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GLBNew "AI-Enhanced" Gallery | Feedback Requested
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As AI tools become more common in digital art, we want to see how the community responds to a dedicated space for work that uses these tools.
Starting today, when uploading an image to the gallery, you'll be asked if generative AI was used to enhance it. If so, the image will appear in a new "AI-Enhanced" gallery and will not be shown in the main gallery feed.
This new section is only for images that began as 3D renders created with 3D software. Purely AI-generated images are still not allowed on RenderHub.
If any of your previous gallery images were enhanced with AI, please edit your submission and make the proper disclosure.
-----
What is AI-Enhanced?
If any part of your renders or video was generated using AI, then it must be flagged as AI-Enhanced.
What is Not AI-Enhanced?
Use of AI tools like AI upscalers or denoisers, which do not substantially change the appearance of your render, do not count as AI-Enhanced.
What is Not Allowed?
Images or videos primarily generated by AI without using a 3D model or scene.
-----
Your feedback is important. We will be listening closely and using your input to shape what comes next. Please share your thoughts below.
Starting today, when uploading an image to the gallery, you'll be asked if generative AI was used to enhance it. If so, the image will appear in a new "AI-Enhanced" gallery and will not be shown in the main gallery feed.
This new section is only for images that began as 3D renders created with 3D software. Purely AI-generated images are still not allowed on RenderHub.
If any of your previous gallery images were enhanced with AI, please edit your submission and make the proper disclosure.
-----
What is AI-Enhanced?
If any part of your renders or video was generated using AI, then it must be flagged as AI-Enhanced.
What is Not AI-Enhanced?
Use of AI tools like AI upscalers or denoisers, which do not substantially change the appearance of your render, do not count as AI-Enhanced.
What is Not Allowed?
Images or videos primarily generated by AI without using a 3D model or scene.
-----
Your feedback is important. We will be listening closely and using your input to shape what comes next. Please share your thoughts below.
! REPORT
Quote:This new section is only for images that began as 3D renders created with 3D software.
So that includes images that are renders completely restyled by AI sometimes to comic or even toon images yes?
Here is an example video of stills images from
from some of my older film projects original rendered Maxon C4D and Iclone
So that includes images that are renders completely restyled by AI sometimes to comic or even toon images yes?
Here is an example video of stills images from
from some of my older film projects original rendered Maxon C4D and Iclone
REPLY
! REPORT
AI image generation has been main stream for approx. 2 1/2 years now, and it is only becoming more prevalent.
This is reasonable approach. AI enhanced images in their own gallery. That way they don't clutter the main 3D renders gallery.
Now the question is, are the artists that have been uploading AI enhanced for a long while already, going to be asked to move those existing images to the new AI enhanced gallery? They should.
This is reasonable approach. AI enhanced images in their own gallery. That way they don't clutter the main 3D renders gallery.
Now the question is, are the artists that have been uploading AI enhanced for a long while already, going to be asked to move those existing images to the new AI enhanced gallery? They should.
REPLY
! REPORT
So you will bring down the house of cards, do you think that those who have uploaded up to now denying to use it, will now say, sorry it is not the fruit of my work ... only one artist has declared to use it and he has all my respect. so now an improved work is allowed? But you must also upload the original work in order to see the enormous difference.
REPLY
! REPORT
mrtaured
Karma: 16,573
Thu, Jun 05Regardless what they do. Those with true art can always party like this. We are the best.
And the funniest.
And the funniest.
I understand your move in this direction, generative ai is trending and being pushed very hard right now. I'm sure you follow where funding is going and the ai bubble is here to stay with so much being put into it. It won't last forever.
Pro's
Ai adds value to real work, I sold 5 prints because the buyer wants to support real artist. No one wants to buy ai stuff unless it's for publicity.
Personally I think it's a slippery slope. The same is happening web wide and many artist don't want to share a gallery with AI. Will you start selling ai generated 3d models eventually? I noticed many sites are selling ai 3d models and most people haven't even noticed.
It's your business and your decision to make where your line in the sand is regarding generative ai. I don't envy you having to eventually cross that bridge. The more i use Unreal the more I use elements of ai in the workflow making that line in the sand very blury.
As a business the choice is what is your objective and marketplace?. Is it good for business? will it boost profits? If not why bother? If it's not broke don't fix it.
If you have already built the ai gallery then you are not likely to delete it once people start posting to it. If it is already fully implemented then why ask our opinions?
Right now you actually have a strong position and are growing. You have a strong community and solid foundations to build on.
You are for many of us a last island of original creativity because of the freedom and control of our galleries and stores. Your stance on AI has attracted many of us here to stand with you against AI.
My personal views on ai are solid for the simple reason if I use it I'm not doing it myself and learning / getting better. I enjoy making things the hard way, if it were so easy everyone would be doing it.
The idea of a separate gallery may seem ok initially but I know it would put myself off from posting work. I often get frustrated trying to view galleries because of the ai images. it's disappointing to see a cool image and then realize it's ai.
To reference a past thread (sorry) if we are to have a separate gallery for ai then why not a separate gallery for erotic. If there are to be multiple galleries then why not?.
returning to your current position and thinking about a few possible scenarios.
A,
You dip into ai and eventually the community goes with it and it's no big deal. the policy gets loosened until eventually you sell only ai models because we are all working on the solar farms to keep the ai running.
B,
We all just get use to seeing a massive ai gallery taking up 70 percent of the server because if a render can take 24 hours to make can you imagine how many ai images can be generated in that time... do you want to pay for that extra server space or will it get bumped onto the stores. It's worth thinking about this especially if you get a lot of images uploaded.
C,
A large group of the community visit the site less frequently effecting sales while opening up a gap in the market for a unique and no ai asset store built by all the folks that left. it will attract all the best artist in one place showcasing incredible renders made by real people. it Hooks up with a printing on canvas/poster partner to sell both art and 3d models.
D,
My personal favorite. Renderhub doubles down on the no ai and when there is no where else for 3d artist and producers to go online it will attract all the best artist in one place showcasing incredible renders made by real people. If that happens then all our work will actually have some value and we can sell our art here as well as models. Hook up with a printing on canvas/poster partner and we are good to go
Joking aside I think it could be ok for you, I don't think it sounds like a good thing for many of us.
Remember your roots
Pro's
Ai adds value to real work, I sold 5 prints because the buyer wants to support real artist. No one wants to buy ai stuff unless it's for publicity.
Personally I think it's a slippery slope. The same is happening web wide and many artist don't want to share a gallery with AI. Will you start selling ai generated 3d models eventually? I noticed many sites are selling ai 3d models and most people haven't even noticed.
It's your business and your decision to make where your line in the sand is regarding generative ai. I don't envy you having to eventually cross that bridge. The more i use Unreal the more I use elements of ai in the workflow making that line in the sand very blury.
As a business the choice is what is your objective and marketplace?. Is it good for business? will it boost profits? If not why bother? If it's not broke don't fix it.
If you have already built the ai gallery then you are not likely to delete it once people start posting to it. If it is already fully implemented then why ask our opinions?
Right now you actually have a strong position and are growing. You have a strong community and solid foundations to build on.
You are for many of us a last island of original creativity because of the freedom and control of our galleries and stores. Your stance on AI has attracted many of us here to stand with you against AI.
My personal views on ai are solid for the simple reason if I use it I'm not doing it myself and learning / getting better. I enjoy making things the hard way, if it were so easy everyone would be doing it.
The idea of a separate gallery may seem ok initially but I know it would put myself off from posting work. I often get frustrated trying to view galleries because of the ai images. it's disappointing to see a cool image and then realize it's ai.
To reference a past thread (sorry) if we are to have a separate gallery for ai then why not a separate gallery for erotic. If there are to be multiple galleries then why not?.
returning to your current position and thinking about a few possible scenarios.
A,
You dip into ai and eventually the community goes with it and it's no big deal. the policy gets loosened until eventually you sell only ai models because we are all working on the solar farms to keep the ai running.
B,
We all just get use to seeing a massive ai gallery taking up 70 percent of the server because if a render can take 24 hours to make can you imagine how many ai images can be generated in that time... do you want to pay for that extra server space or will it get bumped onto the stores. It's worth thinking about this especially if you get a lot of images uploaded.
C,
A large group of the community visit the site less frequently effecting sales while opening up a gap in the market for a unique and no ai asset store built by all the folks that left. it will attract all the best artist in one place showcasing incredible renders made by real people. it Hooks up with a printing on canvas/poster partner to sell both art and 3d models.
D,
My personal favorite. Renderhub doubles down on the no ai and when there is no where else for 3d artist and producers to go online it will attract all the best artist in one place showcasing incredible renders made by real people. If that happens then all our work will actually have some value and we can sell our art here as well as models. Hook up with a printing on canvas/poster partner and we are good to go
Joking aside I think it could be ok for you, I don't think it sounds like a good thing for many of us.
Remember your roots
REPLY
! REPORT
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Tue, Jun 03You know, what happened to the Dinosaur?
.
.
.
.
.
.
We are the Dinosaur now!
.
.
.
.
.
.
We are the Dinosaur now!
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Tue, Jun 03We‘re more like vinyl now.
With a good old turntable system and some expensive pair of speakers.
With a good old turntable system and some expensive pair of speakers.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Wed, Jun 04I wish you're right but am afraid you're not.
Soon we will be obsolete and redundant, just a handful hobbyist left.
People are stupid thinking, there is the big money around the corner using AI, not seeing that they will be very fast redundant as well.
That's the new world.
For me this world looks dark, very dark! Others see it in the brilliant fake colors of AI.
Soon we will be obsolete and redundant, just a handful hobbyist left.
People are stupid thinking, there is the big money around the corner using AI, not seeing that they will be very fast redundant as well.
That's the new world.
For me this world looks dark, very dark! Others see it in the brilliant fake colors of AI.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,553
Wed, Jun 04AI isn't stopping people from painting on canvas, or illustrating, or sculpting. Neither did digital photography. I do all of those to varying degrees, and more.
The main problem in modern times is the monetization of art. Asking my opinion, monetizing art has turned it into "content" meaning something to be consumed. That's not what art is.
I'm no longer making any money from my creations. Not that I made a lot of money before. But you know..... now I don't have to follow specific instructions from clients. I can do what I please, without deadlines. And in the future, I'll leave the "content" to what I plan on doing shortly down the road. Which is parametric modeling, making custom parts to be 3D printed. Yes, there's an "art" to it but not everything I make will be solely for my own satisfaction. Although, while I learn to get better at parametric modeling, I'll probably challenge myself with some cool concepts that I could transfer over to hard surface work in Blender. I'm also planning to still design clothing in 3D, and will probably stay within Marvelous for that.
I've also been messing around in AI generative rendering for a year or two, mainly in character design but also clothing design recently. My main beef with it is how the algorithms were trained. Also it takes an insane amount of energy and that will accelerate climate change. But the one bright spot in that is maybe AI deep learning and algorithms may solve the energy consumption problem and possibly reverse the damage the corporatocracy has inflicted.
But, TL;DR is AI image generation has not stopped me from creating, it only took away a small revenue stream. I realize that it's putting a bunch of pros in the industry out of jobs. But let's face it, we're not pros. Pro artists are a miniscule number. And the really good ones, they're going to find another way. Because people who are looking for great art in media, they're gonna pass AI by. AI image generation is the junk food, just like the garbage modern music being consumed by the Zoomers. Very low cost or free, with just the barest dopamine hit that can't ever last.
The main problem in modern times is the monetization of art. Asking my opinion, monetizing art has turned it into "content" meaning something to be consumed. That's not what art is.
I'm no longer making any money from my creations. Not that I made a lot of money before. But you know..... now I don't have to follow specific instructions from clients. I can do what I please, without deadlines. And in the future, I'll leave the "content" to what I plan on doing shortly down the road. Which is parametric modeling, making custom parts to be 3D printed. Yes, there's an "art" to it but not everything I make will be solely for my own satisfaction. Although, while I learn to get better at parametric modeling, I'll probably challenge myself with some cool concepts that I could transfer over to hard surface work in Blender. I'm also planning to still design clothing in 3D, and will probably stay within Marvelous for that.
I've also been messing around in AI generative rendering for a year or two, mainly in character design but also clothing design recently. My main beef with it is how the algorithms were trained. Also it takes an insane amount of energy and that will accelerate climate change. But the one bright spot in that is maybe AI deep learning and algorithms may solve the energy consumption problem and possibly reverse the damage the corporatocracy has inflicted.
But, TL;DR is AI image generation has not stopped me from creating, it only took away a small revenue stream. I realize that it's putting a bunch of pros in the industry out of jobs. But let's face it, we're not pros. Pro artists are a miniscule number. And the really good ones, they're going to find another way. Because people who are looking for great art in media, they're gonna pass AI by. AI image generation is the junk food, just like the garbage modern music being consumed by the Zoomers. Very low cost or free, with just the barest dopamine hit that can't ever last.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Wed, Jun 04quote:
AI isn't stopping people from painting on canvas, or illustrating, or sculpting. Neither did digital photography. I do all of those to varying degrees, and more.
-------------
You're right, there will always be someone painting "old style" and so on.
That's not what I worry about.
What worries me is, that people won't see the big picture.
But that's a whole other story.
AI isn't stopping people from painting on canvas, or illustrating, or sculpting. Neither did digital photography. I do all of those to varying degrees, and more.
-------------
You're right, there will always be someone painting "old style" and so on.
That's not what I worry about.
What worries me is, that people won't see the big picture.
But that's a whole other story.
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Wed, Jun 04But AI is removing customers for 3D products, and those content asset creators are not making any money any more.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Wed, Jun 04Yes I know, that's where the cat is biting it's own tail.
And every piece of AI will take away more and more.
It doesn't matter which AI and for what it's used, it's like Goethe wrote it in The Sorcerer's Apprentice "The spirits that I summoned"
But people really think, they still have the control ...
hear me laughing .... bitter loud.
And every piece of AI will take away more and more.
It doesn't matter which AI and for what it's used, it's like Goethe wrote it in The Sorcerer's Apprentice "The spirits that I summoned"
But people really think, they still have the control ...
hear me laughing .... bitter loud.
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Wed, Jun 04That really is the point. No control. There are billions of dollars chasing the AI now, nothing we say now matters. As if artists ever has a say.
I'm not a fan of RH becoming more permissive towards generative image tools, given the way those models get trained without compensating the original artists, but it's not a change that's going to ruin my day.
REPLY
! REPORT
Couple of pre-points:
- You already outright ban primarily Generative "AI" images
- I suspect multiple galleries may discourage potential users from uploading to a less frequently visited gallery AND/OR discourage viewers from looking at one or the other gallery AND/OR ignore the checkbox to get into the gallery with the most views
- As an example and as I understand it, Renderotica does not display thumbnails of AI generated images
I am not a fan of flipping back and forth between multiple galleries and would be ok with a single gallery with "AI" enhanced image thumbnails blurred (with a little Rosie the robot icon in the corner)
While I believe your stance against Generative "AI" images is a good one, I don't think you should paint yourself into a corner with "AI" enhanced. I suspect that "AI" enhanced backgrounds will become more and more popular with the portrait crowd (e.g bookshelves, paintings on bare walls, clouds, vistas beyond the windows.. but all in the background that was once a void).
