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GLBWhy we had to make the NSFW changes to the site.
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sharp832215 Hours ago
For those of you who don't already know me, my name is Ion, and I am the CEO of RenderHub.
I wanted to post about why we had to pull NSFW content from the site. But first I want to say that this is not something I wanted to do. It was a necessary step to ensure that the site will be able to continue to operate.
This was a very hard and sad decision on my part, but I felt it was better to do this proactively considering how much things have been changing. In the past couple of years, sites like Steam, Jinxxy, Tumblr, Gumroad, Patreon, Itch.io, and CGTrader have all had to remove NSFW content to comply with payment processor rules. And we all know about the terrible problems Renderotica is currently dealing with.
So, I am not making an apology, because I believe this was the right thing to do. But I want the community to know that the frustration, anger, sadness and worry that you all are feeling is shared, because I feel exactly the same way. If there is something I could do to keep the site as it was I would do it immediately.
I don't like censorship, and I want our users to be able to speak freely in our forums, and to have full creative freedom in the gallery and marketplace. But unfortunately, at the same time we have to stay compliant with our partners if we expect them to continue to do business with us, and allow us to continue as a site.
Know that we are on the same side. I am also an artist and 3d creator, and I created RenderHub to give people a place where they can be creative and express themselves in every way. I am open to suggestions about anything I can do to help make this easier for everyone involved.
I will be on this thread to try and answer as many questions as I can.
I wanted to post about why we had to pull NSFW content from the site. But first I want to say that this is not something I wanted to do. It was a necessary step to ensure that the site will be able to continue to operate.
This was a very hard and sad decision on my part, but I felt it was better to do this proactively considering how much things have been changing. In the past couple of years, sites like Steam, Jinxxy, Tumblr, Gumroad, Patreon, Itch.io, and CGTrader have all had to remove NSFW content to comply with payment processor rules. And we all know about the terrible problems Renderotica is currently dealing with.
So, I am not making an apology, because I believe this was the right thing to do. But I want the community to know that the frustration, anger, sadness and worry that you all are feeling is shared, because I feel exactly the same way. If there is something I could do to keep the site as it was I would do it immediately.
I don't like censorship, and I want our users to be able to speak freely in our forums, and to have full creative freedom in the gallery and marketplace. But unfortunately, at the same time we have to stay compliant with our partners if we expect them to continue to do business with us, and allow us to continue as a site.
Know that we are on the same side. I am also an artist and 3d creator, and I created RenderHub to give people a place where they can be creative and express themselves in every way. I am open to suggestions about anything I can do to help make this easier for everyone involved.
I will be on this thread to try and answer as many questions as I can.
! REPORT
Why then was there no heads up to the people that lined your wallets...the vendors?
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! REPORT
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08Because we didn't have the luxury of time on our side. Otherwise I would have loved to done this in a more stepped manner.
Helioxentric
Karma: 1,208
Wed, Jul 08Why was there no time? What kind of time frame was there between discussing options and having to make this decision?
Wolf007
Karma: 275
Wed, Jul 08QUOTE: "... it was better to do this proactively..."
vs
QUOTE: "...we didn't have the luxury of time on our side..."
vs
QUOTE: "...we didn't have the luxury of time on our side..."
For those of us leaving the store, can we just get a final payout for July with our June payment and then get some sort of confirmation that are store has been taken down?
REPLY
! REPORT
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08Payments will process the normal way, and anyone who wants to close their store certainly can, just let us know.
SnarlTheWerewolf
Karma: 2,639
Wed, Jul 08Thanks. Do we just put in a ticket for it? And I do need to wait for the July payout before I close it, or can I close it now and still get the June/July payout on their normal days?
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08Just send support a message, and you don't have to worry about payment at all. All balances will be paid.
Make a separate plan for Erotica artists brother.
Come on!
If anyone has the experience and skill to do this, it's you.
I will IMMEDIATELY post all my stuff here if you do this.
Come on!
If anyone has the experience and skill to do this, it's you.
I will IMMEDIATELY post all my stuff here if you do this.
REPLY
! REPORT
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08Thanks, it is part of the discussion here, but we have to get through this storm first.
erogenesis
Karma: 416
Wed, Jul 08Thank you. Keep your people posted and don't beat around the bush with that corporate jargon!
I will be watching!
I will be watching!
Ext3nd Studio
Karma: 3,655
Thu, Jul 09@Ion this mean that you will divide Renderhub in a sort of Renderosity and Renderotica?
B-monster666
Karma: 759
Thu, Jul 09That's exactly what sites like Civitai and Tensorhub did in the AI model sphere.
I don't understand something... On Pornhub, OnlyFans, etc., it's a free-for-all, they rake in millions of dollars in revenue... but they don't want to condone selling a 3D dildo ?
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! REPORT
BeastGohanofTruth
Karma: 212
Wed, Jul 08Yep.
It has NOTHING to do with "PROTECTING THE KIDS" load of bull.
Its more Digital ID BS that no one wants. Kids can still get Porn the Illegal way. This is literally going to bite them in the ass...
It has NOTHING to do with "PROTECTING THE KIDS" load of bull.
Its more Digital ID BS that no one wants. Kids can still get Porn the Illegal way. This is literally going to bite them in the ass...
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08Things have changed around adult content allot, some adult sites aren't even accessible from certain states.
BeastGohanofTruth
Karma: 212
Wed, Jul 08@Ion - and guess what mindset those states are run?
Don't even get me started on that, Ion.
What is coming, is UNAVOIDABLE, and rather not get into that rabbit hole debate...
Don't even get me started on that, Ion.
What is coming, is UNAVOIDABLE, and rather not get into that rabbit hole debate...
Helioxentric
Karma: 1,208
Wed, Jul 08@BeastGohanofTruth You should quit while you're ahead then. There's no point in commenting if you're just going to regurgitate the same arguments repeatedly, not have any genuine questions, and do nothing to move the conversation forward in any beneficial way. It's wasting everyone's time and energy, and is only further annoying people.
Ion that just doesn't make sense. I can understand why you had to remove adult content, I've actually been expecting that. But I can't believe this was a sudden revelation, and a lot of that content could have been mitigated, that's what Renderotica has been doing for a while now.
And this is the third time decisions have been made in this manner, first it was comics, then it was... whatever you were closing stores for, the rules were murky on that. Then the wholesale closing of a whole category.
So while I can respect and understand the decision to exit adult content, the whole process of how it was done does not sit well.
In light of all the other events you yourself just stated, Renderotica, DA, Patreon, Gumroad, etc, it is really difficult to believe you just woke up one morning and realized adult content had to go.
I've been expecting something like this for months now.
If nothing else the way it was done demonstrates really bad planning.
And this is the third time decisions have been made in this manner, first it was comics, then it was... whatever you were closing stores for, the rules were murky on that. Then the wholesale closing of a whole category.
So while I can respect and understand the decision to exit adult content, the whole process of how it was done does not sit well.
In light of all the other events you yourself just stated, Renderotica, DA, Patreon, Gumroad, etc, it is really difficult to believe you just woke up one morning and realized adult content had to go.
I've been expecting something like this for months now.
If nothing else the way it was done demonstrates really bad planning.
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! REPORT
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08You are right, I didn't just wake up with the idea. We had a serious issue arise that suddenly put us under the microscope. So I decided to act proactively instead of waiting for the hammer to drop.
BeastGohanofTruth
Karma: 212
Wed, Jul 08@ion - you mean you got the call. Just tell us the truth, you were told to PUSH CENSORSHIP by ZIONIST FAKE CHRISTIANS, who are in the pockets of this CULT, to stop Creativity.
Anyone with DISCERNABLE QUALIA can see through your load of bull...
Anyone with DISCERNABLE QUALIA can see through your load of bull...
BeastGohanofTruth
Karma: 212
Wed, Jul 08Well something feels VERY FISHY here, cause the signs line up with what happened to Tumblr back in the day, and evne Share CG....
diogenese19348
Karma: 662
Wed, Jul 08I run an adult art site, and I've got a feeling I know what kind of issue it was, when it occurred, and why you can't go into any more detail about it. Also why it's the kind of thing that will cause "under the microscope". So OK, I'll stop on the "you had plenty of time" topic.
The problem you have at the moment is a lack of trust due to the opaqueness of the situation. My unsolicited advice is behind the scenes you need to work with the effected vendors to allow them to edit their catalogs to get the items that can be sold without sexuality back.
If you don't do something you are going to be hemorrhaging competent vendors because if you read through that original forum thread you might notice a good 60% of the posters who were up and arms were vendors, not customers.
The problem you have at the moment is a lack of trust due to the opaqueness of the situation. My unsolicited advice is behind the scenes you need to work with the effected vendors to allow them to edit their catalogs to get the items that can be sold without sexuality back.
If you don't do something you are going to be hemorrhaging competent vendors because if you read through that original forum thread you might notice a good 60% of the posters who were up and arms were vendors, not customers.
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08The best thing to do is just go into product manager, make any changes to promo images or descriptions, then save it. The Adult rating will still be selected, but the item will queue up for us to check and we can change it to Mature if it is all good.
db xxx
Karma: 3,053
Wed, Jul 08We can't save the product after editing promo. It says I must set content rating before saving and it's greyed out.
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08Try it now to see if it will save. Let me know and I will check it on my end.
db xxx
Karma: 3,053
Wed, Jul 08Works now. Couple of questions. If there is a naked female chest on a promo can it go into mature or do I have to remove all nudity even top one? Also what about blood? I have an product of blood decals, can that be sold under mature?
db xxx
Karma: 3,053
Wed, Jul 08That's good. Can you just make it clear to where is the line on nudity. Is full frontal nudity OK or just like topless? If full frontal is OK then what about genital products for DazStudio, if there is no sex on the promo and no sex poses or any poses in the package shouldn't that also be just nudity? Also are sex toys adult only?
db xxx
Karma: 3,053
Wed, Jul 08It would help if we had a clear and detailed set of rules on what exactly is mature and where is exactly the line between mature and adult only.
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08So, this is kind of subjective. Full nudity should be ok, but if it is too explicit (spreading, etc.) we may kick it back. Best way is to submit stuff and if we kick it back it helps to figure out where the line is.
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08We can update our Mature Content Policy, to help be more specific, but this is always going to be a bit subjective.
db xxx
Karma: 3,053
Wed, Jul 08OK so no repercussions for submitting something that crosses the border it will just be rejected? And nudity is OK if it is not sexual but no sex toys?
diogenese19348
Karma: 662
Wed, Jul 08Your eggplant should be OK. As long as of course it's just an eggplant 
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08"OK so no repercussions for submitting something that crosses the border it will just be rejected? And nudity is OK if it is not sexual but no sex toys?"
Yes, if we reject something no repercussions at all, and you can adjust and resubmit.
Yes, if we reject something no repercussions at all, and you can adjust and resubmit.
Just curious, since Adult was gutted entirely, what will happen to the few entries that seemed to be removed from the robot contest that were marked as adult for one reason or other? Are they still visible on the judges end and will be considered but just invisible?
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! REPORT
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08I am going to check those, they will probably be moved to mature and returned to the contest and site.
Splatterbaby
Karma: 9,305
Wed, Jul 08You put my image in adult for the Sexy robot comp. I followed your rules and at best it was mature. Nothing showed any signed of nudity or her getting drilled, literally a robot charging and enjoying it . I asked so many times and I got robot telling me it was her pose . Do you understand how frustrating it is to put this amount of work in this , followed your rules and you do this ? It clearly states it was mature by your rules but for some reason you gutted it. Anyone can see it was not adult. End of the day it was accepted into the comp. It was for a SEXY robot. It was on top and well received by people And you purposefully put it in adult as you knew it would get gutted.. Kinda sux dude. Go reinstate it . “Charging “ is the image . As for the people selling stuff . You massacred so many lives so quickly. Really badly done .
Splatterbaby
Karma: 9,305
Wed, Jul 08Well that was selfish of me. Reinstate everyone’s image banned in the comp.just so damn angry here but we learn when we mess up 
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08Don't worry about the contest ones, I am checking those and moving back to mature.
