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GLBWhat hapened to 'SavageStudio'?
2,180Thread Activity
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I had a couple of their characters in my wishlist and now this morning they're gone, and the vendor has disappeared.
! REPORT
I assume that the posting concering "minors" plays a role here. Other items have vanished, too, from existing catalogues, though by far not all depicting persons probably minors. Seems a bit random.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,667
Wed, Jun 10It would be nice if the mods would bloody say something.
I'm becoming less and less a fan of this place.
I'm becoming less and less a fan of this place.
darkart1
Karma: 2,539
Wed, Jun 10@Bobb: Why would RenderHub staff need to say something?
Whether it's a policy violation or the user decided to close their account, that's personal information that's probably protected by privacy policy or other legalese.
Personally, I wouldn't be expecting any kind of official response regarding questions about another user's account.
Whether it's a policy violation or the user decided to close their account, that's personal information that's probably protected by privacy policy or other legalese.
Personally, I wouldn't be expecting any kind of official response regarding questions about another user's account.
B-monster666
Karma: 813
Thu, Jun 11JFC people need to get their heads out of their asses. Children *do* exist. Teens *do* exist. There's no need to sexualize them.
I checked their profile on PoserContent since it's not available here anymore, and there's nothing sexual about any of the characters. Can't say I've ever purchased them, but they look perfectly fine.
HumanXYStudio and 3DKingX also apparently got the boot too.
I checked their profile on PoserContent since it's not available here anymore, and there's nothing sexual about any of the characters. Can't say I've ever purchased them, but they look perfectly fine.
HumanXYStudio and 3DKingX also apparently got the boot too.
RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 16,149
Fri, Jun 12@Bobb -
@darkart1 is correct. We do not discuss a user's account status with another user.
@darkart1 is correct. We do not discuss a user's account status with another user.
Now that you say it...
Seems that others are affected, too. Sza Trippie lost some articles, like the Chloe morph, or Exart3D - one of the four articles in his "kids collection" is gone.
It seems a bit erratical.
Still, a fast comment of Renderhub to "this vendor closed his shop" or "shop is temporarily suspended" would help to understand whats happening.
Seems that others are affected, too. Sza Trippie lost some articles, like the Chloe morph, or Exart3D - one of the four articles in his "kids collection" is gone.
It seems a bit erratical.
Still, a fast comment of Renderhub to "this vendor closed his shop" or "shop is temporarily suspended" would help to understand whats happening.
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RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 16,149
Fri, Jun 12As mentioned above, we do not discuss a user's account status with another user.
Jesus, Renderhub, respectfully, calm your tits. Saw HumanXY came back, I had a quick chat with them and...*boom* this user account is closed.
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I'm sure those creators will pop up somewhere. I'm watching and doing a search every few days. Then THEY'LL get my money and loyalty.
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B-monster666
Karma: 813
Thu, Jun 11Agreed. I mean, I appreciate the concern, and I agree that vigilance is necessary. But c'mon...Iguanabits man? There was nothing wrong with any of the promo pics.
Any admins can you tell us if this was followed?
Policy Violations
Any content that violates this policy will be removed and result in a strike against your account. Three of these strikes will result in permanent account closure.
Because from my chat with a few that lost their source of income suddenly said that it was without warning.
Any admins can you tell us if this was followed?
Policy Violations
Any content that violates this policy will be removed and result in a strike against your account. Three of these strikes will result in permanent account closure.
Because from my chat with a few that lost their source of income suddenly said that it was without warning.
diogenese19348
Karma: 590
Thu, Jun 11Technically reading that if the vendor had three items removed they close the account. Even if all three items were already there for years and they got removed at the same time.
Which seems kind of, er, less than optimal for a policy change.
Which seems kind of, er, less than optimal for a policy change.
Bobb
Karma: 1,667
Fri, Jun 12I suspect that that hysterically puritanical assclown who see's kiddie porn in everything, is behind all these recent removals.
It's time that the 99.99% of us who AREN'T offended by everything stop catering to the .001% who spend their time looking for stuff to be offended by.
It's time that the 99.99% of us who AREN'T offended by everything stop catering to the .001% who spend their time looking for stuff to be offended by.
RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 16,149
Fri, Jun 12@B-monster666 -
I think you may be confusing two different sections of the Mature Content Policy.
You quoted language from the Inappropriate Content section, which pertains to content *originally intended for children*.
It seems you (and whoever you chatted with) missed this language in the pertinent section:
"...Violations of these rules will result in the immediate and permanent suspension of the offending account without warning or possibility of appeal..."
https://www.renderhub.com/info/mature-content-policy
I think you may be confusing two different sections of the Mature Content Policy.
You quoted language from the Inappropriate Content section, which pertains to content *originally intended for children*.
It seems you (and whoever you chatted with) missed this language in the pertinent section:
"...Violations of these rules will result in the immediate and permanent suspension of the offending account without warning or possibility of appeal..."
https://www.renderhub.com/info/mature-content-policy
B-monster666
Karma: 813
Fri, Jun 12Entirely fair. I only know one side of the story and that was a vendor telling me that they had no notice and no reason why their site was unceremoniously removed from the site. Usually you can sense that a PA has snagged a warning since parts of their store will disappear, then reappear with new promo images.
However...the real meat of the problem is also just the blatant, apparent censorship. Again, you will receive no arguments when it comes to illegal or inappropriate material being banned...and sure, I guess we don't see the full story. We don't know how many times you may have had to go back and forth with a vendor. It's not about "the children!!!" it's just the sweeping and sudden ban, particularly from some vendors that people have purchased and followed for some time.
I mean, it's a hell of a shock to see my wishlist one day have like 30 something on sale to 10 the next and check and go, "What happened to all this stuff I was going to buy?!"
And yeah, shit happens when it's a vendor or two but this also came as a massive and broad sweep of large vendors, not just a few fly-by-night ones that you know are doomed from the start. When it comes off that numerous vendors suddenly vanished overnight, it's a purge, rather than just routine daily maintenance.
I'd suspect from your side of things, you are purging stuff all the time. I loathe to think of what people think they can post in the gallery that you have to delete...
But, on the flipside, it also seems to come off as a targeted witch hunt. People who get on their high horse as judge, jury and executioner and go through the market place clicking "report" on everything they don't like and an automated bot just comes around and goes, "Oh, Store ABC, 3 reports...you're gone." Even before ABC even has a chance to review or respond to it.
And the fear is that we, the consumers, don't have a say or a reason. Today it's "ban all children-looking". Tomorrow...what? "Ban all furries because ick." If we don't push back as a community, the slope just gets slippier and slippier. I hope you understand.
I am VEHEMENTLY against censorship in any concept whatsoever. I fought my government tooth and nail for Money for Nothing to be aired uncensored. Not because I agree with the lyric, but because it's an artistic representation of something, and it made me experience emotions, even unsettling ones...which is what art does. I am super pro artist and anti corporation and free thought. If I could give the artist money directly, I would. But, I am trusting YOU, RH, to not become Big Brother.
However...the real meat of the problem is also just the blatant, apparent censorship. Again, you will receive no arguments when it comes to illegal or inappropriate material being banned...and sure, I guess we don't see the full story. We don't know how many times you may have had to go back and forth with a vendor. It's not about "the children!!!" it's just the sweeping and sudden ban, particularly from some vendors that people have purchased and followed for some time.
I mean, it's a hell of a shock to see my wishlist one day have like 30 something on sale to 10 the next and check and go, "What happened to all this stuff I was going to buy?!"
And yeah, shit happens when it's a vendor or two but this also came as a massive and broad sweep of large vendors, not just a few fly-by-night ones that you know are doomed from the start. When it comes off that numerous vendors suddenly vanished overnight, it's a purge, rather than just routine daily maintenance.
I'd suspect from your side of things, you are purging stuff all the time. I loathe to think of what people think they can post in the gallery that you have to delete...
But, on the flipside, it also seems to come off as a targeted witch hunt. People who get on their high horse as judge, jury and executioner and go through the market place clicking "report" on everything they don't like and an automated bot just comes around and goes, "Oh, Store ABC, 3 reports...you're gone." Even before ABC even has a chance to review or respond to it.
And the fear is that we, the consumers, don't have a say or a reason. Today it's "ban all children-looking". Tomorrow...what? "Ban all furries because ick." If we don't push back as a community, the slope just gets slippier and slippier. I hope you understand.
I am VEHEMENTLY against censorship in any concept whatsoever. I fought my government tooth and nail for Money for Nothing to be aired uncensored. Not because I agree with the lyric, but because it's an artistic representation of something, and it made me experience emotions, even unsettling ones...which is what art does. I am super pro artist and anti corporation and free thought. If I could give the artist money directly, I would. But, I am trusting YOU, RH, to not become Big Brother.
You guys might want to have a look at our policy around this as it has been recently updated to be in compliance with the law.
https://www.renderhub.com/info/mature-content-policy#z06
https://www.renderhub.com/info/mature-content-policy#z06
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Bobb
Karma: 1,667
Fri, Jun 12That is ridiculously open ended. In effect, ANYTHING that someone sees as offensive can be banned and the artist kicked out.
Again, you're just knuckling under to the .001%
And...I just tried to buy the two items I have in my wishlist but was declined. I just used PayPal last night on Ebay. Are you now blocking putchases?
Again, you're just knuckling under to the .001%
And...I just tried to buy the two items I have in my wishlist but was declined. I just used PayPal last night on Ebay. Are you now blocking putchases?
RenderHub
Admin: 35,214
Fri, Jun 12We are not blocking purchases, all marketplace items on the site are purchasable. Possible bank or CC issue?
RenderHub
Admin: 35,214
Fri, Jun 12"ANYTHING that someone sees as offensive can be banned and the artist kicked out"
Nope... just things that are not compliant with the policy.
Nope... just things that are not compliant with the policy.
XavierMalcolm
Karma: 229
Fri, Jun 12Respectfully, while I understand you taking this hard line approach to enforcing policy by wholesale deleting items and accounts. You are definitely going to slowly kill this website and lose the trust of every party, both sellers and buyers if you don't adjust your approach.
