors in my country. I still have some of my mini dv backup masters that were saved from a warehouse fire.
In all honesty I believe using ai to take shortcuts will dumb down the creative process, This is the underlying reason I personally will not use anything generative. I enjoy what I do and do not want to farm it out to the corporations.
diogenese19348
Karma: 714
Fri, May 15If you've never heard of them, The Stupendium. They just bought a robot camera track to shoot this one with. There is one person in the video. All practical effects and editing.
I think that's true, and I think it's one of the reasons I dislike a lot of AI generated content. It's all 'look at the special effects', 'look at the perfect lighting', 'Look at the lipsync', 'look at the characters', well ok but if the story is crap then it's crap. Also the number of TV shows I've seen where the writer(s) had one good idea, and the rest of it is padded out with recycled stuff.
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davidrobbins81
Karma: 468
Fri, May 15"if the story is crap then it's crap"
True! AI can't replace the true creative mind. It just sucks that there's SO MUCH of this crap.
True! AI can't replace the true creative mind. It just sucks that there's SO MUCH of this crap.
For anyone who doe's not understand why I'm so passionate for my craft and trade I recommend this helpful and informative channel. There's much more to cinema than just the images.
The House of Tabula https://www.youtube.com/@TheHouseofTabula/videos
Art is Not Content
The House of Tabula https://www.youtube.com/@TheHouseofTabula/videos
Art is Not Content
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Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,881
Sat, May 16Thank you for sharing the channel. I am not sure why I had not come across it before. It is right up my alley.
Personal anecdote. I remember my better half suffering after being forced to train the person who would take over his job. He never complained, but we all felt it in the house. He perhaps had a choice not to, but he wanted to stretch our livelihood as best as he could while trying to find a new job. That was very bad of my better half's employer, and to this day I have banned their services from our lives.
But AI (humans using it of course,) is not giving artists that choice. Even dead artists are being forced to train their replacements.
Personal anecdote. I remember my better half suffering after being forced to train the person who would take over his job. He never complained, but we all felt it in the house. He perhaps had a choice not to, but he wanted to stretch our livelihood as best as he could while trying to find a new job. That was very bad of my better half's employer, and to this day I have banned their services from our lives.
But AI (humans using it of course,) is not giving artists that choice. Even dead artists are being forced to train their replacements.
Quote: Used to be you needed a 100 person crew to get cinematic footage.
Now a just a couple people can produce, film and edit, an entire feature film in a week.
Welcome to the age of post, scarcity in the creative fields..
It was the natural organic scarcity that existed amongst the general population, whereby only a small handful of people, Where actually capable of producing visual media to say nothing of really good "art."
it is my opinion that at some point, people began to attach their entire identities to their artistic processes rather than the outcome of those processes.
This enabled people to insulate themselves in myopic little mutual validation communities where everyone was equally celebrated as long as they performed the correct process in creating their "art."
No matter how objectively good or bad the outcome.
This feeling of self-importance seems particularly exacerbated if the approved processes is slow painful and tedious
because it resulted in actual "suffering" on the part of the artist and they believe that this suffering somehow added more humanity or " soul" to the final result of their process.
Add to that in the modern world, these processes
demand that you go in hire fellow artists, who specialized in adjacent areas that you don't, as some sort of moral obligation.
I had a moderator at blender artist.org. call me "cheap" because I used a throw away AI Generated jingle for some cartoon animations that I made for my young grandsons
made with the REALLUSION cartoon, animator software.
(not AI)
Now a just a couple people can produce, film and edit, an entire feature film in a week.
Welcome to the age of post, scarcity in the creative fields..
It was the natural organic scarcity that existed amongst the general population, whereby only a small handful of people, Where actually capable of producing visual media to say nothing of really good "art."
it is my opinion that at some point, people began to attach their entire identities to their artistic processes rather than the outcome of those processes.
This enabled people to insulate themselves in myopic little mutual validation communities where everyone was equally celebrated as long as they performed the correct process in creating their "art."
No matter how objectively good or bad the outcome.
This feeling of self-importance seems particularly exacerbated if the approved processes is slow painful and tedious
because it resulted in actual "suffering" on the part of the artist and they believe that this suffering somehow added more humanity or " soul" to the final result of their process.
Add to that in the modern world, these processes
demand that you go in hire fellow artists, who specialized in adjacent areas that you don't, as some sort of moral obligation.
I had a moderator at blender artist.org. call me "cheap" because I used a throw away AI Generated jingle for some cartoon animations that I made for my young grandsons
made with the REALLUSION cartoon, animator software.
(not AI)
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"made it impossible for small independent creators to even get a project off the ground unless he submits to these top down permission regimes."
What a ridiculous concept this is. Digital has been here 30 years. Everyone now has a camera in their pocket and pro video editing software is available for free. Distribution has never been so easy. There are no restrictions and no establishment to conform to.
