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GLBDaz Genesis 10 Figure - Share Your Thoughts
1,867Thread Activity
RenderHubWed, May 27
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DoroThee237Tue, May 26
MasterstrokeTue, May 26
Wolf007Mon, May 25
It's been a while since Genesis 9 was released, and many users have been wondering what might come next.
If Daz 3D releases a Genesis 10 figure for Daz Studio, what would YOU like to see?
Share your thoughts!
If Daz 3D releases a Genesis 10 figure for Daz Studio, what would YOU like to see?
Share your thoughts!
! REPORT
Separate male and female figures to begin with. With their own separate JCMs. A navel...and nipples. Back in the day, DAZ used to release reduced resolution versions of some of their figures alongside the main figure. A reduced resolution version of Genesis 10 alongside the main figure will be a great addition.
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! REPORT
Excessive
Karma: 12,390
Sun, Feb 01yeah the decision to go to the midpoint morph between M and F and the simple rubber hose topology was really bad for content creators. It adds a ton of painstaking extra work that I have no interest whatsoever in doing, no thanks
darkart1
Karma: 2,483
Sat, May 02"Separate male and female figures"
Absolutely! Daz definitely needs to get back to this. I can't stand working with Genesis 9. It's terrible.
Absolutely! Daz definitely needs to get back to this. I can't stand working with Genesis 9. It's terrible.
BAM Creations
Account Closed
Sat, May 02The only ones that wanted this, only made up less than 1% of the DAZ community, and DAZ listened to their ESG/DEI shareholders.
So in reality, this is on DAZ for selling out to BS and it will implode their company. They weren't linked to ESG/DEI when they were developing Gen 2, Gen 3, Gen 8 and even Gen 8.1. It wasn't till this BS being pushed during OBAMA is when things started happening.
NO ONE wants this shit. TRANSHUMANISM is CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY! I don't give an F what any person says who is saying thing like "i'm a bigot" or "you're a mysogynist". NO! I'm using COMMON F'ing SENSE!
You are born a MALE OR FEMALE! FULL STOP! Only ones pushing this crap is the SATANIC CABAL who owns things like BLACKROCK who push ESG/DEI.
People need to wake up. They are doing this to destroy companies so that we, "Own Nothing, and be Happy"...*mic drop*
So in reality, this is on DAZ for selling out to BS and it will implode their company. They weren't linked to ESG/DEI when they were developing Gen 2, Gen 3, Gen 8 and even Gen 8.1. It wasn't till this BS being pushed during OBAMA is when things started happening.
NO ONE wants this shit. TRANSHUMANISM is CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY! I don't give an F what any person says who is saying thing like "i'm a bigot" or "you're a mysogynist". NO! I'm using COMMON F'ing SENSE!
You are born a MALE OR FEMALE! FULL STOP! Only ones pushing this crap is the SATANIC CABAL who owns things like BLACKROCK who push ESG/DEI.
People need to wake up. They are doing this to destroy companies so that we, "Own Nothing, and be Happy"...*mic drop*
At a minimum, I think one separate Genesis 10 Female and one separate Genesis 10 Male are required.
A texture that doesn't require an exorbitantly priced graphics card to render in a reasonable amount of time.
----------------
Au minimum un Genesis 10 Female et un Genesis 10 Male distinct je pense que c'est le minimum.
Une texture qui ne demande pas une carte graphique à un prix exorbitant pour avoir un rendu en un temps acceptable
A texture that doesn't require an exorbitantly priced graphics card to render in a reasonable amount of time.
----------------
Au minimum un Genesis 10 Female et un Genesis 10 Male distinct je pense que c'est le minimum.
Une texture qui ne demande pas une carte graphique à un prix exorbitant pour avoir un rendu en un temps acceptable
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! REPORT
Excessive
Karma: 12,390
Sun, Feb 01the 4k and sometimes 8k textures were just ridiculous to make the default, yeah.
diogenese19348
Karma: 490
Sun, May 17I think the 8K textures are in the vain pursuit of "photo-real" human renders. Ain't never going to happen no matter how much hardware gets thrown at it. I don't think 3D technology can handle phot-real renders of organic objects. Manufactured ones with regular surfaces yeah, no problem, but not organic.
Gen 10 should be more flexible and not stiff-feeling. Genesis 8 is my favorite because of this, albeit Daz Studio feels very dated with posing regardless.
(which is funny coming from me who has used Garry's Mod/Source Engine for years lol)
(which is funny coming from me who has used Garry's Mod/Source Engine for years lol)
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Another thing I just thought of: a separate material zone for the lips! A small thing that goes a long way!
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evarest
Karma: 259
Sun, Feb 01https://www.daz3d.com/lip-service-for-genesis-9
In the meanwhile you have this product, its a geograft for the lips.
In the meanwhile you have this product, its a geograft for the lips.
Maybe it's because I am old(er) and my idea of time has changed, but G9 still feels brand new to me.
Too early to think of G10.
On the other hand, I'd wish for a G10 to fix pretty much everything, but according to my life experience, it won't.
-No magic weight mapping bones will make JCMs obsolete.
-No magic mesh layout will make JCMs obsolete.
-No soft dynamics mimicing body tissues on G10 figures.
-No additional bones on spines will give more flexability.
-No FACT expression sets for all characters fit perfect.
-No HD morphing for everyone on G10 characters.
All that I already hoped for G9.
G10 will have changes for the sake of doing something different, but without any real improvements.
Too early to think of G10.
On the other hand, I'd wish for a G10 to fix pretty much everything, but according to my life experience, it won't.
-No magic weight mapping bones will make JCMs obsolete.
-No magic mesh layout will make JCMs obsolete.
-No soft dynamics mimicing body tissues on G10 figures.
-No additional bones on spines will give more flexability.
-No FACT expression sets for all characters fit perfect.
-No HD morphing for everyone on G10 characters.
All that I already hoped for G9.
G10 will have changes for the sake of doing something different, but without any real improvements.
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Bejaymac
Karma: 118
Tue, Feb 03It might happen, but you would need character creaters to change their workflows, most still think they are making content for V4/Genesis, and just haven't adapted to the massive changes in how the figures now work.