- You already outright ban primarily Generative "AI" images
- I suspect multiple galleries may discourage potential users from uploading to a less frequently visited gallery AND/OR discourage viewers from looking at one or the other gallery AND/OR ignore the checkbox to get into the gallery with the most views
- As an example and as I understand it, Renderotica does not display thumbnails of AI generated images
I am not a fan of flipping back and forth between multiple galleries and would be ok with a single gallery with "AI" enhanced image thumbnails blurred (with a little Rosie the robot icon in the corner)
While I believe your stance against Generative "AI" images is a good one, I don't think you should paint yourself into a corner with "AI" enhanced. I suspect that "AI" enhanced backgrounds will become more and more popular with the portrait crowd (e.g bookshelves, paintings on bare walls, clouds, vistas beyond the windows.. but all in the background that was once a void).
REPLY
! REPORT
I remember when valve when took a firm
"NO AI " position any content used in games on the
Steam platform.
Then they walked it back to just making developers disclose the use of AI generated assets
I remember when the owners of the Affinity
suite of graphic design tools pledged to never allow AI into their suite of so called "Adobe alternatives."
Then they promptly sold the company to Canva, an online subscription based graphics company that is steeped in AI.
Many long time time Adobe haters often sung the praises of the Davinci Resolve suite of video editing & finishing tools not only because Davinci's tools were a viable alternative to Adobe Premeire but Adobe implemented generative AI into all of there softwares making them even more "evil."
Except Black magic design has just introduced many generative AI tool into the latest release of Davinci resolve 20
I applaud Renderhub for acknowledging
the cold reality that Valve, Davinci, Canva etc have acknowledged.
That there is NOTHING to be gained from trying to stay quarantined behind some draconian "NO AI anywhere ever" policy, except the vocal praise of a vanishingly small politically and financially powerless minority ( traditional Artists), who have no actual ability to punish your business for allowing AI
nor can they save you from ruin if your competitors (who allow AI )leave you behind.
And finally it is obvious that recent events have laid bare the folly of trying to exclude ALL AI from your site ,as it has already become literally impossible, as I recently demonstrated how easily one could have entered the graffiti contest with an AI generated tag and converted it to editable vector art to show "proof"
that you "created" it in Adobe illustrator or similar design program
So yes Renderhub is wise to Allow some AI content under controlled segregated conditions as best they can.
"NO AI " position any content used in games on the
Steam platform.
Then they walked it back to just making developers disclose the use of AI generated assets
I remember when the owners of the Affinity
suite of graphic design tools pledged to never allow AI into their suite of so called "Adobe alternatives."
Then they promptly sold the company to Canva, an online subscription based graphics company that is steeped in AI.
Many long time time Adobe haters often sung the praises of the Davinci Resolve suite of video editing & finishing tools not only because Davinci's tools were a viable alternative to Adobe Premeire but Adobe implemented generative AI into all of there softwares making them even more "evil."
Except Black magic design has just introduced many generative AI tool into the latest release of Davinci resolve 20
I applaud Renderhub for acknowledging
the cold reality that Valve, Davinci, Canva etc have acknowledged.
That there is NOTHING to be gained from trying to stay quarantined behind some draconian "NO AI anywhere ever" policy, except the vocal praise of a vanishingly small politically and financially powerless minority ( traditional Artists), who have no actual ability to punish your business for allowing AI
nor can they save you from ruin if your competitors (who allow AI )leave you behind.
And finally it is obvious that recent events have laid bare the folly of trying to exclude ALL AI from your site ,as it has already become literally impossible, as I recently demonstrated how easily one could have entered the graffiti contest with an AI generated tag and converted it to editable vector art to show "proof"
that you "created" it in Adobe illustrator or similar design program
So yes Renderhub is wise to Allow some AI content under controlled segregated conditions as best they can.
REPLY
! REPORT
You lied.
I joined RH because of the non-AI policy.
How could I trust you now ?
I'm out !
- John -
I joined RH because of the non-AI policy.
How could I trust you now ?
I'm out !
- John -
REPLY
! REPORT
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,732
Wed, Jun 04But that would be a shame ... although I'm currently considering switching to cgbytes myself (products, maybe even pictures). They do allow NI (separate category) ... but have never (!) promised not to allow NI.
Let's see ...
Let's see ...
Friedland
Karma: 1,514
Wed, Jun 04Thanks for your reply, Pushee-Ri !
That works if you're a vendor - which I'm not.
But I have other options.
I just have a zero tolerance to lies and this was one too many.
All trust is gone.
- John -
That works if you're a vendor - which I'm not.
But I have other options.
I just have a zero tolerance to lies and this was one too many.
All trust is gone.
- John -
Brilliant!
This is great news for those that render their work in AI, now they can openly express themselves more openly, and having a separate section helps with keeping it genre-specific to its community, whereas it could really dilute the traditional 3D renders if it's simply thrown in with traditional genres, much like other sites have done without care for the different communities.
This is great news for those that render their work in AI, now they can openly express themselves more openly, and having a separate section helps with keeping it genre-specific to its community, whereas it could really dilute the traditional 3D renders if it's simply thrown in with traditional genres, much like other sites have done without care for the different communities.
REPLY
! REPORT
NOTE: When I say render their work in AI, that is predicated on the knowledge that one uses their own artwork when rendering in AI, I would also like to add that we should be very picky on which AI tools were used as ethical model training is a thing, and should be encouraged while the unethical is discouraged!
REPLY
! REPORT
If you allow AI, I'd say this is for the best.
I suggested an Enhance section. If it is going to be posted here despite your policy then yes, put it in there and own the punches. Id prefer a swift boot to AI users. And in my opinion, they are not that good of 3d artists, and they wouldn't be missed. However, if I had to share a home with them, this is for the best I suppose...
I likely won't take place in any more competitions. There has been a slight trust break there as of now. One tolerance is as good as the other. Maybe in future. To all those that will participate regardless, good luck to you and try your best as an authentic 3d artist and I will root for you.
I will never use AI in my art or on my store page. And I'm proud of that. Team Gimp all day. I use 3d software as intended and post work will remain in gimp. I salute my peers that feel the same and do the same with their own genuine editing software and methods. 07 Cheers to you, my friends!
I will not knock or make fun of any artist that uses AI. However, I will not respond to you aside from redirection to another user more suitable for you once I know better. I cannot walk with you. Be well in your life. I will do the same.
Renderhub is just Renderhub, I like it, but it is its users that I like. Their artwork entertains me. Their knowledge has helped and encouraged me. Their support and kind words bring me smiles. I Like them and cherish each one and try my best to maintain a support system for them. I encourage all to try and remember this and to do the same if I encourage anything on here. Just be a decent person
I suggested an Enhance section. If it is going to be posted here despite your policy then yes, put it in there and own the punches. Id prefer a swift boot to AI users. And in my opinion, they are not that good of 3d artists, and they wouldn't be missed. However, if I had to share a home with them, this is for the best I suppose...
I likely won't take place in any more competitions. There has been a slight trust break there as of now. One tolerance is as good as the other. Maybe in future. To all those that will participate regardless, good luck to you and try your best as an authentic 3d artist and I will root for you.
I will never use AI in my art or on my store page. And I'm proud of that. Team Gimp all day. I use 3d software as intended and post work will remain in gimp. I salute my peers that feel the same and do the same with their own genuine editing software and methods. 07 Cheers to you, my friends!
I will not knock or make fun of any artist that uses AI. However, I will not respond to you aside from redirection to another user more suitable for you once I know better. I cannot walk with you. Be well in your life. I will do the same.
Renderhub is just Renderhub, I like it, but it is its users that I like. Their artwork entertains me. Their knowledge has helped and encouraged me. Their support and kind words bring me smiles. I Like them and cherish each one and try my best to maintain a support system for them. I encourage all to try and remember this and to do the same if I encourage anything on here. Just be a decent person
REPLY
! REPORT
Seems like a cave, but we'll have to see how this turns out.
REPLY
! REPORT
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Wed, Jun 04I don't wanna be rude, but trying to keep up can cost a lot.
Giving up for what one stands, become the same as the masses, going under in this masses, cause nothing will highlight ones own personality.
Or take a stand and really stand up against what everyone is doing.
As a child I learned one thing: If every lemming will jump, I won't. I go my way and not the way of the masses.
On the long run, all I can see for here is the overtake by AI, nothing special anymore, nothing, that will cause people to come here. Like I did. A place without AI, so wonderful.
And then this, disappointing!
The world will change no matter what.
But shining like a bright and wonderful light against some machines, that's worth a lot!
Giving up for what one stands, become the same as the masses, going under in this masses, cause nothing will highlight ones own personality.
Or take a stand and really stand up against what everyone is doing.
As a child I learned one thing: If every lemming will jump, I won't. I go my way and not the way of the masses.
On the long run, all I can see for here is the overtake by AI, nothing special anymore, nothing, that will cause people to come here. Like I did. A place without AI, so wonderful.
And then this, disappointing!
The world will change no matter what.
But shining like a bright and wonderful light against some machines, that's worth a lot!
MKDAWUSS
Karma: 50,235
Wed, Jun 04From "No AI. Period. End of. Full Stop." to "Here's the AI-enhanced subgallery" can feel like a bit of a cave from certain perspectives. I myself neutral on AI - certain aspects of it I think are just passing trends that just need to be waited out - but it wasn't all that long ago when there were "NO AI!" contests here.
mrtaured
Karma: 16,573
Thu, Jun 05Smells like caving to me. And keeping up with the times has costed people everything. I agree with mkdawuss. We shall see. You've been warned. You've been yelled at. You've been trusted. Those days are over. Good luck. I think you're gonna need it.
"except the vocal praise of a vanishingly small politically and financially powerless minority ( traditional Artists), who have no actual ability to punish your business for allowing AI
nor can they save you from ruin if your competitors (who allow AI )leave you behind."
no idea what warps a person to make them view other people like this, it needs to be studied.
nor can they save you from ruin if your competitors (who allow AI )leave you behind."
no idea what warps a person to make them view other people like this, it needs to be studied.
REPLY
! REPORT
mrtaured
Karma: 16,573
Thu, Jun 05There's damage that can be done. I hope the change course before it happens.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,553
Thu, Jun 05"except the vocal praise of a vanishingly small politically and financially powerless minority ( traditional Artists), who have no actual ability to punish your business for allowing AI nor can they save you from ruin if your competitors (who allow AI )leave you behind."
I'll translate that in one word:
Dehumanization.
I'll translate that in one word:
Dehumanization.
mrtaured
Karma: 16,573
Thu, Jun 05I know.... Talk about brave. If you think your site is safe just because you keep repeating report this and that. Pffff
FAFO
FAFO
Personally, I don't think that's a good idea in the long term.
I'll start with my parade example:
Show the masses
a) a rude but touching sketch by Egon Schiele
b) a glossy centerfold from Hustler magazine
The masses will always (!) choose Hustler (with just a few exceptions)
This means that the focus will gradually shift from the gallery section " Handwork " to the section " The machine did it "
Now the point: it is known that there is a clear correlation between gallery promos and purchases at Renderhub. There is hardly any other platform where this is as clear as here.
So if there were to be a new gallery section in which machine-created (or enhanced) images were to be shown and the masses were to pounce on them, what would happen to the aforementioned correlation? In my very personal opinion, no one would win, but everyone would lose ... including Renderhub with its
" No AI " reputation.
I'll start with my parade example:
Show the masses
a) a rude but touching sketch by Egon Schiele
b) a glossy centerfold from Hustler magazine
The masses will always (!) choose Hustler (with just a few exceptions)
This means that the focus will gradually shift from the gallery section " Handwork " to the section " The machine did it "
Now the point: it is known that there is a clear correlation between gallery promos and purchases at Renderhub. There is hardly any other platform where this is as clear as here.
So if there were to be a new gallery section in which machine-created (or enhanced) images were to be shown and the masses were to pounce on them, what would happen to the aforementioned correlation? In my very personal opinion, no one would win, but everyone would lose ... including Renderhub with its
" No AI " reputation.
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Excessive
Karma: 7,883
Wed, Jun 04but you have a really straightforward example of what happens tjat you can compare to actually
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#gallery=aifull&sort=trending&page=1
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#gallery=traditional&sort=trending&page=1
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#gallery=aifull&sort=trending&page=1
https://www.daz3d.com/gallery/#gallery=traditional&sort=trending&page=1
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Wed, Jun 04Re PUshee-Ri comment, and only because I check the Renderosity gallery every day, and ignore the AI generated drivel on there on a daily basis. It has been that way for a long time. Good 3D rendered art still rises. The "Handwork" is what some people still appreciate. Others might be attracted to new and shiny, but AI enhanced is actually a negative for the people that buy content to use.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,732
Wed, Jun 04@Excessive:
Beg pardon?
@Tenserknot:
Yep - the trending hashtag at Rendo is (or was) #No_AI
Beg pardon?
@Tenserknot:
Yep - the trending hashtag at Rendo is (or was) #No_AI
Excessive
Karma: 7,883
Wed, Jun 04I mean Daz's gallery has been using a similar split for a long while now ("traditional" vs "AI generated/enhanced") and the post rate & engagement numbers are pretty obviously terrible for the AI stuff. and that's with Daz's fanatical site regulars
Quote:no idea what warps a person to make them view other people like this, it needs to be studied.
Uhhh right, its called understanding the objective reality of how "soft power" works in relation to the way commercial businesses respond to existing and potential paying customers.
Educate yourself by "studying " this:
https://beforesandafters.com/2020/02/22/this-is-what-sonic-fans-seem-to-really-want-a-qa-with-sonic-director-jeff-fowler/
This is an example of how a multi-billion dollar corporation( Sony pictures) was forced to redesign a beloved Character by a fan base that used its soft power to threaten them with financial harm of not buying tickets had they not complied.
Valve, Davinci, Canva etc have made the calculous that anti AI "traditional artists" ,as a demographic ,lacks any means to truly punish them for allowing AI generated tools and content in their eco systems.
And (spoiler alert ) posting angry screeds on Bluesky, Reddit twitterX or calling me a "warped person" in this forum may make you feel better but it does not change anything.
Renderhub has made a similar calculous.
that is the reality of it.
Welcome to capitalism.
Uhhh right, its called understanding the objective reality of how "soft power" works in relation to the way commercial businesses respond to existing and potential paying customers.
Educate yourself by "studying " this:
https://beforesandafters.com/2020/02/22/this-is-what-sonic-fans-seem-to-really-want-a-qa-with-sonic-director-jeff-fowler/
This is an example of how a multi-billion dollar corporation( Sony pictures) was forced to redesign a beloved Character by a fan base that used its soft power to threaten them with financial harm of not buying tickets had they not complied.
Valve, Davinci, Canva etc have made the calculous that anti AI "traditional artists" ,as a demographic ,lacks any means to truly punish them for allowing AI generated tools and content in their eco systems.
And (spoiler alert ) posting angry screeds on Bluesky, Reddit twitterX or calling me a "warped person" in this forum may make you feel better but it does not change anything.