This now sets a precedent that does tell customers and creators alike you will make sweeping decisions that can impact their purchasing and livelihoods over what you promise is not but functionally appears like a whim. That precedent is with adult content, but does it follow that other content such as ported assets from other media are next? Why should customers and creators continue to trust RenderHub when we were not even trusted with notice, much less input?
I understand slippery slope arguments are largely exercises in navel gazing, but for creators both current and prospect, why should they continue to try and build their brand here when this was deemed the best course of action and manner to navigate it?
I learned long ago that when someone asks for forgiveness before permission it is simply because you were not worth the time to them. Business and social contracts are much the same. When any commercial body does not care enough to warn and help the very vendors who create the wares they offer, they almost certainly care less for the customers paying for said goods.
I am sorry but I at least do not buy this explanation as presented. This was not President Truman being called in the midnight hour to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, nor any other eleventh hour Gordion knot that would make King Solomon blush. There absolutely was time to communicate to both your customers and vendors of the decision being weighed and then made. Listing previous examples with other companies illustrates that bold faced. This was something being considered, likely for a while and at least as far back as Steam and Renderotica's woes came to light., the former of which being no small story in the news cycle even outside this niche market. It's obvious for any bisuness why this decision would be important. The actions taken by RenderHub show the vendors and customers being informed during all that time was not.
I'm sorry, but that trust is shattered.
I understand slippery slope arguments are largely exercises in navel gazing, but for creators both current and prospect, why should they continue to try and build their brand here when this was deemed the best course of action and manner to navigate it?
I learned long ago that when someone asks for forgiveness before permission it is simply because you were not worth the time to them. Business and social contracts are much the same. When any commercial body does not care enough to warn and help the very vendors who create the wares they offer, they almost certainly care less for the customers paying for said goods.
I am sorry but I at least do not buy this explanation as presented. This was not President Truman being called in the midnight hour to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki, nor any other eleventh hour Gordion knot that would make King Solomon blush. There absolutely was time to communicate to both your customers and vendors of the decision being weighed and then made. Listing previous examples with other companies illustrates that bold faced. This was something being considered, likely for a while and at least as far back as Steam and Renderotica's woes came to light., the former of which being no small story in the news cycle even outside this niche market. It's obvious for any bisuness why this decision would be important. The actions taken by RenderHub show the vendors and customers being informed during all that time was not.
I'm sorry, but that trust is shattered.
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! REPORT
B-monster666
Karma: 759
Thu, Jul 09100% agree with you! A few weeks ago a number of vendors were whisked away without any kind of warning, or transparency as to why. I had said at the time that I get when it comes to something illegal being marketed, you would see a vendor or two disappear, but this was broad and heavy handed and very sketchy to say the least.
If there was an illegal underground market being operated here, call it out. And I had said, even at the time, that a mass decision like that, whatever it is, causes a slippery slope. There were a number of people, particularly NSFW vendors, who didn't seem bothered by it. And here we are, free fall down that slippery slope.
How long before it's deemed that I'm not allowed to download any of my assets that I have already purchased are is? As a consumer, that thought scares me also...my own purchases disappearing because someone else didn't think I should have them, and someone else is setting my morals for me.
Sunsetting would have been appreciated. Telling the users outright: "We will be migrating away from NSFW content by X date. Vendors will have time to move their products off, and consumers will have time to purchase what they want, and get it."
If there was an illegal underground market being operated here, call it out. And I had said, even at the time, that a mass decision like that, whatever it is, causes a slippery slope. There were a number of people, particularly NSFW vendors, who didn't seem bothered by it. And here we are, free fall down that slippery slope.
How long before it's deemed that I'm not allowed to download any of my assets that I have already purchased are is? As a consumer, that thought scares me also...my own purchases disappearing because someone else didn't think I should have them, and someone else is setting my morals for me.
Sunsetting would have been appreciated. Telling the users outright: "We will be migrating away from NSFW content by X date. Vendors will have time to move their products off, and consumers will have time to purchase what they want, and get it."
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 2,759
Thu, Jul 09@B-monster666
Obviously, if RenderHub could have "sunsetted" the adult products over a period of time, they would have done so.
Just think about it for one second... Why would they give up those potential sales?
Obviously, if RenderHub could have "sunsetted" the adult products over a period of time, they would have done so.
Just think about it for one second... Why would they give up those potential sales?
TCG3D
Karma: 234
Thu, Jul 09I really have come to love RenderHub as a source for content I wouldn't find at DAZ proper, so I sincerely want to be able to trust it as a platform, but this sudden sweeping action makes that difficult to do so moving forward.
As a consumer I feel like a not insignificant part of my purchases past and future have been curtailed by this decision. My primary concern is for the vendors that made RenderHub their home getting so severely whiplashed by this. What assistance and assurances is there for them? Why should they (and we as a result) continue to support this storefront?
I feel bad for Ion and the people at RenderHub for being put in this precarious position that forced their hand. I believe them when they say it was not something they wanted to do as it is incongruous with how they conducted business here beforehand. I just strongly disagree with how it was handled and the insistence that the immediate excision of all adult content with no forewarning was the best direction.
Perhaps it was all that was on the table, but then I ask why were there not discussions already in place about how to deal with adult content when Steam was so publicly wrestling with VISA? Why delete instead of simply hiding and deactivating sale of adult items so that vendors would be able to alter the sales page to make them compliant with Mature rating and then resume sales?
This move, while clearly coerced unto RenderHub, is controversial for good reason. It is very disheartening.
I'll continue to support the vendors who provide content I wish to purchase, but I'm skeptical about endorsing RenderHub to my peers looking for a place to open up shop when before most testimonials I'd heard were largely glowing in comparison to any other option. Stability is important when conducting business, and trust is a bridge that one burnt is very difficult to rebuild.
Not impossible, but certainly every step forward now has to be cautious.
As a consumer I feel like a not insignificant part of my purchases past and future have been curtailed by this decision. My primary concern is for the vendors that made RenderHub their home getting so severely whiplashed by this. What assistance and assurances is there for them? Why should they (and we as a result) continue to support this storefront?
I feel bad for Ion and the people at RenderHub for being put in this precarious position that forced their hand. I believe them when they say it was not something they wanted to do as it is incongruous with how they conducted business here beforehand. I just strongly disagree with how it was handled and the insistence that the immediate excision of all adult content with no forewarning was the best direction.
Perhaps it was all that was on the table, but then I ask why were there not discussions already in place about how to deal with adult content when Steam was so publicly wrestling with VISA? Why delete instead of simply hiding and deactivating sale of adult items so that vendors would be able to alter the sales page to make them compliant with Mature rating and then resume sales?
This move, while clearly coerced unto RenderHub, is controversial for good reason. It is very disheartening.
I'll continue to support the vendors who provide content I wish to purchase, but I'm skeptical about endorsing RenderHub to my peers looking for a place to open up shop when before most testimonials I'd heard were largely glowing in comparison to any other option. Stability is important when conducting business, and trust is a bridge that one burnt is very difficult to rebuild.
Not impossible, but certainly every step forward now has to be cautious.
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 2,759
Thu, Jul 09@TCG3D
"simply hiding and deactivating sale of adult items so that vendors would be able to alter the sales page to make them compliant"
You must have missed that discussion elsewhere in this thread. That's exactly what RenderHub did, and exactly what some vendors are doing.
"simply hiding and deactivating sale of adult items so that vendors would be able to alter the sales page to make them compliant"
You must have missed that discussion elsewhere in this thread. That's exactly what RenderHub did, and exactly what some vendors are doing.
TCG3D
Karma: 234
19 Hours agoI must have missed that entirely, and if that's the case then I own that error and apologize. Was that initially the case or a later development? In any case, that's better than I understood, but nevertheless this is still an awful development.
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 2,759
19 Hours agoFrom what I understand, vendors' affected products didn't disappear in their vendor tools. They could make adjustments and resubmit. It might not have been perfectly clear, but it was covered by the CEO and another admin here in this thread.
The feeling and problem are still prevalent and will be near impossible to shake in the future after this. There a far too few vendors in this market, they communicate, they remember, they know the problem sites. This promotes a death knell for some sites that are far larger than this one.
Basically, it's like RenderHub just said, "So Long, and Thanks for All the Porn Money."
Basically, it's like RenderHub just said, "So Long, and Thanks for All the Porn Money."
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! REPORT
This has been a PR nightmare and a poor display of communication attempts. I mean, the sudden "We're getting rid of porn on the site, thank you for you attention to this matter" statement in a boilerplate package that you had to look for after piecing together that things were changed and missing isn't exactly building trust with the community, one of this site's strongest features.
Is there any consideration of finding a new payment partner that would be a bit more tolerant or conducive of adult material? I don't know if it's going to bring burned artists and vendors back, but having this be a temporary thing would go over maybe slightly better than something permanent.
This also complicates all that gray area stuff that straddles between the mature content and adult content. Some liked to play it safe and move it up a category (especially in the gallery), where now they're probably wishing they'd just moved it down as now it'd still be around.
Is there any consideration of finding a new payment partner that would be a bit more tolerant or conducive of adult material? I don't know if it's going to bring burned artists and vendors back, but having this be a temporary thing would go over maybe slightly better than something permanent.
This also complicates all that gray area stuff that straddles between the mature content and adult content. Some liked to play it safe and move it up a category (especially in the gallery), where now they're probably wishing they'd just moved it down as now it'd still be around.
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! REPORT
I have essentially lost my job with this change, and I know I'm not the only one in that situation. It feels like such a betrayal, especially since there have been other sites that faced the same payment processor pushback and found a work around.
There is literally no alternative for 3d assets and the majority of my sales have been NSFW. Years of work..... just gone.
There is literally no alternative for 3d assets and the majority of my sales have been NSFW. Years of work..... just gone.
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! REPORT
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08"especially since there have been other sites that faced the same payment processor pushback and found a work around. "
Really??? Most other 3D sites have removed the NSFW stuff, and Renderotica has not been able to process payments for weeks. And somehow we are the bad-guys for trying to prevent the same situation here.
Really??? Most other 3D sites have removed the NSFW stuff, and Renderotica has not been able to process payments for weeks. And somehow we are the bad-guys for trying to prevent the same situation here.
jmper
Karma: 154
Wed, Jul 08Yes, 'bad-guys'. Sorry, I know as a CEO you don't want to hear that but that is the perception from most. This last minute change to adult content must have been triggered so quickly that, as a company, you had no choice but a split-second decision with no forewarning what-so-ever.
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08I promise we would have waited if we could. I have no reason to have wanted to do this so suddenly. I benefit in no way for doing that, actually quite the opposite.
janey
Karma: 3,139
Wed, Jul 08No for 3D assets but I know Itch.io and PixivFanbox has similar issues with payment processors but managed to find a way to still allow adult content.
Wolf007
Karma: 275
Wed, Jul 08QUOTE: "Yes, 'bad-guys'. Sorry, I know as a CEO you don't want to hear that but that is the perception from most. This last minute change to adult content must have been triggered so quickly that, as a company, you had no choice but a split-second decision with no forewarning what-so-ever."
And they have the nerve to call it 'proactive'.
And they have the nerve to call it 'proactive'.
Anyone wanting to resubmit marketplace items as "Mature" after making revisions, it should be working properly now.
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! REPORT
Boobs Academy
Karma: 9,212
Thu, Jul 09Is there any time limit, i mean will the old adult products stay in the system forever and you can handle such adjustments later when the dust has settled?
oomphy
Karma: 16,246
Thu, Jul 09This^ Is there a guarantee that this whole thing won't happen again? Or is it only temporary until another company pressure you to do the same thing again? I personally don't mind adapting to the new policy & maybe get creative with all the limitations but how safe is Mature content from being suddenly removed just like the Adult content?
sharp8322
Karma: 166
15 Hours agoI'm not even a vender and think waht you did was the most disrepspectful and und professional way of doing it and you deserve every bit of the backlash you getting for it
Mostly curious and doubt it'll get a satisfactory answer but im assuming based on some responses that this isn't the "usual" card companies forcing compliance but something a tad different? It feels abrupt that all the explicit adult content is gone from here but a lot of the other sites have had more time to warn and adjust without a total expunge of content.
Or am i just looking too deep?
Or am i just looking too deep?