All it take to make your own production now is the effort and motivation.
What a ridiculous concept this is. Digital has been here 30 years. Everyone now has a camera in their pocket and pro video editing software is available for free. Distribution has never been so easy. There are no restrictions and no establishment to conform to.
All it take to make your own production now is the effort and motivation.
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bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15My company had 3 full time directors in a partnership. An external crew of around 5 other key people. We did all the filming , editing, script writing, soundtrack, coding, absolutely all in house.
davidrobbins81
Karma: 468
Fri, May 15"Digital has been here 30 years"
So let me get this straight, because you sound a bit hypocritical in this thread. What side of the fence were you on when digital was replacing film? And how long did it take for you to finally accept reality?
So let me get this straight, because you sound a bit hypocritical in this thread. What side of the fence were you on when digital was replacing film? And how long did it take for you to finally accept reality?
bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15I was young then and ambitious. I adopted digital very early for my own productions but for freelance work film was still top dog.
Digital made production cheap, especially editing. An avid desk and later on pc with premier or speed razor made it accessible.
Traditional production rules still applied especially if wanting to find employment and digital was a great way to get experience.
I don't care what tools people use but I care what I consume and if any craft went into it. You could make a very good ai movie or art movie if it was done with the right mindset. I likely won't consume it but good luck...
I'm in a position were I can stay traditional.
Ai is not easy to compare to the digital revolution, they are very different beast. The real issue here is that ai is being pushed on us and when we refuse to eat it! we get attacked.
Anyway I'm off for the weekend but feel free to ask anything else.
Digital made production cheap, especially editing. An avid desk and later on pc with premier or speed razor made it accessible.
Traditional production rules still applied especially if wanting to find employment and digital was a great way to get experience.
I don't care what tools people use but I care what I consume and if any craft went into it. You could make a very good ai movie or art movie if it was done with the right mindset. I likely won't consume it but good luck...
I'm in a position were I can stay traditional.
Ai is not easy to compare to the digital revolution, they are very different beast. The real issue here is that ai is being pushed on us and when we refuse to eat it! we get attacked.
Anyway I'm off for the weekend but feel free to ask anything else.
Omg everybody watch the slop I generated this morning omg I destroyed cinema industry hollywood is sueing me but you will never understand that 3D is deadh. Daz 3D is dead Genesis 9>Victoria 5.1
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bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15The other vid you posted was an entertaining 40 mins thanks for the laughs.
Quote: What a ridiculous concept this is. Digital has been here 30 years. Everyone now has a camera in their pocket and pro video editing software is available for free.
You mean same digital video tech that DESTROYED the careers of the traditional chemical film engineers
at Eastman kodak??
Quote:Distribution has never been so easy. There are no restrictions and no establishment to conform to
Really?? try getting a "distribution deal" of a film
that is critical of certain… (unnamed groups or nation states)
or try getting a Payment processor to process income from online supporters if your movie/prints for sale etc. are declared to be "problematic"
Kickstarter just banned "adult" content.( no more crown funding of nudie girl comics)
Quote: My company had 3 full time directors in a partnership. An external crew of around 5 other key people. We did all the filming , editing, script writing, soundtrack, coding, absolutely all in house.'
Lovely Mate, what types of films are you making?
I like Action ,intrigue VXF heavy,hard sci-fi/space epics,(with good stories of course)
Shooting it live on location is tens of thousands of dollars in permits alone before the cost of insurance for the entire production.
and sorry "phone cameras" just won't cut it for what I may want so there is pro equipment rentals and catering along side paying human actors .
But silly me, I can just use Unreal engine and the free
metahumans and do it all in house with "traditional" CG right?
Sure I can try but if I want some really professional
animation, at volume I need to hire a team of professionals
Pay 10K just to rent the studio for performance capture
and hire VFX pros who are expert in Houdini & Maya
and spend the next three or four years paying ongoing funding myproject.
or I could Just do what this former Unreal Engine filmmaker did,
and spend about $400 USD in "generation credits" and spend 4 days to produce films like this.
You mean same digital video tech that DESTROYED the careers of the traditional chemical film engineers
at Eastman kodak??
Quote:Distribution has never been so easy. There are no restrictions and no establishment to conform to
Really?? try getting a "distribution deal" of a film
that is critical of certain… (unnamed groups or nation states)
or try getting a Payment processor to process income from online supporters if your movie/prints for sale etc. are declared to be "problematic"
Kickstarter just banned "adult" content.( no more crown funding of nudie girl comics)
Quote: My company had 3 full time directors in a partnership. An external crew of around 5 other key people. We did all the filming , editing, script writing, soundtrack, coding, absolutely all in house.'
Lovely Mate, what types of films are you making?