A more sensible approach would be to HIDE flagged items that breach certain policies (for example, inappropriate use of AI) and then notify the seller to make the required adjustments else risk their account being terminated.
You could even do the same for items that cross the line into depicting children in a way deemed too sexual or inappropriate.
It's always best as a business looking to maintain trust that you essentially hide/ghost an item or an account from the store and NOTIFY the seller to make adjustments rather than just wholesale deleting accounts as that is simply far too destructive in many cases where makeable adjustments might have been possible to the products on sale.
Please consider being less destructive (at least initially) in how you enforce policy so you don't slowly piss off your entire userbase.
Thanks.
A more sensible approach would be to HIDE flagged items that breach certain policies (for example, inappropriate use of AI) and then notify the seller to make the required adjustments else risk their account being terminated.
You could even do the same for items that cross the line into depicting children in a way deemed too sexual or inappropriate.
It's always best as a business looking to maintain trust that you essentially hide/ghost an item or an account from the store and NOTIFY the seller to make adjustments rather than just wholesale deleting accounts as that is simply far too destructive in many cases where makeable adjustments might have been possible to the products on sale.
Please consider being less destructive (at least initially) in how you enforce policy so you don't slowly piss off your entire userbase.
Thanks.
B-monster666
Karma: 813
Fri, Jun 12I completely get CSAM material being banned and it fully should be. However, some of the artists who disappeared did not produce CSAM and their storefronts did not exhibit anything inappropriate. IguanaBits2024, for example, didn't have anything in their storefront that appeared offensive in anyway.
I mean, no one is arguing against the "Child Exploitation" section of the TOS, it feels as though the "Inappropriate Content" is being handled rather harshly, and with unclear guidelines or guidelines that border on unreasonable. Speaking with a few other PAs in the past, I learned how ridiculously rigid these can be. Even when using attire that was designed for those models (like stuff made by 3DUniverse) still winds up getting slapped with a warning.
And "facilitates in..." is vastly vague and entirely impossible to control. As long as PAs aren't promoting these models with genitalia mods, or materials it really is impossible to control what the end-user is going to do with the content. And the same can be said with any product that's produced, not just in the 3D space.
And yeah, I get you have your Credit Card gods you have to appease. I've heard how puritanical Visa and MasterCard have been, even in the gaming industry targeting violent or sexual games where there is no chance of laws being broken. But you know what? Companies like Steam have told them to shove it, and they back off.
You cannot control what people are going to do with the end product. You can only control the user-created content if it does directly violate the law.
Have some passion, at least for the art, man. I'd be as pissed off if it was decided that red shoes were no longer acceptable. I've fought this hard for music to be played on radios, sculptures to be displayed. It's art. Art should not be censored. RH is a store that sells the items to construct art. Maybe Michaels should ban paint brushes because someone could paint inappropriate pictures...
I mean, no one is arguing against the "Child Exploitation" section of the TOS, it feels as though the "Inappropriate Content" is being handled rather harshly, and with unclear guidelines or guidelines that border on unreasonable. Speaking with a few other PAs in the past, I learned how ridiculously rigid these can be. Even when using attire that was designed for those models (like stuff made by 3DUniverse) still winds up getting slapped with a warning.
And "facilitates in..." is vastly vague and entirely impossible to control. As long as PAs aren't promoting these models with genitalia mods, or materials it really is impossible to control what the end-user is going to do with the content. And the same can be said with any product that's produced, not just in the 3D space.
And yeah, I get you have your Credit Card gods you have to appease. I've heard how puritanical Visa and MasterCard have been, even in the gaming industry targeting violent or sexual games where there is no chance of laws being broken. But you know what? Companies like Steam have told them to shove it, and they back off.
You cannot control what people are going to do with the end product. You can only control the user-created content if it does directly violate the law.
Have some passion, at least for the art, man. I'd be as pissed off if it was decided that red shoes were no longer acceptable. I've fought this hard for music to be played on radios, sculptures to be displayed. It's art. Art should not be censored. RH is a store that sells the items to construct art. Maybe Michaels should ban paint brushes because someone could paint inappropriate pictures...
RenderHub Admin 1
Admin: 16,149
Fri, Jun 12@XavierMalcolm -
"...HIDE flagged items that breach certain policies ... and then notify the seller to make the required adjustments..."
I think you might be assuming that we don't do that. But that's exactly what we do for certain policies. We kick the product back to the vendor and allow them to fix the problem.
Unfortunately, some vendors don't get the hint - even after they eventually get products suspended after multiple kickbacks. When it becomes clear that they aren't going to consistently follow policy, that's when account bans come in.
"...You could even do the same for items that cross the line..."
Absolutely not. That line should never be crossed.
"...so you don't slowly piss off your entire userbase..."
We have a reporting function for a reason, and community members are using it. I guess you could say those people are "pissed off" when they see content that violates policy. And you might be surprised at how many *positive* messages we receive when those "pissed off" users see policy enforced.
I understand your concerns, but many things are happening behind the scenes that you aren't aware of.
"...HIDE flagged items that breach certain policies ... and then notify the seller to make the required adjustments..."
I think you might be assuming that we don't do that. But that's exactly what we do for certain policies. We kick the product back to the vendor and allow them to fix the problem.
Unfortunately, some vendors don't get the hint - even after they eventually get products suspended after multiple kickbacks. When it becomes clear that they aren't going to consistently follow policy, that's when account bans come in.
"...You could even do the same for items that cross the line..."
Absolutely not. That line should never be crossed.
"...so you don't slowly piss off your entire userbase..."
We have a reporting function for a reason, and community members are using it. I guess you could say those people are "pissed off" when they see content that violates policy. And you might be surprised at how many *positive* messages we receive when those "pissed off" users see policy enforced.
I understand your concerns, but many things are happening behind the scenes that you aren't aware of.
XavierMalcolm
Karma: 229
Fri, Jun 12Fair enough and I appreciate your reply.
I admit that as an avid buyer on this site that hasn't ever sold anything here (yet) I do not actually know the exact procedure you use to handle these things, so I stand corrected on that.
Hopefully you can at least understand why I'd think you were removing account wholesale after seeing several sellers that I'm aware were selling on your site for years just suddenly disappear overnight.
Now I see that the fault indeed rests with them for not doing enough after the warnings given.
Also when I said "cross the line" I'm obviously not referring to content that clearly and obviously depicts minors in an obviously inappropriate context as that should obviously result in immediate account termination. I have no issue with that. My point was really just in recognition of the fact that things aren't always black and white and sometimes what one person DEEMS to be inappropriate is a subjective view based on their own unique perspective not universally seen the same by everyone else, and as such if it's not a CLEAR and OBVIOUS case of a breach, then a chance to rectify was my suggestion.
As you've stated clearly, you do that already. So there is no one else to blame but the sellers here so thanks for clearing that up.
I also know how the payment processing emperors work as a someone that earns a living in the space of digital content myself. So I can imagine things can turn ugly if you don't stay on top of these things.
Keep up the good work on the site.
I admit that as an avid buyer on this site that hasn't ever sold anything here (yet) I do not actually know the exact procedure you use to handle these things, so I stand corrected on that.
Hopefully you can at least understand why I'd think you were removing account wholesale after seeing several sellers that I'm aware were selling on your site for years just suddenly disappear overnight.
Now I see that the fault indeed rests with them for not doing enough after the warnings given.
Also when I said "cross the line" I'm obviously not referring to content that clearly and obviously depicts minors in an obviously inappropriate context as that should obviously result in immediate account termination. I have no issue with that. My point was really just in recognition of the fact that things aren't always black and white and sometimes what one person DEEMS to be inappropriate is a subjective view based on their own unique perspective not universally seen the same by everyone else, and as such if it's not a CLEAR and OBVIOUS case of a breach, then a chance to rectify was my suggestion.
As you've stated clearly, you do that already. So there is no one else to blame but the sellers here so thanks for clearing that up.
I also know how the payment processing emperors work as a someone that earns a living in the space of digital content myself. So I can imagine things can turn ugly if you don't stay on top of these things.
Keep up the good work on the site.
3DLoki
Karma: 3,234
Fri, Jun 12First off, PLEASE FIX the forum setup, not being able to reply to any post in a thread is so annoying, this is not ness the post from you I want to reply to but this is the only way I can reply.
Anyway, on to the meat and potatoes, I did not see any of the effected products or vendors that were removed, but I HAVE seen multiple times in this very thread people say that the content involving children was not sexualized. As a vendor who has an entire line of Child/Tween/Teen figures this scares me, I have just deactivated a 3rd of my store due to the verbiage of the updated policy and the verbiage within this very thread.
You allude to trying to work with vendors who get banned or have products removed while at the same time the policy dictates "at once without warning" but the kicker, that you will KEEP any funds owed to the vendor THAT is what scares me the most (Not that anyone really buys my stuff anymore)
None of my "Lil's" products contain anything inappropriate nor elude to anything inappropriate, All go live at Renderosity first which has some of the strictest guidelines for child content in our industry, but while I'm reading people in here saying such and such was not "dirty" "inappropriate" or "sexual" and the stores and products are still gone and you just falling back to "we will not discuss....." that doesn't help other vendors like myself who could loose not only their store but their money if someone sees one of my Lil's products and decides it's inappropriate to them, flags all of my content and BOOM my store is gone, my money is gone and... checks notes "without warning or possibility of appeal."
So as I said, I've deactivated my 40 "Lil's" products and I'd really appreciate if someone from staff would/could go over my content and assure me that they are "safe" to be unhidden, because I'm not willing to risk my store or my payouts (OR being reported to NCMEC) if someone browsing the site who feels ANY and ALL images of children are inappropriate reports all of my Lil's content.
Anyway, on to the meat and potatoes, I did not see any of the effected products or vendors that were removed, but I HAVE seen multiple times in this very thread people say that the content involving children was not sexualized. As a vendor who has an entire line of Child/Tween/Teen figures this scares me, I have just deactivated a 3rd of my store due to the verbiage of the updated policy and the verbiage within this very thread.