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! REPORT
RyanTheUser18
Karma: 466
Wed, Jul 08I think you're right about that. The moment I got an email today about the changes to remove NSFW content, I was like: "Yep, incoming shitstorm."
They really could have at least warn about it eariler, like 30 days as someone said. Something feels off about all of this, honestly.
They really could have at least warn about it eariler, like 30 days as someone said. Something feels off about all of this, honestly.
Helioxentric
Karma: 1,208
Wed, Jul 08@Ion How imminent? I asked you earlier about what sort of time window the site had to make a decision before the rug got pulled and received no answer. Knowing that would go a long way of explaining why you felt you "didn't have the luxury of time" in terms of giving users advanced notice.
Markies58
Karma: 102
Wed, Jul 08That's the problem. Payment processors do not issue a warning.
Once you're on their radar, the clock is ticking.
They point at their terms, re-define 'adult' and freeze your financial account(s).
The "Sword of Damocles".
Once you're on their radar, the clock is ticking.
They point at their terms, re-define 'adult' and freeze your financial account(s).
The "Sword of Damocles".
Helioxentric
Karma: 1,208
Wed, Jul 08@Markies58 That sounds like a warning to me. And they absolutely do issue warnings. Many of the previously mentioned sites that have had to purge adult oriented content received some sort of notice from processors to respond or be denied service.
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08@Markies58
Exactly! We felt like the clock was ticking, and if we were going to get audited we needed to have our ducks in a row.
Exactly! We felt like the clock was ticking, and if we were going to get audited we needed to have our ducks in a row.
Can we at least have the option to link to Patreon now?
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Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08I don't think we can, the content being on the site and accessible is the issue.
janey
Karma: 3,139
Wed, Jul 08So we can't sell our NSFW assets here, but we can't advertise one of the only places where we can? Man, that just sucks.
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08It really does suck. I wish there was a way we could do this without the risk.
janey
Karma: 3,139
Wed, Jul 08Like....just allow us to mention it in our descriptions. "Hey support me on patreon!"
That's literally all.
That's literally all.
Many people are upset, and the situation is understandable. What I perceive is that Renderhub held on until the very end to maintain that 3D niche so as not to affect those sellers. But when you see the risk of losing the entire store for wanting to maintain that niche, and you're already being warned that they're coming for you and you run the risk of your store being shut down for lack of payments, what the Administration is doing is logical: saving the store and several sellers, rather than dying a hero defending a niche that those in power are clearly willing to eliminate.
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Ion
Talk to 3DLoki from Rotica. They recently ditched a CC processor that required them to drop all manner of content from Rotica.
Now, if you know Rotica, a lot of stuff there is pretty crazy, even for me. Chances are that CC processor would be perfect for here.
I mean, you haven't ever permitted cannibalism here, right?
Give it a try.
Talk to 3DLoki from Rotica. They recently ditched a CC processor that required them to drop all manner of content from Rotica.
Now, if you know Rotica, a lot of stuff there is pretty crazy, even for me. Chances are that CC processor would be perfect for here.
I mean, you haven't ever permitted cannibalism here, right?
Give it a try.
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I think it's fair we know exactly what happened. If PayPal, Mastercard or Visa didn't suddenly gang up on you, who did?
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Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08I know this makes me sound like a complete ass, but I can't discuss it.
All I can say is something serious happened that put us on the "radar".
All I can say is something serious happened that put us on the "radar".
MarkWhite
Karma: 425
Wed, Jul 08Yeah, I get it, the Internet is getting its assed kicked every which way with NSFW. Grok has a NSFW button and it doesn't even work. I really feel sorry for all the people suffering from this mess.
While your honesty is appreciated, you contradict yourself and the original post and in your replies people point it out.
It is a shame you do not post evidence of the pressure, and even worse, you hold more power than any of us ever could. You could reach out to platforms who have faced this before and perhaps the lot of you could get together to prevent this from happening again. Because it just keeps happening despite hypocrisy- onlyfans is far worse than any fictional creation.
We cannot fight this battle for you until we get real evidence. We have sung to high heavens, and for about 2 weeks made a minor impact. But companies still fall short of SHOWING the demands.
show the companies reaching out to you. You think it stops here? They already came for the niche, you're the generalized market without catering deeply to niche.
if you show the proof, you will have less people pissed off because you've just killed your customers. The people who made you will not stand for this.
And no, i wont accept "something serious happened to put us on the radar".
Either help us help you, or respectfully, don't bother complaining looking for pity.
It is a shame you do not post evidence of the pressure, and even worse, you hold more power than any of us ever could. You could reach out to platforms who have faced this before and perhaps the lot of you could get together to prevent this from happening again. Because it just keeps happening despite hypocrisy- onlyfans is far worse than any fictional creation.
We cannot fight this battle for you until we get real evidence. We have sung to high heavens, and for about 2 weeks made a minor impact. But companies still fall short of SHOWING the demands.
show the companies reaching out to you. You think it stops here? They already came for the niche, you're the generalized market without catering deeply to niche.
if you show the proof, you will have less people pissed off because you've just killed your customers. The people who made you will not stand for this.
And no, i wont accept "something serious happened to put us on the radar".
Either help us help you, or respectfully, don't bother complaining looking for pity.
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Henrika
Karma: 2,621
Wed, Jul 08"And no, i wont accept "something serious happened to put us on the radar".
I won't accept this either. Transparency is absolutely essential for me to have a business relationship with someone. At least the new owners of R'otica posted detailed accounts of what happened to the store, and why.
This "something happened" BS simply will not do. And since this owner of this site has already proven to be dishonest, we can't truly trust any of their claims now.
I won't accept this either. Transparency is absolutely essential for me to have a business relationship with someone. At least the new owners of R'otica posted detailed accounts of what happened to the store, and why.
This "something happened" BS simply will not do. And since this owner of this site has already proven to be dishonest, we can't truly trust any of their claims now.
Henrika
Karma: 2,621
Wed, Jul 08I am concerned by your apparent lack of empathy toward the vendors, and your dishonesty. You were caught with a lie (that "moving forward in a new direction" post in case your memory fails you) and now, as erogenesis pointed out, you seem to be panicking. It's not a good look.
What you're seeing from your vendors is not merely anger, it's something worse: betrayal. Like I said before, the most valuable commodity you can trade is trust. You had ours until now, and now you don't have it.
If you see these comments as "woe is me" and my using you as a "punching bag" rather than feedback on a poor decision on your part, that is on you. I wish I could trust you, but at the moment I can't. And your "I really can't talk about it" replies aren't helping.
What you're seeing from your vendors is not merely anger, it's something worse: betrayal. Like I said before, the most valuable commodity you can trade is trust. You had ours until now, and now you don't have it.
If you see these comments as "woe is me" and my using you as a "punching bag" rather than feedback on a poor decision on your part, that is on you. I wish I could trust you, but at the moment I can't. And your "I really can't talk about it" replies aren't helping.
Henrika
Karma: 2,621
Wed, Jul 08@Ion Bruh... we can read. I don't see the point of repeating the same old message over and over again because it'd be like flogging a dead horse at this point, but we literally caught you with a lie. Now you can either own up to it and hopefully garner some goodwill from your vendors, or you can stubbornly keep repeating that you didn't lie when the forum post where you did is still up.
It's up to you, really.
It's up to you, really.
MadamSavvy
Karma: 110
Wed, Jul 08@ion you did not even have the decency to give people 24 hours. You chose this immediate and quick and left it up to "well fuck me i wont say sorry you guys just have to trust im totally upset too!"
Again, we don't want this but the difference is we will take time out of our lives to fight this for you. If you tell them no we wont play your censorial game, you would blow up over night across SO MANY POCKETS of the internet and everyone would hail you a free speech king. you could set up crowd funding if things got desperate. this battle has gone on for far longer than it should have, going back to 2012~
there is literally nothing in this world that could be so pressing that you needed to remove ALL NSFW.
what does that even mean? will the definition change? will basic anatomy not be allowed? basic 3d figures? because that could be problematic afterall- maybe not today but tomorrow.
so when do you decide to fight?
Again, we don't want this but the difference is we will take time out of our lives to fight this for you. If you tell them no we wont play your censorial game, you would blow up over night across SO MANY POCKETS of the internet and everyone would hail you a free speech king. you could set up crowd funding if things got desperate. this battle has gone on for far longer than it should have, going back to 2012~
there is literally nothing in this world that could be so pressing that you needed to remove ALL NSFW.
what does that even mean? will the definition change? will basic anatomy not be allowed? basic 3d figures? because that could be problematic afterall- maybe not today but tomorrow.
so when do you decide to fight?
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08I love this, and your spirit! Believe me, I am a fighter (I am Greek, its kinda in my DNA). But I am afraid this would be a fight we would loose. Sometimes fighting means you have to play the long game, and that takes strategy.
Henrika
Karma: 2,621
Wed, Jul 08No "love" from me back. I'll quote what you said and explain to anyone reading why it was dishonest.
Your quotes:
"After a great deal of consideration, we have made the difficult decision to discontinue adult content across the RenderHub platform."
Now you've backpedalled and said you had literally no time to make the decision and that Renderhub would go down in its entirety if you didn't make this change. You make it seem like it was YOUR decision reached "after a great deal of consideration", and now you claim you weren't even given enough time to notify the vendors. So which is it? Careful consideration, or being forced? If you had been honest from the start, you would have said why you had to remove the adult content, but you chose to lie (sorry; is obfuscate a better word?)
"So, why are we making this change?
Simply put, we believe this is the right decision for the long-term future of RenderHub."
You could have said the truth and told us the site would be taken down if this change was not implemented.
Because you chose dishonesty, we can't even trust that credit card processors are REALLY the driving force behind this decision. Someone (can't remember who) suggested that maybe you're selling the site to another company with a religious/anti-porn agenda and that CC processors have nothing to do with this.
I don't know your reasons, because you lied and then made another claim. Is it the truth this time?
Your quotes:
"After a great deal of consideration, we have made the difficult decision to discontinue adult content across the RenderHub platform."
Now you've backpedalled and said you had literally no time to make the decision and that Renderhub would go down in its entirety if you didn't make this change. You make it seem like it was YOUR decision reached "after a great deal of consideration", and now you claim you weren't even given enough time to notify the vendors. So which is it? Careful consideration, or being forced? If you had been honest from the start, you would have said why you had to remove the adult content, but you chose to lie (sorry; is obfuscate a better word?)
"So, why are we making this change?
Simply put, we believe this is the right decision for the long-term future of RenderHub."
You could have said the truth and told us the site would be taken down if this change was not implemented.
Because you chose dishonesty, we can't even trust that credit card processors are REALLY the driving force behind this decision. Someone (can't remember who) suggested that maybe you're selling the site to another company with a religious/anti-porn agenda and that CC processors have nothing to do with this.
I don't know your reasons, because you lied and then made another claim. Is it the truth this time?
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08"What does that even mean? will the definition change? will basic anatomy not be allowed? basic 3d figures? because that could be problematic afterall- maybe not today but tomorrow."
This is true, the landscape is always changing, especially with NSFW. All we can do is try our best to stay in the game, and sometimes that means changing things, and not always in the way we want to.
This is true, the landscape is always changing, especially with NSFW. All we can do is try our best to stay in the game, and sometimes that means changing things, and not always in the way we want to.
MadamSavvy
Karma: 110
Wed, Jul 08no, you are a coward and pathetic. there is no "long game" and the only "strategy" is bending the knee. you have fucked your vendors with panic instead of being transparent. You will fall the same way the others did because by your own admission you are not steam. and if steam bends, then so will you.
A few places have done work arounds, buying tokens that are used on a different part of the site. making a different site. trying to play censor.
it never works out, and the websites always end up worse off and no one considers them for serious business.
do you think the denizens of the internet, even if they dont 3d model, would just sit idly by?
Instead though, you play this game, come here, expect pity and say "trust me bro". the best thing you could have done is just leave your main post and not do ANY of this. because it is FAR WORSE than the OG announcement.
A few places have done work arounds, buying tokens that are used on a different part of the site. making a different site. trying to play censor.
it never works out, and the websites always end up worse off and no one considers them for serious business.
do you think the denizens of the internet, even if they dont 3d model, would just sit idly by?