Renderhub has made a similar calculous.
that is the reality of it.
Welcome to capitalism.
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What the feck is he going on about now? Any idea's......
Take a day off man ffs . Or better still go make something of your own. Learn a 3d program wouldn't that be novel! Even put some renders in your empty gallery.
Take a day off man ffs . Or better still go make something of your own. Learn a 3d program wouldn't that be novel! Even put some renders in your empty gallery.
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Leave AI out of Render Hub and open a sister portal called AI Hub.
I just hate it when people padding their shoulders and calling themselfes "artists2, just because they fed some _prompts_ to anAI engine.
I just hate it when people padding their shoulders and calling themselfes "artists2, just because they fed some _prompts_ to anAI engine.
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I already hate it, more -renders- popping up thats clearly fully AI (im pretty sure) and not made with a 3d software backing.
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/63010/apocalyptic-city-ii
It will enter the main Marketplace soon enough, who's excited for that!
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/63010/apocalyptic-city-ii
It will enter the main Marketplace soon enough, who's excited for that!
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Quote:Or better still go make something of your own. Learn a 3d program wouldn't that be novel!
You mean like Blender or Maxon C4D?
https://www.blendernation.com/2020/04/29/behind-the-scenes-sci-fi-armor/
LOL Where is your contest entry?
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/69235/fashion-2050
You mean like Blender or Maxon C4D?
https://www.blendernation.com/2020/04/29/behind-the-scenes-sci-fi-armor/
LOL Where is your contest entry?
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/69235/fashion-2050
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Quote:I just hate it when people padding their shoulders and calling themselfes "artists2, just because they fed some _prompts_ to anAI engine.
It is a matter of perspective.
To this day ,many people in the Autodesk Maya and Blender communities
can be heard to say:
"I just hate when Daz users call themselves 3D artists when all they do is load prefabricated mass produced, Daz store content they did not model, UV map, texture or rig.
Most times even loading canned figure poses and lighting sets.
At best they can be described as scene assembly technicians"
It is a matter of perspective.
To this day ,many people in the Autodesk Maya and Blender communities
can be heard to say:
"I just hate when Daz users call themselves 3D artists when all they do is load prefabricated mass produced, Daz store content they did not model, UV map, texture or rig.
Most times even loading canned figure poses and lighting sets.
At best they can be described as scene assembly technicians"
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Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Wed, Jun 04quote:
"It is a matter of perspective."
No it's not.
ask a photographer. they didn't create their motives. they found them and they arranged their motives.
Musicians usually don't invent their music from scratch. In western culture it is just a recombination of the same 12 semi tones at different octaves.
It makes a huge difference, if a human brain with personal experience, biography, emotions and a subconcious urge to create something new out of pre existing sources or if an engine build it from some kind of algorithm.
Even assuming for amoment the AI-engine actually WAS creative, it still wouldn't be YOUR art. It would be the engine's art.
You would just have ordered the art.
Padding your shoulder for AI-images is like going to McDonalds ordering a big Mac and pretending to have created the best hamburger from scratch.
NO!
Generative AI is stealing from data bases.
Generative AI is like asking someone else to do the job for you.
There is no valid point to call generative AI art.
"It is a matter of perspective."
No it's not.
ask a photographer. they didn't create their motives. they found them and they arranged their motives.
Musicians usually don't invent their music from scratch. In western culture it is just a recombination of the same 12 semi tones at different octaves.
It makes a huge difference, if a human brain with personal experience, biography, emotions and a subconcious urge to create something new out of pre existing sources or if an engine build it from some kind of algorithm.
Even assuming for amoment the AI-engine actually WAS creative, it still wouldn't be YOUR art. It would be the engine's art.
You would just have ordered the art.
Padding your shoulder for AI-images is like going to McDonalds ordering a big Mac and pretending to have created the best hamburger from scratch.
NO!
Generative AI is stealing from data bases.
Generative AI is like asking someone else to do the job for you.
There is no valid point to call generative AI art.
Ion
Karma: 5,194
Wed, Jun 04I couldn't agree more...
https://www.renderhub.com/blog/chatgpt-answers-the-question-whether-generative-ai-works-are-art
https://www.renderhub.com/blog/chatgpt-answers-the-question-whether-generative-ai-works-are-art
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,732
Wed, Jun 04Dear Anabran,
unfortunately I have to disagree with you, because your argument as to why NI should be art is on the same level as the statement of the NI apologist blogger that - if a can of tomato soup is art - NI should also be regarded as art. Find the error in the thinking
unfortunately I have to disagree with you, because your argument as to why NI should be art is on the same level as the statement of the NI apologist blogger that - if a can of tomato soup is art - NI should also be regarded as art. Find the error in the thinking
It amazes me and it scares me at the same time, that almost no one will see the real risk behind all that.
Who needs content creators in the near future?
Who needs any 3d programs in the near future?
Who will need anything at all?
You really don't see it, don't you?
Jumping on the AI train, in hope to get a piece of the cake.
Oh my, you should hear me laughing very loud.
Every store opening to AI is destroying themselves.
But yeah, AI is the future, AI will make our lives so easy, AI will take our jobs and so on
Will AI feed you?
*roflmao* you will owe nothing and be happy about it
is coming closer by the second.
Enjoy AI
This page can't go back, too many people have outed themselves by now.
Who needs content creators in the near future?
Who needs any 3d programs in the near future?
Who will need anything at all?
You really don't see it, don't you?
Jumping on the AI train, in hope to get a piece of the cake.
Oh my, you should hear me laughing very loud.
Every store opening to AI is destroying themselves.
But yeah, AI is the future, AI will make our lives so easy, AI will take our jobs and so on
Will AI feed you?
*roflmao* you will owe nothing and be happy about it
is coming closer by the second.
Enjoy AI
This page can't go back, too many people have outed themselves by now.
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Pinspotter
Karma: 5,553
Wed, Jun 04RenderHub sees the writing on the wall. The 3D content store repository can't be sustained. People have said to me for over a decade, that I am "obsolete". Now the entirety of the RenderHub consumer base is technically obsolete.
Welcome to my world.
Welcome to my world.
MKDAWUSS
Karma: 50,235
Wed, Jun 04The world is changing, and sometimes it ain't for the better, and it leaves people behind.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 5,150
Thu, Jun 26You said it perfectly. Even engineering jobs, like mine in software development, are being phased out and will soon be mostly obsolete. I was just at HITEC, and nearly every project there was AI-driven, with the clear goal of eliminating people’s jobs, including ours.
I can’t help but recall the “Just learn to code, brahmeme. How laughably that’s aged. We engineers built this reality ourselves, so we have no right to complain about the consequences. But I'm not jumping into my own demise, whatever the cost, I'll keep doing things my own way.
I can’t help but recall the “Just learn to code, brahmeme. How laughably that’s aged. We engineers built this reality ourselves, so we have no right to complain about the consequences. But I'm not jumping into my own demise, whatever the cost, I'll keep doing things my own way.
"a vanishingly small politically and financially powerless minority ( traditional Artists), who have no actual ability to punish your business for allowing AI"
log off dude
log off dude
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Only one comment from me regarding this latest addition:
FAFO
You've been warned. And I called it a while ago. Best of luck. You'll need all you can get at this point.
FAFO
You've been warned. And I called it a while ago. Best of luck. You'll need all you can get at this point.
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Quote:I already hate it, more -renders- popping up thats clearly fully AI (im pretty sure) and not made with a 3d software backing.
It greatly depends on the AI engine being used
every image in my 92 page Graphic novel , including the "pencil art " was originally a Blender viewport capture of imported Daz content.
It greatly depends on the AI engine being used
every image in my 92 page Graphic novel , including the "pencil art " was originally a Blender viewport capture of imported Daz content.
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Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Wed, Jun 04Yeah, looks great, but as you can see, Ai is making sh*t up here.
Your own Blender character has no facial likeness to the AI result.
Does that mean your character design doesn't matter in the first place?
Don't you want the AI character to look exactly as YOU designed it in Blender?
Nice abs in the AI modell. Where are they in your character design?
I mean that cell shading style of the AI looks absolutly cool, but there is no hint, that this has been done by your choice.
Great work, AI.
Your own Blender character has no facial likeness to the AI result.
Does that mean your character design doesn't matter in the first place?
Don't you want the AI character to look exactly as YOU designed it in Blender?
Nice abs in the AI modell. Where are they in your character design?
I mean that cell shading style of the AI looks absolutly cool, but there is no hint, that this has been done by your choice.
Great work, AI.
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Wed, Jun 04As long as it is labelled as an AI enhancement, the final audience can choose if they like the end results. Both those AI styles could work as Saturday morning TV.
"Quote:I just hate it when people padding their shoulders and calling themselfes "artists2, just because they fed some _prompts_ to anAI engine.
It is a matter of perspective.
To this day ,many people in the Autodesk Maya and Blender communities
can be heard to say:
"I just hate when Daz users call themselves 3D artists when all they do is load prefabricated mass produced, Daz store content they did not model, UV map, texture or rig.
Most times even loading canned figure poses and lighting sets.
At best they can be described as scene assembly technicians""
I beg to differ!! I work damn hard at creating my art. I've spent years learning and I spend hours perfecting the lighting, which even if it is out of the box since I'm still getting used to Daz, I never use as is. I use my own poses, more and more now. I tweak everything and leave nothing "out of the box" in my renders. I learned how to use Vue, which I know you say is a crap program, or seem to recall your "two cents" being something to that effect. I have not seen anything form you that has made me go oooh...not a single thing.
You can put your tude and your arrogance where the sun doesn't shine!! Your long winded opinions mean squat to pretty much everyone on this site.
It is a matter of perspective.
To this day ,many people in the Autodesk Maya and Blender communities
can be heard to say:
"I just hate when Daz users call themselves 3D artists when all they do is load prefabricated mass produced, Daz store content they did not model, UV map, texture or rig.
Most times even loading canned figure poses and lighting sets.
At best they can be described as scene assembly technicians""
I beg to differ!! I work damn hard at creating my art. I've spent years learning and I spend hours perfecting the lighting, which even if it is out of the box since I'm still getting used to Daz, I never use as is. I use my own poses, more and more now. I tweak everything and leave nothing "out of the box" in my renders. I learned how to use Vue, which I know you say is a crap program, or seem to recall your "two cents" being something to that effect. I have not seen anything form you that has made me go oooh...not a single thing.
You can put your tude and your arrogance where the sun doesn't shine!! Your long winded opinions mean squat to pretty much everyone on this site.
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Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Wed, Jun 04"scene assembly technicians" = every movie Director making a living in Hollywood.
Anabran
Karma: 2,606
Wed, Jun 04And many of those Directors ,like James cameron, are eager to embrace the new AI tech as filmmaking tool.
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Wed, Jun 04Just because James Cameron says so, I don't have to agree.
AI is promissing to save production costs.
AI is promissing to save production costs.
Why We Shouldnt Overestimate the Fear of AI Humans Are Still the True Creators
Lately, many people are afraid of Artificial Intelligence (AI). They worry that machines will soon take over our jobs or even replace our creativity. These fears are understandable technology is advancing fast and changing many parts of our lives.
But we shouldnt forget: AI is a tool, not a replacement for humans. Creativity comes from our experiences, emotions, and unique way of thinking. Machines can recognize patterns, process data, and even generate text or images but truly new and original ideas come from our minds.
AI can support and inspire us, making many tasks easier, but the power to create and the ability to judge creatively remain human. Our skill to connect ideas, express feelings, and create meaning is something no machine can simply copy.
Instead of fearing AI, we should see working with it as an opportunity to unlock even more of our creativity. The future belongs to those who use technology wisely but never lose sight of the unique value of human creativity.
Enrico
Lately, many people are afraid of Artificial Intelligence (AI). They worry that machines will soon take over our jobs or even replace our creativity. These fears are understandable technology is advancing fast and changing many parts of our lives.
But we shouldnt forget: AI is a tool, not a replacement for humans. Creativity comes from our experiences, emotions, and unique way of thinking. Machines can recognize patterns, process data, and even generate text or images but truly new and original ideas come from our minds.
AI can support and inspire us, making many tasks easier, but the power to create and the ability to judge creatively remain human. Our skill to connect ideas, express feelings, and create meaning is something no machine can simply copy.
Instead of fearing AI, we should see working with it as an opportunity to unlock even more of our creativity. The future belongs to those who use technology wisely but never lose sight of the unique value of human creativity.
Enrico
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Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Wed, Jun 04Quote:
"Lately, many people are afraid of Artificial Intelligence (AI). "
i'm not afraid, I'm p*ssed about that.
Quote:
"AI is a tool, not a replacement for humans."
Can be a tool, the galleries are full of Generative AI which is different.
Quote:
"AI can support and inspire us,"
True, be sure, that if I like some AI stuff, I will use it as an ispiration and claim it as mine, and nobody can do anything about it.
Quote:
"Instead of fearing AI, we should see working with it as an opportunity to unlock even more of our creativity. "
that is not, what generative AI is doing. It does NOT unlock your creativity.
It makes sh*t up for you, instead of you, by searching databases and therefore stealing other artists artwork for the process.
"Lately, many people are afraid of Artificial Intelligence (AI). "
i'm not afraid, I'm p*ssed about that.
Quote:
"AI is a tool, not a replacement for humans."
Can be a tool, the galleries are full of Generative AI which is different.
Quote:
"AI can support and inspire us,"
True, be sure, that if I like some AI stuff, I will use it as an ispiration and claim it as mine, and nobody can do anything about it.
Quote:
"Instead of fearing AI, we should see working with it as an opportunity to unlock even more of our creativity. "
that is not, what generative AI is doing. It does NOT unlock your creativity.
It makes sh*t up for you, instead of you, by searching databases and therefore stealing other artists artwork for the process.
Quote: Musicians usually don't invent their music from scratch.
Try comparing Mozart to some kid who
who " composes" music from purchased sound libraries and brace for the laughter.
This is what the people in the Maya/blender communities think of Daz studio users
(who are not the actual talented PA's of course)
Feel free to go over to their forums and argue about your "creativity" in loading outfits and dial turning
I am just reporting on their "perspective"
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Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Wed, Jun 04Quote:
"This is what the people in the Maya/blender communities think of Daz studio users"
It is irrelevant what Maya users about DAZ users say, for they are wrong.
I don't need cut down a tree, and doing three weeks of DIY work to build a chair of it, just to make a nice photo of a chair.
It is in how I present that content and what I do with it.
Helmut Newton didn't "frankenstein" his female photo models either.
Comparing AI with the use of pre-existing 3d content is like compairing apples and prunes.
AI is taking the creative process, what to do with content from you.
All the respect to those, who create their own content, but it matters, WHAT you do with that content.
It is still not art, if your from scratch 3d content looks top notch, but you have no idea, how to present it in a scene.
Again:
Generative AI is making sh*t up for you, base on a few lines of a prompt and the outcome is pretty randome.
You're just reduced to the one to pick, what you like.
This makes you at best an order of "art" and a customer of art, but not an artist.
"This is what the people in the Maya/blender communities think of Daz studio users"
It is irrelevant what Maya users about DAZ users say, for they are wrong.