You allude to trying to work with vendors who get banned or have products removed while at the same time the policy dictates "at once without warning" but the kicker, that you will KEEP any funds owed to the vendor THAT is what scares me the most (Not that anyone really buys my stuff anymore)
None of my "Lil's" products contain anything inappropriate nor elude to anything inappropriate, All go live at Renderosity first which has some of the strictest guidelines for child content in our industry, but while I'm reading people in here saying such and such was not "dirty" "inappropriate" or "sexual" and the stores and products are still gone and you just falling back to "we will not discuss....." that doesn't help other vendors like myself who could loose not only their store but their money if someone sees one of my Lil's products and decides it's inappropriate to them, flags all of my content and BOOM my store is gone, my money is gone and... checks notes "without warning or possibility of appeal."
So as I said, I've deactivated my 40 "Lil's" products and I'd really appreciate if someone from staff would/could go over my content and assure me that they are "safe" to be unhidden, because I'm not willing to risk my store or my payouts (OR being reported to NCMEC) if someone browsing the site who feels ANY and ALL images of children are inappropriate reports all of my Lil's content.
We are not going to allow the sexualization of minors in any way whatsoever on our site, and will continue to enforce the policy with zero tolerance.
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ajrf
Karma: 2,683
Fri, Jun 12I do agree... but why then PikaArt has been banned, for example? This user didn't have any children as characters.
B-monster666
Karma: 813
Fri, Jun 12And that's understandable 100%. But what about IguanaBits2024? None of their characters were sexualized in anyway.
XavierMalcolm
Karma: 229
Fri, Jun 12No issue with that whatsoever.
However simply repeating this aspect that no one disagrees with while refusing to acknowledge any of the other criticisms being put forward is beyond annoying.
However simply repeating this aspect that no one disagrees with while refusing to acknowledge any of the other criticisms being put forward is beyond annoying.
RenderHub
Admin: 35,214
Fri, Jun 12We cant discuss anything about a users specific account, but keep in mind there are other reasons why an account might get banned besides a mature content violation.
I'd rather the occasional vendor have an unfortunate accident afoul of this platform's due diligence than for this platform to disappear altogether by becoming an easy target for government crusaders or Big Tech nanny-staters.
Thanks for all you do, mods. I know the balancing act can be a pain. I see you, and I'm grateful.
BV
Thanks for all you do, mods. I know the balancing act can be a pain. I see you, and I'm grateful.
BV
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3DLoki
Karma: 3,234
Fri, Jun 12Not trying to stir up stuff here but, they are far more likely to loose the site over all the game rip assets and IP theft they openly allow on the store. YES they would just try to use "Safe Harbor" claims to get around it but that doesn't work when they themselves include said content in their own email marketing (Batman suit WITH DC logo)
And JUST going by the actual TOS that has been linked here, those 'occasional accidents' you speak of = those vendors loosing their stores, their money AND they are reported to law enforcement, NO heads up, NO warning, NO possibility of appeal.
Now imagine what if they are not even looking at this stuff themselves and like many many other companies have AI "helping" with moderation, you know the same AI that gets so much stuff wrong and now innocent people face possible jail time, loss of money and at least for those of us in the USA being put on a registry that ruins your life moving forward.
I'm sure your comment came from the right place, but those mistakes can literally cost people their lives. EXACTLY why I pulled my stuff down, even though ALL of it was 100% innocent, "Sexual" is highly subjective, heck we got people who get fiesty over cars and buildings, and there are plenty of people who no matter what will see any image or product of children to be dirty in some way shape or form.
people here have claimed the child stuff was innocent, admin as always won't talk about stuff, it's just better to be safe then sorry.
And JUST going by the actual TOS that has been linked here, those 'occasional accidents' you speak of = those vendors loosing their stores, their money AND they are reported to law enforcement, NO heads up, NO warning, NO possibility of appeal.
Now imagine what if they are not even looking at this stuff themselves and like many many other companies have AI "helping" with moderation, you know the same AI that gets so much stuff wrong and now innocent people face possible jail time, loss of money and at least for those of us in the USA being put on a registry that ruins your life moving forward.
I'm sure your comment came from the right place, but those mistakes can literally cost people their lives. EXACTLY why I pulled my stuff down, even though ALL of it was 100% innocent, "Sexual" is highly subjective, heck we got people who get fiesty over cars and buildings, and there are plenty of people who no matter what will see any image or product of children to be dirty in some way shape or form.
people here have claimed the child stuff was innocent, admin as always won't talk about stuff, it's just better to be safe then sorry.
brothervirgil
Karma: 356
Fri, Jun 12When I showed this site to my last gf she was like "How are they not getting sued into oblivion?" My best educated guess was something along the lines of "By being too tiny and niche to be noticed?"
Anyway, you're not wrong in regards to the blatant rips and copyright ignoring. I don't know why these vendors don't at least attempt to come up with parody or "tribute" cover names, or make some kind of bare minimal effort to not be direct ripoffs, but of course I don't control those people. I will grant that can be considered another form of "asking for it".
The AI problem is cancer and ass too, but the whole world having AI brainworms is a known issue.
Being an unspinnably "NSFW" artist myself, I'm used to having the normies and Big Tech hate me and want me dead. But I've avoided any real bullets for this long by keeping minors completely out of my universe, Grand Theft Auto style, and not playing dopey games with borderline, "barely legal", or "schoolgirl" nonsense. And if I design a character based on a morph that's "a little on the younger side," I have the good sense to blend in some other features and adjust the proportions to ensure the end result is unmistakably adult, especially for material that's rated R or beyond. Meanwhile, I've seen high profile artists adjacent to my niche - with numbers much larger than mine - get fried by derping too close to the sun with age-ambiguous "cute" figures.
All that to say, not sexualizing minors - and avoiding *perception* of same - is easier than it's made out to be. Understanding how facial and body proportions, dress, poses, and expressions read is all part of being an artist. Between the widespread surge in authoritarian moral panic mongers and the freedom haters of Big Tech and Big Finance, artists don't just have the adult responsibility, but a rational self-interest in putting real thought into all this. I'm not talking about self censorship, but not making an easy target of yourself. Take it from me, it's so easy a caveman can do it.
For whatever difference it makes, I don't want to a jerk about this either, and I'm assuming good faith on your part as well as most others. What I do want is for every artist and vendor to bring more consciousness to what they're doing, so that mods on platforms like this don't have to resort to the Nerf bat in the first place.
Anyway, you're not wrong in regards to the blatant rips and copyright ignoring. I don't know why these vendors don't at least attempt to come up with parody or "tribute" cover names, or make some kind of bare minimal effort to not be direct ripoffs, but of course I don't control those people. I will grant that can be considered another form of "asking for it".
The AI problem is cancer and ass too, but the whole world having AI brainworms is a known issue.
Being an unspinnably "NSFW" artist myself, I'm used to having the normies and Big Tech hate me and want me dead. But I've avoided any real bullets for this long by keeping minors completely out of my universe, Grand Theft Auto style, and not playing dopey games with borderline, "barely legal", or "schoolgirl" nonsense. And if I design a character based on a morph that's "a little on the younger side," I have the good sense to blend in some other features and adjust the proportions to ensure the end result is unmistakably adult, especially for material that's rated R or beyond. Meanwhile, I've seen high profile artists adjacent to my niche - with numbers much larger than mine - get fried by derping too close to the sun with age-ambiguous "cute" figures.
All that to say, not sexualizing minors - and avoiding *perception* of same - is easier than it's made out to be. Understanding how facial and body proportions, dress, poses, and expressions read is all part of being an artist. Between the widespread surge in authoritarian moral panic mongers and the freedom haters of Big Tech and Big Finance, artists don't just have the adult responsibility, but a rational self-interest in putting real thought into all this. I'm not talking about self censorship, but not making an easy target of yourself. Take it from me, it's so easy a caveman can do it.
For whatever difference it makes, I don't want to a jerk about this either, and I'm assuming good faith on your part as well as most others. What I do want is for every artist and vendor to bring more consciousness to what they're doing, so that mods on platforms like this don't have to resort to the Nerf bat in the first place.
What makes it especially tough is that this platform does have adult content on it, which makes having underage characters in stores problematic, I wouldn't want to walk that fine line myself,. I run an art site that has general and adult sections and I don't allow any underage characters in the general section because of it.
REPLY
! REPORT
B-monster666
Karma: 813
Fri, Jun 12Agreed. There's very few decent market places as well. And totally makes sense because some vendors to cater to both SFW and NSFW material and the site has no way to really differentiate the two.
Perhaps an NSFW rebranding? Some of the AI market sites (namely Civitai, and Tensorhub) have gone that route. Creating an entirely separate subsite soley for NSFW stuff.
Site A - the 'clean' site. No NSFW material can be posted here at all. Not even 'spicy renders' of adult models. All market items would have to meet PG television standards of clothing, poses, etc. Any vendor can sell there no issues with child models and yes, hold an absolute zero tolerance on it. I can get when it gets sticky with some vendors who make NSFW models, and they make younger coded models as well, lumping them together. This would allow vendor to advertise on the clean site any models they feel would fit that they want to sell.
Site B would be the adult site. Strict access control to that, age-gated access (do however you need to to comply with credit card companies), but here would have zero tolerance of models that may appear to be inappropriate. If the model even appears to be a minor coded model, it's removed no questions. "Ambiguous" ones can be sold under the strict SFW policies of the clean family friendly site.
Someone who creates both SFW and NSFW materials could sell in both stores. Those who are just more SFW stuff sell in just the one store. You have the mechanism already in place with the "Adult Content" section on the site. Just enforce that models like HumanXYStudio's adult products *only* appear in the "Adult Content" section, and if they were to create a teen or younger character that it CANNOT be flagged and will only show in the "Daz Content" store, likewise anything he's got flagged as NSFW ONLY shows in the Adult Content site.
Keeps it separate. Keeps vendors and customers happy because content is more freely accessible and doesn't feel as "icky" buying stuff, or looking for stuff. And probably would keep the payment processors happy because the public appearance of Renderhub would be much cleaner and SFW.
Perhaps an NSFW rebranding? Some of the AI market sites (namely Civitai, and Tensorhub) have gone that route. Creating an entirely separate subsite soley for NSFW stuff.