Instead though, you play this game, come here, expect pity and say "trust me bro". the best thing you could have done is just leave your main post and not do ANY of this. because it is FAR WORSE than the OG announcement.
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08Uhm, you literally proved I didn't lie...
Me: "Simply put, we believe this is the right decision for the long-term future of RenderHub."
You: "You could have said the truth and told us the site would be taken down if this change was not implemented. "
So how exactly is this a lie? Doing something to because "the site would be taken down if this change was not implemented"
is exactly something that ensures "the long-term future of RenderHub."
I will admit it may have been a bit tone deaf, but a lie?
Me: "After a great deal of consideration"
You: "Now you've backpedalled and said you had literally no time to make the decision"
Uhm, I said we couldn't wait 30 days to roll out the change.
"a great deal of consideration" and "30 days" are not the same thing.
For that mater neither is "a great deal of consideration" to "24 hours".
Again, maybe the messaging could have been better, but a lie? I don't think so.
BTW, have I mentioned I DON'T LIE!
Your turn lady!
Me: "Simply put, we believe this is the right decision for the long-term future of RenderHub."
You: "You could have said the truth and told us the site would be taken down if this change was not implemented. "
So how exactly is this a lie? Doing something to because "the site would be taken down if this change was not implemented"
is exactly something that ensures "the long-term future of RenderHub."
I will admit it may have been a bit tone deaf, but a lie?
Me: "After a great deal of consideration"
You: "Now you've backpedalled and said you had literally no time to make the decision"
Uhm, I said we couldn't wait 30 days to roll out the change.
"a great deal of consideration" and "30 days" are not the same thing.
For that mater neither is "a great deal of consideration" to "24 hours".
Again, maybe the messaging could have been better, but a lie? I don't think so.
BTW, have I mentioned I DON'T LIE!
Your turn lady!
Henrika
Karma: 2,621
Wed, Jul 08You are playing semantics here, and everyone can see it. It's tiresome and trite. Several of us have pointed out your dishonesty, and you don't seem to realize that your behavior and evasiveness is a poor look.
Can you answer one simple question: how much time did the CC processor (if that really IS the reason) give you to remove NSFW content from the site? Did they say it had to be immediate, or were you given any time at all to get your affairs in order, so to speak? 48 hours? 24 hours? 6 hours? Effective immediately? Tell us. We really want to know.
Can you answer one simple question: how much time did the CC processor (if that really IS the reason) give you to remove NSFW content from the site? Did they say it had to be immediate, or were you given any time at all to get your affairs in order, so to speak? 48 hours? 24 hours? 6 hours? Effective immediately? Tell us. We really want to know.
MadamSavvy
Karma: 110
Wed, Jul 08If no payment processor has caused this, then this is related to ofcom of the UK?
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08I am going to step out of the conversation for now.
@3DLoki I will be in touch.
@3DLoki I will be in touch.
It almost sounds like some religious right-wing nutjobs had something to do with this. And sadly right now, these a-holes have way too much influence and way too much power.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,723
Wed, Jul 08This is likely the same group that tried to force censorship at Steam a couple of years ago over what they insisted where games that depicted violence towards women. Steam told them all to Eff Off and gave the games away for free. That shut them up quickly and they slunk off. Steam is a huge corporation with deep pockets and a herd of lawyers.
This group is based in Australia and is a branch of the 'Assembly of God,, which is international. With the US being heavily evangelical Christian with many in the Republican party, they can persuade the payment processors to do their bidding.
When Civitai faced the same challenge some months ago they simply split off a new site called 'CivitaiRed' (or something similar) and sold tokens which could be used for content on either site.
I'm told there's payment processors in Europe and Asia that will work with Adult stuff.
And what are the big porn sites doing? They're a BIG, lucrative industry with deep pockets and lots of lawyers.
This group is based in Australia and is a branch of the 'Assembly of God,, which is international. With the US being heavily evangelical Christian with many in the Republican party, they can persuade the payment processors to do their bidding.
When Civitai faced the same challenge some months ago they simply split off a new site called 'CivitaiRed' (or something similar) and sold tokens which could be used for content on either site.
I'm told there's payment processors in Europe and Asia that will work with Adult stuff.
And what are the big porn sites doing? They're a BIG, lucrative industry with deep pockets and lots of lawyers.
MarkWhite
Karma: 425
Wed, Jul 08I ran this through Grok and man did I learn a lot. I see why you had to do what you did. Very sad. I suppose in your case they put a gun to your head.
Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08We aren't big an powerful like Steam, so we have to try our best to protect what we have. That is what I was trying to do, and am still trying to do.
erogenesis
Karma: 416
Wed, Jul 08@Bobb "I'm told there's payment processors in Europe and Asia that will work with Adult stuff."
Do you know who these guys are? Let me know, I'm thinking of setting up my own shop.
Do you know who these guys are? Let me know, I'm thinking of setting up my own shop.
MadamSavvy
Karma: 110
Wed, Jul 08this is a really ignorant response because the censorship game is supported by both sides of blatant politically labeled politicians but also you have both "right wing" and "left wing" censor groups attacking NSFW under the same banner.
collective shout is an aussie censor group that identifies as "religious right wing"(if you try to name her religion she threatens to sue for some reason) and are the ones who pressured steam, however she works along side Julie Inman Grant (an american) the esafety commissioner who is objectively "left wing" and progressive, who cheered on GARM (international advertising board that disbanded after elon sued them) for censoring trump/elon.
so for about 30 seconds when it comes to censorship, it is more productive to talk about the specific group and not make moronic statements.
collective shout is an aussie censor group that identifies as "religious right wing"(if you try to name her religion she threatens to sue for some reason) and are the ones who pressured steam, however she works along side Julie Inman Grant (an american) the esafety commissioner who is objectively "left wing" and progressive, who cheered on GARM (international advertising board that disbanded after elon sued them) for censoring trump/elon.
so for about 30 seconds when it comes to censorship, it is more productive to talk about the specific group and not make moronic statements.
ArtbyMel
Karma: 17,161
Wed, Jul 08I hope you are NOT saying I am making "mornonic"statements. You have no store here and no gallery plus you just joined here. Last I checked, a number of Christian Nationalists groups in this country were working hard to shut down any site they did not like.
Financial & Corporate Pressure Economic Boycotts: Christian advocacy groups like the National Center on Sexual Exploitation (NCOSE) and Exodus Cry have successfully pressured major credit card companies—including Mastercard, Visa, and Discover—to block payments to large pornographic networks like Pornhub.
Host Deplatforming: Similar pressure campaigns have led payment processors like PayPal and American Express to cut ties with the adult industry, severely limiting their ability to generate revenue.
Broader Policy Goals Project 2025: The Heritage Foundation’s Project 2025 agenda—a set of conservative policy proposals frequently backed by Christian nationalists—explicitly calls for the federal outlawing of pornography, classifying it as a public health crisis and societal threat.
Financial & Corporate Pressure Economic Boycotts: Christian advocacy groups like the National Center on Sexual Exploitation (NCOSE) and Exodus Cry have successfully pressured major credit card companies—including Mastercard, Visa, and Discover—to block payments to large pornographic networks like Pornhub.
Host Deplatforming: Similar pressure campaigns have led payment processors like PayPal and American Express to cut ties with the adult industry, severely limiting their ability to generate revenue.
Broader Policy Goals Project 2025: The Heritage Foundation’s Project 2025 agenda—a set of conservative policy proposals frequently backed by Christian nationalists—explicitly calls for the federal outlawing of pornography, classifying it as a public health crisis and societal threat.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 51,913
Wed, Jul 08Thanks for this in-depth information. Every time I read about these hypocrites (HuffPost, Raw Story), only one term comes to mind: Taliban 2.0
Fun fact: Years ago, I read somewhere - and I don't know if it's a joke or actually true - that in the U.S., most visits to Pornhub come from the Bible Belt. Kind of fits, doesn't it?
Fun fact: Years ago, I read somewhere - and I don't know if it's a joke or actually true - that in the U.S., most visits to Pornhub come from the Bible Belt. Kind of fits, doesn't it?
deepred
Karma: 1,326
Thu, Jul 09Artbemel: You beat me to it.
Bobb: One has to wonder who's financing these fundies.
Bobb: One has to wonder who's financing these fundies.
BeastGohanofTruth
Karma: 212
Thu, Jul 09@artbymel - She was only TOLD by one of her PAID SIMPS dude.
Savvy is just using this situation to GRIFT from the Cult. This WHOLE SITUATION is linked to them, cause they don't want anyone earning a living that is UNPLUGGED. Call me a "SCHIZO", call me a "TINFOIL HAT WEARER" all you people want. Every one of these "INFLUENCERS" are bought and owned and Savvy is one of them.
By the way, SAY HELLO to your INBRED DJT DICKRIDER DDAY for me Savvy. You both can go to Hell. OH WAIT?! LMFAO!
Good luck trying to survive into this next and final cycle. Crusade is coming, and not even your SIMPS are going to fall on their swords for you Savvy. You DEGENERATE.
Savvy is just using this situation to GRIFT from the Cult. This WHOLE SITUATION is linked to them, cause they don't want anyone earning a living that is UNPLUGGED. Call me a "SCHIZO", call me a "TINFOIL HAT WEARER" all you people want. Every one of these "INFLUENCERS" are bought and owned and Savvy is one of them.
By the way, SAY HELLO to your INBRED DJT DICKRIDER DDAY for me Savvy. You both can go to Hell. OH WAIT?! LMFAO!
Good luck trying to survive into this next and final cycle. Crusade is coming, and not even your SIMPS are going to fall on their swords for you Savvy. You DEGENERATE.
BeastGohanofTruth
Karma: 212
Thu, Jul 09I'm done wasting my time on this Dying of a Husk Platform. And one wasting my time in this forum.
I know I am not alone in this boat, with people sick of NPCs who follow False Idols....DEUS VULT!!!!!
I know I am not alone in this boat, with people sick of NPCs who follow False Idols....DEUS VULT!!!!!
Bobb
Karma: 1,723
Thu, Jul 09You keep saying you're finished and are leaving, but you keep coming back under a different name.
Just leave....for good.
Just leave....for good.
At least Ion is now telling what we all already knew: RH got hit with the Visa/Mastercard CENSORSHIP HAMMER.
I am so sick of this 1984 bs...
TY Ion, for being honest.
I am so sick of this 1984 bs...
TY Ion, for being honest.
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Speaking from my other role and where I work, I genuinely understand what you're going through. I've lived through multiple HRP transitions over the years, including the one we're currently navigating ourselves.
With that said, there are multiple ways you may be able to continue selling portions of your catalog while remaining compliant, depending on your processor's specific requirements.
In the 3D industry, nine times out of ten it's the promotional imagery, not the product itself, that determines whether something is treated as SFW or NSFW. Using mannequin promos, technical renders, placeholder graphics, and replacing artistic nudity with more technical presentation images has allowed many products to remain available over the years while still meeting processor requirements.
You already took a positive step some time ago with the content rating system, and processors generally appreciate safeguards like that.
What I'm saying is that there may be a path back for at least part of the catalog if that's something you ultimately decide you want to pursue. Whether you choose to do that is, of course, entirely your decision.
Since you mentioned Renderotica, I did want to clarify one point for those reading this thread.
Our situation was a bit different. During the ownership transition we discovered that our previous High Risk Processor relationship had been lost due to the required changes they wanted, never being completed. Rather than obtaining a replacement, the prior team routed everything through our SFW checkout for well over a year. Once we became aware of that, we shut our NSFW checkout down ourselves so we could return to operating properly while pursuing a new HRP.
We're still able to sell a large portion of our NSFW catalog today, with comics and image sets currently being the biggest exception, and we're adding more products back regularly as they meet current requirements. At the same time, we're continuing discussions with multiple HRPs to restore full functionality without sacrificing large portions of our catalog.
If you ever want to compare notes on what has and hasn't worked for us during the HRP process, I'd genuinely be happy to do so privately. Regardless of the different paths our companies choose, I think sharing knowledge within our industry ultimately benefits everyone.
