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GLBPoseStudio Open-Source Project Launched
513Thread Activity
Ion13 Hours ago
bu_es19 Hours ago
Everwild19 Hours ago
bu_esThu, Jun 04
EverwildThu, Jun 04
bu_esThu, Jun 04
bu_esThu, Jun 04
ElaDarlingMon, Jun 01
Hey guys,
This is something I have been working on, finally went live...
https://posestudio.org/
https://github.com/PoseStudio/PoseStudio
Looking for contributors to help shape the future of this project!
Feedback welcome
This is something I have been working on, finally went live...
https://posestudio.org/
https://github.com/PoseStudio/PoseStudio
Looking for contributors to help shape the future of this project!
Feedback welcome
! REPORT
Honestly, it sounds great! " Pose and animate characters with intuitive controls and modern IK systems". Yes, please!
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! REPORT
I was really trying to find a way to say this that isn't too pesimistic. I will say it here first, as i don't want that thread first response to be too harsh (at least not by me); but i still need to be blunt:
That is not a Project. Is barely a Wishlist.
It has absolutely nothing to show, there is no corner stone, only things they would like.
And here my thought on the idea. You want an open source Daz/Poser/CC? AWESOME!!!! But just make Blender Addons that do the things that are missing. Why reinvent the wheel? Combine efforts with the tools already at disposal.
That is not a Project. Is barely a Wishlist.
It has absolutely nothing to show, there is no corner stone, only things they would like.
And here my thought on the idea. You want an open source Daz/Poser/CC? AWESOME!!!! But just make Blender Addons that do the things that are missing. Why reinvent the wheel? Combine efforts with the tools already at disposal.
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! REPORT
guy91600
Karma: 18,139
Wed, May 27@Wolf007
Quote: "Why reinvent the wheel?"
The problem with Daz is that it's a flawed wheel, especially the animation, which is awful: arms clipping through the body, rotations starting in one direction and then changing direction, and interpolation that can't be disabled, to name the most striking examples.
So if this project succeeds in creating a smooth-running wheel and is open source, I can only applaud the initiative.
On the other hand, there are examples of open-source projects that are duplicates of proprietary or paid products: OpenOffice, LibreOffice, and GIMP being the most well-known.
Quote: "Why reinvent the wheel?"
The problem with Daz is that it's a flawed wheel, especially the animation, which is awful: arms clipping through the body, rotations starting in one direction and then changing direction, and interpolation that can't be disabled, to name the most striking examples.
So if this project succeeds in creating a smooth-running wheel and is open source, I can only applaud the initiative.
On the other hand, there are examples of open-source projects that are duplicates of proprietary or paid products: OpenOffice, LibreOffice, and GIMP being the most well-known.
Wolf007
Karma: 205
Wed, May 27@guy91600
My bad i wasn't clear. With reinvent the wheel i was refering to Blender. Blender already has lot of what they want by itself or with other addons.
All of that is open source. So i think the project should aim at making Blender Addons to fill the gaps.
-----------
Making a new full program is a titanic endeavor. And without even something concrete already developed, i don't see it possible. It would require a big angel investor; and even if you manage to get one, i would go with Posette suggestion of buying 'Poser'(or another similar) to have a corner stone. If not, then really the Plugins/Addons route has more chances to get something useful out.
My bad i wasn't clear. With reinvent the wheel i was refering to Blender. Blender already has lot of what they want by itself or with other addons.
All of that is open source. So i think the project should aim at making Blender Addons to fill the gaps.
-----------
Making a new full program is a titanic endeavor. And without even something concrete already developed, i don't see it possible. It would require a big angel investor; and even if you manage to get one, i would go with Posette suggestion of buying 'Poser'(or another similar) to have a corner stone. If not, then really the Plugins/Addons route has more chances to get something useful out.
guy91600
Karma: 18,139
Wed, May 27Buying Poser and rebuilding the interface, why not?
But financially, which is the cheapest option?
Starting from scratch, writing the code with a team of volunteers, and controlling everything
or
Buying an existing product, taking ownership of the code, and rebuilding the interfac and equivalent of Daz's transfer utility?
But financially, which is the cheapest option?