Let's take the FACS system, the bones need to be in an optimised position in the new morphed shape, if they aren't you get "uncanny valley" expressions, haven't found anyone that fine tunes the bones, they just hit "adjust rigging to shape" and think that's them done, all that get's them are bones that are now in a generalised position, which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
Let's take the FACS system, the bones need to be in an optimised position in the new morphed shape, if they aren't you get "uncanny valley" expressions, haven't found anyone that fine tunes the bones, they just hit "adjust rigging to shape" and think that's them done, all that get's them are bones that are now in a generalised position, which is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.
GrapeJuice3D
Karma: 18,256
Mon, May 04I agree with Masterstroke, I think it's too soon for a G10. Personally I think that G9 is still a new model, we don't even have much clothes,poses or hair for it yet, if we just "jump" to a G10 it can be a bad idea.
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! REPORT
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,283
Sun, Feb 01Looks like no automatic JCMs available, as it is common in DAZ Studio and even in Poser for more than 10 years.
This is a huge deal breaker for me.
This is a huge deal breaker for me.
Arodia
Karma: 8,518
Sun, Feb 01By automatic JCMs, do you mean the JMCs that get activated when you dial in a new shape and are dependent on that shape only?
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,283
Sun, Feb 01Yes, you just bend the forearm and the biceps bulges, or some messy joint shapes are corrected.
Depends on what has been set up.
Depends on what has been set up.
Arodia
Karma: 8,518
Sun, Feb 01That is indeed much needed feature for any figure. Especially for a unisex figure.
yvesab
Karma: 130
Wed, May 13It's really interesting. the 3d assets prices are on par with the inflating Daz products and they seems much more realistic.
BUT my main use is nsfw pictures : I rely on renderhub and 'rotica a lot.
I'm not certain these professional products are ready for this.
There are probably some specialized sites for this kind of things, it's hard to find !
BUT my main use is nsfw pictures : I rely on renderhub and 'rotica a lot.
I'm not certain these professional products are ready for this.
There are probably some specialized sites for this kind of things, it's hard to find !
I find it interesting that Daz will not even allow a speculative discussion on a potential Genesis 10 figure on their forums.
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/754716/genesis-10
Just my opinion , but given its typical use case, I believe that Daz figure technology has long ago hit a technological plateau, with G9 being
a bit of a step backwards IMHO.
Here, in 2026, the overwhelming majority of the Daz studio user base uses the Daz Genesis models to create.
Still image renders using the NVIDIA Iray render engine.
For that limited end goal, I'm having a hard time imagining what else people think they would need in a Daz Genesis figure operating inside Daz studio rendering with Iray.
Obviously as a retired hobbyist animated filmmaker, my suggestion would be to Add a proper human Ik animation control rig So that people can use their Daz studio to make 3D animated films.
However to make that a worthwhile endeavor one would have to completely overhaul the animation system of daz studio itself for which there is little to zero actual demand from the user base, as those of them who were actually serious about animating have long since moved on to Blender, cascadeur or…. AI
https://www.daz3d.com/forums/discussion/754716/genesis-10
Just my opinion , but given its typical use case, I believe that Daz figure technology has long ago hit a technological plateau, with G9 being
a bit of a step backwards IMHO.
Here, in 2026, the overwhelming majority of the Daz studio user base uses the Daz Genesis models to create.
Still image renders using the NVIDIA Iray render engine.
For that limited end goal, I'm having a hard time imagining what else people think they would need in a Daz Genesis figure operating inside Daz studio rendering with Iray.
Obviously as a retired hobbyist animated filmmaker, my suggestion would be to Add a proper human Ik animation control rig So that people can use their Daz studio to make 3D animated films.
However to make that a worthwhile endeavor one would have to completely overhaul the animation system of daz studio itself for which there is little to zero actual demand from the user base, as those of them who were actually serious about animating have long since moved on to Blender, cascadeur or…. AI
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! REPORT
Thay lost me at G9, G10 wont matter. im off the train. I just stick around out of habit, at this point
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Bobb
Karma: 1,522
Sun, Feb 01Wasn't there a poll here a few months ago asking about figure use?
I'm sure that the overwhelming majority indicated Gee-Ate as their figure of choice.
I'm sure that the overwhelming majority indicated Gee-Ate as their figure of choice.
Foxy 3D
Admin: 58,740
Mon, Feb 02@Bobb - Yes, there sure was!
https://www.renderhub.com/blog/which-genesis-version-is-best
FYI - If anyone is ever interested in the results of previous polls, there's a section for that in the blog.
https://www.renderhub.com/blog/polls
https://www.renderhub.com/blog/which-genesis-version-is-best
FYI - If anyone is ever interested in the results of previous polls, there's a section for that in the blog.
https://www.renderhub.com/blog/polls
Trying to push a new figure while their business model is burning down around their ears is like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Of course, it's also exactly what DAZ would do -- they've never missed an opportunity to do exactly the wrong thing when it matters the most.
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Katsuyaki
Karma: 3,127
Fri, May 15I think you're right. No one wants to pay for an entirely new set of content -- characters, clothing, hair, poses, morphs, etc. -- even at the best of times. And right now is definitely not the best of times for traditional 3D.
I'm willing to give it a chance, but at this point, how interested or ready is Daz from ditching G9 in favor of a new and shiny G10? Also, weren't they slowly entering the wide world of AI? Is G10 going be AI?
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! REPORT
BAM Creations
Account Closed
Sat, May 02Oh if it's AI, DAZ is toast.
Literally will go BELLY UP...
Literally will go BELLY UP...
Ideally, I would like an abstract gX. Not a figure per se but a set of clones and bridges to unify all of the Genesis figures such that all characters, all clothes, all poses, all expressions, and (ideally) all geo graphs were forward and backwards compatible. "Universal compatibility" between 3, 8, 8.1, and 9 at minimum. And I'm not talking about a patchwork of click and wait scripts, I want a clean workflow where I can just add the figure, pose, and expression based on artistic not technical requirements. That's what I'd like to see.
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! REPORT
They need to open up HD morphs for everyone, not just for a selected few. If they do that, there will be a DAZ boom for more than a few years to come. There would be no need for those unpleasant tier-locked subscriptions or generation incompatibility. There is no need for yet another generation. I know there is controversy around Genesis 9, and depending on which side you are on, you might see the reflection of that. But to me, it is just clay, completely non-ideological and artificially limited, but simply that, a clump of clay.