Site A - the 'clean' site. No NSFW material can be posted here at all. Not even 'spicy renders' of adult models. All market items would have to meet PG television standards of clothing, poses, etc. Any vendor can sell there no issues with child models and yes, hold an absolute zero tolerance on it. I can get when it gets sticky with some vendors who make NSFW models, and they make younger coded models as well, lumping them together. This would allow vendor to advertise on the clean site any models they feel would fit that they want to sell.
Site B would be the adult site. Strict access control to that, age-gated access (do however you need to to comply with credit card companies), but here would have zero tolerance of models that may appear to be inappropriate. If the model even appears to be a minor coded model, it's removed no questions. "Ambiguous" ones can be sold under the strict SFW policies of the clean family friendly site.
Someone who creates both SFW and NSFW materials could sell in both stores. Those who are just more SFW stuff sell in just the one store. You have the mechanism already in place with the "Adult Content" section on the site. Just enforce that models like HumanXYStudio's adult products *only* appear in the "Adult Content" section, and if they were to create a teen or younger character that it CANNOT be flagged and will only show in the "Daz Content" store, likewise anything he's got flagged as NSFW ONLY shows in the Adult Content site.
Keeps it separate. Keeps vendors and customers happy because content is more freely accessible and doesn't feel as "icky" buying stuff, or looking for stuff. And probably would keep the payment processors happy because the public appearance of Renderhub would be much cleaner and SFW.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Fri, Jun 12How about we do it the other way around? Let's Ban ALL sexual content entirely? Why is it that the child figures need be sacrificed first?
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
Hellcat
Karma: 896
Fri, Jun 12A spinoff site for adult content (like Renderotica is to CGBytes) would be fine, but I can't support a blanket ban on adult content.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Fri, Jun 12Right, but I do hope you get the underlying point I was making.
Another way to put it is, If I were looking for porn, I'd go to something with porn in it's name, like Renderotica has erotica. RenderHub has both worlds, wish is fine, and the filters work great, so it's the place for me.
But the post I'm replying to is basically saying, "no children's here, it's problematic, like I do in my website."
Another way to put it is, If I were looking for porn, I'd go to something with porn in it's name, like Renderotica has erotica. RenderHub has both worlds, wish is fine, and the filters work great, so it's the place for me.
But the post I'm replying to is basically saying, "no children's here, it's problematic, like I do in my website."
diogenese19348
Karma: 590
Fri, Jun 12You do seem to always manage to misconstrue what I am saying. I never said ban all underage models from this site. I said I didn't allow them because I am an art site not a store front, and it keeps me from having to deal with the issue. I was further saying I can see why a store front having both child models and nude adult models makes it really tough to moderate. Which a couple of vendors do.
I think they probably would be better off with a renderotica/cgbytes type set up, but it isn't up to me to tell them how to run this site.
I think they probably would be better off with a renderotica/cgbytes type set up, but it isn't up to me to tell them how to run this site.
B-monster666
Karma: 813
Fri, Jun 12Hot topic for sure...
But a few things: Porn sells, unfortunately. I really don't think RenderHub would be willing to cut out what I would assume to be a significant portion of their market. And again, I feel that is abhorrent to the very nature of art, for the vendor and for the creator.
Personally, I think it's a tough subject to broach because like you said, RH is trying to cover all bases here and be accessible to the broadest market possible as well as making the site most accessible to the most amount of vendors possible. There's a reason why a lot of vendors sell here rather than Renderosity, or Daz. Not going to call out any names, but there's a lot more amateurish stuff on this site compared to other places. And honestly, there needs to be a market for newer vendors to learn the ropes.
I have zero sway in the site, but I'd see a hard segregation between SFW and NSFW as an optimal way to go. A lot of other opensource sites, like I pointed out, do offer that. The main "go to site[dot]com" that is the most common is safe, and free, and no worries about restrictions or guidelines. And you know what? Probably a large chunk of vendors would actually wind up there. But then, you have the 'back door' where users need to validate that they're 18+ to access, and that site would have the more ...lurid stuff.
From what I hear from Tensorhub and Civitai, that is enough to also appease the Credit Card companies because the main face is marketable and fits within their guidelines, and RH is doing something to ensure that minors are not interacting with NSFW materials even as consumers.
But a few things: Porn sells, unfortunately. I really don't think RenderHub would be willing to cut out what I would assume to be a significant portion of their market. And again, I feel that is abhorrent to the very nature of art, for the vendor and for the creator.
Personally, I think it's a tough subject to broach because like you said, RH is trying to cover all bases here and be accessible to the broadest market possible as well as making the site most accessible to the most amount of vendors possible. There's a reason why a lot of vendors sell here rather than Renderosity, or Daz. Not going to call out any names, but there's a lot more amateurish stuff on this site compared to other places. And honestly, there needs to be a market for newer vendors to learn the ropes.
I have zero sway in the site, but I'd see a hard segregation between SFW and NSFW as an optimal way to go. A lot of other opensource sites, like I pointed out, do offer that. The main "go to site[dot]com" that is the most common is safe, and free, and no worries about restrictions or guidelines. And you know what? Probably a large chunk of vendors would actually wind up there. But then, you have the 'back door' where users need to validate that they're 18+ to access, and that site would have the more ...lurid stuff.
From what I hear from Tensorhub and Civitai, that is enough to also appease the Credit Card companies because the main face is marketable and fits within their guidelines, and RH is doing something to ensure that minors are not interacting with NSFW materials even as consumers.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Fri, Jun 12I'm not misconstruing @diogenese19348, this was your suggestion: " I don't allow any underage characters in the general section because of it. "
@B-monster666, there is a filter already. I use it 24/7, so I can leave my girls on my computer and this site open in a tab without worrying they'll see something not appropriate for their age. And they know not to change it.
Porn might sell, but there is also free porn accessible to everyone, so I'm not sure how much it actually sells for, other than for a few, when it is so readily available for free. But that's another topic.
I don't like porn, which is a personal choice, nor does my husband, but I'm not about to force anyone to lose access to it because I don't like it as much.
@B-monster666, there is a filter already. I use it 24/7, so I can leave my girls on my computer and this site open in a tab without worrying they'll see something not appropriate for their age. And they know not to change it.
Porn might sell, but there is also free porn accessible to everyone, so I'm not sure how much it actually sells for, other than for a few, when it is so readily available for free. But that's another topic.
I don't like porn, which is a personal choice, nor does my husband, but I'm not about to force anyone to lose access to it because I don't like it as much.
diogenese19348
Karma: 590
Fri, Jun 12I don't, but you missed the message which was " I wouldn't want to walk that fine line myself", I in no way was suggesting that underage content should be removed from this site.
So yes, you were indeed misconstruing what I said.
The general area of my site is PG-13, which is a good enough reason not to allow fictional child content. Like this site I don't allow any photos or AI renderings of real people, regardless of age.
So yes, you were indeed misconstruing what I said.
The general area of my site is PG-13, which is a good enough reason not to allow fictional child content. Like this site I don't allow any photos or AI renderings of real people, regardless of age.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Fri, Jun 12I’m not suggesting you want a full ban. I’m responding to the point that having underage characters alongside adult content is especially problematic.
This platform already has filters that separate general and adult content, and they work well for most users. Many people here use both sides without issue.
It’s similar to how the same company (Amazon, for example) sells adult items, kids’ clothing, and everyday products like detergent under one roof. The categories are kept separate, and most people navigate them fine.
This platform already has filters that separate general and adult content, and they work well for most users. Many people here use both sides without issue.
It’s similar to how the same company (Amazon, for example) sells adult items, kids’ clothing, and everyday products like detergent under one roof. The categories are kept separate, and most people navigate them fine.
GrapeJuice3D
Karma: 18,696
Fri, Jun 12Guys, due all respect, the problem here is not that Renderhub's marketplace allows vendors to sell underage characters and adult content in the same website, the problem is that there's some people that are doing the crime that is: Sexualizing a underage character. That's it, simple and clean. The response Renderhub is giving to those weirdos and what happens to their accounts is already very effective and correct, Renderhub even sends their information to the authorities, I doubt most stores do that. Respectfully, saying that what makes it easier to people do that it's because the website allows both contents it's same I say I will start using drugs because there's a guy selling them in the front of my house lol. There's no problem that the store has both kind of products if they are fine and are following the website's rules, if you only want to see safe content or adult content the website has filters and they work nicely, if there's adult content appearing on people's feeds that they don't like\want to see it's because the filters are not set correctly, and if someone posted in the wrong section on purpose you can always report them, Renderhub normally takes action in the same day. And I agree with Luxe Muse, the categories are separate so the navegation is fine. Today not even Disney + is totally SFW lol..
B-monster666
Karma: 813
Sat, Jun 13It's one thing when it's one or two who have disappeared. I get that. I see that happen here all the time. CSAM, in fact, from what I see gets dealt with super quickly although it's extremely rare.
This issue is that it was a considerable amount of vendors who suddenly vanished without a trace and seemingly without warning. And as far as what most of us saw here, those vendors didn't appear to have anything in their stores to warrant such harsh reactions. Some did sell teen characters, or younger either exclusively, or alongside adult characters. Others didn't seem to have anything innocuous. And a few of these had even been longtime vendors. With zero transparency.
And keep in mind, bondage and torture assets like in your store could also get triggered with a zero-transparency enforcement.
And 'minor models' isn't the entire issue, this is just what the speculation is because the massive swath of departures came at the same time as the post pinned about minors was thrown up.
Savagestudios did not appear to have anything overt. 99% of their models even all had enormous breasts.
HumanXYStudios had an entirely separate store for their younger keyed characters which was kept within TOS, and that vendor had been around for a long time.
IguanaBits2024 did have mostly teenaged characters, but from my perspective, there was nothing sexualized about them whatsoever. Even the attire appeared to be appropriate (though, what's appropriate for a teenager is vastly different among people, I guess)
adelia774 again had all mature and massive breasted characters so claiming they were turfed because of child is laughable. They had a few minor characters, I guess, but they were far from sexualized.
NonaPlus got wiped out, again a vendor with only mature large breasted characters.
chinzillams all adult characters.
