An AI tutorial on a 3D sales platform? Your thoughts? (CLOSED)

But what kind of business is it where you shoot yourself in the foot? Health insurance

I'd say Adaptation.
Don't get me wrong, it's killing my business as well.

Thanks for your well-balanced post, diogenese193484!

However, I'm talking exclusively about generative AI pictures - or rather, a tutorial on it. In my humble opinion, that's just as out of place and dangerous on a platform that sells 3D Daz products like a horde of hungry piranhas in a bathtub. The more people use generative AI (admittedly, with a good tutorial that includes a prompt example) to create their images, the fewer DAZ products are sold on the platform. Can we agree on that?

The AI enhancement tools or generative AI tools for 3D objects that you mentioned are, of course, a completely different matter

I just checked DAZ and I am not seeing a straight AI tutorial. I've been known to miss things of course

Closest thing I found recently is this one, I'm not doing a direct link to it for obvious reasons

Art Official Intelligence: DAZ Studio-Centered Workflows with AI Tools

And that is about using AI in the workflow, not replacing DAZ with it.

What tutorial are you talking about?

And yes, I agree, if Tafi is selling a tutorial on using AI instead of DAZ their brains have turned into Tafioca pudding.

See below

BTW—I don't blame the platform's owners. I could imagine them grudgingly letting that kind of crap slide just to avoid upsetting the user. You know how it is: there are users who, after a minor dispute, head straight to Reddit and badmouth the platform (or whatever).

Ah, you were talking about the, um "other place", not DAZ itself.

Generative AI has moved a lot of people off of 3D art, I believe the general stampede already happened though. Future artists will probably split between those and other methods. If you read through what was written there, and I don't ever assume gender, so I am going to go with "they" third person, they wrote a pretty good description of the process involved. I'm familiar with that process, have tried it, and decided for my purposes 3D art is easier and better suited for what I am doing with it.

It's interesting they chose Rapunzel, because hair is the one place AI is tons easier than 3D. Creating and rendering that kind of hair in 3D is a nightmare, so they picked their subject well.

I think in general though, it all depends on what tools you are better at using. Using AI requires you to meticulously describe a scene. I suck at that, I do dialog and use illustrations for it.

I am not going to suck any less trying to write a detailed scene for AI, I much rather work with 3D objects.

And that is basically the crux of it for anybody. To make a decent scene requires something like this every time (quote is from the tutorial:

"Full-body image of a sexy version of Rapunzel, barefoot and wearing a very tight, skimpy princess outfit. She has very long braided blonde hair, strong eyebrows, light brown eyes, and a beautiful face with light makeup. She has a sexy, curvy body, but without exaggerated proportions. Neutral background."

And some prompts are a lot more verbose than that.

I don't want to spend time on that. I'd rather use 3D objects I can see.

So no, I don't think that Tutorial is financially ruinous for the business model of that website, the biggest issue would be the rage against AI in general by customers, and I don't see that much of it there.

It would be seriously stupid to post the same thing over at DAZ3D for that reason.

Once again: Thank you very much for your balanced comment!

No - a tutorial like that won’t ruin the platform… but it’s the next nail in the coffin (in my opinion). Especially when you consider which platform and target audience we’re talking about. Even a 3D artist like Wurger (whose work I admire) is now churning out AI Slope content a lot … and it ends up looking exactly like all the other shitty crap from the AI 'artists'

But maybe I really am just a grumpy, whiny old fart, and generative AI isn't just art—everyone who uses generative AI is an AI artist. I just wonder why those AI folks don't also call themselves writers (or coders): after all, they're typing something that looks like text into an input field. Well... maybe it'll happen eventually....

Have a great and creative day / weekend

@diogenese19348

"It would be seriously stupid to post the same thing over at DAZ3D for that reason"

And then we had Daz3D going straight to seriously stupid all on their own with Daz AI Studio. ROFL

https://www.daz3d.com/blog/introducing-daz-ai-studio
https://www.daz3d.com/blog/ai-studio-important-update

The funniest part of the whole thing is that Tafi thinks it's an AI company, and lord knows they suck at it. They used to have a separate website, it folded at some point. Now their claim to fame is "Avatars" Whee.