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! REPORT
guy91600
Karma: 18,139
Tue, Feb 03The problem is that not everyone knows how to work with a lump of clay. It's a craft; not just anyone can be a potter!
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,426
Tue, Feb 03Thank you, Guy. You are right about that.
However, the main point I was trying to make is that the figure itself, as well as the multi-rez technology, which is not DAZ proprietary technology (Catmull-Clark subdivision), otherwise you would not be able to subdivide geometry with the exact same face count in Blender, should not be locked for import. Injecting higher resolution mesh is used all across the industry (LOD), etc. The only thing proprietary is their ecosystem and how it stores the data, and how internally choses to inject the morphs, etc.
It does not need a new design or vertex count (meaning Genesis 8/9 it wouldn't matter). If they get rid of that, and obviously their predatory policy of locking down artists for exclusivity, not only will their market boom, but all other markets, including RenderHub, will as well. Plenty of people would sell across markets, and their vendors would also come here to sell their products. It would be a win-win for everyone.
However, the main point I was trying to make is that the figure itself, as well as the multi-rez technology, which is not DAZ proprietary technology (Catmull-Clark subdivision), otherwise you would not be able to subdivide geometry with the exact same face count in Blender, should not be locked for import. Injecting higher resolution mesh is used all across the industry (LOD), etc. The only thing proprietary is their ecosystem and how it stores the data, and how internally choses to inject the morphs, etc.
It does not need a new design or vertex count (meaning Genesis 8/9 it wouldn't matter). If they get rid of that, and obviously their predatory policy of locking down artists for exclusivity, not only will their market boom, but all other markets, including RenderHub, will as well. Plenty of people would sell across markets, and their vendors would also come here to sell their products. It would be a win-win for everyone.
BAM Creations
Account Closed
Sat, May 02Gen 9 was a DISASTER. It is only good for PORTRAIT renders. THAT IS IT!?
Only ones doing NON PORTRAIT renders, and I am going to put it MILDLY, doing renders that are str8 up PROMOTING TRANSHUMANISM, are the less than 1% of this community that have MENTAL ILLNESS. And they don't like it when they get called that by the way, but it is the truth.
This model was PURE PROPAGANDA and INDOCTRINATION, and it FAILED FACE FLAT in their Shareholders faces....
Only ones doing NON PORTRAIT renders, and I am going to put it MILDLY, doing renders that are str8 up PROMOTING TRANSHUMANISM, are the less than 1% of this community that have MENTAL ILLNESS. And they don't like it when they get called that by the way, but it is the truth.
This model was PURE PROPAGANDA and INDOCTRINATION, and it FAILED FACE FLAT in their Shareholders faces....
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,426
Sat, May 02I'm not sure that was the intent. If it was, it is still their proprietary product. Having said that, male and female anatomical differences beyond their genitals and bone structure do not matter as much within the bundle of very fixed quads that G9 has. So if that was the purpose, a 3D model was an odd choice to make socio-political statements. In other words, a very dumb choice.
Then again, I do not think that is the case, and everyone is free to see in the DAZ models whatever they want to see. For me, they are just a fictional bundle of vertices I can shape in Blender and produce very nice boys and girls of all shapes, age and sizes.
Then again, I do not think that is the case, and everyone is free to see in the DAZ models whatever they want to see. For me, they are just a fictional bundle of vertices I can shape in Blender and produce very nice boys and girls of all shapes, age and sizes.
Excessive
Karma: 12,390
Mon, May 04@gohanf22 "Only ones doing NON PORTRAIT renders, and I am going to put it MILDLY, doing renders that are str8 up PROMOTING TRANSHUMANISM, are the less than 1% of this community that have MENTAL ILLNESS. And they don't like it when they get called that by the way, but it is the truth."
is it possible for freaks like you to just keep your weird politics unspoken
is it possible for freaks like you to just keep your weird politics unspoken
thirdeyezennicai
Karma: 25,992
Mon, May 04Gohan acting like he's above the things he complains about when he posts women with abnormally large tits is the craziest nonsense I've ever seen. He really should have let the art speak for him lmao
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,426
Mon, May 04I could also sculpt Genesis 9, without deleting or adding vertices / edges, into a refrigerator. I wonder if that's something they'll complain about too, hi, hi, hi
guy91600
Karma: 18,139
Mon, May 04@Luxe
Yes, a G9 morph as a combined fridge-freezer with opening doors is a good idea!
Yes, a G9 morph as a combined fridge-freezer with opening doors is a good idea!
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,426
Mon, May 04Hi, hi, hi. The worst part is, Guy, my gears haven't stopped thinking about it since I made the silly joke.
guy91600
Karma: 18,139
Mon, May 04That's an interesting challenge for a contest!
Create a G9 morph into furniture (fridge, bed, chair...)
that's left is to submit it to the administrators
Create a G9 morph into furniture (fridge, bed, chair...)
that's left is to submit it to the administrators
Quote:They need to open up HD morphs for everyone, not just for a selected few. If they do that, there will be a DAZ boom for more than a few years to come.
The proprietary HD Morph technology, that Daz restricts to their published artists, is a way of maintaining artificial scarcity in the Daz content market.
Releasing the HD morph tool to everyone would create a flood of third party HD Morphs sold elsewhere, to compete directly with the Daz store and devalue the HD morph technology because of excess abundance.
Daz is desperately clinging to the few "innovations "that they feel have left regarding their figure technology.
And this is understandable as the original long term (publicly stated) plan for the Genesis figure platform was to be a "universal high quality character resource for the entire 3D/CG industry "and in that regard, they have failed miserably.
And not so much because their solutions were bad.
It's because they did not understand the power of entrenched habits and the ecosystem pipeline comfort bubbles of the various external markets they were trying to penetrate.
Tafi, the parent company of Daz, has tried almost everything to get their figure technology into other markets.
Video game content as Unity install package files: failed.
The Metaverse: Well, we all know how that has turned out.
NFTs: well we all know how that turned out.
A lame, bare bones, onsite AI image generator ,trained on Daz content,to try to compete with
midjourney etc. to keep the faithful on the Plantation: failed (Shutdown last year.)
"Bridge/export" plugins for the major 3DCC's Such as Maya,Cinema4D and Blender.
Overwhelmingly ignored by those user bases.
So IMHO, pushing out another new figure base with a few poo-ware ornamental changes and calling it "Genesis 10"
is not going to improve Daz's fading relevance in the slightest.