PikaArt had 99% massive breasted characters with a handful of teens who were not sexualized.
And when these were brought up, there was a hand-wavy post about AI content thrown up as well.
This issue is that it was a considerable amount of vendors who suddenly vanished without a trace and seemingly without warning. And as far as what most of us saw here, those vendors didn't appear to have anything in their stores to warrant such harsh reactions. Some did sell teen characters, or younger either exclusively, or alongside adult characters. Others didn't seem to have anything innocuous. And a few of these had even been longtime vendors. With zero transparency.
And keep in mind, bondage and torture assets like in your store could also get triggered with a zero-transparency enforcement.
And 'minor models' isn't the entire issue, this is just what the speculation is because the massive swath of departures came at the same time as the post pinned about minors was thrown up.
Savagestudios did not appear to have anything overt. 99% of their models even all had enormous breasts.
HumanXYStudios had an entirely separate store for their younger keyed characters which was kept within TOS, and that vendor had been around for a long time.
IguanaBits2024 did have mostly teenaged characters, but from my perspective, there was nothing sexualized about them whatsoever. Even the attire appeared to be appropriate (though, what's appropriate for a teenager is vastly different among people, I guess)
adelia774 again had all mature and massive breasted characters so claiming they were turfed because of child is laughable. They had a few minor characters, I guess, but they were far from sexualized.
NonaPlus got wiped out, again a vendor with only mature large breasted characters.
chinzillams all adult characters.
PikaArt had 99% massive breasted characters with a handful of teens who were not sexualized.
And when these were brought up, there was a hand-wavy post about AI content thrown up as well.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Sat, Jun 13Thank you so much for the detailed summary, @B-monster666. The picture is a lot clearer, thank you!
Wolf007
Karma: 255
Sat, Jun 13Can't say i saw their stores here before they were gone. But for one of that list i saw posted a link to another site (now removed). That person, belongs in jail. Close the door and loose the key.
Just because you put clothes for the marketing pictures here does not make it alright when the model has AE that are 100% textured up the smallest detail.
Clear case of vendors that are just appearing to be 'innocent' when they are confident their customers know already they were getting more from their models.
Just because you put clothes for the marketing pictures here does not make it alright when the model has AE that are 100% textured up the smallest detail.
Clear case of vendors that are just appearing to be 'innocent' when they are confident their customers know already they were getting more from their models.
B-monster666
Karma: 813
Sat, Jun 13I was not aware of that, and I'm not one to spread rumours and speculation, but if that is true then, yes, it's deserved.
However there -are- vendors who -do- make younger models with 100% innocence in mind. Luxe Muse, for instance (don't mean to call you out there, but making a point), 3DLoki also, I know for a fact, from talking with him, has no intention of his Lils being used in that manner. Just because someone makes a smaller model doesn't mean that they are intending its use to be nefarious. And just because someone purchases the model doesn't mean that it's illicit either.
That's like saying if I go to Walmart and buy duct tape, lye, and plastic sheeting that I'm planning on murdering someone. It's far more likely that I'm planning on doing some gardening, and home repairs.
However there -are- vendors who -do- make younger models with 100% innocence in mind. Luxe Muse, for instance (don't mean to call you out there, but making a point), 3DLoki also, I know for a fact, from talking with him, has no intention of his Lils being used in that manner. Just because someone makes a smaller model doesn't mean that they are intending its use to be nefarious. And just because someone purchases the model doesn't mean that it's illicit either.
That's like saying if I go to Walmart and buy duct tape, lye, and plastic sheeting that I'm planning on murdering someone. It's far more likely that I'm planning on doing some gardening, and home repairs.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Sat, Jun 13Hmm... yeah, but why don't we just stop there, @Wolf007. We should go after Wikipedia too, showing those nasty Cupid statues: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupid.
In fact, let's make sure every fountain and every sculpture, Catholic or from ancient Greece, depicting children puts anyone who's ever witnessed it, whoever copied it, in jail and lest erase the memory of the sculptors, the painters, out of every history book.
In fact, let's make sure every fountain and every sculpture, Catholic or from ancient Greece, depicting children puts anyone who's ever witnessed it, whoever copied it, in jail and lest erase the memory of the sculptors, the painters, out of every history book.
GrapeJuice3D
Karma: 18,696
Sat, Jun 13hey @B-monster666 , I'm not saying that was the case with those specific vendors, I don't know them and I don't know what they sold, I don't do much search here in the website either, I was just commenting that selling both contents here is not the problem. About that my store could be closed anytime because I sell bondage content it's another discussion entirely, if my store disappears tomorrow it's two things: or Renderhub doesn't want bondage content anymore, or I could just had asked them to close it, I've even thought about doing that a few times in the past, it's simple as that. If they closed my store I would be sad? Of course I would, but that's just life, stores change their content policy all the time. Last year I was selling my adult animated videos here and one day they got removed because Renderhub decided to remove the animated adult movies section from store because some people were violating several of the store's policies with them even copyrights, I got sad of course mostly because they were selling nicely but Renderhub has the right to do that, it's their store anyways. And like Renderhub itself commented in another comment there are many other things that would cause a store to be closed, maybe they infringed the website's policies like for example posting products on wrong sections repeatedly, used ai to alter renders and the products are different, buyers complained that their products don't work properly or don't match the renders, maybe they are using textures from another artists (people do that A LOT and sell the characters later), or they simply got tired of selling here and they just moved on, not everyone will do a post telling why they are closing their stores. About everyone disappearing at the same time, maybe Renderhub was waiting to have a specific number of users to do that and then removed everyone at once, depending of how the website is programmed and how much content is stored on the cloud it's easier than removing one by one day by day. Anyways, I was just answering about my opinion on selling both contents, I don't know what happened with those vendors and besides, Renderhub not telling us what happened to them it's normal, other sites don't tell either, that's probably some legal strategy to avoid increasing the chance of receiving lawsuits or something like that.
Wolf007
Karma: 255
Sat, Jun 13-You have to belive me Judge, i only make these models so other could render kids and teens playing in the park. I'm not responsible for what other people do with them.
-Right. Then why did you add AE and provided pictures of that on alternate sites?
.....
I have no problem with the existance of Teens or Kids models. But (IMO) if a vendor adds AE and full mats, then knows exactly how the model will be used and decided to make things easier for that particular purpose. That is what i understand the updated policy is targeting.
Is the policy too restrictive? Has some blurry lines? Can it lead to false positives? I don't know, maybe. I'm not saying the debate should be over, 3DLoki makes a good point about use of AI to see these cases. I think it would be important that Renderhub states that only real persons would evaluate the reports for these.
-Right. Then why did you add AE and provided pictures of that on alternate sites?
.....
I have no problem with the existance of Teens or Kids models. But (IMO) if a vendor adds AE and full mats, then knows exactly how the model will be used and decided to make things easier for that particular purpose. That is what i understand the updated policy is targeting.
Is the policy too restrictive? Has some blurry lines? Can it lead to false positives? I don't know, maybe. I'm not saying the debate should be over, 3DLoki makes a good point about use of AI to see these cases. I think it would be important that Renderhub states that only real persons would evaluate the reports for these.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Sat, Jun 13You might need to explain to the Judge, what AE even means. What does it even mean, internet accuser?
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Sat, Jun 13Also, what alternative sites? Renderotica? Daz? Most of us don't even sale there for obvious reasons.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Sat, Jun 13I'm pretty sure no one here sells children with anatomical elements. Unless you're also referring to eyes, tongue, nails, etc., which are also anatomical elements. So maybe it's time to stop using acronyms? Plain English works just fine. Using them, though, feels just as lazy as seeing a child and immediately going with the tiresome "sexualizing" because you, instead of seeing something simply cute, whimsical, or funny, see sexualization.
Wolf007
Karma: 255
Sat, Jun 13Sorry about the confusion on the abreviation.
QUOTE: "I'm pretty sure no one here sells children with anatomical elements."
Well, you also like to argue with people on sentenses that you don't even understood in the first place. Pardon me if i don't take your word as valid claims for every vendor.
QUOTE: "I'm pretty sure no one here sells children with anatomical elements."
Well, you also like to argue with people on sentenses that you don't even understood in the first place. Pardon me if i don't take your word as valid claims for every vendor.
diogenese19348
Karma: 590
Sat, Jun 13I've never seen anybody stupid enough to sell AE for the prepubescent crowd at least outside of the dark web and since I don't go there I don't know, but I'd have to point out that the 12-17 crowd for purposes of the laws are considered children and the usual AE works there.
And since we are talking 3D models that do not have birth certificates telling the difference between say a 16 year old and an 18 year old is problematic - often you would have to go by what else is in the picture, or in the case of a comic other behavioral clues.
And that of course is leaving out the idiots that put pointy ears on the questionable ones and call them 400 year old elves.
On one hand I think the laws are going nuts on fictional representations, on the other hand, I don't look good in orange so I tend to stay cautious on what I allow. So does anybody else running a site with adult content.
And since we are talking 3D models that do not have birth certificates telling the difference between say a 16 year old and an 18 year old is problematic - often you would have to go by what else is in the picture, or in the case of a comic other behavioral clues.
And that of course is leaving out the idiots that put pointy ears on the questionable ones and call them 400 year old elves.
On one hand I think the laws are going nuts on fictional representations, on the other hand, I don't look good in orange so I tend to stay cautious on what I allow. So does anybody else running a site with adult content.
Wolf007
Karma: 255
Sat, Jun 13QUOTE: "And that of course is leaving out the idiots that put pointy ears on the questionable ones and call them 400 year old elves."
I hate those. I never understood how in gaming (speaking mostly of some asian MMOs) that gets a pass.
I hate those. I never understood how in gaming (speaking mostly of some asian MMOs) that gets a pass.
Pawngame
Karma: 39,179
Sat, Jun 13From reading the replies, I seem to understand what AE means now, and I wish I didn't since i'm close to vomiting right now.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Sat, Jun 13I just did a search for Asian MMO "problematic" characters as it was mention above... I guess, this is what the thought police thinks is the most problematic... as it was top in my results, along with not even children characters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7naMKpuHVk&t=96s
If this is problematic, then, maybe, anyone who likes to make young characters should pack up and leave, before being accused by the real weird people who see sexualization in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7naMKpuHVk&t=96s
If this is problematic, then, maybe, anyone who likes to make young characters should pack up and leave, before being accused by the real weird people who see sexualization in it.