I don't need cut down a tree, and doing three weeks of DIY work to build a chair of it, just to make a nice photo of a chair.
It is in how I present that content and what I do with it.
Helmut Newton didn't "frankenstein" his female photo models either.
Comparing AI with the use of pre-existing 3d content is like compairing apples and prunes.
AI is taking the creative process, what to do with content from you.
All the respect to those, who create their own content, but it matters, WHAT you do with that content.
It is still not art, if your from scratch 3d content looks top notch, but you have no idea, how to present it in a scene.
Again:
Generative AI is making sh*t up for you, base on a few lines of a prompt and the outcome is pretty randome.
You're just reduced to the one to pick, what you like.
This makes you at best an order of "art" and a customer of art, but not an artist.
Quote:Your own Blender character has no facial likeness to the AI result.
Does that mean your character design doesn't matter in the first place?
Again it depends on the AI engine
and what you are willing to pay
I used one that focuses on a vast number of different styles.
Some engines are purpose are built for consistency making them a better choice for sequential comic and graphic novel art
Does that mean your character design doesn't matter in the first place?
Again it depends on the AI engine
and what you are willing to pay
I used one that focuses on a vast number of different styles.
Some engines are purpose are built for consistency making them a better choice for sequential comic and graphic novel art
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Quote:It is irrelevant what Maya users about DAZ users say, for they are wrong.
And AI content creators care nothing about what Daz prefab content assembly techs say about generative AI.
so everyone lives in their own "perspective"
and that's OK.. relax bro.
And AI content creators care nothing about what Daz prefab content assembly techs say about generative AI.
so everyone lives in their own "perspective"
and that's OK.. relax bro.
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Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Wed, Jun 04Except it diminishes, what is called art.
It destroyes buisnisses and culture.
It doesn't matter, if I like somebody's art. I don't have to.
what is important is, that who-ever artist it is put his mind into his work.
That is lacking in AI work.
As I said, their perspective is wrong.
They are NOT the creator of their content.
And sorry, there is nothing to be relaxed about.
It destroyes buisnisses and culture.
It doesn't matter, if I like somebody's art. I don't have to.
what is important is, that who-ever artist it is put his mind into his work.
That is lacking in AI work.
As I said, their perspective is wrong.
They are NOT the creator of their content.
And sorry, there is nothing to be relaxed about.
Just a question admin, are you really interested in our opinion? If you were really interested, you should have made this post before implementing it, our thoughts as on other occasions are superfluous, this post only serves to revive interest in the forum..
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Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Wed, Jun 04@Joker
our opinion isn't interesting at all, otherwise the gallery wouldn't be there.
Or ... what I doubt ... it was a genius chess move to get all the people using AI coming out of the dark, outing themselves.
It doesn't matter, as much as we (who don't like AI) don't matter.
our opinion isn't interesting at all, otherwise the gallery wouldn't be there.
Or ... what I doubt ... it was a genius chess move to get all the people using AI coming out of the dark, outing themselves.
It doesn't matter, as much as we (who don't like AI) don't matter.
the joker of spades
Karma: 23,067
Wed, Jun 04It's not a question of who uses it or not, at least for me it's obvious if it has been used or not, simply don't ask for an opinion if you have already decided..they have advertised dozens of works in fautured, implementing them in a new gallery is a way to hide certain errors and not lose works and artists...but probably they will lose many others...at this point better DA, here I post for free, I get some earnings
Good that it is already active. Just checked out the Enhanced Gallery.
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/ai-enhanced
And its shows exactly some of the art I suspected were AI enhanced. I might peruse that gallery on occassion, but intend to focus more on the real 3D efforts.
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/ai-enhanced
And its shows exactly some of the art I suspected were AI enhanced. I might peruse that gallery on occassion, but intend to focus more on the real 3D efforts.
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Just FYI ,for those interested, Flip Normals has Daz content
I sell over there as well
DAZ CONTENT MARKET
And their anti AI policy
NO AI ALLOWED FOR THE MOST PART
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The issue we face is that AI is evolving, and being used more frequently every day. Even in our own community there are cases where people are using AI in creative new ways. So how do we preserve creativity and protect artists without blindly turning our backs on a rapidly growing and increasingly prevalent technology?
A core value at RenderHub is that we are a diverse and inclusive place where everyone can feel free to express their creativity however they choose. So, if someone uses AI as part of their creative process, wouldn't excluding them go against this core value?
The issue we were facing is that the number of posts coming into the gallery where we suspected (and in some cases knew) AI had been used was increasing. As the technology advances, identifying these posts will become more and more difficult. So, it felt like the right time to have a place where these posts could exist, and where anyone interested in viewing them could go. This keeps our main 3D gallery appropriately free of AI, while providing a home for our AI-inclined users.
- This was done to address what was happening and to evolve with the technology, not to increase profits in any way.
- AI-Enhanced means you must use your original 3D work. No posts of images purely generated by prompting some AI engine.
- AI generated items are still not allowed for sale anywhere in the market place.
We will always protect artists and human creativity, but we can't ignore advancements in technology as they come.
I think we are figuring this all out together, this is why these conversations are so important.
A core value at RenderHub is that we are a diverse and inclusive place where everyone can feel free to express their creativity however they choose. So, if someone uses AI as part of their creative process, wouldn't excluding them go against this core value?
The issue we were facing is that the number of posts coming into the gallery where we suspected (and in some cases knew) AI had been used was increasing. As the technology advances, identifying these posts will become more and more difficult. So, it felt like the right time to have a place where these posts could exist, and where anyone interested in viewing them could go. This keeps our main 3D gallery appropriately free of AI, while providing a home for our AI-inclined users.
- This was done to address what was happening and to evolve with the technology, not to increase profits in any way.
- AI-Enhanced means you must use your original 3D work. No posts of images purely generated by prompting some AI engine.
- AI generated items are still not allowed for sale anywhere in the market place.
We will always protect artists and human creativity, but we can't ignore advancements in technology as they come.
I think we are figuring this all out together, this is why these conversations are so important.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,732
Wed, Jun 04Sorry, but I don't understand: you talk about human creativity .... and at the same time support machine-created work. Even " NI Enhanced " ultimately means nothing more than: the machine did it.
Sad
Sad
RenderHub
Admin: 35,580
Wed, Jun 04That depends on what the AI was used for.
There is definitely going to be some grey area here that will have to be parsed out.
There is definitely going to be some grey area here that will have to be parsed out.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Wed, Jun 04You know, that this grey area is a huge open barn door, right?
quote: - AI generated items are still not allowed for sale anywhere in the market place.
How will you know? Don't wanna bet, but am sure, there are already AI generated things in the store.
No one can tell for sure, except the one, who loaded an item up.
quote: - AI generated items are still not allowed for sale anywhere in the market place.
How will you know? Don't wanna bet, but am sure, there are already AI generated things in the store.
No one can tell for sure, except the one, who loaded an item up.
mrtaured
Karma: 16,573
Wed, Jun 04I'm already seeing ultrarealistic photos of children and I don't think that should be allowed. The ai enhanced category needs to have a solid no children allowed policy. Are you based in the states?
mrtaured
Karma: 16,573
Wed, Jun 04This could get out of your control fast my fear is that I'm investing in your site and I don't want that to be all for nothing if you end up in some trouble.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Wed, Jun 04I second this, the amount of children is scary, they shouldn't be there, for sure not in poses I will never see a child.
But not only the pictures of children itself, some of the comments makes my hair stand up.
I've made render with children too, but those are really harmless, and clear to see, that those are children in daily scenes and not styled up as if posing for a catalog to be on sale.
But not only the pictures of children itself, some of the comments makes my hair stand up.
I've made render with children too, but those are really harmless, and clear to see, that those are children in daily scenes and not styled up as if posing for a catalog to be on sale.
mrtaured
Karma: 16,573
Wed, Jun 04They better watch it. No one is obligated to report user to renderhub. You can report both directly user and site to the authorities. Especially if you are based in America. Even overseas we can report to the authorities there. I think render needs to have an employee meeting and really tally up what could be the result of all this. You could get reported to the authorities as a site or a user. No one has to report to renderhub. Keep that in mind. There are laws against ai and child misuse. Better hope you moderate it before it moderates you. That's all I'm saying. Better not see that shit anymore. Period.
mrtaured
Karma: 16,573
Wed, Jun 04I have and will, always to renderhub, I'm invested and feel obligated to report abuse. I want you guys to understand all may not feel that way and go elsewhere with a mission to destroy this place. Don't let it happen! I wish you the best and will root for your success! Keep this in mind always. Crush those that push the boundaries. Everybody got a discord, if they wanna post bad renders with children they need to do it privately. Not on our time collectively. Don't count on users because touchy people may go another direction. It's all just talk for you to think. Be well and good luck my friends! It's getting real so stay vigilant.
mrtaured
Karma: 16,573
Wed, Jun 04I also recommend an acceptance waiting period on these renders. Ai is a powerful tool. You might wanna look over each one or use the ai itself to do so. That's what some do. It's not you that I'm worried about. It's the people on both sides. One loser pisses off a saint and we all loose.
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Thu, Jun 05AI is a powerful tool.
Here is where AI actually makes sense.
Faster and more accurate calculations of light rays.
Shader and texture details.
Level of details in renderings.
Adding micro movements to body and facial animations.
Calculating realistic muscle and fat tissue under skin for posing and animations.
Could be a rigging helper, that learnt by machiene learning, basic anatomy sets for quadruped and biped mamals.
This is, where AI is actually useful and requested, Not as an "Make Art Button".
Here is where AI actually makes sense.
Faster and more accurate calculations of light rays.
Shader and texture details.
Level of details in renderings.
Adding micro movements to body and facial animations.
Calculating realistic muscle and fat tissue under skin for posing and animations.
Could be a rigging helper, that learnt by machiene learning, basic anatomy sets for quadruped and biped mamals.
This is, where AI is actually useful and requested, Not as an "Make Art Button".
mrtaured
Karma: 16,573
Thu, Jun 05I get all that, that's why I suggested a category. You'll see what I mean eventually. Every platform that has CAVED suffers. This site seems to rely on user reports over legit moderation. Their asking for it when a knuckle posts something and someone sends it in to someone interested. Good luck. Hope it doesn't happen but I warned you all. I'm done replying to this. Best wishes to all. O7
mrtaured
Karma: 16,573
Thu, Jun 05Knucklehead*
I root for success. But I'm very concerned. No AI was cool. Shame skill is a burden.
I root for success. But I'm very concerned. No AI was cool. Shame skill is a burden.
Pinspotter
Karma: 5,553
Thu, Jun 05This is the biggest 3D art heel turn I have read since DAZ announced the implementation of DRM in its content library.
The wizard of Oz come's to mind when thinking about Ai.. It's only a language model folks, Your all under the illusion of the Eliza Effect. A very convincing language model used since the 1950's. That's what it's all based on. An illusion.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,732
Wed, Jun 04Unfortunately I can't write here what the NI stuff reminds me of, otherwise my post would be deleted ... but here's at least a hint: it's about the paper used to wrap presents and the stuff that an unhousebroken Fido likes to leave in corners.
At least, thanks to the new NI section, I was able to revoke the Likes awarded to all those who fooled me (I really thought it was about excellent, handcrafted exposure work that I gave a Like).
My conclusion: if you can't do it without the machine - don't do it!
Have a nice evening
At least, thanks to the new NI section, I was able to revoke the Likes awarded to all those who fooled me (I really thought it was about excellent, handcrafted exposure work that I gave a Like).
My conclusion: if you can't do it without the machine - don't do it!
Have a nice evening
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Wed, Jun 04You know what, I followed this example and it was kinda fun 
Told my likes, that this section is no place for them to be and took them with back home. Sure I'll find better places for them
Told my likes, that this section is no place for them to be and took them with back home. Sure I'll find better places for them
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Wed, Jun 04I have also been remove likes for the last week or so.
I was impressed, until I realized that the machine learning model won't appreciate the LIKES either way.
I was impressed, until I realized that the machine learning model won't appreciate the LIKES either way.
The fact of the matter is that there are a shit ton of AI users that try to sneak their AI renders in with traditional 3d Render artists, and as a result, it fools a lot of the masses, yet not 3D render artists, and as a result they feel as though their work is being undermined…
So by dedicating a gallery for AI renderers you can direct them away from traditional 3D renderers so for those that despise AI can enjoy the galleries without seeing them, while the ones that love AI can, and it makes moderation a lot easier when you have separate galleries.
Plus, those AI artists that want to post to the general gallery can now have their own galleries and can be open about posting their work rather than hiding behind false “3D generated imagesin order to sneak their work in with the rest of the traditional artists…
That's my theory any way, let's see how it works in practice!
So by dedicating a gallery for AI renderers you can direct them away from traditional 3D renderers so for those that despise AI can enjoy the galleries without seeing them, while the ones that love AI can, and it makes moderation a lot easier when you have separate galleries.
Plus, those AI artists that want to post to the general gallery can now have their own galleries and can be open about posting their work rather than hiding behind false “3D generated imagesin order to sneak their work in with the rest of the traditional artists…
That's my theory any way, let's see how it works in practice!
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Considering most of my gallery got converted to 8 bit for some reason and I will have to re upload everything.. I don't think I will bother now.
" AI generated items are still not allowed for sale anywhere in the market place." for how long?
No Renderhub you knew this was coming and it feels underhanded to suddenly launch a new pro ai gallery. You just literally pulled the rug from under your own community so we no longer trust you.
Time to find or make an alternative site .
" AI generated items are still not allowed for sale anywhere in the market place." for how long?
No Renderhub you knew this was coming and it feels underhanded to suddenly launch a new pro ai gallery. You just literally pulled the rug from under your own community so we no longer trust you.
Time to find or make an alternative site .
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ai is not evolving, please don't anthropomorphize the language model
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bonj
Karma: 12,812
Wed, Jun 04"A core value at RenderHub is that we are a diverse and inclusive place where everyone can feel free to express their creativity however they choose. So, if someone uses AI as part of their creative process, wouldn't excluding them go against this core value?"
Diversity and inclusion? how much did you get paid to say that? Your excluding the artist that do not use ai when you have used your no ai stance to attract us here. I remember being invited to join this site, you emailed me.
Diversity and inclusion? how much did you get paid to say that? Your excluding the artist that do not use ai when you have used your no ai stance to attract us here. I remember being invited to join this site, you emailed me.
Took a look at the AI enhanced and Adult galleries. One comment for both: selecting Daz software dropdown returns me to the main gallery. If these filters will (eventually) work.. cool. If not, it would be good to remove them from those galleries.
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CosmicEnvisionsWed, Jun 04
Account Closed
The flood gates are open.
AI is like a cancer it eventually corrupts.
If a Admin could kindly delete my account.
It's time to move on.
Thank you for what you have done over the years. And Thank you to the community. I wish you all the best, This is no longer the place to be for me
Have a wonderful Day
AI is like a cancer it eventually corrupts.
If a Admin could kindly delete my account.
It's time to move on.