The proprietary HD Morph technology, that Daz restricts to their published artists, is a way of maintaining artificial scarcity in the Daz content market.
Releasing the HD morph tool to everyone would create a flood of third party HD Morphs sold elsewhere, to compete directly with the Daz store and devalue the HD morph technology because of excess abundance.
Daz is desperately clinging to the few "innovations "that they feel have left regarding their figure technology.
And this is understandable as the original long term (publicly stated) plan for the Genesis figure platform was to be a "universal high quality character resource for the entire 3D/CG industry "and in that regard, they have failed miserably.
And not so much because their solutions were bad.
It's because they did not understand the power of entrenched habits and the ecosystem pipeline comfort bubbles of the various external markets they were trying to penetrate.
Tafi, the parent company of Daz, has tried almost everything to get their figure technology into other markets.
Video game content as Unity install package files: failed.
The Metaverse: Well, we all know how that has turned out.
NFTs: well we all know how that turned out.
A lame, bare bones, onsite AI image generator ,trained on Daz content,to try to compete with
midjourney etc. to keep the faithful on the Plantation: failed (Shutdown last year.)
"Bridge/export" plugins for the major 3DCC's Such as Maya,Cinema4D and Blender.
Overwhelmingly ignored by those user bases.
So IMHO, pushing out another new figure base with a few poo-ware ornamental changes and calling it "Genesis 10"
is not going to improve Daz's fading relevance in the slightest.
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! REPORT
Absolutely don't care what daz does at this point. cling to old outdated tech at this point. the entire world has moved on, except for those poor few hanging aorund.
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Masterstroke
Karma: 5,283
Sat, May 02That's exactly the same thing, that killed Poser.
DAZ should know better.
DAZ should know better.
Tenserknot
Karma: 9,454
Sat, May 02That lesson was learned by company executives back in 2014-2016, but those guys aren't in the company anymore, , the ones running it now knos nothing about Poser's past. or even Daz Studio's past.
the guys running it now thought NFTs were a good idea
the guys running it now thought NFTs were a good idea
BAM Creations
Account Closed
Sat, May 02I can't argue on that. Problem is we also have AI killing our way we do things as Artsits. DAZ is promoting that bs too...
If they are smart, they will CUT TIES with whatever ESG/DEI shareholders is pulling their strings, cause they do have one, go back to being ON THEIR OWN again, invest in lot of their money over the years BACK into the software so it can RUN GOOD for F'ing once, and stop PROMOTING THIS BS that only a small VOCAL MINORITY will bitch about that you are not supporting their MENTAL ILLNESS?!
Poser isn't pushing Trans Narrative crap and they continue to do fine. So why the F is DAZ doing it....
If they are smart, they will CUT TIES with whatever ESG/DEI shareholders is pulling their strings, cause they do have one, go back to being ON THEIR OWN again, invest in lot of their money over the years BACK into the software so it can RUN GOOD for F'ing once, and stop PROMOTING THIS BS that only a small VOCAL MINORITY will bitch about that you are not supporting their MENTAL ILLNESS?!
Poser isn't pushing Trans Narrative crap and they continue to do fine. So why the F is DAZ doing it....
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,283
Sat, May 02"ESG/DEI shareholders" ?!
what?!
"Trans Narrative crap" ?!
Someone is fighting wind mills.
what?!
"Trans Narrative crap" ?!
Someone is fighting wind mills.
BAM Creations
Account Closed
Sat, May 02I'm not arguing with a person who has been seen in Rendo Forums and even DAZ FORUMS defending Gen 9. And here you are acting like you are on OUR SIDE saying "Oh yeah we need separate meshes". Do i sense a sense of DAMAGE CONTROL on your part?
Every artist that promotes TRANSHUMANISM or DEFENDS IT, deserves NO PITY from me or support.
Get blocked.
Every artist that promotes TRANSHUMANISM or DEFENDS IT, deserves NO PITY from me or support.
Get blocked.
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,283
Sun, May 03Quote:
"I'm not arguing with..."
Excellent idea, let's leave it like that.
"I'm not arguing with..."
Excellent idea, let's leave it like that.
evarest
Karma: 259
Mon, May 04Hey gohanf22 my dear it seems like you’re really frustrated right now, you have full access to the internet where you can find multiple lengths of ropes for sale, so it may be refreshing for you to do that instead of venting here, and maybe take a step back and give yourself a moment to cool off..
Why don't you take a deep breath and go give yourself the treatments you want for others? It might help to come back to the discussion when you’re feeling a bit calmer <3
Why don't you take a deep breath and go give yourself the treatments you want for others? It might help to come back to the discussion when you’re feeling a bit calmer <3
BAM CreationsSat, May 02
Account Closed
If it's not Separate meshes like Gen 3, Gen 8 and have FULL COMPATIBILTY with those 2 Gens for conversions, it is OVER for DAZ...
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All I can really think of that I would see as an upgrade worthy of the name would be, basically Genesis 8.1, but now with better rigging for extremely exaggerated figures that doesn't break at the hip and such.
Also, some kind of real full body physics that allow some squish and wiggle without relying on morphs fit to specific items of clothing.
And of course, knock it off with the flailing desperation to have all male and female morphs in a single figure as in Genesis 9. I won't sit here and tell you I haven't picked up any G9 addons; of course I have. It just causes more problems than it solves as for as I can see or care about.
Also, some method of backwards compatibility with previous Genesis generations, and even pre-Genesis generations like 4. And no enshittified subscription nonsense.
Also, some kind of real full body physics that allow some squish and wiggle without relying on morphs fit to specific items of clothing.
And of course, knock it off with the flailing desperation to have all male and female morphs in a single figure as in Genesis 9. I won't sit here and tell you I haven't picked up any G9 addons; of course I have. It just causes more problems than it solves as for as I can see or care about.
Also, some method of backwards compatibility with previous Genesis generations, and even pre-Genesis generations like 4. And no enshittified subscription nonsense.
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BAM Creations
Account Closed
Sat, May 02I couldn't agree more.
Let's hope DAZ wakes up to realization that less than 1% of people that have Mental Illness won't be enough to pay for the bills....
Let's hope DAZ wakes up to realization that less than 1% of people that have Mental Illness won't be enough to pay for the bills....
