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GLBAm I the one of the few people who see G9 as better? (from a outsider/artist)
395Thread Activity
Luxe MuseThu, Jul 09
Luxe MuseThu, Jul 09
IIIDMurasakiThu, Jul 09
MasterstrokeThu, Jul 09
MasterstrokeThu, Jul 09
IIIDMurasakiThu, Jul 09
When I saw G9 get announced my reaction as someone who dabbles in DAZ and has tested wrapping and just playing around with different figures.
I saw G9 as a big improvement being I'm more interested in 'realism" and found DAZ always had a look to the figures/morphs.
G8.1 did fix the neck texture issues they in previous figures where it would become low rez and you see the textile density different.
But that was really all.
G9:
- Has a more natural looking and better base proportions which does not have his uncanny body or DAZ look.
- It does a more standard A pose, of having the feet planted on the ground instead of angled which makes it weird for doing shoes, as you'd need to straighten the legs to model or attach them if non a G8 figure then revert them.
- It has a better UV map layout that seems more standard and address the UV neck issue without creating another surface.
- And the big one was the topology of the figure, it was more even and typical and had more resolution for doing stuff like wraps, which helps capture more of the targets shape without needing tricks or maps. and makes it better for doing toon morphs since the neck is has a more better topology and does not break doing exaggerated portions. And the ear where so low res for many generations, I found shocking how low detailed they are when doing wraps.
- It also the figure is more sculpt friendly with being how the quads are more uniformed.
- I also preferred how the eyes and gums were seperated, as needing to line them up or keep them together can be annoying, and having to be more careful with vertex order.
I didn't do a lot with animations or posing or using IRAY comming from Blender so this is more an hobby artist using DAZ as it's changed or (not changed, still the same UI when I first opened up decades ago)
Like the nipple/navel thing and chest thing is a valid complaint but I don't really see a issue unless you are doing very large breast (and Metahumans use a unified mesh also instead of a split) but don't use it every day so don't have the same pet peeves as people more invested in the ecosystem.
- As my main goal in using it was always taking it out of DAZ and into Blender.
Just my thoughts seeing the recent shit show that is DAZ 6.... and various forums.
I saw G9 as a big improvement being I'm more interested in 'realism" and found DAZ always had a look to the figures/morphs.
G8.1 did fix the neck texture issues they in previous figures where it would become low rez and you see the textile density different.
But that was really all.
G9:
- Has a more natural looking and better base proportions which does not have his uncanny body or DAZ look.
- It does a more standard A pose, of having the feet planted on the ground instead of angled which makes it weird for doing shoes, as you'd need to straighten the legs to model or attach them if non a G8 figure then revert them.
- It has a better UV map layout that seems more standard and address the UV neck issue without creating another surface.
- And the big one was the topology of the figure, it was more even and typical and had more resolution for doing stuff like wraps, which helps capture more of the targets shape without needing tricks or maps. and makes it better for doing toon morphs since the neck is has a more better topology and does not break doing exaggerated portions. And the ear where so low res for many generations, I found shocking how low detailed they are when doing wraps.
- It also the figure is more sculpt friendly with being how the quads are more uniformed.
- I also preferred how the eyes and gums were seperated, as needing to line them up or keep them together can be annoying, and having to be more careful with vertex order.
I didn't do a lot with animations or posing or using IRAY comming from Blender so this is more an hobby artist using DAZ as it's changed or (not changed, still the same UI when I first opened up decades ago)
Like the nipple/navel thing and chest thing is a valid complaint but I don't really see a issue unless you are doing very large breast (and Metahumans use a unified mesh also instead of a split) but don't use it every day so don't have the same pet peeves as people more invested in the ecosystem.
- As my main goal in using it was always taking it out of DAZ and into Blender.
Just my thoughts seeing the recent shit show that is DAZ 6.... and various forums.
! REPORT
From the perspective of someone who doesn't intend to use Genesis inside DAZ Studio , G9 does indeed look neutral or better. In the case of Blender I would still prefer a lower poly version for non close-up renders.