I like Action ,intrigue VXF heavy,hard sci-fi/space epics,(with good stories of course)
Shooting it live on location is tens of thousands of dollars in permits alone before the cost of insurance for the entire production.
and sorry "phone cameras" just won't cut it for what I may want so there is pro equipment rentals and catering along side paying human actors .
But silly me, I can just use Unreal engine and the free
metahumans and do it all in house with "traditional" CG right?
Sure I can try but if I want some really professional
animation, at volume I need to hire a team of professionals
Pay 10K just to rent the studio for performance capture
and hire VFX pros who are expert in Houdini & Maya
and spend the next three or four years paying ongoing funding myproject.
or I could Just do what this former Unreal Engine filmmaker did,
and spend about $400 USD in "generation credits" and spend 4 days to produce films like this.
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bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15Please before responding take the time to watch some of The House of Tabula video's. I'm sure you would agree with much of it especially the parts about "outsider art" referencing many of the aspects you would resonate with. This argument should at least come to an end with us both disagreeing and that is fine. But be more open to others and maybe your opinions would be taken more seriously.
A camera will cost from around 500 quid a week. Hire it with a monitor and jib maybe even a tracking system and Steadicam and get an amazing deal. For low budget productions film off season as the hire house will have loads of kit not being used and will be happy to offer a deal.
If you do your pre production and schedule correctly you can shoot very low budget and take your time in post to add anything you like with effects. Ideally if you are a qualified or experienced animator and even model maker then you don't need a large fx crew as you can do it all yourself.
https://www.gearbooker.com/en/rent-cinema-video-cameras-sony-fx9-in-exeter-42263-l?SearchText=Sony+PXW-FX9+pa
https://vmi.tv/product-category/camera-hire/page/2/
If you do your pre production and schedule correctly you can shoot very low budget and take your time in post to add anything you like with effects. Ideally if you are a qualified or experienced animator and even model maker then you don't need a large fx crew as you can do it all yourself.
https://www.gearbooker.com/en/rent-cinema-video-cameras-sony-fx9-in-exeter-42263-l?SearchText=Sony+PXW-FX9+pa
https://vmi.tv/product-category/camera-hire/page/2/
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bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15I think someone is just frustrated and angry because they didn't go for it when they were young and now it's too late.
I'm sorry Tenserknot if this thread has fallen off track a couple times. I'm going to leave it for now and go do some work. Best regards everybody.
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Quote:I think someone is just frustrated and angry because they didn't go for it when they were young and now it's too late.
When I was young I used the tools of the time
as professional Graphic Designer for print
when any new tech was invented I embraced it which kept me employed enough to raise a family .
Now I am retired and just in time to enjoy creating graphic novels & short animations with incredible new AI tools.
Quote":Please before responding take the time to watch some of The House of Tabula video's. I'm sure you would agree with much of it especially the parts about "outsider art" referencing many of the aspects you would resonate with"
Saw it and…no ...just a bunch of the usual lofty self validating platitudes that justify strict adherence to the existing permission structures replete with nebulous definitions of "cannonized" art that have dictated HOW are visual media must be created and interpreted by the "enlightened."
I would take these online/youtube "art experts" more seriously if so many had not exposed themselves as complete phonies by viciously trashing an actual Monet painting ,like preprogrammed NPC's ,after hearing the term "AI" associated with it.
they could not even be bothered to do a reverse google image search before embarrassing themselves, they heard "AI" and went into rage filled attack mode.
Oh no Monet is slop!!
When I was young I used the tools of the time
as professional Graphic Designer for print
when any new tech was invented I embraced it which kept me employed enough to raise a family .
Now I am retired and just in time to enjoy creating graphic novels & short animations with incredible new AI tools.
Quote":Please before responding take the time to watch some of The House of Tabula video's. I'm sure you would agree with much of it especially the parts about "outsider art" referencing many of the aspects you would resonate with"
Saw it and…no ...just a bunch of the usual lofty self validating platitudes that justify strict adherence to the existing permission structures replete with nebulous definitions of "cannonized" art that have dictated HOW are visual media must be created and interpreted by the "enlightened."
I would take these online/youtube "art experts" more seriously if so many had not exposed themselves as complete phonies by viciously trashing an actual Monet painting ,like preprogrammed NPC's ,after hearing the term "AI" associated with it.
they could not even be bothered to do a reverse google image search before embarrassing themselves, they heard "AI" and went into rage filled attack mode.
Oh no Monet is slop!!
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bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15ART IS NOT FOR SALE by The House of Tabula is a 40 min investigation into the world of DIY Art, Otherness, Guerrilla Filmmaking and Outsider Art. A look into the fact that every artist is, in some form or another, an outsider.