Bobb
Karma: 1,522
Sat, May 02And your continued, hysterical, misguided rant against depictions of trans characters is based upon your advanced degree in embryology?
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,283
Sun, May 03@brothervirgil
I agree on almost everything, except the backward compability.
Those changes would break backward compability and that is a good thing.
G9 suffers the same problem, Victoria 4 suffered from.
G9 is obviously a Meta human rip of, where it is all about the facial features.
Victoria 4 used to have the same problem. Perfect for portraits, but full body shots are a PITA.
V4 is my least liked figure at all, for it damaged the whole 3d figure ecosystem and G9 has the potential to do the same.
the sooner we get over G9, the better.
The worst case scenario would be vendors having G9 only content in 10 years time.
Backward compability and new riggings and "full body physics" won't go together.
Either one or the other. I am full in for progress.
After all clinging to backward compability has been one of the coffin nails for Poser.
DAZ should not repeat that mistake, but it looks like, they're to blind to see it.
Meanwhile Reallusion is popping corks left and right.
I agree on almost everything, except the backward compability.
Those changes would break backward compability and that is a good thing.
G9 suffers the same problem, Victoria 4 suffered from.
G9 is obviously a Meta human rip of, where it is all about the facial features.
Victoria 4 used to have the same problem. Perfect for portraits, but full body shots are a PITA.
V4 is my least liked figure at all, for it damaged the whole 3d figure ecosystem and G9 has the potential to do the same.
the sooner we get over G9, the better.
The worst case scenario would be vendors having G9 only content in 10 years time.
Backward compability and new riggings and "full body physics" won't go together.
Either one or the other. I am full in for progress.
After all clinging to backward compability has been one of the coffin nails for Poser.
DAZ should not repeat that mistake, but it looks like, they're to blind to see it.
Meanwhile Reallusion is popping corks left and right.
brothervirgil
Karma: 342
Sun, May 03@Masterstroke
Valid points. While forward progress to figures rigged for exaggeration and full body physics takes priority, I would still consider backward compatibility to be "nice to have". Maybe the subject for some kind of optional addon. Keeping the things we want on radar is the first step to someone out-thinking whatever today's technical limitations might be
Valid points. While forward progress to figures rigged for exaggeration and full body physics takes priority, I would still consider backward compatibility to be "nice to have". Maybe the subject for some kind of optional addon. Keeping the things we want on radar is the first step to someone out-thinking whatever today's technical limitations might be
One other point I'd like to make is that as long as the whole rental-ware concept is in play, it doesn't matter how cool a hypothetical Genesis 10 figure is, I won't be buying it or any assets for it.
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Pushee-Ri
Karma: 49,347
Sun, May 03You've nailed it!
I don't mind paying a one-time fee for good software, and if I don't have enough money, I'll just have to save up. But this ridiculous idea of renting software is totally out of line! Even if the software is really good... I'm staying away from it.
I don't mind paying a one-time fee for good software, and if I don't have enough money, I'll just have to save up. But this ridiculous idea of renting software is totally out of line! Even if the software is really good... I'm staying away from it.
DoroThee237
Karma: 17,331
Sun, May 03I don't think Daz's managers are stupid enough to charge for Genesis 10 or only offer it as an AI subscription on their site
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Je ne pense pas que les gestionnaires de Daz soient suffisamment imbécile pour faire payer Genesis 10 ou ne le propose qu'en version IA sur abonnement sur leur site
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Je ne pense pas que les gestionnaires de Daz soient suffisamment imbécile pour faire payer Genesis 10 ou ne le propose qu'en version IA sur abonnement sur leur site
Katsuyaki
Karma: 3,127
Mon, May 04Well, if history is anything to go by, DAZ would probably release the base figure for free, same as they did with all of their other figures. And remember that during the Encryption Wars, NONE of their original characters or their bundles were encrypted, probably because they knew that no one would have bought them if they had. So I'm fairly confident that they wouldn't be stupid enough to make any Genesis 10 characters rental-ware, precisely so as not to scare off any much-needed sales. I just absolutely hate the concept of paying a subscription for access to software, software features, or content in general, so until things change, DAZ doesn't get a dime from me.
I genuinely don't believe G10 will ever turn up. What we'll get is G9.1 as 2 separate figures and then that's it. Most of the people who use Studio are hobby artists (myself included). A large percentage of commercial artists have moved over to programs like Blender or have gone over to high end AI programs, just using studio to create things like character cards.
Creating G10 as two separate figures - and upgrading it from G9 - would require Daz to start from scratch and the Tafi shareholders wouldn't like that as it would bite into their profit margin (small as it probably is) time wise.
I think this is the main reason that discussing G10 in the Daz forums is "forbidden". Not because they are worried about giving away any secrets or clues but because they don't want to admit it wont happen.
They really need to focus on making Studio work properly but, as its a free program, they only way they would be able justify it to Tafi is by either making it a purchasable program or going down the "rent a software" route which is what the Premier membership is laying the ground work for (and is more profitable).
I really want to be able to make animations - that's why I got involved with 3D art in the first place. Studio is still useless for that and the learning curve for Blender is so high I'll be dead of old age before I master it.
This is why I'm looking at shifting to High End AI - create key frames in Studio then put them together in AI to create animations. Considering the amount of money I spend in Daz each month (way too much but then I'm a sucker for a sale) I would be better off financially taking out subscriptions to a handful of AI systems and using them. I have already amassed a large library of assets - I really don't need to buy any more and would probably get more use out of my G3/8 figures than I do now.
G10 will become the CGI unicorn - lots of people will talk about it, some will believe it exists, but nobody will have actually seen it.
Creating G10 as two separate figures - and upgrading it from G9 - would require Daz to start from scratch and the Tafi shareholders wouldn't like that as it would bite into their profit margin (small as it probably is) time wise.
I think this is the main reason that discussing G10 in the Daz forums is "forbidden". Not because they are worried about giving away any secrets or clues but because they don't want to admit it wont happen.
They really need to focus on making Studio work properly but, as its a free program, they only way they would be able justify it to Tafi is by either making it a purchasable program or going down the "rent a software" route which is what the Premier membership is laying the ground work for (and is more profitable).
I really want to be able to make animations - that's why I got involved with 3D art in the first place. Studio is still useless for that and the learning curve for Blender is so high I'll be dead of old age before I master it.