Starting from scratch, writing the code with a team of volunteers, and controlling everything
or
Buying an existing product, taking ownership of the code, and rebuilding the interfac and equivalent of Daz's transfer utility?
Wolf007
Karma: 205
Wed, May 27Neither.
The better, cheapest option is make Blender Addons to fill the gaps.
The better, cheapest option is make Blender Addons to fill the gaps.
Ion
Karma: 5,315
Wed, May 27But so many people are not comfortable using Blender, so they would be left out. I don't want this to be something that only blender users can use.
Wolf007
Karma: 205
Wed, May 27Quote: "But so many people are not comfortable using Blender, so they would be left out. I don't want this to be something that only blender users can use."
Just because some people have problems adapting to an App does not mean you have to discard the App when is a really good one:
1- The new hypotetical 'Studio' will not likely be a clone of Daz or Poser or CC, cause then there wouldn't be a need for this project if its just the same. Ergo, the new interface, whatever it ends up being, will obviosly meet with some people that have dificulties adapting.
2- Blender is open source, you can make it more confortable. There are actually forks of blender to make it a lot easier.
3- Even people that have already expresed dificulties using blender have pointed that 'bringing G10 into blender' (i'm paraphrasing, not quoting there) is a much better idea than to continue Daz forward.
4- Part of the work is actually bringing 'Daz like ease of use' into a new aplication. You will have to develope that be it standalone or be it plugin, that is an indispensable feature for both routes. That would clear most of current 'blender rejection'.
Just because some people have problems adapting to an App does not mean you have to discard the App when is a really good one:
1- The new hypotetical 'Studio' will not likely be a clone of Daz or Poser or CC, cause then there wouldn't be a need for this project if its just the same. Ergo, the new interface, whatever it ends up being, will obviosly meet with some people that have dificulties adapting.
2- Blender is open source, you can make it more confortable. There are actually forks of blender to make it a lot easier.
3- Even people that have already expresed dificulties using blender have pointed that 'bringing G10 into blender' (i'm paraphrasing, not quoting there) is a much better idea than to continue Daz forward.
4- Part of the work is actually bringing 'Daz like ease of use' into a new aplication. You will have to develope that be it standalone or be it plugin, that is an indispensable feature for both routes. That would clear most of current 'blender rejection'.
kwerkx
Karma: 8,272
Sun, May 31That’s a pretty complete project roadmap. What do you see as the all-important first iteration: the first design push that leads toward an MVP?
Interesting. My first thought was.. uhm Blender? So, I fed your site into ChatGPT who says you're more focused.. that makes sense, because Blender is all over the place. Suggest you answer that (the elephant in the room) somewhere on your sites in your own terms.
Looking deeper, blender doesn't have a character format; so if you developed a new one, that would be a win for open source. A simpler, well focused tool would also be a big win.
I worry that you won't be able to get out of Blender's shadow. My initial thought is to lean into blender.. software that has some level of compatibility with Blender in terms of plug ins and file formats (possibly even a fork if that was practical). A lightweight version or variant (similar to how flavors of linux exist) feels interesting... But I have NOT put as much thought into this as you. I'll watch this thread and maybe nudge the IRL me to look further.
Looking deeper, blender doesn't have a character format; so if you developed a new one, that would be a win for open source. A simpler, well focused tool would also be a big win.
I worry that you won't be able to get out of Blender's shadow. My initial thought is to lean into blender.. software that has some level of compatibility with Blender in terms of plug ins and file formats (possibly even a fork if that was practical). A lightweight version or variant (similar to how flavors of linux exist) feels interesting... But I have NOT put as much thought into this as you. I'll watch this thread and maybe nudge the IRL me to look further.
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! REPORT
This project is at the very beginning stages, but the plan is to make this a completely stand alone application. As opposed to a blender plugin or something along that route.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,522
Wed, May 27I agree with kwerkx, Blender can be a hugely confusing mess but you don't need most of it to make stuff. I use it occasionally and keep a tool pallet in one corner and ONLY use the common tools. No damn shortcuts and keystrokes. And only a very few plugins. I may be slower but I know where everything I need is.
You can do the same. Place tools in a pallet and ignore all the eleven-teen billion addons and alternate ways of doing things. Studio is pretty intuitive in this regard. Use their render engine. The only thing I suggest is please...oh for cow's sake puh-lease give us draping tool that works well. Dfarce is a farce.