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! REPORT
For me it isn't just about which figure is better or worse. I use all my DAZ content in Blender too, though I don't think that's a major factor for me either. I do occasionally make nude renders and the no nipples thing put me off Genesis 9 a little. But the main factor is just the amount of content I already have for Genesis 8. I have dozens of Genesis 8 characters, male and female, adults and kids - though finding convincing boys is much harder than finding convincing women, girls and men. I did make the effort and I used some of the adult male characters I have as a basis for making a few boys. I also have a fair amount of clothing for them, enough variety to do historic renders, fantasy renders, science fiction renders and contemporary images too. So buying into a new figure of any kind seems like a complete waste of money if the figures and other content I have can do what I want. If I see a big realism or technical advantage in a figure then yes, I might buy into it, but as I have never done facial close-ups G9 has no advantages over G8 for my use case.
So am I anti-G9? Nope, it looks good. I am just not interested because G8 is good too and I already have it. For people and the things they wear I have everything I need for the kind of images I want to make, so I am no longer buying unless stuff is on sale at stupidly low prices, or is just so great that I cannot resist. The remaining 3D products I do need for the stories I want to illustrate don't exist in any of the 3D marketplaces I have found, so I will have to make them.
So am I anti-G9? Nope, it looks good. I am just not interested because G8 is good too and I already have it. For people and the things they wear I have everything I need for the kind of images I want to make, so I am no longer buying unless stuff is on sale at stupidly low prices, or is just so great that I cannot resist. The remaining 3D products I do need for the stories I want to illustrate don't exist in any of the 3D marketplaces I have found, so I will have to make them.
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! REPORT
quotes:
"G9:
- Has a more natural looking and better base proportions which does not have his uncanny body or DAZ look."
actually true, but
the base female body shape is still stylized and it is not getting more realistic by not dialing it up to 100%
"- It does a more standard A pose, of having the feet planted on the ground instead of angled which makes it weird for doing shoes, as you'd need to straighten the legs to model or attach them if non a G8 figure then revert them."
Yet again, this advantage is never used. Instead we have again those stylized strangled Hip-Waist-Thigh shapes. On the other hand, My take is, that G8's leg stance makes it easier to create JCMs.
"- And the big one was the topology of the figure, it was more even and typical and had more resolution for doing stuff like wraps, which helps capture more of the targets shape without needing tricks or maps. and makes it better for doing toon morphs since the neck is has a more better topology and does not break doing exaggerated portions. And the ear where so low res for many generations, I found shocking how low detailed they are when doing wraps."
I see G9' topology more as a disadvantage, than advantage. sure, I do like higher base resolution, but I absolutely dislike the lack of edge loops. That kind of a topology, that follows the characters body shape, in order to make it easier to bend and add morphs to it. Most notorious the lack of loops to shape belly buttons and female breasts easier.
I think, there should be a way to do it without the need of HD, which are accessable to vendors only.
"- It also the figure is more sculpt friendly with being how the quads are more uniformed."
Again rather a disadvantage in my view, for DAZ Studio is not zbrush, made for static characters. DAZ figures should be posable and animatable.
I see all these cracks in the mesh when posing, because quads are colapsing and their lines are intersecting with each other giving nasty polygon artefacts in renderings.
the only way to avoid it, is to crank up mesh resolution.
"- I also preferred how the eyes and gums were seperated, as needing to line them up or keep them together can be annoying, and having to be more careful with vertex order."
I have no idea, what's wrong with those eyes. They just don't follow custom character shapes. what has never been a problem with G8 is now rocket science with G9.
Those seperate parts make G9 extra difficult to deal with.
"Like the nipple/navel thing and chest thing is a valid complaint but I don't really see a issue unless you are doing very large breast (and Metahumans use a unified mesh also instead of a split) but don't use it every day so don't have the same pet peeves as people more invested in the ecosystem."
Here is the point, where I think DAZ or more Taffi, has been chasing after MetaHuman. They were hoping to establish G9 as their MetaHuman-esc base figure.
That's why I think G9 is a portrait only figure.
All its advantages are focused to the facial character and expression features. The body shape is just a cloth manekin.
This reminds me of old Victoria 4, which I personally viewed as a huge fail, yet people loved it.
I even prefer Genesis 3, maybe even Genesis 2 over Genesis 9.
If Genesis 9 was a male figure with eyes and mouth embeded, I'd be all on board, because that quad topology is working better with male characters, but for female characters, G9 is unusable for me.
It is not enough to have a character, that looks nice in A, -T, or I-Stance. You want to bring it alive in poses, animations or scenes without sending her to zbrush and spend houres to fix joints and mesh issues.
I've tried hard to somehow like G9. I've purchased characters, created custom morphs, added custom JCMs.