Thank you for what you have done over the years. And Thank you to the community. I wish you all the best, This is no longer the place to be for me
Have a wonderful Day
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,732
Wed, Jun 04Even if I can understand your frustration and even if I had similar thoughts yesterday ... I now believe that this is the wrong way to go.
Let's rather have good and ever better pictures with traditional tools (aka manual) against all the machine-generated and somehow always same-looking junk.
That's definitely more fun
Let's rather have good and ever better pictures with traditional tools (aka manual) against all the machine-generated and somehow always same-looking junk.
That's definitely more fun
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Thu, Jun 05I don't think closing your account is the best way to resist AI. Especially since the two galleries are separate.
The more people who resist AI3D, the more references there will be in favor of humans.
If some people want to modify their images, that's their problem. Personally, I'm going to completely ignore this technique, which is ecologically speaking an aberration.
The more people who resist AI3D, the more references there will be in favor of humans.
If some people want to modify their images, that's their problem. Personally, I'm going to completely ignore this technique, which is ecologically speaking an aberration.
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Thu, Jun 05Quote:
"Basically, you keep doing what you do, right?"
sounds good to me.
"Basically, you keep doing what you do, right?"
sounds good to me.
CosmicEnvisions
Account Closed
Thu, Jun 05@Pushee-Ri
It's the right way for me, trust in the site is shattered. Why advertise NO AI and then do a backflip.
Very slowly more and more AI has been creeping through. I'll continue to Render just not post online. And that's okay that's Renderhubs choice.
We will see what happens. I need to walk away, I feel that. AI it feels off, it feels wrong and I trust that feeling.
@MKDAWUSS
I'll keep doing what I do but off-line
Finally go and print some posters and hang them around the house lol
@guy91600
Closing my account will stop me from coming back and cut the ties that bind.
Freeing up my energy for other things.
AI feeds of humans. Keep feeding it and it will continue to grow.
Stop feeding it and it's like the Oroborus eating it's own tail. It will only have its self to feed off, producing AI content with AI content.
AI in art is only a small fraction of the bigger picture. I hope people can one day fully understand and see that.
You want to kill something, stop feeding it, stop using it. And companies usually follow trends of other companies. Who owns these big companies? Do some homework and you'll start seeing the bigger picture.
Sometimes the goal is to divide people, cause chaos and confusion, mistrust and conditioning.
I'll leave it at that guy lol
@Masterstroke
Follow your intuition and do what's best for you.
Thanks for the support and feedback peeps, goodluck with your future works, look after yourselves
@Renderhub
Could you kindly close my account.
I will send a support ticket requesting it today. Thank You
Have a Awesome day
It's the right way for me, trust in the site is shattered. Why advertise NO AI and then do a backflip.
Very slowly more and more AI has been creeping through. I'll continue to Render just not post online. And that's okay that's Renderhubs choice.
We will see what happens. I need to walk away, I feel that. AI it feels off, it feels wrong and I trust that feeling.
@MKDAWUSS
I'll keep doing what I do but off-line
Finally go and print some posters and hang them around the house lol
@guy91600
Closing my account will stop me from coming back and cut the ties that bind.
Freeing up my energy for other things.
AI feeds of humans. Keep feeding it and it will continue to grow.
Stop feeding it and it's like the Oroborus eating it's own tail. It will only have its self to feed off, producing AI content with AI content.
AI in art is only a small fraction of the bigger picture. I hope people can one day fully understand and see that.
You want to kill something, stop feeding it, stop using it. And companies usually follow trends of other companies. Who owns these big companies? Do some homework and you'll start seeing the bigger picture.
Sometimes the goal is to divide people, cause chaos and confusion, mistrust and conditioning.
I'll leave it at that guy lol
@Masterstroke
Follow your intuition and do what's best for you.
Thanks for the support and feedback peeps, goodluck with your future works, look after yourselves
@Renderhub
Could you kindly close my account.
I will send a support ticket requesting it today. Thank You
Have a Awesome day
AI is out there and there's nothing we can do , ignoring AI existent will not make it go away , it will only make yourself illiterate , i will recommend RenderHub to make AI video news on the development of AI , a 3D artist must be up to date with AI technology if he still wants to be relevant , and only time will tell on the relevance of 3d industry in this AI era .
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Quote:Adding micro movements to body and facial animations.
Calculating realistic muscle and fat tissue under skin for posing and animations.
Could be a rigging helper, that learnt by machiene learning, basic anatomy sets for quadruped and biped mamals.
This is, where AI is actually useful and requested, Not as an "Make Art Button".
These are all tasks performed by professional rigging TDs (Technical directors) who spend YEARS learning to write
the types of coded drivers that give your beloved Daz Genesis model their lovely joint bends.
How nice that you seem quite OK with THEIR careers being destroyed by "Machine learning" as long as you do not have to compete for eyeballs against AI generated images in your FREE web galleries
on sites like Daz or Renderhub
Statements like yours are the exact reason why
the average layperson or people, in other AI affected industries ( like writing, Voice acting or music ) care nothing about the issue of AI image generation.
which lays bare the hypocrisy of just chanting the mantra of NO AI!!
when what you really mean is "NO automation that makes ME feel less relevant."
Calculating realistic muscle and fat tissue under skin for posing and animations.
Could be a rigging helper, that learnt by machiene learning, basic anatomy sets for quadruped and biped mamals.
This is, where AI is actually useful and requested, Not as an "Make Art Button".
These are all tasks performed by professional rigging TDs (Technical directors) who spend YEARS learning to write
the types of coded drivers that give your beloved Daz Genesis model their lovely joint bends.
How nice that you seem quite OK with THEIR careers being destroyed by "Machine learning" as long as you do not have to compete for eyeballs against AI generated images in your FREE web galleries
on sites like Daz or Renderhub
Statements like yours are the exact reason why
the average layperson or people, in other AI affected industries ( like writing, Voice acting or music ) care nothing about the issue of AI image generation.
which lays bare the hypocrisy of just chanting the mantra of NO AI!!
when what you really mean is "NO automation that makes ME feel less relevant."
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Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Thu, Jun 05I have no idea, what you are upset about.
I don't want to have anybody's career destroyed. I want those "TDs" to be in charge of developing and controling a machiene learning AI tool, that I as a user can use in my toolset for those purposes, I've mentioned, not to be overrun by by them.
Get off this combat mode.
Quote:
"which lays bare the hypocrisy of just chanting the mantra of NO AI!!
when what you really mean is "NO automation that makes ME feel less relevant."
I am openly repeating for YOU, to understand:
I reject and I am against generative AI as a "Make ART" button, as well as I am against, this kind of "make my image pretty"-AI.
I am ok with AI tools, that help complicated processes, like those I've mentioned. "Light calculations, shaders, rigging bla, bla.
And sorry, your work looks only that impressive, because an AI filter made it so.
Your modelling, your character building, your commitment is all impressing and great, but the final eye-candy is not yours.
The reason for your obvious anger is, that my rejection of generative AI and EI enhencement
"... makes YOU feel less relevant."
I don't want to have anybody's career destroyed. I want those "TDs" to be in charge of developing and controling a machiene learning AI tool, that I as a user can use in my toolset for those purposes, I've mentioned, not to be overrun by by them.
Get off this combat mode.
Quote:
"which lays bare the hypocrisy of just chanting the mantra of NO AI!!
when what you really mean is "NO automation that makes ME feel less relevant."
I am openly repeating for YOU, to understand:
I reject and I am against generative AI as a "Make ART" button, as well as I am against, this kind of "make my image pretty"-AI.
I am ok with AI tools, that help complicated processes, like those I've mentioned. "Light calculations, shaders, rigging bla, bla.
And sorry, your work looks only that impressive, because an AI filter made it so.
Your modelling, your character building, your commitment is all impressing and great, but the final eye-candy is not yours.
The reason for your obvious anger is, that my rejection of generative AI and EI enhencement
"... makes YOU feel less relevant."
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Thu, Jun 05There is one more crucial reason, why generative AI is terrible.
It destroys all the trust, that we have towards an artist.
It destroys the trust in the motivation of an artist, the trust in the commitment of an artist, the thoughtfullness that is part of the artistic journey and the general ability and talent of an artist.
Back in old days at Renderosity, you've been respected for your comics and animations, that were so far ahead of the typical Poser user folks.
Looks like nothing has been evolved since then,
instead you had your AI-buddy come over, in order to make it more eye-candy.
It destroys all the trust, that we have towards an artist.
It destroys the trust in the motivation of an artist, the trust in the commitment of an artist, the thoughtfullness that is part of the artistic journey and the general ability and talent of an artist.
Back in old days at Renderosity, you've been respected for your comics and animations, that were so far ahead of the typical Poser user folks.
Looks like nothing has been evolved since then,
instead you had your AI-buddy come over, in order to make it more eye-candy.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Thu, Jun 05Spot on!
My trust is gone, completely!
How can I every buy a background again? It could be AI and with that, I would have to mark my render as AI, even though I didn't know.
Or maybe I have already bought some?
How can I be sure, that the outfit I like is made with blender or what ever program and not AI?
Do I have to mark my render AI, cause I've used a dress made with AI?
This pit is bottomless.
And everyone blowing in the "AI can be good" - horn denies to see the bigger picture.
Everyone is training and feeding the beast, that will "eat" us in the end.
Robots looking like humans, that are hard to differ from real humans. Voices for these robots getting more and more natural, the same with the movements from these robots.
They are already working in hospitals and so much more.
Still to recognize as what they are: robots, but for how long?
In the end, this "discussion" is useful as a hole in the head.
The floodgates are open, here as well.
My trust is gone, completely!
How can I every buy a background again? It could be AI and with that, I would have to mark my render as AI, even though I didn't know.
Or maybe I have already bought some?
How can I be sure, that the outfit I like is made with blender or what ever program and not AI?
Do I have to mark my render AI, cause I've used a dress made with AI?
This pit is bottomless.
And everyone blowing in the "AI can be good" - horn denies to see the bigger picture.
Everyone is training and feeding the beast, that will "eat" us in the end.
Robots looking like humans, that are hard to differ from real humans. Voices for these robots getting more and more natural, the same with the movements from these robots.
They are already working in hospitals and so much more.
Still to recognize as what they are: robots, but for how long?
In the end, this "discussion" is useful as a hole in the head.
The floodgates are open, here as well.
Quote:And sorry, your work looks only that impressive, because an AI filter made it so.
Your modelling, your character building, your commitment is all impressing and great, but the final eye-candy is not yours…….Back in old days at Renderosity, you've been respected for your comics and animations, that were so far ahead of the typical Poser user folks.
Looks like nothing has been evolved since then,
Right… back in my Poser 4-6 days I was like YOU are today.
Completely dependent on whatever the Daz poser content market saw fit to provide me.
but unlike you
I did "Evolve" and will continue do do so
Thus I do not FEAR AI like you do.
Mixtures of Daz content alongside My created set models and custom rigged characters by me in Blender NO AI needed
Your modelling, your character building, your commitment is all impressing and great, but the final eye-candy is not yours…….Back in old days at Renderosity, you've been respected for your comics and animations, that were so far ahead of the typical Poser user folks.
Looks like nothing has been evolved since then,
Right… back in my Poser 4-6 days I was like YOU are today.
Completely dependent on whatever the Daz poser content market saw fit to provide me.
but unlike you
I did "Evolve" and will continue do do so
Thus I do not FEAR AI like you do.
Mixtures of Daz content alongside My created set models and custom rigged characters by me in Blender NO AI needed
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Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Thu, Jun 05No AI used?
Great then. Very cool stuff.
Why defend that AI cr*p then?
Great then. Very cool stuff.
Why defend that AI cr*p then?
Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Thu, Jun 05Quote:
"but unlike you"
You're snapping like a dog, that's been stepped on its tail.
No substance, only the wish to hurt me somehow.
I know, where I'm at.
I know, what I've achieved, and I know, what's left to do, and where I am struggeling.
It is in plain sight for everyone.
I don't use AI to lie in my watchers' face.
"but unlike you"
You're snapping like a dog, that's been stepped on its tail.
No substance, only the wish to hurt me somehow.
I know, where I'm at.
I know, what I've achieved, and I know, what's left to do, and where I am struggeling.
It is in plain sight for everyone.
I don't use AI to lie in my watchers' face.
Quote:If a Admin could kindly delete my account.
It's time to move on.
Try here, they look like a serious
Traditional Art community!!
https://iamagcommunity.iamag.co/
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Amongst many other things you could've updated on this site... Perhaps the ones you promised us instead? Also what happened to no AI?
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Hyp-St
Karma: 13,634
Thu, Jun 05This is what I was thinking. Renderhub went far and wide on the social media to point out they fully support human artists. No AI allowed.
Ragamuffin
Karma: 654
Fri, Jun 06I think it's valuable to go look at RH's "Investor Relations" page (https://www.renderhub.com/info/investor-relations) and note the sections about NFTs and the Metaverse, which are no longer the Hot Trend (tm) but were, briefly for each, the "AI will change the world" of their respective days (which, remember, was just a few years ago). This certainly gives the pivot from "No AI" to "Some AI" a *likely* fairly standard explanation: it's where the money is, and number must go up.
Quote: Why defend that AI cr*p then?
That is actually a very fair question
My answer is this:
I understand that this transformative LLM based technology will be disruptive to capitalism itself as it removes the scarcity upon which capitalism is based.
But that is the nature of new technology and society will have to decide how to adjust as it wont be "uninvented"
My primary use of AI is NOT still gallery art but for voice acting and royalty free music scores for my animations.
Animations that I will continue to create
for my "pleasure of the process"
despite the incredible advances in AI video
generation ( like google's V03 )soon making human animation and video obsolete.
So no, I dont want anti AI legislation taking away my AI generated audio along with the AI
stuff I do not even care about like coding
or gallery art etc.
That is actually a very fair question
My answer is this:
I understand that this transformative LLM based technology will be disruptive to capitalism itself as it removes the scarcity upon which capitalism is based.
But that is the nature of new technology and society will have to decide how to adjust as it wont be "uninvented"
My primary use of AI is NOT still gallery art but for voice acting and royalty free music scores for my animations.
Animations that I will continue to create
for my "pleasure of the process"
despite the incredible advances in AI video
generation ( like google's V03 )soon making human animation and video obsolete.
So no, I dont want anti AI legislation taking away my AI generated audio along with the AI
stuff I do not even care about like coding
or gallery art etc.
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The absurdity of having a conversation about ethics and morality with a machine---regardless of the apparent conclusion---is evidently lost on the conversationalist. We are less than a decade (maybe two years) away from the masses completely outsourcing their brains and decision making to ai (Hebrew word, meaning "ruin" & "destruction;" cf, Joshua 7-8, oh yes, this too has been prophesied). Artistic people were once iconoclasts (imagebreakers), and be not deceived: ai is the image of humankind's enemy. And artistic people must be willing to stand firm, even in fits of pyrrhic pique, against where the wolves are shepherding the sheeple.
Anabran is correct when he says that we have no power (to force our wills here), and our options look futile. But we are not powerless. When one person does what they know is right despite mounting external pressure to fold, to go along and get along, they become a light to others with weaker wills. This is our responsibility. It is useless trying to convince someone of the necessity of this stance who has been inculcated with the same values with which the machines are programmed.