You can do the same. Place tools in a pallet and ignore all the eleven-teen billion addons and alternate ways of doing things. Studio is pretty intuitive in this regard. Use their render engine. The only thing I suggest is please...oh for cow's sake puh-lease give us draping tool that works well. Dfarce is a farce.
Yeah, what Wolf007 said.
It's just a wishlist, nothing more.
Instead of re-inventing Poser, why not make a go-fund-me and try to BUY Poser from Renderosity instead?
THEN make it open source! So everyone could improve it, fork it and re-distribute it.
Heck, I'd happily donate $500 for a version of Poser 11 (the last good one) that does not phone home.
Poser has actually more "creating tech" under the hood than Studio has, including two powerful render engines, so the only thing it really needs is a better figure.
That's the only real chance I see for us 3D "Luddites" to stay relevant a little longer.
I actually don't mind AI in principle.
I'd love to one day see some "lost" Star Trek episodes being recreated by it.
But have no use for it for my own 3d work. I guess I just like making, rigging and sculpting stuff with my own hands way too much.
It's just a wishlist, nothing more.
Instead of re-inventing Poser, why not make a go-fund-me and try to BUY Poser from Renderosity instead?
THEN make it open source! So everyone could improve it, fork it and re-distribute it.
Heck, I'd happily donate $500 for a version of Poser 11 (the last good one) that does not phone home.
Poser has actually more "creating tech" under the hood than Studio has, including two powerful render engines, so the only thing it really needs is a better figure.
That's the only real chance I see for us 3D "Luddites" to stay relevant a little longer.
I actually don't mind AI in principle.
I'd love to one day see some "lost" Star Trek episodes being recreated by it.
But have no use for it for my own 3d work. I guess I just like making, rigging and sculpting stuff with my own hands way too much.
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! REPORT
@Ion, I'm a professional optimist and have already started banging your drum. I even joined your Discord server.
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! REPORT
In the https://www.renderhub.com/forum/14349/daz-genesis-10-figure-share-your-thoughts thread you said, "But so many people are not comfortable using Blender, so they would be left out. I don't want this to be something that only blender users can use".
Honestly, fork blender (the license allows you to conditionally do this) then redesign the UI to be user friendly, strip it down to the features you proposed, and finally build the interfaces for the new character rig and AI features. That way you don't get bogged down in the minutia of render engines etc while you focus on your stated features and goals.
Honestly, fork blender (the license allows you to conditionally do this) then redesign the UI to be user friendly, strip it down to the features you proposed, and finally build the interfaces for the new character rig and AI features. That way you don't get bogged down in the minutia of render engines etc while you focus on your stated features and goals.
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Ion
Karma: 5,315
Wed, May 27Not what I was thinking, but could be the direction we go in.
At the moment we need to build the community, so we have enough people involved to help make this happen.
At the moment we need to build the community, so we have enough people involved to help make this happen.
This is my current Poser 11 workspace:
I don't understand why people find it that abhorrent?
(That's not a render, btw, that's just my OpenGL preview)
I know my way around Studio a bit, but I find it really hard to navigate at times.
Anyway, with Poser being Open Source, we could have as much flavours as we want.
Also don't forget that many people have spent a fortune in 3d assets, mostly V4.
With Poser, all those assets would still be usuable.
With a new app, not sure if that would still be possible, as implementing DAZ figure functionality in another posing app might violate their EULA.
My favorite would be a version that works natively in Linux. I'm still on Windows 10 & 11, but only because Poser is holding me back.
Yes, Blender currently is the gold standard, but it is overwhelming for some old folks like me.
To me Poser is like driving a (vintage) car, while Blender is like flying a fighter jet.
*
Anyway, even if I don't think people are eager to create just another 3D posing app from scratch, I wish you good luck.
I don't understand why people find it that abhorrent?
(That's not a render, btw, that's just my OpenGL preview)
I know my way around Studio a bit, but I find it really hard to navigate at times.
Anyway, with Poser being Open Source, we could have as much flavours as we want.
Also don't forget that many people have spent a fortune in 3d assets, mostly V4.