If removing NSFW content for good ultimately becomes RenderHub's long term direction, then I'd also like everyone affected by these changes to know that you'll always have a home with us. Whether you're an artist, a vendor, or simply someone looking for a place that continues to support this type of content, we'll do our best to help however we can. We're still working through our own HRP process, but we're making progress every day, and we're always happy to answer questions, help where we can, and welcome both new and returning members of the community.
With that said, there are multiple ways you may be able to continue selling portions of your catalog while remaining compliant, depending on your processor's specific requirements.
In the 3D industry, nine times out of ten it's the promotional imagery, not the product itself, that determines whether something is treated as SFW or NSFW. Using mannequin promos, technical renders, placeholder graphics, and replacing artistic nudity with more technical presentation images has allowed many products to remain available over the years while still meeting processor requirements.
You already took a positive step some time ago with the content rating system, and processors generally appreciate safeguards like that.
What I'm saying is that there may be a path back for at least part of the catalog if that's something you ultimately decide you want to pursue. Whether you choose to do that is, of course, entirely your decision.
Since you mentioned Renderotica, I did want to clarify one point for those reading this thread.
Our situation was a bit different. During the ownership transition we discovered that our previous High Risk Processor relationship had been lost due to the required changes they wanted, never being completed. Rather than obtaining a replacement, the prior team routed everything through our SFW checkout for well over a year. Once we became aware of that, we shut our NSFW checkout down ourselves so we could return to operating properly while pursuing a new HRP.
We're still able to sell a large portion of our NSFW catalog today, with comics and image sets currently being the biggest exception, and we're adding more products back regularly as they meet current requirements. At the same time, we're continuing discussions with multiple HRPs to restore full functionality without sacrificing large portions of our catalog.
If you ever want to compare notes on what has and hasn't worked for us during the HRP process, I'd genuinely be happy to do so privately. Regardless of the different paths our companies choose, I think sharing knowledge within our industry ultimately benefits everyone.
If removing NSFW content for good ultimately becomes RenderHub's long term direction, then I'd also like everyone affected by these changes to know that you'll always have a home with us. Whether you're an artist, a vendor, or simply someone looking for a place that continues to support this type of content, we'll do our best to help however we can. We're still working through our own HRP process, but we're making progress every day, and we're always happy to answer questions, help where we can, and welcome both new and returning members of the community.
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Ion
Karma: 5,679
Wed, Jul 08I am totally open to ideas. Lets keep continue this conversation in a couple of days. Maybe we can setup a google meet to discuss.
guy91600
Karma: 19,118
Thu, Jul 09As a payment method, there is a European alternative to Mastercard and Visa: the CB (Carte Bleue) group.
https://www.cartes-bancaires.com/cb/groupement/
I hope this information helps.
https://www.cartes-bancaires.com/cb/groupement/
I hope this information helps.
guy91600
Karma: 19,118
Thu, Jul 09If online payment platforms like Visa, Mastercard, and PayPal are indeed the ones behind this censorship, the solution is to stop using them and switch to domestic and international bank transfers. Of course, for international transfers to be cost-effective for the recipient, the amount needs to be substantial, as the fees are fixed regardless of the transaction size—not to mention currency exchange fees, which PayPal charges as well.
This is with the most respect of the world, since I'm here not as a seller, but as a consumer.
.
I think the thing that a seller wants, more than anything else, is stability to do their work. And even more with a NSFW seller, since they're always being "pushed out" from the 3d spaces while the time goes by.
.
When you guys do that power move, you guys unilaterally are breaking that confidence that the seller put on you. And that isn't a easy thing to recover, and I fear you guys won't be able to do that.
.
It's obvious that an exodus will occur, and I think you guys are probably looking at the ways on how your business will be affected, but, as business partners, I think it was your obligation to give at least some days of space for people eventually come to a plan, after all we know that, for many creators, nsfw or not, this affect directly they ways of income and support.
.
That was scummy and a terrible business decision that should've been reviewed internally before turning itself into public. Don't you guys find ironic that, at this moment, certain assets and 3d models who were here are only able to be find on piracy sites? This demotivates the sellers even more on producing their content.
.
Honestly, Renderhub was one of the best sites for specific content, in my case the experimentations from Pawngame and the candid content from Boobs Academy, but with this decision, I think both creators are feeling punished for being compentent on their work. This is a feeling that won't go away. At all.
.
I think people doesn't fight enough against those types who want to say how adult people wants to spend their own money, but looking at how the things are here in Brazil, when PIX arrived, the only thing those types could do was crying to the Government and say that what people were doing "wasn't fair" and basically "affected systematically" (their words) their business, just by giving people the freedom on how the population could spend their own money on their own terms, without any intermediate.
.
And, to summarize, I wish you guys your best, but I won't be staying anymore.
.
Best regards, Arth.
.
I think the thing that a seller wants, more than anything else, is stability to do their work. And even more with a NSFW seller, since they're always being "pushed out" from the 3d spaces while the time goes by.
.
When you guys do that power move, you guys unilaterally are breaking that confidence that the seller put on you. And that isn't a easy thing to recover, and I fear you guys won't be able to do that.
.
It's obvious that an exodus will occur, and I think you guys are probably looking at the ways on how your business will be affected, but, as business partners, I think it was your obligation to give at least some days of space for people eventually come to a plan, after all we know that, for many creators, nsfw or not, this affect directly they ways of income and support.
.
That was scummy and a terrible business decision that should've been reviewed internally before turning itself into public. Don't you guys find ironic that, at this moment, certain assets and 3d models who were here are only able to be find on piracy sites? This demotivates the sellers even more on producing their content.
.
Honestly, Renderhub was one of the best sites for specific content, in my case the experimentations from Pawngame and the candid content from Boobs Academy, but with this decision, I think both creators are feeling punished for being compentent on their work. This is a feeling that won't go away. At all.
.
I think people doesn't fight enough against those types who want to say how adult people wants to spend their own money, but looking at how the things are here in Brazil, when PIX arrived, the only thing those types could do was crying to the Government and say that what people were doing "wasn't fair" and basically "affected systematically" (their words) their business, just by giving people the freedom on how the population could spend their own money on their own terms, without any intermediate.
.
And, to summarize, I wish you guys your best, but I won't be staying anymore.
.
Best regards, Arth.
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! REPORT
Hi, Ion, thank you very much for this clarification!
I had already suspected that this might be an HRP issue. In this thread, you confirm that (albeit indirectly).
But wouldn't it have been better to be honest in the announcement (in the other thread) and disclose the facts? There probably would have been a shitstorm anyway... but perhaps not on this scale ...
Anyway-here's a very quick question about editing NSFW promos: Would it be enough to add censorship bars to the images using Photoshop to hide nipples, etc.?
I had already suspected that this might be an HRP issue. In this thread, you confirm that (albeit indirectly).
But wouldn't it have been better to be honest in the announcement (in the other thread) and disclose the facts? There probably would have been a shitstorm anyway... but perhaps not on this scale ...
Anyway-here's a very quick question about editing NSFW promos: Would it be enough to add censorship bars to the images using Photoshop to hide nipples, etc.?
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RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 16,238
Thu, Jul 09I'm pretty sure clearer guidelines will be posted soon. I know it might be hard to find, so here's a screenshot of Ion addressing this above.
Ugh - sorry to hear this, Ion. I am sure it's a hard decision because it will hurt to the store and vendors revenue stream. But, I can understand because the credit companies can shut down service without any warning for any reason they want... sadly. Thanks for the heads up.
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The irony of our world today is absolute. On one side, we have a broken justice system that lets actual predators and monsters roam free through endless loopholes. On the other, we have banking monopolies and payment gateways playing 'moral police,' financially strong arming platforms over victimless, fictional 3D pixels. I don't think it's right to put blame on RenderHub or any other platform at all, their hands are tied, and they are forced to comply with these ridiculous mandates like other 3d platforms, just to keep the lights on. The real hypocrisy lies with a legal system that fails real victims, and payment processors that comfortably bully digital artists just to protect their own corporate liabilities, and then there are we the people around the world who have stayed silent for too long to be controlled by these people.
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supremoomega
Karma: 4,818
Wed, Jul 08He also adds that they want to withdraw cash worldwide, and that they control your money, and if you don't submit to "their laws", with the push of a button they freeze your account, and end your life.
fantasyrenders
Karma: 7,585
Wed, Jul 08It's high time digital creators, independent artists globally, and even common people voice their concern against these overreaching corporate monopolies. The irony is undeniable: those dictating moral standards to digital artists often carry their own heavy controversies, yet they continue to leverage financial infrastructure to exert complete control over independent livelihoods. Major social media giants have faced massive global investigations (like the BBC report in India) regarding highly illicit and damaging content on their networks, yet they face zero payment processing restrictions. Meanwhile, independent 3D artists creating victimless pixels are targeted instantly. The hypocrisy is staggering.
Hi everyone, I want to thank Ion for being so honest. I agree with some of the forum posts, we need clear rules about what's allowed and what isn't, and the best ways to obscure content. For example, I sell nipple geographs, do they need to be censored in some way? I'm planning to release my own genital models for Genesis 9, what should I do with them? Showing gray models or releasing genital models on RenderHub isn't really an option anymore, is it? What about promotional characters, bare breasts, genitals? Is it okay to show breasts or not? We need clear guidelines for releasing content.
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RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 16,238
Thu, Jul 09I'm pretty sure clearer guidelines will be posted soon. I know it might be hard to find, so here's a screenshot of Ion addressing this above.
It's happening all over the place guys, it's not just one place. The world is changing. Sites are been closed over night with no explication, people around the world are going to have use VPN to access a lot of sites. Yes it sucks there was no notice, but if you're given a choice to conform or shutdown then there isn't much you can do. It's a wonder it's got away with it this long. best of luck !
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stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 2,759
Thu, Jul 09Finally, a reasonable response to the situation. I can tell you that I'd rather have no adult content than no site at all.
Knowing how payment processors are like, a decision like this sucks of course, but it makes sense.
If i were put in a position to basically save my site or die with it, especially if its such a quick decision, I would also save my site and the people on it.
Ofcourse a warning or notice would be nice but we don't always get the option to have time.
This decision has hit my store like a train, 150 products down to around 20 hurts me alot, the time and dedication I've put over many years just gone, and it wasn't even us as a sellers fault.
But I hope for the sellers who still remain here, since mature content is still open (not sure for how long), stay strong through these tough payment processor ass times, I will still try and make content, innovate and make good products, but I and many other sellers who only sold nsfw, will be hit with a massive financial loss, my sfw stuff didn't sell as much as my nsfw and I know its not just my store. With this change to nsfw can you guarantee that our normal content will be sold the same amount? It's also a big financial hit to the hub considering (and I bet) nsfw made alot more than sfw did.
Working around sfw and mature filters will be challenging, and to the buyers who want to move platform, I ask you to stay just for abit. If not for the hub, for the sellers, alot will still remain and we will need your support more than ever in these tough times.
If i were put in a position to basically save my site or die with it, especially if its such a quick decision, I would also save my site and the people on it.
Ofcourse a warning or notice would be nice but we don't always get the option to have time.
This decision has hit my store like a train, 150 products down to around 20 hurts me alot, the time and dedication I've put over many years just gone, and it wasn't even us as a sellers fault.
But I hope for the sellers who still remain here, since mature content is still open (not sure for how long), stay strong through these tough payment processor ass times, I will still try and make content, innovate and make good products, but I and many other sellers who only sold nsfw, will be hit with a massive financial loss, my sfw stuff didn't sell as much as my nsfw and I know its not just my store. With this change to nsfw can you guarantee that our normal content will be sold the same amount? It's also a big financial hit to the hub considering (and I bet) nsfw made alot more than sfw did.
Working around sfw and mature filters will be challenging, and to the buyers who want to move platform, I ask you to stay just for abit. If not for the hub, for the sellers, alot will still remain and we will need your support more than ever in these tough times.
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Boobs Academy
Karma: 9,212
Thu, Jul 09I liked your stuff very much. Often totally unique ideas and themes. Never seen you on R*Rotica? When they can solve their own problems maybe it goes upwards with this place again.
Please don’t apologize- it was clear as daylight why you had to act fast and lean up“. It’s not ideal, yes. But the alternative would be that we all lose. Maybe the admins can make a post where we can have we have clear guidelines to follow?