We are all taking this personally, but it is not personal. Words are containers for ideas, and the lessons of Newspeak are not lost on our species' enemies. Long ago the global overlords replaced "personnel" with "human resources." This was a hint of how they saw us and a harbinger of their future plans for us: Drain the contents and discard the containers. The datamining and site-scraping of the past two decades has drained the content, and, efficient malefactors that they are, they began discarding containers half a decade ago.
I remember the brave voices of those who proclaimed that they would never voluntarily be injected with poison, but when they were told that their jobs were at stake, they caved. And now they are either dead or sick several times a year or, ironically, terminated. You cannot negotiate with psychopaths or with machines programmed by psychopaths. You will train your replacements, and you will be terminated or exterminated, Mr. Anderson.
But there are those who will mount up on eagles' wings in spite of all these plans. There will be no fanfare, parade, or headlines, but your stance will make a difference. Ultimately. "Having done all, to stand."
Anabran is correct when he says that we have no power (to force our wills here), and our options look futile. But we are not powerless. When one person does what they know is right despite mounting external pressure to fold, to go along and get along, they become a light to others with weaker wills. This is our responsibility. It is useless trying to convince someone of the necessity of this stance who has been inculcated with the same values with which the machines are programmed.
We are all taking this personally, but it is not personal. Words are containers for ideas, and the lessons of Newspeak are not lost on our species' enemies. Long ago the global overlords replaced "personnel" with "human resources." This was a hint of how they saw us and a harbinger of their future plans for us: Drain the contents and discard the containers. The datamining and site-scraping of the past two decades has drained the content, and, efficient malefactors that they are, they began discarding containers half a decade ago.
I remember the brave voices of those who proclaimed that they would never voluntarily be injected with poison, but when they were told that their jobs were at stake, they caved. And now they are either dead or sick several times a year or, ironically, terminated. You cannot negotiate with psychopaths or with machines programmed by psychopaths. You will train your replacements, and you will be terminated or exterminated, Mr. Anderson.
But there are those who will mount up on eagles' wings in spite of all these plans. There will be no fanfare, parade, or headlines, but your stance will make a difference. Ultimately. "Having done all, to stand."
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xyer0
Karma: 555
Thu, Jun 05Thank YOU for standing up. Keep your head up. People will be demanding to go to the front of the queue to the gas chambers, and will fight you if you try to dissuade them. He who is wicked, let him be wicked still.
Quote:I don't use AI to lie in my watchers' face.
And I do not lie about my use of AI
and I could have easily done so for the
graffiti contest and faked the "proof of original design" with my professional graphic Design skills
in the Adobe suite.
Speaking of Adobe, this 2D animation was made with Adobe's Character animator program.
The music and singing is AI generated as well as the background images
I hand animated his guitar playing but used
the built in webcam facial motion capture for the
head movement and eye blinks.
One hour of work start to finish for me.... because of AI
And I do not lie about my use of AI
and I could have easily done so for the
graffiti contest and faked the "proof of original design" with my professional graphic Design skills
in the Adobe suite.
Speaking of Adobe, this 2D animation was made with Adobe's Character animator program.
The music and singing is AI generated as well as the background images
I hand animated his guitar playing but used
the built in webcam facial motion capture for the
head movement and eye blinks.
One hour of work start to finish for me.... because of AI
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Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Thu, Jun 05"...my Mona Lisa, an artist, and now I'm like Mother Teresa, my
paintbrush is in the dirt, and I see a painter painting...."
AI lyrics, and a catchy tune melody.
paintbrush is in the dirt, and I see a painter painting...."
AI lyrics, and a catchy tune melody.
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Thu, Jun 05And your video just happed to link to Jon Stewart's Daily Show talking about ElonMusk getting DOGE'ed out of a job, and "Speaking of misanthropic data hoarders," very non sequitor but we do live in strange times.
Quote:This is what I was thinking. Renderhub went far and wide on the social media to point out they fully support human artists. No AI allowed.
While I applaud this decision by Renderhub
this is a very important lesson about the perils
of taking such an absolutist position on a situation that is clearly fluid.
One of my other 2D animation programs "MOHO
pro " recently posted a YT video saying that "Developing AI features was Not in their plans in 2025"
which could literally mean only the planned next decimal point release this year etc.
The comment section was filled with jubilant anti AI activists celebrating this decision to "stay pure forever from this evil technology."
Now when MOHO has a new "plan" down to road and inevitably adds some assistive AI features at least they will have some duplicitous wiggle room to claim they never promised the prohibition was permanent which was the impression clearly given by Renderhub.
So frankly you people are NOT WRONG to be upset
in this specific instance.
While I applaud this decision by Renderhub
this is a very important lesson about the perils
of taking such an absolutist position on a situation that is clearly fluid.
One of my other 2D animation programs "MOHO
pro " recently posted a YT video saying that "Developing AI features was Not in their plans in 2025"
which could literally mean only the planned next decimal point release this year etc.
The comment section was filled with jubilant anti AI activists celebrating this decision to "stay pure forever from this evil technology."
Now when MOHO has a new "plan" down to road and inevitably adds some assistive AI features at least they will have some duplicitous wiggle room to claim they never promised the prohibition was permanent which was the impression clearly given by Renderhub.
So frankly you people are NOT WRONG to be upset
in this specific instance.
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I personally have mixed feelings about AI. Some of its implementations are actually interesting, some are just slop. All I know right now is that in this political environment no government with any sort of interest in its security will halt the advancement of AI on its own turf. But governments are governments, and companies are companies. And as far as I'm concerned with RenderHub is - is the service quality still good, and the answer is yes. AI enhanced art having its own category is convenient, because depending on the visitor's interests, they can either ignore the section, or focus on it specifically.
For anyone with hardware limitations, AI enhancements can be a game changer, and not only that, but it can eliminate some of that "clearly CGI" look many renderers(especially Iray) give. It can add extra detail to hair models, make wool fabrics have a soft fluffy texture, it can add fine lines to a character's expression - all with lower hardware requirements. Right now it's still going there, but soon enough yes. I think on its own AI suffers from the lack of spacial awareness. It's why I think AI enhanced cgi will be the future in entertainment and 3d art. It lowers the costs, render time, and makes the whole creation process more forgiving. Do I want it there? Not really. It's still gonna come and take over - it's how it goes with new tech.
Right now the general public and even many artists are already accepting the presence of this technology. In fact I don't think majority even cares whether AI is made of stolen work or not. It's the vocal minority that does, and because of said minority being vocal, it's easy to see things through this bubble of "everyone hates AI".
There's a portion of 3d artists coming here who use AI to improve the realism of their work. They come here to buy from this site, in other words - they're our customers. And right now the sales are down and we need every visitor to stick around. If RenderHub was to chase AI off this site, they'd be alienating a portion of the vendors' income. The AI users will just migrate elsewhere, or just give the good old piracy a shot.
For anyone with hardware limitations, AI enhancements can be a game changer, and not only that, but it can eliminate some of that "clearly CGI" look many renderers(especially Iray) give. It can add extra detail to hair models, make wool fabrics have a soft fluffy texture, it can add fine lines to a character's expression - all with lower hardware requirements. Right now it's still going there, but soon enough yes. I think on its own AI suffers from the lack of spacial awareness. It's why I think AI enhanced cgi will be the future in entertainment and 3d art. It lowers the costs, render time, and makes the whole creation process more forgiving. Do I want it there? Not really. It's still gonna come and take over - it's how it goes with new tech.
Right now the general public and even many artists are already accepting the presence of this technology. In fact I don't think majority even cares whether AI is made of stolen work or not. It's the vocal minority that does, and because of said minority being vocal, it's easy to see things through this bubble of "everyone hates AI".
There's a portion of 3d artists coming here who use AI to improve the realism of their work. They come here to buy from this site, in other words - they're our customers. And right now the sales are down and we need every visitor to stick around. If RenderHub was to chase AI off this site, they'd be alienating a portion of the vendors' income. The AI users will just migrate elsewhere, or just give the good old piracy a shot.
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the joker of spades
Karma: 23,067
Fri, Jun 06Very positive reasoning, but balanced only on one side, since you talk about earnings, if instead the traditional artists leave? How would the earnings be? As many have done, at the beginning it is used to improve one's work, after, the construction phase is skipped and unlike what you think, no one is happy if they steal your work to train this misfortune....
undeadcrabb
Karma: 4,290
Fri, Jun 06Why would the traditional artists leave? Would they not need any models to work with? Did the official Daz3D store lose the traditional artists, right after creating their own AI image generator model? Does the AI section in their gallery chase the traditional artists away?
The only platform that I know lost many traditional artists is DeviantArt but it's because they switched their model from supporting traditional art to supporting AI art mainly. And the reason why is - they get money from people using their AI model. It's their main product, right after Core. RenderHub's main products are 3d assets. If they want to shoot themselves in the foot and promote AI enhanced images over non-AI content, that's their free choice. But if they have any liking for money, they likely won't. Good non-AI renders sell products.
The only platform that I know lost many traditional artists is DeviantArt but it's because they switched their model from supporting traditional art to supporting AI art mainly. And the reason why is - they get money from people using their AI model. It's their main product, right after Core. RenderHub's main products are 3d assets. If they want to shoot themselves in the foot and promote AI enhanced images over non-AI content, that's their free choice. But if they have any liking for money, they likely won't. Good non-AI renders sell products.
the joker of spades
Karma: 23,067
Fri, Jun 06I think your source of information is wrong, most of the people who post here are found on DA and many in the galleries of the daz store, returning to the discussion on improving the works, do you think they are able to distinguish an improved work from one done only in AI? Not even in your dreams, they are already causing damage, they have moved some works with a normal postwork, in the new folder because they read that luminar AI was used ... I see a lot of confusion and little preparation, now I understand the disasters made in the contests ....
For now, I don't have a strong position for or against AI. I appreciate that images using AI in post-production have a dedicated gallery. If I understand correctly, images entirely generated by AI don't currently have a place in galleries.
I think that in the medium term, this question may arise for objects made entirely or partially with AI. For now, what I've tested (a very simple table without drawers) has given me such mediocre and completely unoptimized OBJ code that it's better to start from scratch than to try to correct it manually. The administrators have some time to think about a position on this option
I think that in the medium term, this question may arise for objects made entirely or partially with AI. For now, what I've tested (a very simple table without drawers) has given me such mediocre and completely unoptimized OBJ code that it's better to start from scratch than to try to correct it manually. The administrators have some time to think about a position on this option
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Quote: For now, what I've tested (a very simple table without drawers) has given me such mediocre and completely unoptimized OBJ code that it's better to start from scratch than to try to correct it manually.
It depends on the AI to 3D mesh service you are using
The site called Rodin can produce fairly clean quad meshes as it was able rig this mesh as a conformer in Reallusion fairly easily without any editing
(even though it will need some further editing and re-weighting to be a really "good "conformer. )
It depends on the AI to 3D mesh service you are using
The site called Rodin can produce fairly clean quad meshes as it was able rig this mesh as a conformer in Reallusion fairly easily without any editing
(even though it will need some further editing and re-weighting to be a really "good "conformer. )
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anabran, well done, your owning this thread. Why don't you put up some links to ai 3d model generators.
not only have you potentially damaged the income of model makers and clothing designers onsite but
also exposed yourself for cheating in the fashion event. Showing how you did it has just jeopardised
the entire competition. Genius XD
not only have you potentially damaged the income of model makers and clothing designers onsite but
also exposed yourself for cheating in the fashion event. Showing how you did it has just jeopardised
the entire competition. Genius XD
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Pinspotter
Karma: 5,553
Sat, Jun 07Haha he finally outed himself but good XD According to him, me taking a week off from work to cram all things Marvelous into my technician's brain for a fashion contest I took part in a few years ago, was just a waste of time XD I ran out of time due to constant work in my field, but surely I couldn't have learned anything in Marvelous in that one week... right? Just use Rodin, easy peasy.
I guess I can throw RetopoFlow out the window too, what a waste of money on that beta version /sarcasm
I guess I can throw RetopoFlow out the window too, what a waste of money on that beta version /sarcasm
For a number of reasons renderhub is no longer a suitable home for my gallery and assets. Sadly my store will remain closed except for the free stuff and any collaborations. 200 plus assets for unreal will now be on the fab marketplace as it's the most suitable outlet for developing with Unreal. Nothing personal RH but it keeps it simple for me.
My Daz products will slowly start appearing on daz marketplace so be sure to keep an eye out for my products near Christmas.
If I have spoken to you about products or asked you to test them I will be in touch when the product is ready to share. The Same goes for collaborations with other artist, I will still be here but not very active at least in the forum and gallery. If I follow you and your not using ai then I will try my best to regularly look at your gallery and support your original art.
I would rather buy products direct from the artist to show my upmost support during this challenging time. If you have a patron or equivalent or even better your own website please drop me a message with the links.
The main reason for this move is the sudden move to be pro ai on a site that was marketing itself as a no ai sanctuary. We were not consulted or asked our opinions until after the new gallery was launched making it seem or feel like we were miss lead. You SHOULD HAVE ASKED OUR OPINION before the change and maybe I would feel different.
It's important for me to make a choice regarding the use of ai in my creative workflow. As an artist I wish to grow as I feel I have always done. Standing my ground as a traditional artist is not about a fear of ai. Ai art is disingenuous. I want to find ways to get it right in engine / render and I want to keep pushing myself for better results and not fake it. I want my customers to trust me. I also want to show my support for other artist that feel the same way.
As for the constant conflict here and trolling, something should be done about the obvious childish behavior because it puts off professionals from taking the site seriously.
If you don't know me well I stepped away from the "Media production business" because My child needs a parent at home. I was not going to let nannies bring him up while I was away working all the time. Ego and ambition are for younger men not middle aged experienced successful professionals like myself.
I think principles are what relly make a man and I live by my principles.
There's plenty of work for myself when I want it but I prefer to stay home and raise a child. I'm not chasing a job in the gaming industry, I'm 50 so they don't want me anyway. I will make my own thing when my sons education is finished and he's way ahead of his peers as the next gen of indie devs.
I have so many contacts and friends working on interesting productions it's a constant temptation. A video editing job for my friend who owns the biggest online music marketing agency is on offer right now. I wont name any names but that is or was my world. If I want the job it's mine. I can be working on a number of big productions by tomorrow morning if I wish but I choose to be skint and stay home with my boy, It's far more rewarding.
A few years ago a university offered me a doctorate, placement to develop a flood defense system I designed. It was tested in North Africa inverted it can transport water across long distances for irrigation. I have 4 patents and testing the flood defense is one of the first things I'm doing with unreal engine and Fluid simulation.
As well as engineering personally I can paint, draw, build anything. Combine any artistic style or format in the real world or digitally. I can and have sculpted with clay and even sandstone. 30 years of real world art engineering and production. I know my own skill level and was at one point considered one of the best production engineers in the bussiness. There are video's of my event work on the institute of physics youtube and CD-Rom in the schools.
Over the past 30 years you are likely to have seen my work in a few TV commercials and music video's even cover mount CD-Rom on magazines. Lighting for sports including formula 1 and private events.