My conclusion is, that G9 is not for me.
Absolutely not.
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! REPORT
This has been a hobby for me for over 20 years now. I'm not a modeler. I've always just used the shapes and morphs available, spinning the dials to get what I want.
I think G9 has a great face and head.
Where it fails for me are the breasts.
They have an denser mesh under and between them that makes reshaping them into a male presenting chest difficult, especially one that doesn't appear more defined than the rest of the anatomy.
I don't render women often, when I do they aren't topless. The available morphs and shapes out there are focused on female presenting breasts.
Personally, I hope G10 gives female characters a geografted breast option to give them the higher definition, shaping and posing options that customer wants.
I think G9 has a great face and head.
Where it fails for me are the breasts.
They have an denser mesh under and between them that makes reshaping them into a male presenting chest difficult, especially one that doesn't appear more defined than the rest of the anatomy.
I don't render women often, when I do they aren't topless. The available morphs and shapes out there are focused on female presenting breasts.
Personally, I hope G10 gives female characters a geografted breast option to give them the higher definition, shaping and posing options that customer wants.
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! REPORT
I created my first character for Genesis 9 and am now working on a Genesis 8.1 character because about 3 times more people use Genesis 8/8.1 than Genesis 9.
I assumed that Genesis 8/8.1 would be easier to work with, but found out the opposite to be true. The edge loops on Genesis 8/8.1 may seem better for the nipples and navel, but the mesh resolution is still low enough that HD morphs or geo-grafts are still required for those. The lack of uniform topology in the arms and legs on Genesis 8/8.1 makes it harder to create bending morphs for the knees, thighs, and elbows (and wrist bend morphs are a no-go due to arrowhead shaped polygons on them).
I assumed that Genesis 8/8.1 would be easier to work with, but found out the opposite to be true. The edge loops on Genesis 8/8.1 may seem better for the nipples and navel, but the mesh resolution is still low enough that HD morphs or geo-grafts are still required for those. The lack of uniform topology in the arms and legs on Genesis 8/8.1 makes it harder to create bending morphs for the knees, thighs, and elbows (and wrist bend morphs are a no-go due to arrowhead shaped polygons on them).
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! REPORT
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,881
Tue, Jun 30I would say it’s not that either is bad, only that they are different. But the ecosystem is what’s bad. It’s condescending and in a way tyrannical.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,881
Tue, Jun 30But not as tyrannical as not giving us an edit button for posts 
There I went submitting without finishing my thoughts.
A-anyways. I'm working on poses, for example, that would greatly benefit from micro-pressures and deformations that are natural in the human body but can't be achieved with posing alone. But DAZ says we are too stupid or too plebeian to make those micro-pressure morphs by ourselves. And good luck throwing this post in the DAZ forum.
There I went submitting without finishing my thoughts.A-anyways. I'm working on poses, for example, that would greatly benefit from micro-pressures and deformations that are natural in the human body but can't be achieved with posing alone. But DAZ says we are too stupid or too plebeian to make those micro-pressure morphs by ourselves. And good luck throwing this post in the DAZ forum.
Hellcat
Karma: 1,025
Tue, Jun 30I agree 1,000 percent on the ecosystem. And also the edit function. I in no way dislike Genesis 8/8.1 and my content library for 8/8.1 is ten times bigger than my Genesis 9 one. I feel 8/8.1 benefits the user more (as it should) and 9 benefits the creator more. I hope with Pose Studio, we get figures that makes everybody happy (or something close to it).
I find G9 facial structure so much better than G8/8.1. Especially when it comes to expressions. Since I am an older person, I like the selections and quality of the older female characters over G8/8.1 figures.
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! REPORT
Thanks for the replies very unique hearing peoples opinions from people who really use the DAZ than dabble with the software despite playing around during Genesis 2.
I come from more the wrapping side, using it wrap over other meshes or sculpts.
It's hard to judge from someone who is not in the ecosystem of DAZ.
Thanks for the insights
I come from more the wrapping side, using it wrap over other meshes or sculpts.
It's hard to judge from someone who is not in the ecosystem of DAZ.