This is why I'm looking at shifting to High End AI - create key frames in Studio then put them together in AI to create animations. Considering the amount of money I spend in Daz each month (way too much but then I'm a sucker for a sale) I would be better off financially taking out subscriptions to a handful of AI systems and using them. I have already amassed a large library of assets - I really don't need to buy any more and would probably get more use out of my G3/8 figures than I do now.
G10 will become the CGI unicorn - lots of people will talk about it, some will believe it exists, but nobody will have actually seen it.
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Masterstroke
Karma: 5,283
Sun, May 03Quote:
"Most of the people who use Studio are hobby artists (myself included)"
Once customers are labeled as "hobbyists", they get the crumbs, that fell under the table.
Quote:
"Creating G10 as two separate figures - and upgrading it from G9 - would require Daz to start from scratch and the Tafi shareholders wouldn't like that as it would bite into their profit margin (small as it probably is) time wise."
I don't care, if they have to start from the scratch. Quite the opposite: That's exactly, what I expect them to do, as a sign of respect towards their customers, who spend thousands of bucks each year on their marketplace.
Quote:
"I think this is the main reason that discussing G10 in the Daz forums is "forbidden". Not because they are worried about giving away any secrets or clues but because they don't want to admit it wont happen."
Another cork just popped at Reallusion.
Quote:
"This is why I'm looking at shifting to High End AI - ..."
Let's not start this again. It will only get heated.
"Most of the people who use Studio are hobby artists (myself included)"
Once customers are labeled as "hobbyists", they get the crumbs, that fell under the table.
Quote:
"Creating G10 as two separate figures - and upgrading it from G9 - would require Daz to start from scratch and the Tafi shareholders wouldn't like that as it would bite into their profit margin (small as it probably is) time wise."
I don't care, if they have to start from the scratch. Quite the opposite: That's exactly, what I expect them to do, as a sign of respect towards their customers, who spend thousands of bucks each year on their marketplace.
Quote:
"I think this is the main reason that discussing G10 in the Daz forums is "forbidden". Not because they are worried about giving away any secrets or clues but because they don't want to admit it wont happen."
Another cork just popped at Reallusion.
Quote:
"This is why I'm looking at shifting to High End AI - ..."
Let's not start this again. It will only get heated.
Katsuyaki
Karma: 3,127
Mon, May 04I think DAZ is kind of in the position now that Poser was in prior to its sale to Renderosity: superior technology owned by competitors outpacing its own capabilities, declining relevancy and marketability, and no clear path ahead. I think Tafi is just trying to hold out for as long as it can, praying for some kind of miracle, like the A.I. bubble bursting and its user base to come flooding back, or for someone to make a bid and take the whole sorry mess off of its hands. In that situation, I think they'll just keep polishing Genesis 9 until the very end, 'cause in the age of rapidly improving A.I., investing all of that time and effort into creating and marketing a hypothetical Genesis 10 doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
yvesab
Karma: 130
Wed, May 13Let's bet on a Gen9.1
I'm ageing. I even used Poser 3 !
Anyway I'm ready to jump to another platform, even if I spent a lot on Daz products, provided prices are reasonable and the figures are equipped with whole realistic anatomy for both females and males.
I'm ageing. I even used Poser 3 !
Anyway I'm ready to jump to another platform, even if I spent a lot on Daz products, provided prices are reasonable and the figures are equipped with whole realistic anatomy for both females and males.
Katsuyaki
Karma: 3,127
Wed, May 13I started out on Poser 7, thought Poser 8 was trash, and bailed after Poser 10, 'cause I think it was Poser 11 that introduced the concept of "must phone home periodically or I lock you out of the application".
As much as I hate to admit it, if you're going to switch to anything, I'd suggest going A.I. I'm not doing it -- I absolutely refuse to become someone's subscriber to be able to access software, software features, or content -- but the things I see people doing with it are simply incredible, and it's only going to get better.
As much as I hate to admit it, if you're going to switch to anything, I'd suggest going A.I. I'm not doing it -- I absolutely refuse to become someone's subscriber to be able to access software, software features, or content -- but the things I see people doing with it are simply incredible, and it's only going to get better.
Quote:I really want to be able to make animations - that's why I got involved with 3D art in the first place. Studio is still useless for that and the learning curve for Blender is so high I'll be dead of old age before I master it.
This is why I'm looking at shifting to High End AI - create key frames in Studio then put them together in AI to create animations. Considering the amount of money I spend in Daz each month (way too much but then I'm a sucker for a sale) I would be better off financially taking out subscriptions to a handful of AI systems and using them.
If you are regularly spending at least $30 a month on Daz content ,or something like that Ridiculous premier subscription for Daz studio., And you want to get into animations that look as good as any Iray Render, (YET YOU CAN PRODUCE THEM IN SECONDS INSTEAD OF MULTIPLE HOURS. )then indeed switching to something like Grok super( $30/mo) is definitely a better option IMHO and yes you can use ALL of you existing content
or favorite characters as seed image to create animations.
This is why I'm looking at shifting to High End AI - create key frames in Studio then put them together in AI to create animations. Considering the amount of money I spend in Daz each month (way too much but then I'm a sucker for a sale) I would be better off financially taking out subscriptions to a handful of AI systems and using them.
If you are regularly spending at least $30 a month on Daz content ,or something like that Ridiculous premier subscription for Daz studio., And you want to get into animations that look as good as any Iray Render, (YET YOU CAN PRODUCE THEM IN SECONDS INSTEAD OF MULTIPLE HOURS. )then indeed switching to something like Grok super( $30/mo) is definitely a better option IMHO and yes you can use ALL of you existing content
or favorite characters as seed image to create animations.
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Katsuyaki
Karma: 3,127
Mon, May 04If I refuse to support DAZ's subscription scheme, why would I want to support someone else's?
Anabran
Karma: 3,078
Mon, May 04Sure thing Moogee, Just be aware that at this point none of the AI systems are offering useful features in their “freetiers IMHO so be prepared to pay for the advanced output options
everyone’s financial situation is different of course
I am retired (with a comfortable amount of disposable income), so I can easily afford, the two subscriptions I have, with GrokAI for animation and Mage.space for my 2D Graphic novels.
everyone’s financial situation is different of course
I am retired (with a comfortable amount of disposable income), so I can easily afford, the two subscriptions I have, with GrokAI for animation and Mage.space for my 2D Graphic novels.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,426
Sun, May 03As if there wasn't enough self-promotion and AI threads on a non-AI site already 
Malicious intent comes to mind immediately.