The idea of being left behind as an artist if you do not use ai is purely nonsense. Indeed if your chasing a career on social media and wish to use ai that is your choice and I respect that. I don't want to see ai art because I find it empty and pointless. Art, true art is an expression, the format is so important, the personal expression is what makes it art. machine is simply code It has no emotions, no feelings, no history and experiences.
I say Learn to light your 3d scene better it's not that hard.
I'm no master or the best artist in the box by a long way, but I am original. I appreciate things like brush stokes in an oil painting, every great artist has a different stroke. Building up the layers of paint on canvas to catch the light and make it seem real. The fine detail that is unique to every master. Ai has nothing on the real thing. All that shines is not gold.
It really comes down to what sort of artist do you personally want to be. Real or fake, creative or socially successful. I can look myself in the mirror knowing I am genuine.
To any willing artist out there I say this. There is no substitute for learning to do it yourself. It may not be easy but be persistent and think of it as a workout.
Study the classics not just the styles and tones but also the iconography and deep meaning behind everything in the scene. draw sketch and plan your work before starting it.
Practice, practice and then practice some more. Master your craft and you can be proud of what you do. Good fortune to you.
Use ai and your honesty robbing yourself of the experience.
I will log in to stay in touch with my friends.
Best wishes to all - including you anabran, shake the chip off your shoulder and be happy - you got rid of me
My Daz products will slowly start appearing on daz marketplace so be sure to keep an eye out for my products near Christmas.
If I have spoken to you about products or asked you to test them I will be in touch when the product is ready to share. The Same goes for collaborations with other artist, I will still be here but not very active at least in the forum and gallery. If I follow you and your not using ai then I will try my best to regularly look at your gallery and support your original art.
I would rather buy products direct from the artist to show my upmost support during this challenging time. If you have a patron or equivalent or even better your own website please drop me a message with the links.
The main reason for this move is the sudden move to be pro ai on a site that was marketing itself as a no ai sanctuary. We were not consulted or asked our opinions until after the new gallery was launched making it seem or feel like we were miss lead. You SHOULD HAVE ASKED OUR OPINION before the change and maybe I would feel different.
It's important for me to make a choice regarding the use of ai in my creative workflow. As an artist I wish to grow as I feel I have always done. Standing my ground as a traditional artist is not about a fear of ai. Ai art is disingenuous. I want to find ways to get it right in engine / render and I want to keep pushing myself for better results and not fake it. I want my customers to trust me. I also want to show my support for other artist that feel the same way.
As for the constant conflict here and trolling, something should be done about the obvious childish behavior because it puts off professionals from taking the site seriously.
If you don't know me well I stepped away from the "Media production business" because My child needs a parent at home. I was not going to let nannies bring him up while I was away working all the time. Ego and ambition are for younger men not middle aged experienced successful professionals like myself.
I think principles are what relly make a man and I live by my principles.
There's plenty of work for myself when I want it but I prefer to stay home and raise a child. I'm not chasing a job in the gaming industry, I'm 50 so they don't want me anyway. I will make my own thing when my sons education is finished and he's way ahead of his peers as the next gen of indie devs.
I have so many contacts and friends working on interesting productions it's a constant temptation. A video editing job for my friend who owns the biggest online music marketing agency is on offer right now. I wont name any names but that is or was my world. If I want the job it's mine. I can be working on a number of big productions by tomorrow morning if I wish but I choose to be skint and stay home with my boy, It's far more rewarding.
A few years ago a university offered me a doctorate, placement to develop a flood defense system I designed. It was tested in North Africa inverted it can transport water across long distances for irrigation. I have 4 patents and testing the flood defense is one of the first things I'm doing with unreal engine and Fluid simulation.
As well as engineering personally I can paint, draw, build anything. Combine any artistic style or format in the real world or digitally. I can and have sculpted with clay and even sandstone. 30 years of real world art engineering and production. I know my own skill level and was at one point considered one of the best production engineers in the bussiness. There are video's of my event work on the institute of physics youtube and CD-Rom in the schools.
Over the past 30 years you are likely to have seen my work in a few TV commercials and music video's even cover mount CD-Rom on magazines. Lighting for sports including formula 1 and private events.
The idea of being left behind as an artist if you do not use ai is purely nonsense. Indeed if your chasing a career on social media and wish to use ai that is your choice and I respect that. I don't want to see ai art because I find it empty and pointless. Art, true art is an expression, the format is so important, the personal expression is what makes it art. machine is simply code It has no emotions, no feelings, no history and experiences.
I say Learn to light your 3d scene better it's not that hard.
I'm no master or the best artist in the box by a long way, but I am original. I appreciate things like brush stokes in an oil painting, every great artist has a different stroke. Building up the layers of paint on canvas to catch the light and make it seem real. The fine detail that is unique to every master. Ai has nothing on the real thing. All that shines is not gold.
It really comes down to what sort of artist do you personally want to be. Real or fake, creative or socially successful. I can look myself in the mirror knowing I am genuine.
To any willing artist out there I say this. There is no substitute for learning to do it yourself. It may not be easy but be persistent and think of it as a workout.
Study the classics not just the styles and tones but also the iconography and deep meaning behind everything in the scene. draw sketch and plan your work before starting it.
Practice, practice and then practice some more. Master your craft and you can be proud of what you do. Good fortune to you.
Use ai and your honesty robbing yourself of the experience.
I will log in to stay in touch with my friends.
Best wishes to all - including you anabran, shake the chip off your shoulder and be happy - you got rid of me
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,732
Thu, Jun 05It is really sad that you are leaving RH. But I can understand you - and your disappointment - and respect your decision. I wish you the best of luck with all your plans and would be delighted if you would drop by here from time to time.
ArtbyMel
Karma: 10,740
Fri, Jun 06Damn, this sucks. But I understand, and you will be missed. Best of luck with everything and I hope your son continues to do well in his chosen field.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Thu, Jun 26I so wish emojis for this place, it would make it more fun
So I can only write:
BIG FAT thumbs UP!
So I can only write:
BIG FAT thumbs UP!
Quote:Why don't you put up some links to ai 3d model generators.
Already did in this thread
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/10557/graffiti-contest-winners-announced
Spoiler alert: most anti AI activist already know about AI model generators where have you been?
and unless you can prove any of us actual creatives used AI for our competition entries you will have to just STFU and cope & seethe
Remember, you joined here because this is was "NO AI" site and now its... well …. not
I genuinely feel sad for what you must be feeling right now Bonj….. honestly
Already did in this thread
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/10557/graffiti-contest-winners-announced
Spoiler alert: most anti AI activist already know about AI model generators where have you been?
and unless you can prove any of us actual creatives used AI for our competition entries you will have to just STFU and cope & seethe
Remember, you joined here because this is was "NO AI" site and now its... well …. not
I genuinely feel sad for what you must be feeling right now Bonj….. honestly
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Masterstroke
Karma: 3,864
Fri, Jun 06"Nobody cares"
Yeah, that's why this thread is on top of the forum's most recent list for days now.^^
Yeah, that's why you keep posting, instead of letting go. ^^
Yeah, that's why every discussion thread about AI becomes very heated soon,
because "nobody cares" ^^
Yeah, that's why this thread is on top of the forum's most recent list for days now.^^
Yeah, that's why you keep posting, instead of letting go. ^^
Yeah, that's why every discussion thread about AI becomes very heated soon,
because "nobody cares" ^^
it would be pretty cool if block actually worked, because god damn there's some awful looking trash getting posted in here
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Excessive
Karma: 7,883
Fri, Jun 06the only effect it has on forum posting is to make it annoying to comment on things, you still see reams and reams of terrible stuff you'd rather not and wouldn't expect to from a blocked account
JohnnyLuck777
Karma: 4,233
Tue, Jun 10That's not part of the blocking feature.
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/10541/website-feature-update-user-blocking
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/10541/website-feature-update-user-blocking
Excessive
Karma: 7,883
Tue, Jun 10I'm aware it's not part of the feature, it should be part of the feature. Tired of seeing reams of annoying bullshit from Anabran to be blunt.
Quote:Very positive reasoning, but balanced only on one side, since you talk about earnings, if instead the traditional artists leave? How would the earnings be?
This site is huge with global reach.
https://www.semrush.com/website/renderhub.com/overview/
It is a bit myopic to hyper focus on one section of the art galleries that are 99 percent Daz content renders.
In April the average time spent by a visitor here was just under 11 minutes.
Renderhub sells Many other formats and those buyers are likely spending those 11 minutes looking at the store product images and prices
because they have actual work to do .
They are probably not here doing forensic examinations of the Daz content sub galleries trying to sniff out AI images .
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You know, maybe that should be a gallery setting similar to SafeSite, for people who don't want to see it.
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JohnnyLuck777
Karma: 4,233
Tue, Jun 10Isn't this better? If you don't want to see it, you just don't go to the AI-Enhanced gallery.
For those who are feeling bewildered by some of the wild claims being made about "AI" (which in this context means generative models like LLMs, image generators, and the like, because those have been the subject of a tremendous hype bubble since GPT3) let me strongly recommend Ed Zitron's "Where's your Ed at?" site, where he has been publishing a number of pieces skeptical not just of the technology, but the business models behind OpenAI and others. You can argue with evangelists about what "AI" will be able to do in the near, medium, and far future and those arguments will mostly go nowhere because they tend to reduce to arguments of *faith* and not *fact*, but several of Ed's essays get into the financials of this stuff and ask questions that nobody seems to be able to answer about how any of the wild claims can actually come to pass just from a money standpoint. Even if you are wildly optimistic about the technology, it's worth reading the skeptical stuff like this, because, frankly, the hyper-optimistic stuff is making some extraordinary claims without extraordinary evidence to back it up.
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The REPORT drop down , needs to have a "AI-Enhanced" flag, so those blatantly obvious existing images in the main gallery, get moved over to the new AI Enhanced gallery where they belong.
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Ion
Karma: 5,194
Sat, Jun 07Thanks for the suggestion, for now use "miscategorized" and we will move it.
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Sat, Jun 07More than a few in this gallery here, they even mention it in the descriptions. https://www.renderhub.com/calladsessence/gallery
Huh. Interesting. What does RH do after dealing with a whole quarrel over AI being in a contest forbidding AI use? If you guessed "give AI a space space on the website," you're correct!
I'm tilted.
I'm tilted.
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gh0stttt
Karma: 1,372
Sat, Jun 07Hi!
Both had/have AI, and I'm specifically only talking about the Graffiti one, not all of them.
Both had/have AI, and I'm specifically only talking about the Graffiti one, not all of them.
This is a 3d model site primarily. we sell models. Should we be enhancing our renders of the models? No that would be misguiding our customers.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,732
Sat, Jun 07A good - and above all important - point!
With product promos without AI (enhanced or otherwise), the buyer can rely on the product being reproduced in his own renderings as it was shown on the promos (OK - the buyer may have to learn a bit about lighting etc. first ... but it is basically possible)
This is not the case (for all) with product promos that come out of the machine. That's why I don't buy anything that looks manipulated in any way.
Note: AI (enhanced or otherwise) product promos are like packet soup: great packaging - inedible content.
With product promos without AI (enhanced or otherwise), the buyer can rely on the product being reproduced in his own renderings as it was shown on the promos (OK - the buyer may have to learn a bit about lighting etc. first ... but it is basically possible)
This is not the case (for all) with product promos that come out of the machine. That's why I don't buy anything that looks manipulated in any way.
Note: AI (enhanced or otherwise) product promos are like packet soup: great packaging - inedible content.
bu_es
Karma: 10,594
Sat, Jun 07Hi, I never did any official promotion with AI, but I used my own images to give them the AI touch. So much so that not even the AI forums were happy, saying they were too Diaz, and here they wanted to burn me for having AI.
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Mon, Jun 09I totally agree, the customer bases his decision on what he sees of the product with the promotional images. It's the product that interests him, not the decor, just like when I'm in a restaurant, it's what's on my plate that counts, regardless of whether the cutlery is stainless steel or silver.
bu_es
Karma: 10,594
Mon, Jun 09Just remember that now almost all, if not all, digital editing programs have AI built into them. Years ago, there were purists who didn't want to use anything like Iray, Postworks, or filters in Photoshop, etc., or in PS. All of this reminds me of that. It was precisely those who used other programs, like Blender, etc., who laughed at Poser and DAZ3D. I went through that too. I'm not Ramses II, but he was my classmate, hahaha.
I hate Ai.. Period.........................................................................................
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! REPORT
Many people won't like what I'm about to say, but I don't care because it's the truth.
When you take your rendered image and put it to work with AI, you'll see that sometimes it doesn't, but other times it does have a better finish than you could even dream of with your skills and technical team. Why?
Because AI corrects many of the flaws in your image and takes it to a much more refined level. There are many examples to see. It's fine for those who don't want to see it, but that doesn't change anything.
That's what AI enhancement software is for.
When you take your rendered image and put it to work with AI, you'll see that sometimes it doesn't, but other times it does have a better finish than you could even dream of with your skills and technical team. Why?
Because AI corrects many of the flaws in your image and takes it to a much more refined level. There are many examples to see. It's fine for those who don't want to see it, but that doesn't change anything.
That's what AI enhancement software is for.
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! REPORT
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Mon, Jun 09You're right, I don't like it.
Because this so called perfection, in what kind of world are we going to live?
Everything will be lookalike, how boring.
Luckily ai will still put mistakes into render, making many even worse than before and since ai has started feeding ai, I have the hope, it will destroy itself one day
Because this so called perfection, in what kind of world are we going to live?
Everything will be lookalike, how boring.
Luckily ai will still put mistakes into render, making many even worse than before and since ai has started feeding ai, I have the hope, it will destroy itself one day
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Mon, Jun 09And that's why an AI-Enhanced Gallery is the best solution for this, so it is obvious that images that were enhanced by a computer, all sit together over there competeing against other AI enhanced images, and some artist isn't trying to pass off AI stuff as a 3D render that they had very little input in.
It is interesting that Mattew has no gallery at all. It's as if he just started a new account to make the comment because he didn't want to have it acssociated with his actual account here.
It is interesting that Mattew has no gallery at all. It's as if he just started a new account to make the comment because he didn't want to have it acssociated with his actual account here.
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Mon, Jun 09'Mattew has no gallery at all'
That's correct, but the account was created in March 2023, so it's not a response to this thread anonymously!
That's correct, but the account was created in March 2023, so it's not a response to this thread anonymously!
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Mon, Jun 09The account can be older, and yet still serve the same purpose. To offer comments with anonymity.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Mon, Jun 09If old or new, "people" or better to say accounts, that aren't active at all, no galleries, but taking part in competitions, no forum posts but always in favor for something the majority don't like.
These "people" are very suspicious and never to be trusted!