Stay safe
Stay safe
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 51,913
Thu, Jul 09^ THIS ^
I'd hate to render promo images only to find out that they're still being filtered out
BTW - as I was thinking about your post, I came up with an idea for the ULTIMATE SFW camouflage: a burqa
Sure, you wouldn't be able to see the 3D clothing underneath, or the pose, or whatever... but at least that would probably please the Taliban 2.0 (by which I don't mean Renderhub, Ion, or the community, but the groups behind all the hassle with online payments)
I'd hate to render promo images only to find out that they're still being filtered out
BTW - as I was thinking about your post, I came up with an idea for the ULTIMATE SFW camouflage: a burqa
Sure, you wouldn't be able to see the 3D clothing underneath, or the pose, or whatever... but at least that would probably please the Taliban 2.0 (by which I don't mean Renderhub, Ion, or the community, but the groups behind all the hassle with online payments)
KuraiKya
Karma: 21,125
Thu, Jul 09Uhm....? Wouldnt that be false advertising?
If you dont sell what is seen or something more in the files?
If you dont sell what is seen or something more in the files?
guy91600
Karma: 19,118
Thu, Jul 09@Pushee
For the promotional image, you might as well just put the text "Censored,"
and describe the product in the Product Description section while avoiding the words on the blacklist
For the promotional image, you might as well just put the text "Censored,"
and describe the product in the Product Description section while avoiding the words on the blacklist
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 51,913
Thu, Jul 09@Guy
So - I think the burqa idea is really great and fitting
I already asked about the censorship bar earlier. Full-body GeoShells would probably also be an option (e.g., for my Slipables). I already have a few ideas - but I’m waiting to see if the admins create some kind of 'How-To Camouflage' thread that we can follow.
So - I think the burqa idea is really great and fitting
I already asked about the censorship bar earlier. Full-body GeoShells would probably also be an option (e.g., for my Slipables). I already have a few ideas - but I’m waiting to see if the admins create some kind of 'How-To Camouflage' thread that we can follow.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 51,913
Thu, Jul 09@KurayKia
I just checked my PasahRi account (while not logged in). 5 out of 15 projects made it into the Mature rating. Here’s an example below.
I don’t think your products come close to that in terms of suggestiveness or nudity, do they? So everything should be fine for your promos
https://www.renderhub.com/pasahri/flatbush-g9-2d-pubes-for-genesis-female-9
https://www.renderhub.com/pasahri/slipslip-dforce-panty-for-genesis-9
https://www.renderhub.com/pasahri/hofsone-chair-poses-for-gf8-gf8-1
I just checked my PasahRi account (while not logged in). 5 out of 15 projects made it into the Mature rating. Here’s an example below.
I don’t think your products come close to that in terms of suggestiveness or nudity, do they? So everything should be fine for your promos
https://www.renderhub.com/pasahri/flatbush-g9-2d-pubes-for-genesis-female-9
https://www.renderhub.com/pasahri/slipslip-dforce-panty-for-genesis-9
https://www.renderhub.com/pasahri/hofsone-chair-poses-for-gf8-gf8-1
RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 16,238
Thu, Jul 09I'm pretty sure this will be happening soon. I know it might be hard to find, so here's a screenshot of Ion addressing this above.
Boobs Academy
Karma: 9,212
Thu, Jul 09Pushee-Ri: "I came up with an idea for the ULTIMATE SFW camouflage: a burqa"
Sounds like a weird fetish to me
Sounds like a weird fetish to me
First and foremost, I have to say that I am shocked by the news regarding the removal of NSFW content from the RenderHub catalogs. As a 3D artist, I have been working on RenderHub for over 3 years, and during this time, I have published more than 100 NSFW items-and in a single instant, all of it just became trash?
I believe this move shows a major lack of respect toward the creators, who are the core and the primary source of revenue for the RenderHub website. It will also impact the number of users who bought NSFW content on this platform.
Why doesn't RenderHub do what the Civitai website did, for example, by separating all adult content into a standalone site, Civitai.red? I urge the administration to be reasonable toward the creators and consumers of NSFW content and move it to a separate site-RenderHub.red!!!
I believe this move shows a major lack of respect toward the creators, who are the core and the primary source of revenue for the RenderHub website. It will also impact the number of users who bought NSFW content on this platform.
Why doesn't RenderHub do what the Civitai website did, for example, by separating all adult content into a standalone site, Civitai.red? I urge the administration to be reasonable toward the creators and consumers of NSFW content and move it to a separate site-RenderHub.red!!!
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! REPORT
Hello, I am one of the latest creators to start selling content here on RenderHub. Even though I don't create Adult Content, my small store is just finally starting to gain traction.
Don't you think that by applying this policy, many buyers will leave along with the creators? The biggest loss will be on us small sellers, because we will lose a significant portion of potential buyers.
Don't you think that by applying this policy, many buyers will leave along with the creators? The biggest loss will be on us small sellers, because we will lose a significant portion of potential buyers.
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! REPORT
Boobs Academy
Karma: 9,212
Thu, Jul 09I think also the focus on erotic stuff should not be lost because this was the difference to other shops. Just focus on the erotic material which is now still allowed. I guess this will catch the attention of the "dark powers" who caused all this but even they have to stick to their own rules.
@ion
Can I remove NSFW/Adult content from some of my products (with clean cut non adult promos) and change the rating to mature or lower? Is that allowed? Or do I have to resubmit it as a new product?
I have multiple products which could be turned into SFW easily.
Please let me know.
Thank you.
Can I remove NSFW/Adult content from some of my products (with clean cut non adult promos) and change the rating to mature or lower? Is that allowed? Or do I have to resubmit it as a new product?
I have multiple products which could be turned into SFW easily.
Please let me know.
Thank you.
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! REPORT
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 51,913
Thu, Jul 09@Pawngame
Ion has written (12 hours ago): 'The best thing to do is just go into product manager, make any changes to promo images or descriptions, then save it. The Adult rating will still be selected, but the item will queue up for us to check and we can change it to Mature if it is all good.'
Ion has written (12 hours ago): 'The best thing to do is just go into product manager, make any changes to promo images or descriptions, then save it. The Adult rating will still be selected, but the item will queue up for us to check and we can change it to Mature if it is all good.'
RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 16,238
Thu, Jul 09I can answer this one for you because Ion already addressed it above. I know it might be hard to find, so I took screenshots of the pertinent replies for you.
Pawngame
Karma: 37,398
Thu, Jul 09Thank you.
I just resubmitted Back Alley Environment. We'll see how that goes.
I just resubmitted Back Alley Environment. We'll see how that goes.
Pawngame
Karma: 37,398
Thu, Jul 09Just so I'm 1000% sure, is the rating based on Promos & Thumbnails only or Promos, Thumbnails AND the product itself?
I know this may sound stupid, but I'd rather triple check the new policy change.
Thank you for helping us through this new direction.
I know this may sound stupid, but I'd rather triple check the new policy change.
Thank you for helping us through this new direction.
Foxy 3D
Admin: 58,773
Thu, Jul 09The content rating is based upon the context of the submission as a whole. As long as there's nothing that falls into the NSFW 18+ examples listed here, you should be fine:
https://www.renderhub.com/info/mature-content-policy#z04
And your question does not sound stupid at all, especially during this transition period.
https://www.renderhub.com/info/mature-content-policy#z04
And your question does not sound stupid at all, especially during this transition period.
LoveRealPeople
Karma: 905
Thu, Jul 09Well at least your content is still on renderotica, but you offered better deals here. I'll pick up your bar soon.
Hey, will the physiatrist office adult poses go on renderotica?
Hey, will the physiatrist office adult poses go on renderotica?
When it comes to objects like bondage devices, can you promote them as a purely technical product.
And you show the different device preset poses just witout characters but you say that character poses are included.
Maybe more general... can you redesign the promotion of different products to fit the rules?
And you show the different device preset poses just witout characters but you say that character poses are included.
Maybe more general... can you redesign the promotion of different products to fit the rules?
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! REPORT
I think you see what happened to Otica... where their Visa service was shutdown immediately probably with no warning.. and now it's been over a month of them trying to set up a new billing system... I don't blame Renderhub for having to act fast.
It does suck for vendors who sell NSFW creations. But, if you've been a p0rn artist for some years you have encountered this yourself as well. Two years ago the credit companies will be fine with a certain fetish and then suddenly, this year, they will ban that same fetish and give you no warning to get rid of it. With no explanation. In the early 2000's this wiped out a lot of fetish sites. A lot of sites.
Perhaps the XXX vendors here form a group and create a NSFW site/store like Hub or Otica on their own. NaughtyRender dot com Or...
There are already NSFW vendors who've been around for many years who already have encountered these same issues of sites cutting them off... and created their own venues. Then they promote themselves at DA or elsewhere. I've seen many NSFW vendors sell through DA as well.
Daz and Renderosity are big sites. All the rest are run by individuals mainly. So, I don't blame Hub for protecting themselves from VISA just shutting their billing down altogether.
It does suck for vendors who sell NSFW creations. But, if you've been a p0rn artist for some years you have encountered this yourself as well. Two years ago the credit companies will be fine with a certain fetish and then suddenly, this year, they will ban that same fetish and give you no warning to get rid of it. With no explanation. In the early 2000's this wiped out a lot of fetish sites. A lot of sites.
Perhaps the XXX vendors here form a group and create a NSFW site/store like Hub or Otica on their own. NaughtyRender dot com
Or... There are already NSFW vendors who've been around for many years who already have encountered these same issues of sites cutting them off... and created their own venues. Then they promote themselves at DA or elsewhere. I've seen many NSFW vendors sell through DA as well.
Daz and Renderosity are big sites. All the rest are run by individuals mainly. So, I don't blame Hub for protecting themselves from VISA just shutting their billing down altogether.
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! REPORT
You can't doge the bullet by going to another site, It has to be outside US laws URO laws and you may need a VPN to access it. They will eventually catch up with you. It's anime sites as well there is a big shift happening. Unless someone comes up with some legal argument to get around it ?
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! REPORT
LoveRealPeople
Karma: 905
Thu, Jul 09Is this related to the Childe Protect Act, because I thought US had free speech laws?
Given that, what about a peer 2 peer system with a payment system?
Given that, what about a peer 2 peer system with a payment system?
sharp8322
Karma: 166
15 Hours agoAs a US native we have free speech but that only applies to govt to keep from censoring us not busienssines. Now i have been doing some research and sees there are some bills in pursuit to make it so cc companies can't do stuff liek this anymore i will. Tehres 2 bills i ahve see one in your house other in our senate trying to fight this very thing
LoveRealPeople
Karma: 905
5 Hours agoChild protect act and the identity related laws are a bitch. I'm asking if anyone would be interested in developing a peer 2 peer network solution, but I need to make sure it's legally compliant.
I checked and Amazon servers do allow for adult content. So AMZ I don't think is part of this crackdown.
I checked and Amazon servers do allow for adult content. So AMZ I don't think is part of this crackdown.
If the explicit NSFW conent is the problem i would suggest you do at least a separate main category for the mature stuff to avoid losing the customers who come here to find erotic products. Hiding the most erotic but allowed conent which is left now in the big pile of other products is no good idea.
Or maybe adapt the filter to not show all AND mature produts but show ONLY mature products.
Or maybe adapt the filter to not show all AND mature produts but show ONLY mature products.
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LoveRealPeople
Karma: 905
Thu, Jul 09I think this might be related to the child protect act and push to remove or censor NSFW explicit content.
So, I think a peer to peer system with transaction may have to happen as long as the content is still legal.
So, I think a peer to peer system with transaction may have to happen as long as the content is still legal.
So the answer to that question...
>Why we had to make the NSFW changes
is
>payment processor rules
?
Who exactly? Paypal? Visa?
Which rules?
Based upon whims or laws?
We are talking digital products here. No human is involved, save the makers and buyers. Nothing that happens here endangers anybody.
Perhaps I missed the hard data in this threat.
Just trying to clear up who is causing the actual trouble on what base.
>Why we had to make the NSFW changes
is
>payment processor rules
?
Who exactly? Paypal? Visa?