Thanks for the insights
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! REPORT
Up until the recent changes here I was happy to see the wide selection of G9 assets. I completely left G8 when G9 came out and never looked back. Better facial expressions, shared assets (Male and Female clothes… poses… etc) and all the issues folks had with G9 initially have largely been resolved (arguably outside the anatomical parts, which can be mitigated with vendor products or some light sculpting) I understand some
folks don’t want to rely on that and respect their choice but for me G9 is the only genesis platform I use. I don’t know how prevalent the usage of either is but DAZ survived exclusively on G9 for many years (only recently allowing a broader G8 support on their site). They also managed to fund development of a new release of their Studio platform during this time so anyone arguing there is not a strong market for G9 is delusional. Again, there is not an insignificant support for G8 but it is no where near total or significant to force DAZ to abandon G9 over the past several years. Anyway, I am off this platform going forward and rethinking the hobby completely due to the recent crackdown by Credit Card processors to anything remotely adult… I spent a significant amount of money on supporting the platform that this site ( and probably DAZ themselves) will not be receiving going forward. Try both platforms and decide for yourself what you prefer and I wish you and everyone good luck and good times ahead!
folks don’t want to rely on that and respect their choice but for me G9 is the only genesis platform I use. I don’t know how prevalent the usage of either is but DAZ survived exclusively on G9 for many years (only recently allowing a broader G8 support on their site). They also managed to fund development of a new release of their Studio platform during this time so anyone arguing there is not a strong market for G9 is delusional. Again, there is not an insignificant support for G8 but it is no where near total or significant to force DAZ to abandon G9 over the past several years. Anyway, I am off this platform going forward and rethinking the hobby completely due to the recent crackdown by Credit Card processors to anything remotely adult… I spent a significant amount of money on supporting the platform that this site ( and probably DAZ themselves) will not be receiving going forward. Try both platforms and decide for yourself what you prefer and I wish you and everyone good luck and good times ahead!
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! REPORT
I enjoy both g8.1 and 9; but i find myself using g9 more. Most of the initial issues have been fixed through products and whatever, so it is just a clear winner for me.....however i wont ditch my g8.1 characters either xD
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! REPORT
Check my store, I have a vew G9 charaters with true 8K skin textures and they look very good.
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I completely moved over to G9 due to the skin textures. The moment I first loaded the CJ character into the scene and the skin immediately looked an order of magnitude better than any G8 or G8.1 without needing any tweaks - the decision was made. Then, a huge number of excellent quality hairs came out, which I also really missed on G8. Yes, the limb bending is awful, but it's a fixable issue.
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! REPORT
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,702
Thu, Jul 09I am not sure, what makes G9's skin look better.
Skin material is not figure specific.
G9 and G8.1 use DAZ PBR skin material, which look more realistic, the darker the skin textures are.
So there is no real G9 advantage.
Correcting limb bending is no easy fix, if done right, because every character has its own challenges.
Skin material is not figure specific.
G9 and G8.1 use DAZ PBR skin material, which look more realistic, the darker the skin textures are.
So there is no real G9 advantage.
Correcting limb bending is no easy fix, if done right, because every character has its own challenges.
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,702
Thu, Jul 09Roxy G8F with Omni Skin Shader.
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/92725/omni-skin-shader
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/92725/omni-skin-shader
IIIDMurasaki
Karma: 860
Thu, Jul 09That’s exactly my point! No out-of-the-box G8 skin ever satisfied me; I always had to tweak something. You got a great result after putting in the effort. Do these settings work just as well for any G8/8.1 skin?
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,881
Thu, Jul 09I agree with Masterstroke. The skin isn't influenced by the Genesis generation (aside from UV issues in G8 around the neck).
What you see is more artists moving to PBRSkin and putting a little bit more effort into normal maps. But it varies. A lot of people still go for Uber (which is fine, Uber is great, especially for lighter skins where it makes it easier for the creator. It's not impossible to do with PBRSkin, it just takes a tiny bit more effort).
Having said that, I love G9, but for selfish reasons, as for me it's a lot easier to sculpt and texture given the fewer maps (only 7).
What you see is more artists moving to PBRSkin and putting a little bit more effort into normal maps. But it varies. A lot of people still go for Uber (which is fine, Uber is great, especially for lighter skins where it makes it easier for the creator. It's not impossible to do with PBRSkin, it just takes a tiny bit more effort).
Having said that, I love G9, but for selfish reasons, as for me it's a lot easier to sculpt and texture given the fewer maps (only 7).
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,881
Thu, Jul 09***Norma Maps*** (I hit submit too fast, sorry), I meant Normal maps, roughness, specular, bump, etc, all that makes a skin pop.