These "people" are very suspicious and never to be trusted!
bu_es
Karma: 10,594
Mon, Jun 09I have a thing about not participating in competitions. I like to work on my own pace. And competitions make me nervous.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Mon, Jun 09And I don't even try, cause I know it would be wasted time
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,732
Tue, Jun 10@bu_es
So true - especially the nervousness thing. The daily challenges with my projects are enough for me ... that makes me nervous too
By the way, Luis already has a Quartz badge and a nice comment on my Deviant Art account (but I've only been on DA for 3 days). Let's see if I can promote him together with my next project
So true - especially the nervousness thing. The daily challenges with my projects are enough for me ... that makes me nervous too
By the way, Luis already has a Quartz badge and a nice comment on my Deviant Art account (but I've only been on DA for 3 days). Let's see if I can promote him together with my next project
Off Topic, is it just me, or does OP have a shitton of blank space at the bottom, like ten times longer than the actual post? I had to scroll for like a minute to get past it lol. Could be a browser issue I suppose.
I have no issues with AI art myself. I remember the same hooplah about using any number of tools, like daz studio/poser, photobashing things into a finished work, photoshop filters, hell even using photoshop at one point purists poopooed at some places I hung out at.... Most of these things people stopped complaining about eventually. I think it might be the same way for AI at some point. I been working on training my own personal checkpoint finetune at some time in the future. It's a bit of a pain in the ass to gather a ton of images and then get the training settings to work right. I feel like I will be gathering images for another few months, then it will take years to write the caption part for all those images lmao.
Only AI stuff I would take issue with, is using AI to enhance promos. Maybe I am old school, but I always feel like promo images should be all but raw right out of a render using pretty standard stuff that comes with daz studio. That way the customer can see what is possible with just your product. Only thing I ever do to mine is minor enhancements like a slight level adjustment to try and keep honest about it. I could do a lot of postwork and enhance it to a finished work of art, but that feels like false advertisement to me. Using AI to enhance your promo render feels like the same kinda thing.
That's really my two cents at this time, thanks for reading my tef talk.
I have no issues with AI art myself. I remember the same hooplah about using any number of tools, like daz studio/poser, photobashing things into a finished work, photoshop filters, hell even using photoshop at one point purists poopooed at some places I hung out at.... Most of these things people stopped complaining about eventually. I think it might be the same way for AI at some point. I been working on training my own personal checkpoint finetune at some time in the future. It's a bit of a pain in the ass to gather a ton of images and then get the training settings to work right. I feel like I will be gathering images for another few months, then it will take years to write the caption part for all those images lmao.
Only AI stuff I would take issue with, is using AI to enhance promos. Maybe I am old school, but I always feel like promo images should be all but raw right out of a render using pretty standard stuff that comes with daz studio. That way the customer can see what is possible with just your product. Only thing I ever do to mine is minor enhancements like a slight level adjustment to try and keep honest about it. I could do a lot of postwork and enhance it to a finished work of art, but that feels like false advertisement to me. Using AI to enhance your promo render feels like the same kinda thing.
That's really my two cents at this time, thanks for reading my tef talk.
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! REPORT
FACE APP is an AI driven transformation tool, by definition AI-enhancement.
https://warpvideo.ai/blog/what-is-face-app
Why are all the Face App Ai enhanced manipulated images in the Main Gallery , and not moved to the Ai enhanced gallery?
https://warpvideo.ai/blog/what-is-face-app
Why are all the Face App Ai enhanced manipulated images in the Main Gallery , and not moved to the Ai enhanced gallery?
REPLY
! REPORT
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,732
Tue, Jun 10I agree with you: if it's AI Enhanced, it should be in the AI Gallery. But to be honest: I'm too stupid to recognize that
Could you possibly give a hint? Doesn't have to be the username, but maybe something like " The picture next to the one from XXX " or " The picture below the beautiful landscape, 3rd row from the top " or something like that ?
Could you possibly give a hint? Doesn't have to be the username, but maybe something like " The picture next to the one from XXX " or " The picture below the beautiful landscape, 3rd row from the top " or something like that ?
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Tue, Jun 10He's right and even I used this face thing in daz studio, not thinking about, that it's in fact ai.
Well, nothing I will ever sell *lol* but yes, I think, I should mark it as ai.
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/68713/test-for-david
Well, nothing I will ever sell *lol* but yes, I think, I should mark it as ai.
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/68713/test-for-david
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Tue, Jun 10*err* just a second, I clicked on that link, but it's not about the face transfer in studio, which I used.
But anyhow, I would say, face transfer is ai as well, or am I wrong here?
But anyhow, I would say, face transfer is ai as well, or am I wrong here?
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 36,732
Tue, Jun 10@BM:
Hmmm ... DAZ has a built-in thing called Face Transfer. But I can't imagine that this has anything to do with AI, as this transfer thing has been around for quite a long time. Of course, it could be that new DAZ versions rely on AI ???
Hmmm ... DAZ has a built-in thing called Face Transfer. But I can't imagine that this has anything to do with AI, as this transfer thing has been around for quite a long time. Of course, it could be that new DAZ versions rely on AI ???
JohnnyLuck777
Karma: 4,233
Tue, Jun 10I just checked a bunch of random images here. They all are tagged as AI-Enhanced.
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/faceapp
https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/faceapp
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Tue, Jun 10Well, I really don't know, this face transfer is there since a long time, ai is on the marked for much longer and "reading" a photo and transfer this as a morph and skin on a 3d figure ...
I think we can say for sure, that this is ai.
And Johnny, I clicked some of these render, but, quote: <> isn't helping a lot, when the uploader only shows a result, but not what he/she has worked with.
Ok, FaceApp is AI for sure, now what's about FaceTransfer?
I really would like to know.
I think we can say for sure, that this is ai.
And Johnny, I clicked some of these render, but, quote: <> isn't helping a lot, when the uploader only shows a result, but not what he/she has worked with.
Ok, FaceApp is AI for sure, now what's about FaceTransfer?
I really would like to know.
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Tue, Jun 10Oh this sucks, got the <> where I put the text in, but the text is gone.
That's missing:
Compilation FaceApp and Daz3D Face Transfer
That's missing:
Compilation FaceApp and Daz3D Face Transfer
JohnnyLuck777
Karma: 4,233
Tue, Jun 10Beautiful Misfits - Sorry, I was replying to Tenserknot about FaceApp, which is most certainly generative AI.
Face Transfer is also "AI" - but maybe not so much "generative" - as in "spitting out something entirely new".
From the product page: "Face Transfer 2 is an AI-powered system..."
https://www.daz3d.com/face-transfer-2
Face Transfer is also "AI" - but maybe not so much "generative" - as in "spitting out something entirely new".
From the product page: "Face Transfer 2 is an AI-powered system..."
https://www.daz3d.com/face-transfer-2
Beautiful Misfits
Karma: 16,041
Tue, Jun 10It's ok, cause you "opened" another question, that should be counted in.
daz itself says, FaceTransfer 2 is AI, but it's nothing written about the old FaceTransfer.
So I'm wondering, am I safe with my old version and it's not AI, then I could take my render out there again.
Or is it a grey area and my render has to stay there.
From my way of thinking I would say, either way, both face-scripts are ai, a normal hand written script for a transfer, is that even possible?
daz itself says, FaceTransfer 2 is AI, but it's nothing written about the old FaceTransfer.
So I'm wondering, am I safe with my old version and it's not AI, then I could take my render out there again.
Or is it a grey area and my render has to stay there.
From my way of thinking I would say, either way, both face-scripts are ai, a normal hand written script for a transfer, is that even possible?
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Tue, Jun 10I've go no problem saying who is an example because they reference Face APP right in their image description notes. If you read the comments they mention it a few times.
https://www.renderhub.com/calladsessence/gallery
https://www.renderhub.com/calladsessence/gallery
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Tue, Jun 10Face Transfer is something different, it is a software tool that helps generate a matching face from input data that can then be made into a morph for certain character bases.
Continuing from my post above... Here lies part of the problem.
1. Do people have a problem with *AI tools* that don't generate something new - but assist you in your workflow?
2. Do people have a problem with *AI tools* that don't generate something new - but enhance your existing render?
3. Do people have a problem with *Generative AI* that spits out something entirely new?
I'm pretty sure it's #3 that's the big problem here. And thankfully, RenderHub is not allowing that at all.
1 and 2 are gray areas, but some people lump all these things together as "Bad AI" without thinking about it.
1. Do people have a problem with *AI tools* that don't generate something new - but assist you in your workflow?
2. Do people have a problem with *AI tools* that don't generate something new - but enhance your existing render?
3. Do people have a problem with *Generative AI* that spits out something entirely new?
I'm pretty sure it's #3 that's the big problem here. And thankfully, RenderHub is not allowing that at all.
1 and 2 are gray areas, but some people lump all these things together as "Bad AI" without thinking about it.
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! REPORT
guy91600
Karma: 12,988
Tue, Jun 102. Do people have a problem with *AI tools* that don't generate something new - but enhance your existing render?
Yes, this poses a problem if the image is used to promote a product that is being sold. I think that, out of fairness to customers, the ideal is for promotional images to be solely renderings made by the software for which the product is being sold.
For example,
For a product sold for use with Daz Studio = rendering made with Daz Studio
For a product sold for use with Blender = rendering made with Blender
Yes, this poses a problem if the image is used to promote a product that is being sold. I think that, out of fairness to customers, the ideal is for promotional images to be solely renderings made by the software for which the product is being sold.
For example,
For a product sold for use with Daz Studio = rendering made with Daz Studio
For a product sold for use with Blender = rendering made with Blender
the joker of spades
Karma: 23,067
Tue, Jun 10Honestly I do not agree in all cases a completely different work comes out, lighting, working on the skin etc, are part of a good work, if these parts are done by the software, what is left of yours? Take the example of the post where both works are posted, look at the work released by daz and the improved one, it will take a little while before the 3D part will be skipped
Tenserknot
Karma: 7,291
Tue, Jun 10There is no problem using a topaz tool like gigapixel that upsizes an image and obviously the built in AI fills in the details and corrects sizing artifacts. It's more or less the same picture just cleaner.
THat's different from photo AI enhancing tools that take an average 3D render and relights it, and refines it and changes the smile and the hair and the nose and the location. It is no longer that same mediocre render because every single pixel has been enhanced by the AI. Very different. All of a sudden there is a photorealistic image, but the artist did not do the work to create it. They just fed it into software that did the work. We had a similar discussion in that other thread.
THat's different from photo AI enhancing tools that take an average 3D render and relights it, and refines it and changes the smile and the hair and the nose and the location. It is no longer that same mediocre render because every single pixel has been enhanced by the AI. Very different. All of a sudden there is a photorealistic image, but the artist did not do the work to create it. They just fed it into software that did the work. We had a similar discussion in that other thread.
kwerkx
Karma: 6,151
Tue, Jun 10I am against it if it borrows or steals material without permission to train it's models.. I think it is trash if it is a search ("prompt engineered") resulting in a completed piece.
The other facets of "AI".. tooling (1 & 2) and analysis will likely advance the tools we use.
IMO the "AI" enhanced gallery will eventually rely on self reports, especially as those tools get better. The trick will be getting those creators to self report (perhaps as a "good neighbor" act)
Probably should avoid the blanket "AI".. I mean the next gen graphic cards all use "AI" to boost performance.. like plastics.. "AI" is everywhere.
The other facets of "AI".. tooling (1 & 2) and analysis will likely advance the tools we use.
IMO the "AI" enhanced gallery will eventually rely on self reports, especially as those tools get better. The trick will be getting those creators to self report (perhaps as a "good neighbor" act)
Probably should avoid the blanket "AI".. I mean the next gen graphic cards all use "AI" to boost performance.. like plastics.. "AI" is everywhere.
"Well, I really don't know, this face transfer is there since a long time, ai is on the marked for much longer and "reading" a photo and transfer this as a morph and skin on a 3d figure ...
I think we can say for sure, that this is ai.
And Johnny, I clicked some of these render, but, quote: <> isn't helping a lot, when the uploader only shows a result, but not what he/she has worked with.
Ok, FaceApp is AI for sure, now what's about FaceTransfer?
I really would like to know."
Now we get into the practical absurdity
to trying to purge ALL AI generated content from your life
remember that HUMAN graphic designers and artists
(used to) ,create ALL of your favorite consumer product packing designs as well…will you abandon them??
or are internet galleries the only place to fight this battle??
I think we can say for sure, that this is ai.
And Johnny, I clicked some of these render, but, quote: <> isn't helping a lot, when the uploader only shows a result, but not what he/she has worked with.
Ok, FaceApp is AI for sure, now what's about FaceTransfer?
I really would like to know."
Now we get into the practical absurdity
to trying to purge ALL AI generated content from your life
remember that HUMAN graphic designers and artists
(used to) ,create ALL of your favorite consumer product packing designs as well…will you abandon them??
or are internet galleries the only place to fight this battle??
REPLY
! REPORT
If you're going to allow AI on RenderHub, please at least consider adopting a policy for vendors that at least 1 - 3 of their promo images have to be native renders -- not enhanced by AI. It's misleading; I want to trust what I'm buying is what I'm buying, and I can't do that if I don't know what it *actually* looks like.
Thanks.
Thanks.
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! REPORT
RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 13,933
Thu, Jun 26That's what the policy already says:
"The use of AI in promo images or videos on marketplace items is allowed, as long as they accurately represent the product and are accompanied by non-AI promo images."
https://www.renderhub.com/info/ai-content-policy
Thank you for your feedback.
"The use of AI in promo images or videos on marketplace items is allowed, as long as they accurately represent the product and are accompanied by non-AI promo images."
https://www.renderhub.com/info/ai-content-policy
Thank you for your feedback.
Everwild
Karma: 7,772
Thu, Jun 26Sorry, not trying to create more work for you, but I think some clarification or ways to recognize what is and isn't AI-Enhanced regarding promo pictures might be needed then. Some are pretty easy to spot, but it is getting more difficult. The following is only used as an example, as I feel there may be some confusion. All the promo images for KuraiKya's Nico are showing up under the AI-Enhanced Gallery and it's difficult to tell if they are all enhanced or not. I think maybe a badge that vendors can place on their shops/profiles (like the flags) might be useful for those of us looking for less AI intrusion would also be helpful.
https://www.renderhub.com/kuraikya/niko-g9 (link to the product page) and link to the gallery page: https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/70607/niko -- and again, not trying to drag any one. It just feels like something that needs addressing.
https://www.renderhub.com/kuraikya/niko-g9 (link to the product page) and link to the gallery page: https://www.renderhub.com/gallery/70607/niko -- and again, not trying to drag any one. It just feels like something that needs addressing.
RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 13,933
Thu, Jun 26The system is already in place for that. When vendors upload a product, they are required to disclose if AI was used in their promo images or video. They must select Yes or No. If this vendor did use AI in their promo images, then they are not being truthful.
A properly disclosed product will clearly indicate to the customer that AI was used in the promo images or video.
Here's an example [Nudity Advisory]:
https://www.renderhub.com/lisson4321/anna-j-character-morphs-for-genesis-8-1-female
A properly disclosed product will clearly indicate to the customer that AI was used in the promo images or video.
Here's an example [Nudity Advisory]:
https://www.renderhub.com/lisson4321/anna-j-character-morphs-for-genesis-8-1-female
Everwild
Karma: 7,772
Thu, Jun 26Thank you. I was looking for indications on the individual images and hadn't noticed the notification below the promos. It will be easier now that I know where to look.