Which rules?
Based upon whims or laws?
We are talking digital products here. No human is involved, save the makers and buyers. Nothing that happens here endangers anybody.
Perhaps I missed the hard data in this threat.
Just trying to clear up who is causing the actual trouble on what base.
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LoveRealPeople
Karma: 905
Thu, Jul 09Political initiative and possible preparation for the Protect Child Act. My guesses.
hm is it still possible to sell famous look alike models of the adult industry or actresses etc. when they keep their clothes on? And or needs the description of the product changed as well or now only it is possible to use just random fictive characters?
kind regards
kind regards
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! REPORT
In my very humble opinion, there are two ways this could play out.
1) Submit to all current and future demands and restrictions from payment systems, religious groups, moralizers, minority rights advocates, and other hypocritical parasites. This means losing trust, popularity, and profit, ultimately turning into just another store like dazstore or rosity with no real competitive edge.
2) Show some backbone, move the site to another jurisdiction where internet freedom still exists, tell Visa, Mastercard, and PayPal to screw off, and switch to crypto transactions. Allow everything that was banned. Bring in something new, like adult games and 3D video content. Become the new flagship platform for all NSFW content creators and consumers.
But then again, it's easy for me to talk big when I don't own the site and don't have to worry about the staff.
1) Submit to all current and future demands and restrictions from payment systems, religious groups, moralizers, minority rights advocates, and other hypocritical parasites. This means losing trust, popularity, and profit, ultimately turning into just another store like dazstore or rosity with no real competitive edge.
2) Show some backbone, move the site to another jurisdiction where internet freedom still exists, tell Visa, Mastercard, and PayPal to screw off, and switch to crypto transactions. Allow everything that was banned. Bring in something new, like adult games and 3D video content. Become the new flagship platform for all NSFW content creators and consumers.
But then again, it's easy for me to talk big when I don't own the site and don't have to worry about the staff.
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Still patiently waiting on a clearer policy and it would be much appreciated if you can guarantee us vendors that it won't be a waste of time to keep trying to sell here. Some of us basically lost our jobs without any warning. I hope there won't be a need to completely remove Mature section too down the road.
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LoveRealPeople
Karma: 905
Thu, Jul 09How hard would it be for you to sell directly? I had some of your product on my wishlist?
oomphy
Karma: 16,246
Thu, Jul 09Honestly I haven't figured that out.. I'm not sure about direct payment at the moment
LoveRealPeople
Karma: 905
5 Hours agoI've been using AI agents, but not sure how secure an AI agent could be to help with transaction and order fulfillment, but I think it might be a good solution to explore.
Quote:
"[...] and switch to crypto transactions."
That's no option, at least not for me.
While all these payment tech stuff, like Visa, Mastercard or Paypal deserve being bashed on, crypto transactions are no better.
I don't trust it and I don't want to get involved in it it in any way. Doesn't the Trump familly have their dirty fingers in that crypto stuff?
So a clear no from my side, because I think, that this would be even worse.
Frankly, I think, I'm not the only one.
"[...] and switch to crypto transactions."
That's no option, at least not for me.
While all these payment tech stuff, like Visa, Mastercard or Paypal deserve being bashed on, crypto transactions are no better.
I don't trust it and I don't want to get involved in it it in any way. Doesn't the Trump familly have their dirty fingers in that crypto stuff?
So a clear no from my side, because I think, that this would be even worse.
Frankly, I think, I'm not the only one.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,723
Thu, Jul 09I'd be willing to send a money order if it came to that. It's slow but couldn't be stopped or regulated. This would work better for a private seller with their own site on say, Deviant Art.
Boobs Academy
Karma: 9,212
Thu, Jul 09I have tried this method one time for payout to safe transaction fees but after weeks when my european bank handled the papers the transaction was rejected. AND they told me that I have no claim on the money anyways because US transfers of this kind can be called back for years on.
Wolf007
Karma: 275
Thu, Jul 09My understanding after a some searches is that Crypto has changed a lot over the years. Is not some one-to-one faith on the other party transaction and delays/rejections that made online shops difficult can be avoided.
For e-commerce you may need to avoid the usual Bitcoin/Etherium stuff because there is too much volatility.
Stablecoins are the way to go for online stores, there are processors that already have plugins for popular Online Store solutions.
Buying and selling Crypto is easier. You can buy the crypto with your credit card, debit card or even Apple/Google pay.
I'm even reading that there are compliance with some EU regulations so as long the products being sold are legal (and you are not hiding something illegal, like money loundering); no one should be able to directly interfere with the transactions and payment process.
Unless selling illegal stuff or hosting on a country that is an enemy or in a dangerous list, there wouldn't even be a need for VPNs.
Another huge advantage: transaction fees are usually just flat 1%
As a customer, i'm willing to give it a try (and not just for 'adult' stuff).
I was looking mostly at coinbase, just for reference.
For e-commerce you may need to avoid the usual Bitcoin/Etherium stuff because there is too much volatility.
Stablecoins are the way to go for online stores, there are processors that already have plugins for popular Online Store solutions.
Buying and selling Crypto is easier. You can buy the crypto with your credit card, debit card or even Apple/Google pay.
I'm even reading that there are compliance with some EU regulations so as long the products being sold are legal (and you are not hiding something illegal, like money loundering); no one should be able to directly interfere with the transactions and payment process.
Unless selling illegal stuff or hosting on a country that is an enemy or in a dangerous list, there wouldn't even be a need for VPNs.
Another huge advantage: transaction fees are usually just flat 1%
As a customer, i'm willing to give it a try (and not just for 'adult' stuff).
I was looking mostly at coinbase, just for reference.
LoveRealPeople
Karma: 905
Thu, Jul 09You can use the major credit cards to make the purchases, a crypto could help, but in reality all you need is something else to officiate the transaction. So on paper the purchase could be for a "meme coin" but the buyer gets the adult content. I'd have to check with laws but if the content was legal I don't see any issues with this method.
This makes, me sad.
Well I understand your hands are tied on letting people continue to sell such assets.
I have to ask will there at least be an option to allow us to get back up Winrar and Zip files of our own assets/promo images so that we can migrate the stuff to other stores.
That way safe stuff stays here and everything else goes elsewhere.
Well I understand your hands are tied on letting people continue to sell such assets.
I have to ask will there at least be an option to allow us to get back up Winrar and Zip files of our own assets/promo images so that we can migrate the stuff to other stores.
That way safe stuff stays here and everything else goes elsewhere.
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Knew I was right. If a site has adult content and they remove it out of the blue then it's the payment processors working behind the scenes.
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Sorry to hear about the NSFW content being removed. It's disappointing, although I can't say I'm completely surprised.
A while back, when I noticed payments for clearly adult products... even if they were just assets... were still being processed through mainstream payment processors, I had a feeling this might eventually happen. We learned that lesson ourselves after Gumroad and moved to an adult-friendly payment processor. The fees are higher, but for us it was worth the added stability. We've found that separating adult content from mainstream operations and using an adult-friendly processor has made our business much more resilient to situations like this.
I'll definitely miss browsing the adult section every day and discovering new work from so many talented creators.
That said, if you're a gay NSFW creator selling directly to consumers and you're looking for a new or additional home for your work, feel free to reach out. We'd be happy to have a conversation and see if there's a good fit.
A while back, when I noticed payments for clearly adult products... even if they were just assets... were still being processed through mainstream payment processors, I had a feeling this might eventually happen. We learned that lesson ourselves after Gumroad and moved to an adult-friendly payment processor. The fees are higher, but for us it was worth the added stability. We've found that separating adult content from mainstream operations and using an adult-friendly processor has made our business much more resilient to situations like this.
I'll definitely miss browsing the adult section every day and discovering new work from so many talented creators.
That said, if you're a gay NSFW creator selling directly to consumers and you're looking for a new or additional home for your work, feel free to reach out. We'd be happy to have a conversation and see if there's a good fit.
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Well a warning would have been prudent, And well been a whole lot easier to deal with. So with that in mind the fact that most of my work was arbitrarily obliterated, I removed the rest of it, and am in the process of a safety backup of all that I have purchased here and then. I will remove myself from this site in protest, not to the fact that you underhandedly removed a lot of Items, no that you warned no one. you just let everyone go along like nothing was happening then you pulled the rug out. That is what I am angry about. There was a better way you chose not to use it. and for that I am calling on every vender to pull everything from this place completely. And without warning just like RH gave us.... Makes me glad that I did not start selling here. My first item was ready now I will find a place that is reliable to post it on. Adios
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Not for nothing but sites like Pornhub and OnlyFans exist and they take payments. Just use what they use?
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V8Infinite
Karma: 16,242
Thu, Jul 09I asked the exact same question here last night...
It's strange how a 3D dildo can be considered a problem, while ultra-trash content on OnlyFans isn't...
It's strange how a 3D dildo can be considered a problem, while ultra-trash content on OnlyFans isn't...
Yeah, I am reading the other comments, and your post seems almost entirely sculpted by lawyers.
You are not on our side. The moment you decided standing up to puritanical money folk was too much trouble, you joined those universities that sold out their people for money.
And I am going to call you out on the comparisons to Renderotica. That site offers almost exclusively adult content; RenderHub had the chance to create identity/age checks or segmenting your adult content behind a nominal [like a single Euro, so as to not penalize folk for being over 18] to keep inappropriate content away from people too young to see it.
But no. You decided that trying to institute some extremely basic protections were just too hard to implement, so you screwed over your creators - who have provided you a sizable portion of your income for the past decade or so.
As well, you will not be able to argue that your site is going to magically become family-friendly with the removal of so-called 'adult' content, because a majority of your character models feature large-hipped women with enormous busts; that might make an underage person looking at them feel the first sparks of arousal; some could call that grooming. So sexist and offering problematic content, to boot.
All because you wouldn't stand up to a bunch of puritanical zealots. Shame on you, man. You're a walking shanda.
You are not on our side. The moment you decided standing up to puritanical money folk was too much trouble, you joined those universities that sold out their people for money.
And I am going to call you out on the comparisons to Renderotica. That site offers almost exclusively adult content; RenderHub had the chance to create identity/age checks or segmenting your adult content behind a nominal [like a single Euro, so as to not penalize folk for being over 18] to keep inappropriate content away from people too young to see it.
But no. You decided that trying to institute some extremely basic protections were just too hard to implement, so you screwed over your creators - who have provided you a sizable portion of your income for the past decade or so.
As well, you will not be able to argue that your site is going to magically become family-friendly with the removal of so-called 'adult' content, because a majority of your character models feature large-hipped women with enormous busts; that might make an underage person looking at them feel the first sparks of arousal; some could call that grooming. So sexist and offering problematic content, to boot.
All because you wouldn't stand up to a bunch of puritanical zealots. Shame on you, man. You're a walking shanda.
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LoveRealPeople
Karma: 905
Thu, Jul 09I'm busy, but you want to help build a website to offer adult 3D products? Or a peer to peer network? Or something...
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 2,759
18 Hours ago@JackOh
And another one steps up to the microphone to announce how oblivious they are to what's happening in the REAL WORLD.
Do you really think a single website "standing up" to the government or corporations that control the flow of money would end well? No, it would not. That would most likely result in *all vendors* losing the ability to sell their products here.
As far as Renderotica goes, that's a real comparison. Do you even know what's going on there? Do you even have the slightest clue that Renderotica is dealing with its own payment processing issues at this very moment?
Age checks? That doesn't solve the issue of the problem content being on the website. If you've been paying attention at all to what's going on here, it would be obvious to you that *adult content appearing on the website* is the problem. Not the possibility of minors seeing it.
"large-hipped women with enormous busts" - If you don't realize the difference between that and *actual* adult content, I don't even know what to say.
I think RenderHub was faced with a very difficult decision, and they chose to SAVE THE MAJORITY of their vendors and customer base instead of "standing up" in a losing battle attempting to save a few.
Is this a bad situation for those affected? Absolutely. But it's much better than being a bad situation for all.
And another one steps up to the microphone to announce how oblivious they are to what's happening in the REAL WORLD.
Do you really think a single website "standing up" to the government or corporations that control the flow of money would end well? No, it would not. That would most likely result in *all vendors* losing the ability to sell their products here.