So every single one of DAZ's AI initiatives has failed thus far, only managing to piss off their member base.

And third party vendors at this point are doing a better job of integrating AI tools in the DAZ workflow than DAZ itself can manage.

Pretty weird state of affairs.

This:

https://www.daz3d.com/ai-training-data

vs this:

https://www.meshy.ai/

Who do you think has a better handle on it?

I half wonder if they needed a blog for the week and someone helped out. Anyway, it was a quick read on the basics. Nothing about which tools to use, nothing about how to get around copyright or morality filters, and the prompts were very straightforward, maybe the next issue will get into those details. Also, you've experienced the submission, testing, and release schedule there that does not happen here. Testing alone will stop most AI slop from polluting their product catalog. A release schedule pushes AI floods into the background. So, nope the article over there doesn't bother me, they already have the basic controls in place to deal with slop.

@kwerkx

Pushee, the old fart, now feels like Pushee, the old fart

And here I had thought I avoided this thread overnight when I typed out a long reply as "Me" and not "ROT Admin" and then thought "naaaaah delete that" and closed the thread and went to sleep lol.

@kwerkx I may be assuming wrong when you say "I half wonder if they" to mean the site itself.

If you goto the community page, you'll see blogs are split into two categories:

Recent Official Posts which will always be under Teronsuke (my work name) or Community Manager (also me) which is used for the Recent Release posts, contest posts, Render Rally Weekend etc

Then under that you have: Recent Community Posts which are member blogs, every member of the site has their own "Artist Studio" and while I need to double check on Monday, either everyone or only 'content artists' are able to create and post blogs that show up on the main page (only if a preview image is included) the community page (last two blogs posted) and the blog page itself.

I will look into getting some sort of tags or markers added to blogs so people know which are official and which are from members, to avoid any confusion.

as for the rest of what you said....

100% correct, our review and testing process keeps the actual slop out of the store, While we used to sell AI comics and image sets, we are no longer able to sell ANY AI Comics / Image sets because HRP's seem to be adopting a universal "Nope" on selling AI content, which makes sense if you remember you can not just generate an image and then copyright it, it takes a whole hell of a lot to be able to copyright AI content, so I can only assume the HRP's want nothing to do with that nightmare.

As for the gallery, standard members are limited to 5 gallery submissions per day, Premier members get more, but don't ask me the number as I do not recall., but that keeps the floods down in the gallery.

EDITED:
we are no longer able to sell ANY AI Comics / Image sets because HRP's seem to be adopting a universal "Nope" on selling AI (image) content...

(how is there no edit feature here lol)

This forum operates on a "WYSIWITAICCI" platform (What You See Is What I Typed And I Can't Change it)

It's not the best platform for the typo prone. Like me. Very much like me.

I agree to all those concern about AI.
On a side note, we now have specific characters, that can be immediately recognized as AI, like this example.
Always the same lights, exposure and characters.

100%%%%%

That “I can do even better with this AIwhile your computer component prices keep going bananas will soon leave you out of the “I can do it even better with AIgroup and into the “I pay for someone’s AI to do it better, while I have some credits.br>
The “AI was trained on AI-generated contentmoment will come, and it’s not even that far now, actually.

Sorry for the weird typos while we still haven't got an edit feature.... I guess Obsidian as an editor isn't cut and paste. I still need to use plain text paste or something.

AI doesn't really help here. All it does ist put some crazy filter on mywork, ripp it of its unique features, altering my character's look and add my work to gene pool of stolen ideas.
I needed an AI, that would help with specific PITA problems inside my 3d work space.
I want finally realistic flowing hair.
I don't want to have to 1 billion new JCMs to my character, for just one pose.
I just want materials to look real, the way, my material is intended to look.
It's not just, that I don't like AI for "political" reasons, it just doesn't get the job done either.

Oh @Masterstroke, there is that too. Now anyone saying anything must be driven off some political viewpoint. It's insane!!

I use sometimes AI to correct grammar, my typos are, let's say, legendary. But AI takes a long time doing what word used to (which now includes AI). It hasn't made it better, just the same for longer than it used to.