Wolf007
Karma: 255
Sat, Jun 13Oh, you made a search and watch a video....are you an expert now?
What do you know of asian mmos? When i say 'those getting a pass' i don't mean just having the characters that look like children. Is a lot more than that. I will not bother to explain to you. Think whatever you want.
You just saw someone with an opinion contrary to yours and decided to attack. Even admited to start aguing without understanding the reson of those opinions.
You want to keep twisting other people's words like you usually do, do it alone. You already sound like Daz mods.
What do you know of asian mmos? When i say 'those getting a pass' i don't mean just having the characters that look like children. Is a lot more than that. I will not bother to explain to you. Think whatever you want.
You just saw someone with an opinion contrary to yours and decided to attack. Even admited to start aguing without understanding the reson of those opinions.
You want to keep twisting other people's words like you usually do, do it alone. You already sound like Daz mods.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Sat, Jun 13You must know a lot about the "problematic" games you mention. I don't. I rely on searches, articles, and the like to reach a consensus on my own. But yeah, like you said, you probably know a lot more about problematic content, since you seem to know even the acronyms, lingo, games, and such.
Self-report much?
It might feel like I'm attacking, because that's what happens when common sense meets the mob and trendy behavior.
Self-report much?
It might feel like I'm attacking, because that's what happens when common sense meets the mob and trendy behavior.
GrapeJuice3D
Karma: 18,696
Sat, Jun 13Now, now.
There's no need to fight.
Why not settle this...
Over a nice cup of tea?
There's no need to fight.
Why not settle this...
Over a nice cup of tea?
diogenese19348
Karma: 590
Sat, Jun 13@Luxe Muse
No that isn't problematic, and nobody is going to see it that way. It's when a sexual element is brought in that it becomes one. Besides, they didn't have pointy ears
Do a search on:
Anime underage sexualized characters
And you come across the discussion of the subject pretty quickly
No that isn't problematic, and nobody is going to see it that way. It's when a sexual element is brought in that it becomes one. Besides, they didn't have pointy ears
Do a search on:
Anime underage sexualized characters
And you come across the discussion of the subject pretty quickly
Wolf007
Karma: 255
Sat, Jun 13I will point to you things that are most definetelly not common sense:
* Putting words or making implications that do not reflect what the other person said.
* Starting an argument on someone over his opinion. Then admiting you had no clue why that person said that.
Whant an example of what common may look like, try using some logic:
- Your store is up and running, so do others with teen/childrens. So, no general ban...Then ask yourself.....Where the closed ones as clean as yours and those that are still up or maybe there was something else you didn't saw?
* Putting words or making implications that do not reflect what the other person said.
* Starting an argument on someone over his opinion. Then admiting you had no clue why that person said that.
Whant an example of what common may look like, try using some logic:
- Your store is up and running, so do others with teen/childrens. So, no general ban...Then ask yourself.....Where the closed ones as clean as yours and those that are still up or maybe there was something else you didn't saw?
Wolf007
Karma: 255
Sat, Jun 13Sorry GrapeJuice, did't update before posting.
A Cup of tea sounds lovely.
A Cup of tea sounds lovely.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Sat, Jun 13Yes, everything is better with tea. Thank you, @GrapeJuice3D
But why would I do a search for "Anime underage sexualized characters" to begin with? If I read "problematic" from you and "MMO" from him.
The first thing that comes to my mind isn't "Anime sexualized underage characters."
What seems obvious to me is an agenda, a trend. Social media, maybe? I don't use it, but I bet that's where this stems from. I've had this conversation before here, and I've read enough comments like some here to notice the trend. I'm not going to sit quietly like others did, probably thinking it happened to someone else.
But why would I do a search for "Anime underage sexualized characters" to begin with? If I read "problematic" from you and "MMO" from him.
The first thing that comes to my mind isn't "Anime sexualized underage characters."
What seems obvious to me is an agenda, a trend. Social media, maybe? I don't use it, but I bet that's where this stems from. I've had this conversation before here, and I've read enough comments like some here to notice the trend. I'm not going to sit quietly like others did, probably thinking it happened to someone else.
diogenese19348
Karma: 590
Sat, Jun 13Because maybe it would be important to you to understand the subject, then again, maybe not. Carry on.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Sat, Jun 13I'll carry on. It seems you've both self-reported enough.
And yes, I wasn't even aware of the "dark web" or "MMOs" with "anime underage sexualized characters", and so on. I'm not searching for it, of course. I don't even play games.
I do hope, however, that this isn't one of those situations where the pyromaniac is accusing the firefighters of there being a fire.
And yes, I wasn't even aware of the "dark web" or "MMOs" with "anime underage sexualized characters", and so on. I'm not searching for it, of course. I don't even play games.
I do hope, however, that this isn't one of those situations where the pyromaniac is accusing the firefighters of there being a fire.
B-monster666
Karma: 813
Sat, Jun 13It is entirely possible that there was definitely something larger going on. You're right, we don't know. But the concern for myself, as a consumer, and for vendors is that there is very little transparency.
It's not just a single instance. It's not one individual vendor who suddenly disappeared. If it was, that would make more sense. I've seen that happen from time to time. Either someone posts something in the store that's wildly inappropriate, or someone is posting obviously repackaged assets from another site. Those really don't last very long. And I don't think there would be communit discussion about that.
I can imagine that vendors are spooked. I wouldn't blame them. Like I said, you have a means of income that you may rely on that hangs by a seemingly tenuous thread. And it's one thing when you can see an account making blatant TOS violations disappear you can feel confident that RH has your back. But, when vendors disappear en masse and it doesn't appear that their stores were in any kind of jeopardy, they appeared to be following TOS perfectly fine, and eliminated overnight... I would be spooked to, as a vendor. You wonder if there's something in your store that's in violation that you have no clue about because the TOS does have some pretty wide parts and are open to interpretation of the mod.
And from a consumer who may have purchased from these vendors in the past, you worry. You may see those vendors as friends, even if you don't interact with them, but to you, theyre trusted sources for your art. And poof they're gone, and there's rumblings about CSAM, or IP theft or whatever, and you wonder, "what did I buy into? Who was I supporting?!"
It's not just a single instance. It's not one individual vendor who suddenly disappeared. If it was, that would make more sense. I've seen that happen from time to time. Either someone posts something in the store that's wildly inappropriate, or someone is posting obviously repackaged assets from another site. Those really don't last very long. And I don't think there would be communit discussion about that.
I can imagine that vendors are spooked. I wouldn't blame them. Like I said, you have a means of income that you may rely on that hangs by a seemingly tenuous thread. And it's one thing when you can see an account making blatant TOS violations disappear you can feel confident that RH has your back. But, when vendors disappear en masse and it doesn't appear that their stores were in any kind of jeopardy, they appeared to be following TOS perfectly fine, and eliminated overnight... I would be spooked to, as a vendor. You wonder if there's something in your store that's in violation that you have no clue about because the TOS does have some pretty wide parts and are open to interpretation of the mod.
And from a consumer who may have purchased from these vendors in the past, you worry. You may see those vendors as friends, even if you don't interact with them, but to you, theyre trusted sources for your art. And poof they're gone, and there's rumblings about CSAM, or IP theft or whatever, and you wonder, "what did I buy into? Who was I supporting?!"
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Sat, Jun 13@Wolf007 "Then ask yourself.....Where the closed ones as clean as yours and those that are still up or maybe there was something else you didn't saw?"
Nor do you know what the actual issue was. As others said, people with no characters at all disappeared.
That’s why I saw this post going for the underage character angle in a way that felt suspiciously agenda-driven.
Nor do you know what the actual issue was. As others said, people with no characters at all disappeared.
That’s why I saw this post going for the underage character angle in a way that felt suspiciously agenda-driven.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Sat, Jun 13B-monster666 (Sorry, your post is more informational than mine, so I don't want mine to be the last) Repeating what you said.
It is entirely possible that there was definitely something larger going on. You're right, we don't know. But the concern for myself, as a consumer, and for vendors is that there is very little transparency.
It's not just a single instance. It's not one individual vendor who suddenly disappeared. If it was, that would make more sense. I've seen that happen from time to time. Either someone posts something in the store that's wildly inappropriate, or someone is posting obviously repackaged assets from another site. Those really don't last very long. And I don't think there would be communit discussion about that.
I can imagine that vendors are spooked. I wouldn't blame them. Like I said, you have a means of income that you may rely on that hangs by a seemingly tenuous thread. And it's one thing when you can see an account making blatant TOS violations disappear you can feel confident that RH has your back. But, when vendors disappear en masse and it doesn't appear that their stores were in any kind of jeopardy, they appeared to be following TOS perfectly fine, and eliminated overnight... I would be spooked to, as a vendor. You wonder if there's something in your store that's in violation that you have no clue about because the TOS does have some pretty wide parts and are open to interpretation of the mod.
And from a consumer who may have purchased from these vendors in the past, you worry. You may see those vendors as friends, even if you don't interact with them, but to you, theyre trusted sources for your art. And poof they're gone, and there's rumblings about CSAM, or IP theft or whatever, and you wonder, "what did I buy into? Who was I supporting?!"
It is entirely possible that there was definitely something larger going on. You're right, we don't know. But the concern for myself, as a consumer, and for vendors is that there is very little transparency.
It's not just a single instance. It's not one individual vendor who suddenly disappeared. If it was, that would make more sense. I've seen that happen from time to time. Either someone posts something in the store that's wildly inappropriate, or someone is posting obviously repackaged assets from another site. Those really don't last very long. And I don't think there would be communit discussion about that.