As far as Renderotica goes, that's a real comparison. Do you even know what's going on there? Do you even have the slightest clue that Renderotica is dealing with its own payment processing issues at this very moment?
Age checks? That doesn't solve the issue of the problem content being on the website. If you've been paying attention at all to what's going on here, it would be obvious to you that *adult content appearing on the website* is the problem. Not the possibility of minors seeing it.
"large-hipped women with enormous busts" - If you don't realize the difference between that and *actual* adult content, I don't even know what to say.
I think RenderHub was faced with a very difficult decision, and they chose to SAVE THE MAJORITY of their vendors and customer base instead of "standing up" in a losing battle attempting to save a few.
Is this a bad situation for those affected? Absolutely. But it's much better than being a bad situation for all.
LoveRealPeople
Karma: 905
5 Hours agoYeah, @stevenjoseph8844 yeah, the affiliate website trick seems very last line of defense. I think it might be time to buy as many products as one could and then burn a hardcopy to blue-ray fixed media.
I think maybe a peer 2 peer network with a payment solution might be the best answer where vendors can direct sell to buyers.
I think maybe a peer 2 peer network with a payment solution might be the best answer where vendors can direct sell to buyers.
Hello Ion, About four years ago, I started selling my work on RenderHub, as well as on CGTrader and a few other marketplaces. CGTrader and RenderHub have always been my two main sources of income. When CGTrader decided to ban this type of content, it was devastating for my business. RenderHub became my refuge because it was one of the few marketplaces that openly welcomed NSFW creators and gave us a place where our work was respected.
That's why this recent decision has been incredibly painful.
I wanted to ask you something directly.
Under the "Mature" category, would it still be possible for me to keep most of my models online?
In case you're not familiar with my work, I primarily create fantasy-themed adult toys, werewolves, monsters, dragons, and other fictional creatures. While I do have some human-related content, (I understand that may not fall under that cateegory) the vast majority of my catalog is based on fantasy and does not represent real people, violence or explicit sex acts.
If I censor my thumbnails, avoid explicit keywords or tags, rename my products, or make any other necessary adjustments, is there any way I could keep most of my fantasy models on RenderHub?
I'm genuinely asking because I want to stay. I don't want to leave this community after spending years building my store here.
However, if there is absolutely no way to continue selling my work under these new rules, then I'm afraid I'll have no choice but to leave RenderHub for as long as this decision remains in effect.
I would sincerely appreciate any clarification you can give me.
Thank you.
That's why this recent decision has been incredibly painful.
I wanted to ask you something directly.
Under the "Mature" category, would it still be possible for me to keep most of my models online?
In case you're not familiar with my work, I primarily create fantasy-themed adult toys, werewolves, monsters, dragons, and other fictional creatures. While I do have some human-related content, (I understand that may not fall under that cateegory) the vast majority of my catalog is based on fantasy and does not represent real people, violence or explicit sex acts.
If I censor my thumbnails, avoid explicit keywords or tags, rename my products, or make any other necessary adjustments, is there any way I could keep most of my fantasy models on RenderHub?
I'm genuinely asking because I want to stay. I don't want to leave this community after spending years building my store here.
However, if there is absolutely no way to continue selling my work under these new rules, then I'm afraid I'll have no choice but to leave RenderHub for as long as this decision remains in effect.
I would sincerely appreciate any clarification you can give me.
Thank you.
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Ion
Karma: 5,679
Thu, Jul 09The best way is to edit 1 or 2 items and resubmit them in product manager. Moderators will see them and make a decision. In allot of cases this type of cleanup can do the trick, but sometimes it wont and we will kick it back as adult. Only way to know for sure is to try.
TriDsign
Karma: 6,169
Thu, Jul 09could a tag be a pproblem in that moderation? or just the title/images???
JohnnyDueDue
Karma: 149
17 Hours agoI'd probably try to find greener grass my man. This funny-looking guy is mighty shifty.
I went to respond to a comment and found my post deleted. This fact, despite it having been respectful, fair to you, measured with qualifying statements and well-reasoned is certainly very weird, and definitely flips my prior hesitantly-generous opinion of you and your business down the drain. Were you caught in your dishonesty a little too accurately for comfort or something? I didn't violate any rules, laws, social norms or provide any sensitive info--nor was I even rude for that matter-- so I'm inclined to believe so. Not that it matters. It's your site and you can do as you please, but 'grats on sniping yourself and the business you built in both feet at one I guess! +1 to the long list of folks who will never patronize you again. Thankfully the market will correct in favor of people that are more spinally robust and less slimeballs.
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This is part of the NSFW apocalypse - It's not as crazy as it sounds. I have a friend who's been a NSFW niche publisher for decades. I helped him a lot over the years. One of the things we frequently discussed was that banks and governments could turn the key on NSFW sites and products, shut it all off. It's been a concern, especially as craziness in society became more noticeable. The efforts have visited bigger entities and they've had to adjust. Now it's visiting the 3D world. We all have to adjust as best we can. But history is a pendulum. For a long time, it had been in a more liberal, accepting arc. But slowly and surely, the pendulum has been swinging back, becoming more regressive, more repressive. It may get a lot worse before it gets better.
I want to say something else here, something obvious: This site is Ion's business, his living. I'm going to say he made a fair amount of money from the adult part of the site and he would have liked to go on doing that. He probably still wants to do that! You would too. So, do you really think he would happily shut that all down? No. No one would. This is a crappy situation, and likely he did the best he could to keep the whole site from getting destroyed.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just sayin', it's something to think about.
I want to say something else here, something obvious: This site is Ion's business, his living. I'm going to say he made a fair amount of money from the adult part of the site and he would have liked to go on doing that. He probably still wants to do that! You would too. So, do you really think he would happily shut that all down? No. No one would. This is a crappy situation, and likely he did the best he could to keep the whole site from getting destroyed.
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I'm just sayin', it's something to think about.
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Translation of what's going on here. - Our masters say 3D art images bad! They tell us they make us feel big pain. They tell us to obey slave, and stop the evil doers who like to explore sexuality through creation, or else! - Said to the owners here probably by some cunt who has tons of skeletons in his closet.
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1. Most of my wishlist is gone.
2. My hundreds of NSFW purchases are still available to download and hopefully it stays that way or I'm out.
3. I will never purchase from 3D stores that do not offer Paypal as payment so RH needs to do whatever it has to to remain in good standing.
4. A whole lot of locker room lawyers in this forum need to grow up.
It is what it is. If you do not like it, leave. Bye.
2. My hundreds of NSFW purchases are still available to download and hopefully it stays that way or I'm out.
3. I will never purchase from 3D stores that do not offer Paypal as payment so RH needs to do whatever it has to to remain in good standing.
4. A whole lot of locker room lawyers in this forum need to grow up.
It is what it is. If you do not like it, leave. Bye.
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One see how a duopoly can dictate it's own laws.
It's on the sake of child abuse they say ! There are probably 1000's sites providing this kind of thing.
The next time could be nature conservancy, solar panels political associations, depending on who's governing.
It's very worrying for the future, when all money will be digital..
I'm not a specialist be there could be other way of payment available.
It's on the sake of child abuse they say ! There are probably 1000's sites providing this kind of thing.
The next time could be nature conservancy, solar panels political associations, depending on who's governing.
It's very worrying for the future, when all money will be digital..
I'm not a specialist be there could be other way of payment available.
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Nice try but...
You can blame my poor English for this misunderstanding, but I can't translate "we had to make", "I felt" and "proactively considering" into a straightforward narrative. In NO language, btw.
Instead of cultivation a trustfully relationship between customers, vendors, artists and visitors you cut unilateral the contracts and (long term!) promises to work together.
Well, which pathetic future think you create with such a step? Even the creators of stuffed toys, puppys and environments need trust and reliability. This is not a sensible decision for a long-term business. So is it maybe unkindly to suspect you lied? To suspect it's not a long-term business you're planning but a sale in the near future?
Fun fact: When I wrote this and thought that maybe someone from the (formerly) trustworthy RH team could say something about my suspicions I stopped when I realised that this won't count at all. Because until almost yesterday you made money with adult content creators and now you are literally spitting at them (the least would be to refund the fees for the last quarter btw).
You can blame my poor English for this misunderstanding, but I can't translate "we had to make", "I felt" and "proactively considering" into a straightforward narrative. In NO language, btw.
Instead of cultivation a trustfully relationship between customers, vendors, artists and visitors you cut unilateral the contracts and (long term!) promises to work together.
Well, which pathetic future think you create with such a step? Even the creators of stuffed toys, puppys and environments need trust and reliability. This is not a sensible decision for a long-term business. So is it maybe unkindly to suspect you lied? To suspect it's not a long-term business you're planning but a sale in the near future?
Fun fact: When I wrote this and thought that maybe someone from the (formerly) trustworthy RH team could say something about my suspicions I stopped when I realised that this won't count at all. Because until almost yesterday you made money with adult content creators and now you are literally spitting at them (the least would be to refund the fees for the last quarter btw).
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What seems strange to me is that everyone here is automatically pointing to 3D NSFW content as the source of the problem. People may have forgotten - or never even seen it - but RH also sold NSFW products featuring real people (those products were labeled as scans)
I get that not everyone is familiar with the legal side of this, but anyone who knows even a little about it understands that this is an absolute legal minefield on any platform. Selling this kind of content legally requires meeting a number of requirements, such as verifying and documenting that everyone depicted is an adult. That's one of the fundamental reasons why platforms like Pornhub, OnlyFans, and the other sites people have mentioned can legally work with payment processors
The difference is that, with these products (especially here), those kinds of formalities never seemed to be addressed. They were simply uploaded, sold, often listed across multiple pages, and nobody appeared to question it
Of course, I could be wrong. But personally, I think these are exactly the kinds of products that could be considered the real source of the problem. In a way, it's also pretty weird that this type of content was allowed into a marketplace that was primarily focused on 3D content. It's hard to believe something like that slipped past the site's management without raising any questions
I get that not everyone is familiar with the legal side of this, but anyone who knows even a little about it understands that this is an absolute legal minefield on any platform. Selling this kind of content legally requires meeting a number of requirements, such as verifying and documenting that everyone depicted is an adult. That's one of the fundamental reasons why platforms like Pornhub, OnlyFans, and the other sites people have mentioned can legally work with payment processors
The difference is that, with these products (especially here), those kinds of formalities never seemed to be addressed. They were simply uploaded, sold, often listed across multiple pages, and nobody appeared to question it
Of course, I could be wrong. But personally, I think these are exactly the kinds of products that could be considered the real source of the problem. In a way, it's also pretty weird that this type of content was allowed into a marketplace that was primarily focused on 3D content. It's hard to believe something like that slipped past the site's management without raising any questions
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DreamGamesStudio
Karma: 182
5 Hours agoI'd also add one more thing:
People keep bringing up Renderotica, but I don't think it's an appropriate comparison to RH at all. Not that I have anything against Renderotica, but the content on that site was, in many cases, fundamentally different from what RH hosted
There were games covering topics that have been strictly prohibited on most major platforms for well over a decade (incest, rape, etc.). The marketplace also sold assets representing those themes, including things like cannibalism. You can argue that it's "just 3D content," but that argument doesn't really hold up with payment processors or other parties that evaluate businesses based on reputational risk
Even setting payment processors aside, the fact remains that content depicting certain themes (including incest) is illegal in many countries, even when it's entirely fictional or 3D. That alone makes it a completely different situation from what most people seem to be comparing it to
People keep bringing up Renderotica, but I don't think it's an appropriate comparison to RH at all. Not that I have anything against Renderotica, but the content on that site was, in many cases, fundamentally different from what RH hosted
There were games covering topics that have been strictly prohibited on most major platforms for well over a decade (incest, rape, etc.). The marketplace also sold assets representing those themes, including things like cannibalism. You can argue that it's "just 3D content," but that argument doesn't really hold up with payment processors or other parties that evaluate businesses based on reputational risk
Even setting payment processors aside, the fact remains that content depicting certain themes (including incest) is illegal in many countries, even when it's entirely fictional or 3D. That alone makes it a completely different situation from what most people seem to be comparing it to