Ai strips away any personal nuance.

You dont need ten million jcms. Before we had that we used postwork to paint the joint corrections.
You dont need Ai to do good hair.

But that is actually one of those things that make art personal...the errors. The imperfections. The oddities.

There was an artist years ago in rendo.
LONG before any type of "3d asset use" was accepted. I wish I could find them again. But, they would take the old vicki and makes the eyes HUGE. They had an exceptionally notable style. Odd, spooky, slightly unsettling.

The ratios of limbs and head were wrong. The colours hit something viseral in you.

And that is what ended up making them famous. Was...how "wrong" the work was.
It was unique. It was attention grabbing.

THAT is what is the heart of art. The imperfections that are unigue to an individual person.
That touch of their soul.

And Ai cant...do that.

Why renderhub is allowing it, over and over on its front page. I can not fathom!
Its a bait and switch!
I rather have ten thousand gallery submissions that are flawed and unique and speak of the actual artist...then a million "perfect" images that are nothing more than ai slop and drop.

quote:
"You dont need ten million jcms. Before we had that we used postwork to paint the joint corrections.
You dont need Ai to do good hair. "
Yes, I remember those days, cheating on finished renders, painting over messed up joints. I hated this.
Those old crappy Poser days still give me cringe moments.
I would love to not have to use AI for good hair, to bad there is still no hair in any Poser/Daz related marketplace, that I would really call "really good hair"

Quote:
"But that is actually one of those things that make art personal...the errors. The imperfections. The oddities"
there are errors, I can tolerate and there are some, I can't.
Hair and joints, I can't. Those errors are destroying the look, I want to achieve.
That expressive non-realistic art style is a style, that comes AFTER the achievement of mastering realism in art.
Like Picasso, who did amazing realistic artwork, before developing his signature style.
Or Disney artists, who are great at realism.
So, I think, I pretty much disagree about a 100% with you.
AI tools (I mean TOOLS) are (and should be) the last resort to, what conventinal tools obviously can't fix.
Generative AI post render filters on the other hand, are IMO a cheat and a disgrace, that I have no tolerance for.

You state you disagree...then agree with exactly what I am saying.

"Generative AI post render filters on the other hand, are IMO a cheat and a disgrace, that I have no tolerance for." (you'd hate the piece I am currently confused on)

I am talking about those works, that are 99.9% AI and almost nothing of actual work.

As for the days of poser and joint correction . . .they were painful. Still are. But they also show the personality of the artist. That is vital.

As for hair. Hair is a tricky bugger. I remember looking at hair "way back in the day", on some artists and going "HOW do they DO that?"

learned hair brushes, layers, post work. Still working toward the "golden ring" of it. And I -refuse- to use AI to get there.
But that too...is personal style.

And personal style is what it is about!

What if every single artist was exactly the same? Perfect hair. Perfect ratio. Perfect skin?
We all know what happens..."uncanny valley"
"It doesnt look human"
"I dont want perfect skin I want character in my piece..."

Your comment about "after the achievement of mastering realism.."
True, for the most part. But sometimes . . .it is a quirk of personal style.
And that personal style . . .is . . .the point.
Its why we can pick out Goya from Rembrandt. Its why we can denote different styles of lighting, tone, movement...the personal style of each artist.
its why I can look in the gallery and recognize "splatterbaby" work from others. (sorry big fan of his)

They may have the same subject matter, may even use the same assets...but are wholly different.
THAT is the BEAUTY of it.
That personal...touch.

I believe I need far more coffee

Quote:
"You state you disagree...then agree with exactly what I am saying."
Quite possible, I'm loosing it. 20 years insomnia taking its toll.
I'm sorry, didn't mean to p*** you off.
I just feel like I am unable to make my point.

Insomnia and I are very very good friends.
I can empathize with that.

And you didnt p-ss me off at all. Rather, you posit very coherent points.
Its nice to have an exchange that doesnt degrade to name calling.

As for feeling like one is unable to make a point?

I get so riled, I tend to ramble. So I can empathize with that point as well.

Btw I peeked at your gallery...I you do not seem to have any issues with hair at all.