The complete opposite of
"lofty self validating platitudes that justify strict adherence to the existing permission structures replete with nebulous definitions of "cannonized" art that have dictated HOW are visual media must be created and interpreted by the "enlightened."
You did not watch it or learn anything. You only seek conflict.
To quote Sean Connery in the film The Untouchables. " Here endeth the lesson".
The complete opposite of
"lofty self validating platitudes that justify strict adherence to the existing permission structures replete with nebulous definitions of "cannonized" art that have dictated HOW are visual media must be created and interpreted by the "enlightened."
You did not watch it or learn anything. You only seek conflict.
To quote Sean Connery in the film The Untouchables. " Here endeth the lesson".
Quote:"You did not watch it or learn anything…..
A look into the fact that every artist is, in some form or another, an outsider."
Tell me, Why are quoting this dross when you yourself don't actually practice or believe in it.
First I reject the appellation ""Artist" and never refer to myself as one,
Animator, Graphic Designer, Graphic Novelist,
"Visual Media Producer" ...hence "VMP comics"
Again what is more "radical" or "outsider" than dumping decades of time invested in learning acrylic painting on canvas fabricating my own frames for some of the paintings, with my own Mitre Box saw.
Teaching myself Desktop publishing software well enough ( after work hours) to become employed in the print design industry
( Adobe photoshop ,Illustrator,,Page maker,Quark Xpress)
later self learning 3D animation in C4D,Poser,Iclone,Blender,
And here (RETIRED) in my early 60's ,switching entirely to a controversial new paradigm shifting technology such as generative AI for animation, graphic novels even some lite graphic design with Grok agent mode.
I am the ultimate "outsider" while people like you angrily insist that creators like JSFILMZ and I conform to your permission structures on what software production methods we are allowed to use to tell our escapist stories
Such utter Hypocrisy.
A look into the fact that every artist is, in some form or another, an outsider."
Tell me, Why are quoting this dross when you yourself don't actually practice or believe in it.
First I reject the appellation ""Artist" and never refer to myself as one,
Animator, Graphic Designer, Graphic Novelist,
"Visual Media Producer" ...hence "VMP comics"
Again what is more "radical" or "outsider" than dumping decades of time invested in learning acrylic painting on canvas fabricating my own frames for some of the paintings, with my own Mitre Box saw.
Teaching myself Desktop publishing software well enough ( after work hours) to become employed in the print design industry
( Adobe photoshop ,Illustrator,,Page maker,Quark Xpress)
later self learning 3D animation in C4D,Poser,Iclone,Blender,
And here (RETIRED) in my early 60's ,switching entirely to a controversial new paradigm shifting technology such as generative AI for animation, graphic novels even some lite graphic design with Grok agent mode.
I am the ultimate "outsider" while people like you angrily insist that creators like JSFILMZ and I conform to your permission structures on what software production methods we are allowed to use to tell our escapist stories
Such utter Hypocrisy.
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bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15It was about films like the indie skate video's didn't you make a poser animation for for a low budget film aired at some film festivals? It was about pushing against the grain and making up your own rules.
This reminds me of feeding a baby, Go on have a tast , you may like it. It's good stuff.
This reminds me of feeding a baby, Go on have a tast , you may like it. It's good stuff.
bonj
Karma: 14,887
Fri, May 15"Tell me, Why are quoting this dross when you yourself don't actually practice or believe in it."
Quite the opposite, i do believe in the evolution of cinema over a long history of development and technical advances. You have to understand the medium and learn the rules to be able to bend and even break them. That's why it's called a craft and an art form.
Quite the opposite, i do believe in the evolution of cinema over a long history of development and technical advances. You have to understand the medium and learn the rules to be able to bend and even break them. That's why it's called a craft and an art form.
Quote :It was about films like the indie skate video's didn't you make a poser animation for for a low budget film aired at some film festivals?
Yes and at that time many in the Lightwave and C4D community warned that I should NOT use poser for
animation commission work because
"Poser is for losers & dweebs who only make bad naked vickie art"
But I used what I knew best at the time for making animations and My client(Blue LLamma Studios) actually loved the primitive "indie game vibe" look of Poser 6 animations rendered in C4D R11 and paid gladly and gave me the IMBD film
credit listing without my asking.
Quote:It was about pushing against the grain and making up your own rules.
Right, like dumping Blender,Iclone/Character creator,a recently purchased Cascaduer pro license, Reallusion Cartoon animator(2D) and MOHO pro 14(2D)
and using Grok and mage.space, and getting Superior results in both 2D/3D animation with cloth simulation, fluids effects smoke & pyro and producing an 80 page full color graphic novel ( already at the printer) in 22 days instead of 8 months to a year.
(Old dead methods violate my new rules)
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Wolf007
Karma: 297
Wed, May 20So, expressing legit concern and doubts in here is considered 'defamatory'?