I can imagine that vendors are spooked. I wouldn't blame them. Like I said, you have a means of income that you may rely on that hangs by a seemingly tenuous thread. And it's one thing when you can see an account making blatant TOS violations disappear you can feel confident that RH has your back. But, when vendors disappear en masse and it doesn't appear that their stores were in any kind of jeopardy, they appeared to be following TOS perfectly fine, and eliminated overnight... I would be spooked to, as a vendor. You wonder if there's something in your store that's in violation that you have no clue about because the TOS does have some pretty wide parts and are open to interpretation of the mod.
And from a consumer who may have purchased from these vendors in the past, you worry. You may see those vendors as friends, even if you don't interact with them, but to you, theyre trusted sources for your art. And poof they're gone, and there's rumblings about CSAM, or IP theft or whatever, and you wonder, "what did I buy into? Who was I supporting?!"
diogenese19348
Karma: 590
Sat, Jun 13I said I ran an adult website, so yeah, I'd say I self reported. Then again you ARE on an adult website, so you're going to have to bear some discussion of the subject.
Vendors disappearing en masse with the administration only pointing to TOS would lead me to believe something important came up that they had to deal with in a way that disrupted both their vendor community and their customer base, I have no better idea than anybody else what caused that, but it's not a decision I feel they made capriciously.
All I was ever saying is I can sympathize with the discussions they must have had and the decisions they feel they had to make.
And I assume you are never going to understand that, and at this point I don't care. Carry on.
Vendors disappearing en masse with the administration only pointing to TOS would lead me to believe something important came up that they had to deal with in a way that disrupted both their vendor community and their customer base, I have no better idea than anybody else what caused that, but it's not a decision I feel they made capriciously.
All I was ever saying is I can sympathize with the discussions they must have had and the decisions they feel they had to make.
And I assume you are never going to understand that, and at this point I don't care. Carry on.
Wolf007
Karma: 255
Sat, Jun 13On the transparency subject i agree.
Knowing why a store was closed, what rules/policy was broken, what actions lead to the closing; could help a lot.
Specially when there a lot of different things that are not related that could be the reason.
Knowing why a store was closed, what rules/policy was broken, what actions lead to the closing; could help a lot.
Specially when there a lot of different things that are not related that could be the reason.
kwerkx
Karma: 8,452
Sat, Jun 13I wonder if it's the whole "baby face" thing. A lot of those vendors had characters with youthful faces and the Internet is mad about a game trailer this might be fallout from that.
B-monster666
Karma: 813
Sat, Jun 13Which game trailer? Are you talking about Dad Simulator AKA Pragmata?
Yeah, creeps who complained about the asset updates to Diana should have their hard drives searched.
Yeah, creeps who complained about the asset updates to Diana should have their hard drives searched.
KingNothing343
Karma: 875
Sat, Jun 13"I wonder if it's the whole "baby face" thing. A lot of those vendors had characters with youthful faces and the Internet is mad about a game trailer this might be fallout from that."
Which I find silly because some real life people have youthful looks and body proportions that can make them pass as a teenager or even a child. Hell my ex when she was 18 and a dwarf could pass as a 14 year old teen. Not everybody looks their age.
Which I find silly because some real life people have youthful looks and body proportions that can make them pass as a teenager or even a child. Hell my ex when she was 18 and a dwarf could pass as a 14 year old teen. Not everybody looks their age.
kwerkx
Karma: 8,452
Sat, Jun 13@B-monster666 No the main protagonist from the new Stellar Blade trailer Warning: violence, gore, and sexualized "baby face".
@KingNonthing343 I hear you; but there is just enough demonstrated outrage for it to be plausible.
@KingNonthing343 I hear you; but there is just enough demonstrated outrage for it to be plausible.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Sat, Jun 13I don't understand the "baby face." She is just pretty, maybe a bit boyish-looking. But whatever.
The good thing is that now I know this is a game, and that it's a character with a ton of weird people crying "baby face."
So, I'm going to sit on my porch with a cup of tea and smile at the moonlight, knowing the hysteria.
The good thing is that now I know this is a game, and that it's a character with a ton of weird people crying "baby face."
So, I'm going to sit on my porch with a cup of tea and smile at the moonlight, knowing the hysteria.
I've got no issue with this place getting cleaned up a bit. If you're skirting the line, sometimes a slap is best.
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MXXMSK
Karma: 4,902
Sun, Jun 14I agree, idk how anyone is seeing this as anything else but a good thing
I just read the thread and everyone agrees: no sexualization of children.
There's a project to create an open-source software called PoseStudio
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/14662/what-features-do-you-want-to-see-in-posestudio-share-your-thoughts
and there's a request for a male and a female mannequin. And if I understand correctly, these mannequins should be gendered.
By combining the positions from the two threads, there won't be child and adolescent morphs for these mannequins.
There's a project to create an open-source software called PoseStudio
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/14662/what-features-do-you-want-to-see-in-posestudio-share-your-thoughts
and there's a request for a male and a female mannequin. And if I understand correctly, these mannequins should be gendered.
By combining the positions from the two threads, there won't be child and adolescent morphs for these mannequins.
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Sorry if I get involved in the problem of children's or teenagers' characters, from the renderhub side, the rules still look gray or the references are uncertain and if possible I ask the renderhub side to clarify the rules about what kind of children or teenagers are more specific, what kind of use and what the limits should be or maybe give an example in the form of a sample image so as not to violate the rules, because everyone's perspective on sexuality or pornography is different if it can be resolved it also provides certainty to vendors who are involved in the children's or teenagers' category to be safer and improved from the category so that it doesn't get mixed up and that makes it problematic, hopefully the renderhub side will be wiser and I hope the solution from the renderhub side will provide a definite answer like what
https://www.renderhub.com/info/mature-content-policy
because it looks gray to me
https://www.renderhub.com/info/mature-content-policy
because it looks gray to me
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Everwild
Karma: 10,266
Sun, Jun 14@BooboonArt -- assuming you followed the links provided in the table, I'm curious. What parts do you consider to be too "gray"?
BooboonArt
Karma: 104
Sun, Jun 14What are the limits of clothing for children or teenagers? Because I see many who wear clothes that are considered closed, they don't look sexual or pornographic, but they are exposed to cleaning.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Tue, Jun 16I think though this is a side effect of the Covid lockdowns.
I'd say the way to draft these guidelines would be to get input from people with children. However, with some common sense, you can reach a consensus on reality as well. If you have to go by schools, sports events, and so on, it's easy to form an opinion on clothing. (Hence why someone people with kids might work better). Also, from around the world, the USA is not the only country on this earth.
I'd say the way to draft these guidelines would be to get input from people with children. However, with some common sense, you can reach a consensus on reality as well. If you have to go by schools, sports events, and so on, it's easy to form an opinion on clothing. (Hence why someone people with kids might work better). Also, from around the world, the USA is not the only country on this earth.
Everwild
Karma: 10,266
Tue, Jun 16@Luxe Muse -- Yeah. RenderHub is, however, beholden to US law, and I expect it's certainly stricter than some other countries. However, this may also be a case of the party in question may not have been removed for kiddie exploitation. Sounds more like RenderHub did a broader, more generalized sweep than just the one reason.
B-monster666
Karma: 813
Wed, Jun 17Not a seller, but I do agree that I find the "inappropriately attired" to be ambiguous. I mean, lots of stuff are pretty black & white, but I've heard some horror stories from vendors as to what may be construed ad 'inappropriately attired'. And that means a whole different ball of wax between a 6 year old and a 16 year old. I have talked with some vendors who said they get complaints if they show too much knee or shoulder...or if they're using stuff that's specifically bundled with child characters from other markets (like the 3DUniverse bundles).
I just have to laugh because any trip to a public park, or beach and you get a whole different perspective of what's acceptable or not. Personally, I'd think that anything you'd see on Amazon, or any clothing catalogue geared to that age-range should be acceptable.
The other very tricky aspect is: i like to see the shape of the base model. It doesn't need to include the MATs in the store image, but when I'm buying a model, it's helpful to know what the full model itself actually looks like. I prefer seeing the gray-clay standard A-pose from various sides to get an idea of what kind of quality I'm purchasing for my money. As a buyer, I've been screwed with purchases by buying something I think looks good, but when I import it, the model just looks...weird. Or flipside, I've avoided some only to find out later when I took a risk that the model was actually half decent. And a model wearing a burlap sack does nothing to help.
I just have to laugh because any trip to a public park, or beach and you get a whole different perspective of what's acceptable or not. Personally, I'd think that anything you'd see on Amazon, or any clothing catalogue geared to that age-range should be acceptable.
The other very tricky aspect is: i like to see the shape of the base model. It doesn't need to include the MATs in the store image, but when I'm buying a model, it's helpful to know what the full model itself actually looks like. I prefer seeing the gray-clay standard A-pose from various sides to get an idea of what kind of quality I'm purchasing for my money. As a buyer, I've been screwed with purchases by buying something I think looks good, but when I import it, the model just looks...weird. Or flipside, I've avoided some only to find out later when I took a risk that the model was actually half decent. And a model wearing a burlap sack does nothing to help.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Wed, Jun 17Precisely, @B-monster666. That is why I get suspicious. For example, I submitted one of my characters to Some-other-site-I-shall-not-say-or-I'd-get=banned there, using exactly a pair of shorts from 3DU and its matching shirt. I was then asked to dress her in Amish-style clothing below the knee. (I’m joking about the Amish, but not about the below-the-knee part.) Long story short, the shorts weren’t any different from the clothing my own girls wear. I have yet to hear anyone say, "You are sexualizing your daughters!"
Reading the way some people here speak, and (I don't mean @Everwild's comments), it is not hard to feel threatened, and I’m sure I’m not alone. It’s just odd, especially when the characters aren’t even being portrayed in a sexual way (I personally haven't seen one, but I haven't seen every character here).
In the modeling industry there are plenty of standards and regulations for young talents (Even in south America). None of them are vague, and that is for real children.
Reading the way some people here speak, and (I don't mean @Everwild's comments), it is not hard to feel threatened, and I’m sure I’m not alone. It’s just odd, especially when the characters aren’t even being portrayed in a sexual way (I personally haven't seen one, but I haven't seen every character here).
In the modeling industry there are plenty of standards and regulations for young talents (Even in south America). None of them are vague, and that is for real children.