With Poser, all those assets would still be usuable.
With a new app, not sure if that would still be possible, as implementing DAZ figure functionality in another posing app might violate their EULA.
My favorite would be a version that works natively in Linux. I'm still on Windows 10 & 11, but only because Poser is holding me back.
Yes, Blender currently is the gold standard, but it is overwhelming for some old folks like me.
To me Poser is like driving a (vintage) car, while Blender is like flying a fighter jet.
*
Anyway, even if I don't think people are eager to create just another 3D posing app from scratch, I wish you good luck.
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! REPORT
Sounds interesting, wishing you guys best of luck. I'm going to be very interested in seeing how this plays out
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! REPORT
Not sure if this helps, but I'll tell my better half, he's a programmer, and he's heard me ***more than once*** go bananas over DAZ about this.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,522
Thu, May 28I'm also spreading the word. I have a long time internet friend who lives on some mountain in the Pyrenees and is a brilliant programmer and Studio user. I sent him a bunch of links and hopefully piqued his interest.
As the Barenaked Ladies once sang..."If I had a million dollars..."
As the Barenaked Ladies once sang..."If I had a million dollars..."
Ion
Karma: 5,315
Thu, May 28Thanks Bob, this is exactly what the project needs right now, people spreading the word and building interest.
Ion
Karma: 5,315
Thu, May 28This is great Luxe, let me know if you guys have any questions
Thanks so much for helping spread the word.
Thanks so much for helping spread the word.
BTW: we have our first Patreon supporter!
https://github.com/PoseStudio/PoseStudio/blob/main/FINANCIAL_DISCLOSURE.md
https://github.com/PoseStudio/PoseStudio/blob/main/FINANCIAL_DISCLOSURE.md
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Ion
Karma: 5,315
13 Hours agoThanks so much for supporting the project!
You can see your contribution here: https://github.com/PoseStudio/PoseStudio/blob/main/FINANCIAL_DISCLOSURE.md
You can see your contribution here: https://github.com/PoseStudio/PoseStudio/blob/main/FINANCIAL_DISCLOSURE.md
Our Git Sponsorship account is still being approved, but that should be available soon as well.
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! REPORT
Sounds very promising, I am always good for something new, keeps the wheel turning. The main issues poser and DS have is the external compatibility that makes it for most very difficult if they have just basic knowledge bringing in new Standalone Models. And yes for allot of users Blender can be quiet overwhelming, so the Idea bringing out a Open source in the Poser Ds style might sure be great for new innovative features . The plan might come with a big challenge for creators especially for new standalone models there you sure will need some real pros to offer a good startup base that can be seen !
"Posette"
The mentioned idea to buy Poser would not be a good Idea as already Renderosity is fighting about integrated rights that are not open source, this is the main reason why Poser 11 had to be pulled from the market and public downloads. Certain rights integrations expired! Going for such a deal would be like putting your hand into pot of boiling water ....
"Posette"
The mentioned idea to buy Poser would not be a good Idea as already Renderosity is fighting about integrated rights that are not open source, this is the main reason why Poser 11 had to be pulled from the market and public downloads. Certain rights integrations expired! Going for such a deal would be like putting your hand into pot of boiling water ....
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! REPORT
Just wanted to let everyone know that the very beginnings of the software have been added to the Git repository.
Hello World : It has begun!https://github.com/PoseStudio/PoseStudio
Hello World : It has begun!https://github.com/PoseStudio/PoseStudio
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! REPORT
"Instead of re-inventing Poser, why not make a go-fund-me and try to BUY Poser from Renderosity instead?"
Poser has been successfully reinvented three times:
DAZ Studio, IClone and Meta Human..
Poser lost it since Poser 11 with minimal upgrade value.
Focussing on its Cycles based renderer is just not enough as a version upgrade.
Look at the progress character Creator made during the same time.
99% of current Poser renders I see in the Rendo gallery look like Poser renders from the 90s, earl 2ks.
Poser has become a niche product for Poser nostalgics only.
Just like some guys like to play old Atari games or have their old Amiga computers running.
I like the idea of getting independent from some big players, if it also has the potential to actually make things better.
If I can have realistic characters (and not just some toon or stylized figures with bad rigging) that can compete easily with CC5 or DS, I'd be excited.