Malicious intent comes to mind immediately.I don't mind a single figure for male and female, except that the following need to be separate:
Different base rigging to suit the male and female base shapes. One base rig isn't going to work for both.
Different topology since base males and females have significantly different body shapes ( breasts etc )
Different UV's , again because the male and female body shapes are so different
And if you're going to do all that, you might as well make two separate figures anyway.
Different base rigging to suit the male and female base shapes. One base rig isn't going to work for both.
Different topology since base males and females have significantly different body shapes ( breasts etc )
Different UV's , again because the male and female body shapes are so different
And if you're going to do all that, you might as well make two separate figures anyway.
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Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,426
Sun, May 03I agree with you on this. For topology, not so much, but only because of the face density at the current count. With more faces, I would like them to be separate. But for UV, I'm 100% with you, as well as for rigging. It's more related to the weights, the way I'm thinking about it for deformations and muscle mass.
yvesab
Karma: 130
Wed, May 13Honestly "rigging" on real humans are extremely different between genres. Evolution made men and women quite different.
Just observe gym athletes of both sexes.
Just observe gym athletes of both sexes.
You 'could' use AI to create art for you, but why stop there?
Why not train the AI to sift though all the available art and then tell you which ones are the best, think of the time you'll save looking at art that isn't top rated?
Why play a game when you can have AI play it for you and get a better high score?
Why chat to humans when an AI is so much more intelligent and witty?
In fact why bother living at all, when an AI can be a far more useful member of society.
Why not train the AI to sift though all the available art and then tell you which ones are the best, think of the time you'll save looking at art that isn't top rated?
Why play a game when you can have AI play it for you and get a better high score?
Why chat to humans when an AI is so much more intelligent and witty?
In fact why bother living at all, when an AI can be a far more useful member of society.
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Why play the piano when an AI can play it more accurately?
Why run a marathon when it's quicker by car?
Why climb a mountain when a helicopter can fly you straight to the top?
Because .... once you remove the human experience, the 'fun', then the whole thing loses meaning. The journey is more important than the destination.
Why run a marathon when it's quicker by car?
Why climb a mountain when a helicopter can fly you straight to the top?
Because .... once you remove the human experience, the 'fun', then the whole thing loses meaning. The journey is more important than the destination.
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Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,426
Wed, May 06I'm taking notes from this 
don't be surprise if you read "another" Luxe echoing your thoughts and shamefully not disclosing the author (kidding)
don't be surprise if you read "another" Luxe echoing your thoughts and shamefully not disclosing the author (kidding)If your only interest is having your photo taken standing at the top of the mountain, then sure use technology to get you there, but don't be surprised when people laugh in your face when they find out how you did it. Same with AI.
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I'm looking forward to G10 , G9 sucks I still use G8
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BAM Creations
Account Closed
Thu, May 07You and MANY MANY others my friend.
I wish they got more detailed skin textures and lets say more "auto pose" ability.
True Mesh collision
Auto JCM
True Mesh collision
Auto JCM
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Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,426
Wed, May 06True mesh collision. Yes!!! Plus automatic subD on colliding surfaces... Pfff it would be amazing!
G9 is the best. I get better results in the portraits with the G9 characters. I would jump into genesis 10 something like 6 months after its release.
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Masterstroke
Karma: 5,283
Fri, May 08Quote:
"G9 is the best. I get better results in the portraits with the G9 characters."
That is exactly the only one thing, where G9 is actually better at.
"G9 is the best. I get better results in the portraits with the G9 characters."
That is exactly the only one thing, where G9 is actually better at.
RenderStar_6980
Karma: 6,364
Fri, May 08Works for me, however i think it would be better for users and creators if it had dedicated male and female figures, instead of the all in one thing.
Also, aren't portraits like 95% of what people use daz for?
Also, aren't portraits like 95% of what people use daz for?
stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 2,595
Fri, May 08Portraits? I think you got the first three letters right. Por_.
Considering the recent Poll says that nearly 60% are still using G8, I would think the percentage of folk using Studio for portraits are probably nearer 40 -45% at most.
I would give another vote for male & female base meshes & an useful level of backward compatibility to enable use of our substantial investment in what are now legacy items.
I would give another vote for male & female base meshes & an useful level of backward compatibility to enable use of our substantial investment in what are now legacy items.
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stevenjoseph8844
Karma: 2,595
Thu, May 14Yeah, those poll numbers are crazy. I hope the folks behind Daz Studio are paying attention.
10 would mean i go crazy and make my fav's models again XD
PLEASE DONT IM NOT READY FOR THIS.
PLEASE DONT IM NOT READY FOR THIS.
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9.1 seems more logical. When the new Daz update does happen, I would love to see a huge rollout starting with the separating of female and male characters. That should've never happened in the first place, and feels rather lazy.
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I very frequently read that many users are unhappy that the Genesis 9 male and female model is a single figure. To me, this complaint seems quite absurd; the model looks exactly how it should in both versions and I find it much more versatile this way-characters and outfits with all the possibilities in a single figure.
I think it's more of an ideological issue, like that guy who used to post about how the Illuminati want to turn everyone transsexual (or something like that, lol).
I hope the next generation of Genesis keeps this dual feature, and I hope they can finally make an advancement in the figure to get rid of that 'typically Daz' look and make the model more natural
I think it's more of an ideological issue, like that guy who used to post about how the Illuminati want to turn everyone transsexual (or something like that, lol).
I hope the next generation of Genesis keeps this dual feature, and I hope they can finally make an advancement in the figure to get rid of that 'typically Daz' look and make the model more natural
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Here we are waiting for Genesis 10 while someone already makes Genesis 35 
https://www.renderhub.com/adelia774/btari-belva-benita-for-genesis-8-female
https://www.renderhub.com/adelia774/btari-belva-benita-for-genesis-8-female
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Why Does Genesis 10 have to be a DAZ Studio figure?
DAZ studio is a dead end. No big progresses made.
DAZ makes money with content, not with the software.
Why couldn't DAZ make Genesis 10 a native Blender figure, since everybody is using Blender nowadys.
DAZ could switch completely to making content for Blender, updating some of their greatest hits content items to native Blender items.