3DLoki
Karma: 3,234
Wed, Jun 17I know the site you mean lol I had a very similar situation there some years back, I used one of THEIR OWN "child clothing items" and they reported back that the outfit was inappropriate for a child, we literally "fought" back and forth until they just pulled that outfit from the store and I STILL had to change the outfit.
THAT is the biggest issue I've always had with that site-that-shall-not-be-named, they REFUSE to EVER admit when they are wrong and instead will always result to "doubling down" honestly let it sink in just a bit... THEY had a clothing product, (THEIR OWN BRAND) for kids, marketed for kids, with kids in all the promos, I buy it, I used it, they say "eww that's not appropriate" it's okay for them to sell it, it's okay for us to buy it, but we better not use it.
They went on and on about "this is about protecting kids" and i told them IF that was actually the case..... ban all kid products, that is the only way you can reallllly "protect kids" they scoffed at me and I just finally gave up.
(And yes, I also have had many issues trying to use 3DU kid/teen clothing there, I swore one day I'd just submit kid promos in full burkas just to see what they'd say then lol
THAT is the biggest issue I've always had with that site-that-shall-not-be-named, they REFUSE to EVER admit when they are wrong and instead will always result to "doubling down" honestly let it sink in just a bit... THEY had a clothing product, (THEIR OWN BRAND) for kids, marketed for kids, with kids in all the promos, I buy it, I used it, they say "eww that's not appropriate" it's okay for them to sell it, it's okay for us to buy it, but we better not use it.
They went on and on about "this is about protecting kids" and i told them IF that was actually the case..... ban all kid products, that is the only way you can reallllly "protect kids" they scoffed at me and I just finally gave up.
(And yes, I also have had many issues trying to use 3DU kid/teen clothing there, I swore one day I'd just submit kid promos in full burkas just to see what they'd say then lol
B-monster666
Karma: 813
Thu, Jun 18LOL! It was you I was vaguely referring to, @3DLoki. I remember you complaining about them to me over on Insta under my 3D character account. I just didn't want to call out names.
Considering the importance of the policy and the consequences, maybe it is better to put a link to it in a place where everyone can see it. Many people do not follow the forums. Maybe notifications. Or put a short message with a link to it in the blue announcement bar, the one that pops up on the front page and announces the current contest.
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guy91600
Karma: 18,659
Mon, Jun 15A number of sellers don't participate in contests, so why only announce the current contest?
A private message to all site members would be more effective, that way no one could hide behind a white lie and say they didn't know, that they never read the forums!
A private message to all site members would be more effective, that way no one could hide behind a white lie and say they didn't know, that they never read the forums!
Everwild
Karma: 10,266
Tue, Jun 16The Mature Content Policy is in the footer, therefore on every page. Same with the ToS and Code of Conduct. I'd also expect that vendors have to agree to all these things when they sign up to sell, but I get what Arodia's trying to say.
Ignorance of the law is never a defence.
Most this stuff is just common sense. There's no grey. just right and wrong.
Most this stuff is just common sense. There's no grey. just right and wrong.
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Another 3D art community tearing itself apart over this subject. History repeats itself.
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Bobb
Karma: 1,667
Wed, Jun 17And the hypocritical fanatics of the "Assemblies of god" are gloating in satisfaction.
Aside from the users/developers who absolutely have to dress their child / adolescents models in vinyl and leather, the biggest drawback for me is the lack of child-appropriate poses.
Honestly, guys, I had a pose pack for kids on my hard drive that looked more like a 'Victoria's Secret' catalog than something showing kids playing or posing. For this reason, I started working on my own pose pack about a year ago. However, the project kind of stalled because a) I had other ideas in the meantime, and b) the poses (even as a freebie) would have had limited be used:
Kids are wild. Kids are loud. Kids (up to a certain age in their teens) move clumsily ('ungelenk' or 'schlaksig' in German)
When this is translated in poses, it creates some strange presets that, while perfectly suited to children and adolescents... certainly don't apply to adult models.
Maybe we could start thinking about a pose pack like this as a freebie and a collaborative project?
Honestly, guys, I had a pose pack for kids on my hard drive that looked more like a 'Victoria's Secret' catalog than something showing kids playing or posing. For this reason, I started working on my own pose pack about a year ago. However, the project kind of stalled because a) I had other ideas in the meantime, and b) the poses (even as a freebie) would have had limited be used:
Kids are wild. Kids are loud. Kids (up to a certain age in their teens) move clumsily ('ungelenk' or 'schlaksig' in German)
When this is translated in poses, it creates some strange presets that, while perfectly suited to children and adolescents... certainly don't apply to adult models.
Maybe we could start thinking about a pose pack like this as a freebie and a collaborative project?
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Everwild
Karma: 10,266
Thu, Jun 18^^ This. Thank you, @Pushee-Ri. Even just 5 - 10 base poses would be immensely helpful.
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Thu, Jun 18I agree! And I'll add that, at least in my searches, regular everyday men’s poses are lacking too. Every guy’s pose pack feels like it’s made for the catwalk or a photoshoot.
It feels like I should do something about it. I could make a pose pack, although I find posing boring. I like painting and sculpting more.
It feels like I should do something about it. I could make a pose pack, although I find posing boring. I like painting and sculpting more.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 51,137
Thu, Jun 18@Everwild and @Luxe
I was actually planning to work on other projects... but this topic is too important. Unfortunately, I realized that my preliminary work (which was on another computer) is no longer available. My mistake.
10–12 poses will take me about 5–7 days (poses for kids are a bit more complicated if you want to capture that awkwardness). I’d start with GF8 (which can then also be used for GM8), since the general pose can be converted to G9 (including fine-tuning and modification).
Since I'm more into action, the poses will probably be a little wilder and more cheeky – kind of like my 'InAzione' or 'FreshFruits' projects. But I'll try to do a few more 'normal' poses as well.
I've already gathered a few photo templates. Let's see how this idea turns out
I was actually planning to work on other projects... but this topic is too important. Unfortunately, I realized that my preliminary work (which was on another computer) is no longer available. My mistake.
10–12 poses will take me about 5–7 days (poses for kids are a bit more complicated if you want to capture that awkwardness). I’d start with GF8 (which can then also be used for GM8), since the general pose can be converted to G9 (including fine-tuning and modification).
Since I'm more into action, the poses will probably be a little wilder and more cheeky – kind of like my 'InAzione' or 'FreshFruits' projects. But I'll try to do a few more 'normal' poses as well.
I've already gathered a few photo templates. Let's see how this idea turns out
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Thu, Jun 18Hi, hi, hi!
I'm starting to work on a mixed pack. Let's see how well I fair
I'm starting to work on a mixed pack. Let's see how well I fair
Everwild
Karma: 10,266
Thu, Jun 18@Pushee-Ri -- For clarification, I didn't mean for you to have to do this project specifically. Sorry. I just wanted to echo your sentiment and the need for kid-centric poses. I also don't think anyone should need to provide them free; I'd certainly pay for this product!
Also, @Luxe -- already like the pose.
I'm happy to help any way I can, but I dunno the first thing about making products.
Also, @Luxe -- already like the pose.
I'm happy to help any way I can, but I dunno the first thing about making products.
Pushee-Ri
Karma: 51,137
Thu, Jun 18@Everwild
Don't panic, you didn't say anything wrong
Yesterday, (in a burst of inspiration), I was all about the group work thing... until it dawned on me this morning that I'm a grouch, a misanthrope, and an oddball, and that's why I prefer to work alone
Nevertheless, (if I go through with the project and stick with it) any help is welcome. For example, it would be a big relief not to have to worry about the promotional images (that can really take up a lot of time sometimes).
By the way, Luxe has started a separate thread on this topic. Maybe we can continue the discussion there (assuming Luxe doesn't mind
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/14714/why-not-more-family-friendly-poses
Don't panic, you didn't say anything wrong
Yesterday, (in a burst of inspiration), I was all about the group work thing... until it dawned on me this morning that I'm a grouch, a misanthrope, and an oddball, and that's why I prefer to work alone
Nevertheless, (if I go through with the project and stick with it) any help is welcome. For example, it would be a big relief not to have to worry about the promotional images (that can really take up a lot of time sometimes).
By the way, Luxe has started a separate thread on this topic. Maybe we can continue the discussion there (assuming Luxe doesn't mind
https://www.renderhub.com/forum/14714/why-not-more-family-friendly-poses
Well, I wasn't very aware of all this, since I haven't been around here much. But I was surprised by a HumanXYStudio pack of girls to pre-teens... and making a pack like that, well, I don't know, it's a bit risky. And many of your textures weren't from people older than 18 or 20 at most, I mean, living on the edge of the abyss.
REPLY
! REPORT
Luxe Muse
Karma: 7,766
Thu, Jun 18Good question. I make my textures by hand, no references, in substance. They might not be as realistic as the ones made with human models, but I try my best.
So, it's unnatural for figures to be short. Or thin. Or have faces that might be considered "youthful".
Wonderful.
Now presenting a cavalcade of the most exaggerated hip to waist ratios imaginable - as if they weren't already the preponderance of the market.
I've yet to check to see if I can still download previous purchases by whatever vendors have transgressed arbitrary moral boundaries, as I have a rather extensive library here and I was on vacation when I noticed this little Armageddon and the library functionality isn't exactly elegant or swift to wade through even on my PC, much less my phone. Even HX rebranded, and I find myself wondering what might happen with items I've gotten from them for instance.
Wonderful.
Now presenting a cavalcade of the most exaggerated hip to waist ratios imaginable - as if they weren't already the preponderance of the market.
I've yet to check to see if I can still download previous purchases by whatever vendors have transgressed arbitrary moral boundaries, as I have a rather extensive library here and I was on vacation when I noticed this little Armageddon and the library functionality isn't exactly elegant or swift to wade through even on my PC, much less my phone. Even HX rebranded, and I find myself wondering what might happen with items I've gotten from them for instance.
REPLY
! REPORT
Gln46
Karma: 444
Sat, Jun 20All my purchases/downloads are still available from the vendors who's stores or selected products were removed. I'm pretty certain RHub Admin stated that customer purchases/downloads would remain.