I don't need Poser and I don't need a Poser clone.
I really hope all the best for this project.
Here is what I believe to be important for success:
1)Joint bending
Make poses and Joints look realistic easily. No straw bendings or cracking geometry.
2)Export
Make sure figures can easily be migrated to other software like Blender.
3)full anatomy
Yes, this means exactly, what everybody thinks.
It is a selling point.
To me if that wasn't so expensive and hard on computing, I'd even like to have full head to toe anatomy, but that's just me.
I see Poser as a dead horse and I welcome every company or free open source community to make it better.
Poser has been successfully reinvented three times:
DAZ Studio, IClone and Meta Human..
Poser lost it since Poser 11 with minimal upgrade value.
Focussing on its Cycles based renderer is just not enough as a version upgrade.
Look at the progress character Creator made during the same time.
99% of current Poser renders I see in the Rendo gallery look like Poser renders from the 90s, earl 2ks.
Poser has become a niche product for Poser nostalgics only.
Just like some guys like to play old Atari games or have their old Amiga computers running.
I like the idea of getting independent from some big players, if it also has the potential to actually make things better.
If I can have realistic characters (and not just some toon or stylized figures with bad rigging) that can compete easily with CC5 or DS, I'd be excited.
I don't need Poser and I don't need a Poser clone.
I really hope all the best for this project.
Here is what I believe to be important for success:
1)Joint bending
Make poses and Joints look realistic easily. No straw bendings or cracking geometry.
2)Export
Make sure figures can easily be migrated to other software like Blender.
3)full anatomy
Yes, this means exactly, what everybody thinks.
It is a selling point.
To me if that wasn't so expensive and hard on computing, I'd even like to have full head to toe anatomy, but that's just me.
I see Poser as a dead horse and I welcome every company or free open source community to make it better.
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! REPORT
Ion
Karma: 5,315
Mon, Jun 01Poser was such an amazing app, but we are going to take it to the next level. We want to build it from the ground up so the sky is the limit!
@Masterstroke,
*chuckle* I feel that Poser has become a religion and is followed by a small and hysterically loyal congregation. I bought V11 many years ago but gave up after the constant crashes that several updates refused to fix.
I praying to a god that I don't believe in that this project succeeds. Even if it's not perfect, at least it's ours. And yes, FULL anatomy. I love watching the ridiculous knee-jerk reactions and crusades by the morally confused. Aren't they called 'Karens'? Although that's the responsibility of creators making the figures in the first place. I'd rather this project doesn't get bogged down making it's own figures. Allow it to import the HUGE variety of Daz figures already available.
*chuckle* I feel that Poser has become a religion and is followed by a small and hysterically loyal congregation. I bought V11 many years ago but gave up after the constant crashes that several updates refused to fix.
I praying to a god that I don't believe in that this project succeeds. Even if it's not perfect, at least it's ours. And yes, FULL anatomy. I love watching the ridiculous knee-jerk reactions and crusades by the morally confused. Aren't they called 'Karens'? Although that's the responsibility of creators making the figures in the first place. I'd rather this project doesn't get bogged down making it's own figures. Allow it to import the HUGE variety of Daz figures already available.
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! REPORT
I'm working on building out the Discord server for Pose Studio, if anyone wants to join.
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! REPORT
Daz wants to be a monopoly that only sells things for their program, and that's what they're working towards. And I think this initiative is perfect... although I'm not a programmer, I'm already a patron on Patreon to help.
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Maybe cross platform, too? (Specifically compatible with Linux.) If there's room for relative newbies to 3D, I can at least be a crash-test dummy (and mebbe write... things. Organize. Natter. *covers @bu_es eyes* Bitch about AI... I'ma whole host of hepful!)
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bu_es
Karma: 11,510
Thu, Jun 04No, I'm not complaining about AI. I said that AI is a tool and should be used as a tool, not like God. Furthermore, I was heavily criticized for using ICLight in my renders and openly admitting it. And I've been heavily boycotted for it. But that's not the point.
Everwild
Karma: 9,415
19 Hours agoHahah sorry, I was just being silly and hiding your eyes so you wouldn't see me bring AI up yet again. I know you're tired of hearing about it.