Even if you are a Blender idi*t like me, you could use Blender just as a click and render app like DAZ Studio before and maybe even learn something new.
Other folks could still use old DS with old content and if needed use various exporters.
That wouldn't hurt DAZ, for they could keep selling content, Daz would safe money on software development, while many vendors use Blender anyway.
On a user side, you are no longer tight to Windows-OS or Nvidea GPUs for quicker renders.
You could easily make use of advanced Blender add ons for quicker clothes simulations or better skin shaders.
So, why not?
DAZ studio is a dead end. No big progresses made.
DAZ makes money with content, not with the software.
Why couldn't DAZ make Genesis 10 a native Blender figure, since everybody is using Blender nowadys.
DAZ could switch completely to making content for Blender, updating some of their greatest hits content items to native Blender items.
Even if you are a Blender idi*t like me, you could use Blender just as a click and render app like DAZ Studio before and maybe even learn something new.
Other folks could still use old DS with old content and if needed use various exporters.
That wouldn't hurt DAZ, for they could keep selling content, Daz would safe money on software development, while many vendors use Blender anyway.
On a user side, you are no longer tight to Windows-OS or Nvidea GPUs for quicker renders.
You could easily make use of advanced Blender add ons for quicker clothes simulations or better skin shaders.
So, why not?
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diogenese19348
Karma: 490
Mon, May 25Considering DAZ originally existed to make assets for Poser and only created DAZ Studio when development of Poser came to a screeching halt that isn't all that far fetched an idea.
I think if they did go that route though we would start seeing native Blender content in the store, or at least more of a push to steer people in that direction.
The way DAZ is fumbling around at the moment though I don't see that coming.
I think if they did go that route though we would start seeing native Blender content in the store, or at least more of a push to steer people in that direction.
The way DAZ is fumbling around at the moment though I don't see that coming.
DoroThee237
Karma: 17,331
Mon, May 25@Masterstroke
Quote "since everybody is using Blender nowadys."
I'm not convinced that most Daz users know about or use Blender. Personally, the blender I use is in my kitchen
Quote "since everybody is using Blender nowadys."
I'm not convinced that most Daz users know about or use Blender. Personally, the blender I use is in my kitchen
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,283
Mon, May 25Got that part, but
I don't use Blender either, because I just don't get it
- YET,
I kind of see it all as a possibility to get into it.
Blender would either be a cool render stage or you can progress into it over time.
I don't use Blender either, because I just don't get it
- YET,
I kind of see it all as a possibility to get into it.
Blender would either be a cool render stage or you can progress into it over time.
darkart1
Karma: 2,483
Mon, May 25@diogenese19348: "The way DAZ is fumbling around at the moment though I don't see that coming"
LOL. I would have to agree with you there.
LOL. I would have to agree with you there.
darkart1
Karma: 2,483
Mon, May 25@Masterstroke:
It looks like you might agree with DoroThee237 now, and so do I. I think a lot of Daz Studio users don't use Blender because at first glance it looks pretty freakin' complicated. And it really IS. Don't many Daz users still want the easy button?
It looks like you might agree with DoroThee237 now, and so do I. I think a lot of Daz Studio users don't use Blender because at first glance it looks pretty freakin' complicated. And it really IS. Don't many Daz users still want the easy button?
Wolf007
Karma: 205
Mon, May 25I completelly agree. And after opening Daz 2026 beta i certainlly don't understand these people, its the same thing but even less because they fail to get a solid base and work with PAs ofering a consistent SDK during development and a decent script implementation.
Too much complications in getting 2026 up to speed to offer nothing major in it?
They should had just adapted the new iray so daz 4.X could use RTX 50XX and then make Daz Studio a legacy App. Then focused on moving 'Genesis' stack and the Daz simplicity to Blender.
Too much complications in getting 2026 up to speed to offer nothing major in it?
They should had just adapted the new iray so daz 4.X could use RTX 50XX and then make Daz Studio a legacy App. Then focused on moving 'Genesis' stack and the Daz simplicity to Blender.
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,283
Tue, May 26Quote:
"They should had just adapted the new iray so daz 4.X could use RTX 50XX and then make Daz Studio a legacy App. Then focused on moving 'Genesis' stack and the Daz simplicity to Blender."
This exactly and it wouldn't even hurt DAZ..
"They should had just adapted the new iray so daz 4.X could use RTX 50XX and then make Daz Studio a legacy App. Then focused on moving 'Genesis' stack and the Daz simplicity to Blender."
This exactly and it wouldn't even hurt DAZ..
DoroThee237
Karma: 17,331
Tue, May 26The only local version of Daz that works with the RTX 50XX (Daz 2026 Alfa) is currently unavailable for download
Masterstroke
Karma: 5,283
Tue, May 26The current 2026 BETA doesn't work with the 50xxx series?!
That would be an embarrassing step backwards.
That would be an embarrassing step backwards.
Wolf007
Karma: 205
Tue, May 26"The only local version of Daz that works with the RTX 50XX (Daz 2026 Alfa) is currently unavailable for download"
Its Beta now and you can't download directly i think. You need to use DIM and enable Public builds in advance settings(downloads tab) to see it.
Its Beta now and you can't download directly i think. You need to use DIM and enable Public builds in advance settings(downloads tab) to see it.
diogenese19348
Karma: 490
Tue, May 26Yes, that is correct, there are instructions on the DAZ forum for that. I have it downloaded and installed, I still mainly use 4.24 but I have used it, waiting on a computer I can put a 5090 in, I have one, it doesn't fit in the machine I had, I had to have one made for it. (grumble grumble). On the other hand I bought it in December and the price was quite a bit less than it is now *shrug* Still at the moment it's a very expensive paper weight.
DoroThee237
Karma: 17,331
Tue, May 26I didn’t know that the beta version was available for download.
It’s tiring to have to change 1,500 settings to get a free product, and why not also put your feet on the wall with your fingers up your nose so that the download starts? There are really IT specialists who have time to waste inventing conditions in order to be able to download a beta version of a product.
It’s tiring to have to change 1,500 settings to get a free product, and why not also put your feet on the wall with your fingers up your nose so that the download starts? There are really IT specialists who have time to waste inventing conditions in order to be able to download a beta version of a product.
diogenese19348
Karma: 490
Tue, May 26I find it to be a royal PITA myself particularly when I need to update it. But that's the way they set it up.
